Rikodou Naruto's SM?

[Gerkak]

yes the databook is canon as an official work of the series. it containing hyperbole has nothing to do with its canonicity.

@bold-both are true. it seems that you have a problem applying logic. the databook states that six paths sage mode is a gift and shikamaru hiden states that the biju are responsible for this power.
you should be asking yourself how these 2 descriptions can be related instead of saying "hurr durr contradiction" so you can fabricate your own canon.

Now you want to say it has hyperboles why don't you accept it then since the whole book is canon the "hyperboles" must be canon as well

Maybe you should take your own advice and try to explain yo yourself how a gift from the sage to naruto can be granted by the bijuu.

I fabricated nothing, you are the one who is quoting only one source, a source that supports only what you want to believe.

Accusing me of fabrications when your own points don't even agree with one another look again and see how your points don't connect.

 

[lndra]

I wouldn't have asked this if it was that simple.

Firstly, the confusion is whether Naruto retains his own chakra or not, or is it replaced by Rikodou chakra. Naruto retaining his former chakra solves the problem however. Secondly, you're wrong about RSM. Naruto doesn't combine Senjutsu with Rikodou chakra, he already has the Rikodou Senjutsu chakra by default, which he just access and enters RSM.

I. Obviously not. Rikudou chakra only boosted his person. His chakra? Obviously, but it didn't turn his direct base of chakra into Rikudou chakra.

II. I don't think that's how it works. From my POV, Naruto has half of Hagoromo's Rikudou chakra. This specific chakra, when it gathers Senjutsu, gives birth to RSM.

 

[TheSages456]

Now you want to say it has hyperboles why don't you accept it then since the whole book is canon the "hyperboles" must be canon as well

this doesnt make any sense. why would hyperbole discard the databooks status as an official work of the series? i cant really help you if you cant tell hyperbole from a descriptive statement.

Maybe you should take your own advice and try to explain yo yourself how a gift from the sage can be granted by the bijuu.

Accusing me of fabrications when your own points don't even agree with one another look again and see how your points don't connect.

2 official works link my points. you have nothing.

hagoromo is the reason that the biju manifested in this fashion.

Spoiler

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without him, naruto would have never possessed six paths sage mode, since the biju would never have manifested in physical form.

 

[Gerkak]

this doesnt make any sense. why the hyperbole discard the databooks status as an official work of the series. i cant really help you if you cant tell hyperbole from a descriptive statement.

Good so you can tell when things don't make sense can you.

2 official works link my points. you have nothing.

hagoromo is the reason that the biju manifested in this fashion.

Spoiler

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without him, naruto would have never possessed six paths sage mode, since the biju would never have manifested in physical form.

I have nothing? Hardly. It was a gift from the sage no bijuu chakra mentioned(DB source:"Heading: A gift from the ancestor of Shinobi."

hogoromo had rikudo senjutsu before he became a jinchuriki(

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).

Yes I also have two sources, you were saying? And before you say hogoromo directly inherited kaguya's chakra or something of that nature, hogoromo directly gave his power to

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so the point is moot. Hogoromo gave his power away he didn't say he gave away bijuu chakra.

Naruto's bijuu chakra boost his RSM but they are not the source of the power, hogoromo's rikudo senjutsu chakra is.

 

[Warlocks]

It's simply that
Sasuke has Six Paths Yin Power+Rinnegan
Naruto has Six Paths Yang Power+Six Paths Senjutsu mode

 

[oxtopus]

This might clarify things

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[TheSages456]

I have nothing? Hardly. It was a gift from the sage no bijuu chakra mentioned(DB source:"Heading: A gift from the ancestor of Shinobi."

biju chakra was mentioned by shikamaru hiden, which means that these 2 descriptions intertwine. six paths sage mode is a gift from hagoromo. the source of this mode is the biju.

hogoromo had rikudo senjutsu before he became a jinchuriki(

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).

hagoromo naturally possesses the six paths chakra. naruto does not. becoming a juubi jin grants the same power that hagoromo possesses.

