Kakuzu vs Onoki

[ToshiZO]

Hypocrites getting bagged lol.

 

[Draegod]

What is it that you agree with KG65?

You agree Hiruzen elements are superior then and larger scale base on?
You agree that there is something Hiruzen has in his arsenals that enable his victory, that Kakuzu doesnt have? Which is?

I've been saying edo hiruzen is weaker then alive version for the longest. So yes alive shits on kuzu

 

[EZQ]

I've been saying edo hiruzen is weaker then alive version for the longest. So yes alive shits on kuzu

1- The difference is not enough to say he "shits". (Of course, if you think he shits with his edo form then he still shits while alive)

2- Hiruzen was stronger while alive but his stamina was poor and he was in pain for using Enma staff, while edo hiruzen didn't show any of this

Being edo has its advantages besides regeneration, if we're talking about old/sick people

 

[Lord Tywin]

Edo Hiruzen shits on Kakuzu. EJB already held an L when I debated him.

 

[KidGamer65]

Then the burden of proof is on you to prove his elements is far above Kakuzu's.

How the hell is Hiruzen's attacks bigger? By what scaling are you using?

Hiruzen element stream combine was the size of mini-SS. The mini-SS is Buijuu Size.

Kakuzu single element have the length of trees as tall as Buijuu's. The width cover much more range inbetween the trees. It easily proves the stream can engulf a Buijuu size.

So lets not make stuff up.




Addressed scale.



Because I dont see any other arsenal that enables him to beat Onoki? So share with me?

Dude. What in the world? Mini SS is much larger than the conventional Bijuu. Half of the elemental stream matches SS in length let alone all of it, and that's every single one of Hiruzen's elemental Ninjutsu. The only thing you can do is say "single element" because the rest of Kakuzu's jutsu are pathetic in scale compared to Hiruzen and you and I both know that there is no way you can dance around this one.

-Raition dwarfs Gian.
-Suition stream dwarfs whatever you gave him for this thread, if you did.
-Doton isn't even comparable since Domu isn't offensive.
-Katon stream dwarfs Zukkoku.

So yes, I can agree that Atsugai in terms of overall AoE is larger than any of Hiruzen's Ninjutsu, but the length is inferior, which is what matters when it comes to stopping Onoki from using Jinton.

-Hiruzen has clones, which help in nearly every situation let alone this one.
-Hiruzen has Shadow Shuriken Spam, Fuhma variant too. Which can help as long as they aren't too far away.
-Hiruzen has Enma.

Stop comparing Kakuzu to Hiruzen. Hiruzen is far superior. As for this match up, Onoki bones him.

 

[Zexion~]

I really don't understand why KG is stating that AoE is different than its length, its a pretty long attack combine it with the fuuton heart being the quickest heart in the air and Kakuzu can pressure Onoki into an L, Jinton probably shits though.

Although if he has to be high up to avoid Fuuton than Jinton takes that much longer.

 

[Draegod]

1- The difference is not enough to say he "shits". (Of course, if you think he shits with his edo form then he still shits while alive)

2- Hiruzen was stronger while alive but his stamina was poor and he was in pain for using Enma staff, while edo hiruzen didn't show any of this

Being edo has its advantages besides regeneration, if we're talking about old/sick people

Lol incorrect! Hiruzen was rusty at first when holding enma then soon after parried with oru like it was a sword. He also held RDS for a long time with a sword in his back no diff. No problems with stamina or chakra based on manga facts, it is myth that this site didn't research on.

 

[KidGamer65]

I really don't understand why KG is stating that AoE is different than its length, its a pretty long attack combine it with the fuuton heart being the quickest heart in the air and Kakuzu can pressure Onoki into an L, Jinton probably shits though.

Although if he has to be high up to avoid Fuuton than Jinton takes that much longer.

I'm stating that AoE is different from length because that is a fact. :lol AoE=Total area effected. Length=One dimension that doesn't take length or depth into account. The rest is irrelevant.

 

[Zexion~]

I'm stating that AoE is different from length because that is a fact. :lol AoE=Total area effected. Length=One dimension that doesn't take length or depth into account. The rest is irrelevant.