Spoiler

Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal (六道十尾柩印, Rikudō Jūbi Kyūin), Kekkei Genkai Ninjutsu used by Obito and Madara. Taking the ten bodies of the tailed beasts into oneself, becoming a jinchuriki and gaining their power. It goes on to say that it's difficult to control the tailed beasts and that this can cause the user to have a psychological collapse, and needs to either have a suitably strong force of will, either inherently or by finding one, in order to gain control. If they do that, they'll obtain the terrifying/astounding power of a "god that shapes the land."

The top caption says that when it seemed that Madara was making Obito use Rinne Rebirth, Obito was actually weaving the sings for the Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal. The middle caption says that the caster condenses and absorbs the ten tailed beasts into himself, awakening ("blossoming") their original power (本来の力, primal power, essential power).

The bottom left caption says, "To acquire the power of the ten tailed beasts is the same as possessing the power of the Sage of Six Paths, so it is accompanied by the same Truthseeker Orbs.

six paths sage mode(comes from the 9 biju) grants the same power as a juubi jinchuriki.

Spoiler

"The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now."

Yes I also have two sources, you were saying? And before you say hogoromo directly inherited kaguya's chakra or something of that nature, hogoromo directly gave his power to

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so the point is moot. Hogoromo gave his power away he didn't say he gave away bijuu chakra.

the chakra that he is talking about is the yin and yang seals which is irrelevant to the discussion.

i never said that hagoromo gave away biju chakra. i said that he is the reason that the biju manifested inside naruto, which fits the description of the "gift" given by hagoromo, which directly agrees with shikamaru hidens explanation on narutos six paths sage mode coming from him being a human pillar for the power of all the biju.

Naruto's bijuu chakra boost his RSM but they are not the source of the power, hogoromo's rikudo senjutsu chakra is.

am i supposed to take this seriously? its blatantly stated that the source of the power is the biju.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

whats wrong with you? its blatantly stated that naruto is a human pillar for the juubis power just like obito was since he possesses the chakra of all of the biju.
you're blatantly denying official statements for no reason.

Obito had RSM because he had the Juubi as a whole. Simply having Juubi's chakra (which Naruto had) doesn't grant RSM. Otherwise, by your logic, Sasuke also obtained RSM at VOTE by absorbing the bijuus chakra.

I wodnt put it past Sasuke. Obito and Obito made a massive fire technique and Sasuke was bound to be next in line for legendary uchiha power. It's in his blood really. He was even next in line for head of the clan behind Itachi. Basically the prince of all Uchiha lol.

As for Naruto the last we only we have the novel which goes in depth. Nothing more so I cant say. If it was a psuedo form like the novel says that would explain the flight. Or just another example of Naruto's skill by using the it outside of RSM.

It's really hard to believe Sasuke is really that strong without Rikodou chakra. Really hard to believe and accept. Simply demolishing a gigantic meteor with Chidori that also with his own chakra...

I couldn't care less about what the novel says.

I. Obviously not. Rikudou chakra only boosted his person. His chakra? Obviously, but it didn't turn his direct base of chakra into Rikudou chakra.

II. I don't think that's how it works. From my POV, Naruto has half of Hagoromo's Rikudou chakra. This specific chakra, when it gathers Senjutsu, gives birth to RSM.

Any explanation on how Rikodou's chakra will separately fit in Naruto's chakra compartment. This isn't going to work the same way KCM did.

Point 1 is reasonable, but it's better to talk with evidences and explanation as to how Rikodou chakra was an addition rather than an empowerment.

Also, your POV is wrong. Naruto received the Six Paths Sage chakra from Hagoromo already kneaded with Senjutsu. That's why he doesn't gather NE in RSM like he does in SM.

 

[Chaosmark101]

Can anyone explain how Rikodou Naruto can use both SM and RSM despite only having Rikodou Senjutsu chakra? His possession of Rikodou Senjutsu chakra explains how he uses RSM (although RSM is still visually confusing since it looks like SM+BM without pigmentation even though there is no involvement of BM), but his usage of SM as an Adult is beyond me totally. And how does he attain them individually anyway? And how would his SM possibly compare to his RSM?

This is pretty easy first & first most we need to fix your understanding of the chakra Naruto possesses. @Underline, Naruto post chapter 700 has his own chakra, the kyuubi's chakra, & his rikudo chakra. Even other bijuu's if he feels like asking them.

Anyways to enter SM Naruto must gather

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. Please note when Naruto is in base he can choose to enter

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using only

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, not Kurama's or Rikudo's. When he uses Rikudo's he enters

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. Also note, when Naruto enters RSM he no longer needs to gather NE to enter the state. Only his Rikudo chakra. Which is how he went from Base immediately into RSM.

^ I think that covered everything but the last question. "How does SM compare?" Well SM is still Naruto's weakest transformation.
Obviously stronger than base, but still inferior to KCM, BM, BSM, & RSM. The need for the others seems to be nonexistent now that Naruto can enter RSM on the fly.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

This is pretty easy first & first most we need to fix your understanding of the chakra Naruto possesses. @Underline, Naruto post chapter 700 has his own chakra, the kyuubi's chakra, & his rikudo chakra. Even other bijuu's if he feels like asking them.

Anyways to enter SM Naruto must gather

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. Please note when Naruto is in base he can choose to enter

You must be registered for see links

using only

You must be registered for see links

, not Kurama's or Rikudo's. When he uses Rikudo's he enters

You must be registered for see links

. Also note, when Naruto enters RSM he no longer needs to gather NE to enter the state. Only his Rikudo chakra. Which is how he went from Base immediately into RSM.

^ I think that covered everything but the last question. "How does SM compare?" Well SM is still Naruto's weakest transformation.
Obviously stronger than base, but still inferior to KCM, BM, BSM, & RSM. The need for the others seems to be nonexistent now that Naruto can enter RSM on the fly.

Overall nice reply.

@bold All I need is the proof of this part. It's great that you included all the details and explanation, but I was already aware of the subsequent details like how he'd achieve those respective modes if he has all chakras individually (except the condition of Naruto only possessing Rikodou chakra) and how strong they could probably be. The only thing I was confused about was the chakras that he had, which you and some others cleared up but for which I need proof.

 

[Chaosmark101]

Overall nice reply.

@bold All I need is the proof of this part. It's great that you included all the details and explanation, but I was already aware of the subsequent details like how he'd achieve those respective modes if he has all chakras individually (except the condition of Naruto only possessing Rikodou chakra) and how strong they could probably be. The only thing I was confused about was the chakras that he had, which you and some others cleared up but for which I need proof.

Proof that Naruto possesses 3 different chakra's?

 

[The Demon Hawk]

Proof that Naruto possesses 3 different chakra's?

Yes, and explanation as well, if possible.

 

[Chaosmark101]

Yes, and explanation as well, if possible.

First of all I'd like to establish that everyone in NV has chakra as per the sage. Not all make use of it, but they have it.

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you can what a well rested Ninja (in this case Naruto has) when he's eaten & slept. A ton of stamina ready to be converted into chakra for

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.

Okay so that ^ should establish that Naruto has his own chakra. Onto the Kyuubi. We know that Naruto is the Jinchuriki of Kurama post

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. It should have been fairly obvious that Naruto has always had two different chakra's residing in him. But here it is stated

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. As a PJ we know Naruto has access to the kyuubi's chakra whenever he wants. Also I believe we know what happens when the kyuubi get's angry or his chakra starts leaking. [

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],[

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].

Kyuubi's done I believe, onto Rikudo's. Now we know that Both Naruto & Sasuke both gained

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right?.

All you really need to know here is that neither lost their chakra from the sage, otherwise Sasuke's Rinnegan & Naruto's RSM would have been absent in Gaiden & Boruto. Hope this helped.

 

[shelke]

He cannot use two Sage Modes at the same time. The RSM is activated through Sage's Senjutsu chakra and it's passive. He has to call on it. The Frog SM on the other hand is a mode that he learned. He calls on NE and does the balancing and enters the mode. He knows it, hence, I cannot see why it should be discarded.

RSM is also automatic, as in, it doesn't need to be learned. The Senjutsu itself grants the automatic 'Universal Grasp of All Things' and the perks of Sage's Sage Mode. Which is why Obito and Madara were using the Sage Mode without having ever learned it. I do understand your problem with this as it really doesn't make any sense for him to use Frong SM. But, he probably didn't want to use so much power. Sasuke didn't either.

biju chakra was mentioned by Shikamaru hidden, which means that these 2 descriptions intertwine. six paths sage mode is a gift from hagoromo. the source of this mode is the biju.

hagoromo naturally possesses the six paths chakra. naruto does not. becoming a juubi jin grants the same power that hagoromo possesses.

Spoiler

Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal (六道十尾柩印, Rikudō Jūbi Kyūin), Kekkei Genkai Ninjutsu used by Obito and Madara. Taking the ten bodies of the tailed beasts into oneself, becoming a jinchuriki and gaining their power. It goes on to say that it's difficult to control the tailed beasts and that this can cause the user to have a psychological collapse, and needs to either have a suitably strong force of will, either inherently or by finding one, in order to gain control. If they do that, they'll obtain the terrifying/astounding power of a "god that shapes the land."

The top caption says that when it seemed that Madara was making Obito use Rinne Rebirth, Obito was actually weaving the sings for the Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal. The middle caption says that the caster condenses and absorbs the ten tailed beasts into himself, awakening ("blossoming") their original power (本来の力, primal power, essential power).

The bottom left caption says, "To acquire the power of the ten tailed beasts is the same as possessing the power of the Sage of Six Paths, so it is accompanied by the same Truthseeker Orbs.

six paths sage mode(comes from the 9 biju) grants the same power as a juubi jinchuriki.

Spoiler

"The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now."

the chakra that he is talking about is the yin and yang seals which is irrelevant to the discussion.

i never said that hagoromo gave away biju chakra. i said that he is the reason that the biju manifested inside naruto, which fits the description of the "gift" given by hagoromo, which directly agrees with shikamaru hidens explanation on narutos six paths sage mode coming from him being a human pillar for the power of all the biju.

am i supposed to take this seriously? its blatantly stated that the source of the power is the biju.

Excellent Reply. It covers the TSBs requiring the Bijuu chakra quite effectively as well. Going for this, he should not be able to use RSM without having ALL Bijuus or their chakra. And it actually FITS, as Madara and Obito acquired RSM via Juubi or all the Bijuus.

The Databook basically confirms it now.

 

[Jokule67]

Yes, and explanation as well, if possible.

He has Six Paths Chakra, His normal chakra,Kyuubi Chakra, and Nature Chakra

Proof is the fact that he used normal Frog SM. Had his chakra been permanatley Six Paths he would never have the orange markings around his eyes. Hope this is enough.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

He cannot use two Sage Modes at the same time. The RSM is activated through Sage's Senjutsu chakra and it's passive. He has to call on it. The Frog SM on the other hand is a mode that he learned. He calls on NE and does the balancing and enters the mode. He knows it, hence, I cannot see why it should be discarded.

RSM is also automatic, as in, it doesn't need to be learned. The Senjutsu itself grants the automatic 'Universal Grasp of All Things' and the perks of Sage's Sage Mode. Which is why Obito and Madara were using the Sage Mode without having ever learned it. I do understand your problem with this as it really doesn't make any sense for him to use Frong SM. But, he probably didn't want to use so much power. Sasuke didn't either.



Excellent Reply. It covers the TSBs requiring the Bijuu chakra quite effectively as well. Going for this, he should not be able to use RSM without having ALL Bijuus or their chakra. And it actually FITS, as Madara and Obito acquired RSM via Juubi or all the Bijuus.

The Databook basically confirms it now.

bro...stop listening to fanfic...the databook doesnt say shit about naruto using six paths sage mode because of the tailed beasts...
also truth seeking balls do not require tailed beast chakra...if they did then HAMURA and TONERI wouldnt have used them...
learn to think for your damn self...or at least attempt to do research on your own...instead of fanficing to get by

 

[lndra]

Excellent Reply. It covers the TSBs requiring the Bijuu chakra quite effectively as well. Going for this, he should not be able to use RSM without having ALL Bijuus or their chakra. And it actually FITS, as Madara and Obito acquired RSM via Juubi or all the Bijuus.

The Databook basically confirms it now.

Well since you like the DataBook

Truth Seeking Balls:

Truthseeker Orbs is listed as just a ninjutsu (not kekkei mora), used by Madara, Obito, and Naruto. It says that when an individual manifests (literally "blossoms" 開花) Six Paths Senjutsu, black orbs comprising the power of all five elements and yin-yang appear, forming a circle that floats behind them. They can manipulate each orb independantly. Each orb is about the size of a fist and hides within enough power to completely oblitrate a forest. With the power of Creation of All Things, put simply, the shape of the black orbs can be freely altered, and the many natures comprising them can be combined to manifest a variety of effects. It is a power that easily exceeds both kekkei genkai and kekkei tota.

Even Hamura had the TSB which backed up this argument from any foul-play.

Spoiler

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Lastly, RSM is created through Rikudou chakra. Which he received from the already Juubi-less Hagoromo. I'm not sure why you are listening to something the guy pulled from a novel, among all things, but the Databook implies common sense for the RSM form. That it's just a gift granted from Hagoromo.

Source:

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[TheSages456]

Well since you like the DataBook

Truth Seeking Balls:



Even Hamura had the TSB which backed up this argument from any foul-play.

Spoiler

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whats your point? hamura naturally possesses the six paths chakra and by extension, the six paths sage chakra.

hagoromo possesses this power as well. becoming a juubi jin grants you the same power that hagoromo possesses(six paths senjutsu) as stated by the databook(you ignore this yet keep going on about "hagoromos gift").

having all 9 biju is the same as being a juubi jin as stated.

hagoromos power=six paths senjutsu
juubi jins power=six paths senjutsu
power of all 9 biju=six paths senjutsu

Lastly, RSM is created through Rikudou chakra.

yes, naruto can enter six paths sage mode because of the six paths sage power that comes with drawing on the power of all the biju.

Which he received from the already Juubi-less Hagoromo.

what does the yang seal have to do with anything?

I'm not sure why you are listening to something the guy pulled from a novel, among all things, but the Databook implies common sense for the RSM form. That it's just a gift granted from Hagoromo.

Source:

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are you asking why would i use every possible official source to come to the correct conclusion instead of cherrypicking facts which would lead to the opposite?

 

[shelke]

bro...stop listening to fanfic...the databook doesn't say shit about naruto using six paths sage mode because of the tailed beasts...
also truth seeking balls do not require tailed beast chakra...if they did then HAMURA and TONERI wouldn't have used them...
learn to think for your damn self...or at least attempt to do research on your own...instead of fanficing to get by

You are probably new here, as I have posted this comment myself plenty of times.

Well since you like the DataBook

Truth Seeking Balls:

Even Hamura had the TSB which backed up this argument from any foul-play.

Spoiler

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Lastly, RSM is created through Rikudou chakra. Which he received from the already Juubi-less Hagoromo. I'm not sure why you are listening to something the guy pulled from a novel, among all things, but the Databook implies common sense for the RSM form. That it's just a gift granted from Hagoromo.

Source:

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This argument of yours never made sense to me. Hamura (and Hagoromo) is a direct descendent of the Bijuu chakra entity. What does that have anything to do with Naruto? Your analogy makes ZERO sense, as you cannot compare Naruto to the direct offspring of an entity that is nothing more than an aggregate of Bijuu chakra.

Right, because Naruto didn't already have chunks of ALL Bijuu chakra within him? Combine that gift with Bijuu chakra and what does that result in? Again, makes no sense to me as to why you are so adamant on completely disregarding an explicit statement that a Jubi-Jin power (or drawing the power of all Bijuus) results in Sage of the Six paths Senjutsu? You know, like Madara, like Obito? Which gift did they receive? Heck even TSBs use the same Bijuu chakra statement under the Six Paths Sage Mode Heading:

The bottom left caption says, "To acquire the power of the ten tailed beasts is the same as possessing the power of the Sage of Six Paths, so it is accompanied by the same Truthseeker Orbs.

But, feel free to ignore everything and make some bizarre connections to Hamura; a direct descendant of Bijuu-chakra-housing entity.

 

[lndra]

whats your point? hamura naturally possesses the six paths chakra and by extension, the six paths sage chakra.

hagoromo possesses this power as well. becoming a juubi jin grants you the same power that hagoromo possesses(six paths senjutsu) as stated by the databook(you ignore this yet keep going on about "hagoromos gift").

having all 9 biju is the same as being a juubi jin as stated.

hagoromos power=six paths senjutsu
juubi jins power=six paths senjutsu
power of all 9 biju=six paths senjutsu

The hell? Kaguya eating the Fruit gave her these abilities, which in turn she later birthed two sons. I couldn't care less what their chakra originates from, the fact that the DB states it's Six Path Senjutsu that unlocks them says all there needs to be said.

yes, naruto can enter six paths sage mode because of the six paths sage power that comes with drawing on the power of his Rikudou opwer

Fixed.

what does the yang seal have to do with anything?

Who mentioned the yang seal?

are you asking why would i use every possible official source to come to the correct conclusion instead of cherrypicking facts which would lead to the opposite?

I wasn't even talking to you, much less asking why you would ignore the facts without presenting fan fiction.

This argument of yours never made sense to me. Hamura (and Hagoromo) is a direct descendent of the Bijuu chakra entity. What does that have anything to do with Naruto? Your analogy makes ZERO sense, as you cannot compare Naruto to the direct offspring of an entity that is nothing more than an aggregate of Bijuu chakra.

Kaguya didn't even become the Juubi until after. She only consumed the chakra fruit -- This doesn't matter though. The fact is, Senjutsu from the Six Paths is what unlocks TSB. Which is something both Hagoromo and Hamura received from their mother.

Naruto also received this Senjutsu from Hagoromo, but alas your implying that he needs to use Bijuu chakra to unlock the Senjutsu?

Right, because Naruto didn't already have chunks of ALL Bijuu chakra within him? Combine that gift with Bijuu chakra and what does that result in? Again, makes no sense to me as to why you are so adamant on completely disregarding an explicit statement that a Jubi-Jin power (or drawing the power of all Bijuus) results in Sage of the Six paths Senjutsu? You know, like Madara, like Obito? Which gift did they receive? Heck even TSBs use the same Bijuu chakra statement under the Six Paths Sage Mode Heading:

You know how Naruto utilizes Bijuu chakra, right?

Spoiler

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Unless your implying he can use Bijuu chakra like he utilizes Kurama chakra :lol

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>Comparing Madara and Obito to RSM Naruto when their powers originated from different sources

>Saying Naruto needs Bijuu chakra to form RSM yet neglects the fact that Naruto received half of Rikudou's power from Hagoromo already

>Neglects how Naruto even receives Bijuu chakra outside of Kurama, much less how it's utilized.

Yeah.