It clearly does take length into account though, I see what you're trying to say its just weird how you try and point them out as two ENTIRELY different things.

Its leangth is also pretty long, and may be competable with Hiruzens. If the heart used it facing upwards into the air it would extend pretty damn quickly.

 

[KidGamer65]

It clearly does take length into account though, I see what you're trying to say its just weird how you try and point them out as two ENTIRELY different things.

Its leangth is also pretty long, and may be competable with Hiruzens. If the heart used it facing upwards into the air it would extend pretty damn quickly.

Because length is the only factor when it comes to reaching Onoki's position. Thus all other forms of size are obviously irrelevant.

And no, it's not comparable with Hiruzen's at all and the panel its used on clearly shows that. Firing it upwards won't magically make it longer than it normally is.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I've been saying edo hiruzen is weaker then alive version for the longest. So yes alive shits on kuzu

That didnt answer my question.

Edo Hiruzen shits on Kakuzu. EJB already held an L when I debated him.

Link?

Dude. What in the world? Mini SS is much larger than the conventional Bijuu. Half of the elemental stream matches SS in length let alone all of it, and that's every single one of Hiruzen's elemental Ninjutsu. The only thing you can do is say "single element" because the rest of Kakuzu's jutsu are pathetic in scale compared to Hiruzen and you and I both know that there is no way you can dance around this one.

@Bold nope. Base on their Height and size compare to Shinju's root. They rival each other. [

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Raiton and Doton arent scaling jutsu but is it relevant to how much power it packs? Unless you have evidence that Hiruzen Raiton is superior to Kakashi Raikiri then you have a point. If you have evidence that Doton capacity can be as hard as Domu then you have a point.

-Raition dwarfs Gian.
-Suition stream dwarfs whatever you gave him for this thread, if you did.
-Doton isn't even comparable since Domu isn't offensive.
-Katon stream dwarfs Zukkoku.

- Ill wait for evidence that it makes it superior.
- Based on your scaling for SS being way bigger then Buijuus?
- Addressed
- Same point as Suiton.

So yes, I can agree that Atsugai in terms of overall AoE is larger than any of Hiruzen's Ninjutsu, but the length is inferior, which is what matters when it comes to stopping Onoki from using Jinton.

@Bold So does Zukkoku but Im waiting till you see the scale comparison of SS and Buijuu.

-Hiruzen has clones, which help in nearly every situation let alone this one.

-Hiruzen has Shadow Shuriken Spam, Fuhma variant too. Which can help as long as they aren't too far away.

-Hiruzen has Enma.

Same point I said to Apex Hiruzen has more in his arsenal. Yet Hiruzen can just work with his elemental stream+Clones to defeat Onoki. So I fail to see how Mask pressures Onoki just as much, doesnt work. They/He have better aerial then Hiruzen for this match up. Let alone rivaling scale in element streams.

Stop comparing Kakuzu to Hiruzen. Hiruzen is far superior. As for this match up, Onoki bones him.

Addressed.

 

[Zexion~]

Because length is the only factor when it comes to reaching Onoki's position. Thus all other forms of size are obviously irrelevant.

And no, it's not comparable with Hiruzen's at all and the panel its used on clearly shows that. Firing it upwards won't magically make it longer than it normally is.

Its length was pretty damn large :lol

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and honestly that might have just been the width as it seems like it was fired to the right of Kakuzu, which we never get to see fully.

 

[KidGamer65]

@Bold nope. Base on their Height and size compare to Shinju's root. They rival each other. [

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Then you are going to have to show that those are the same size root, because while the Bijuu rival the root behind them in height, the root that Sasuke's enhanced Susanoo cut dwarfed it.

The humans compared the to the statue and then humans compared to Bijuu or objects that rival Bijuu in size is enough to put this argument to rest.

Raiton and Doton arent scaling jutsu but is it relevant to how much power it packs? Unless you have evidence that Hiruzen Raiton is superior to Kakashi Raikiri then you have a point. If you have evidence that Doton capacity can be as hard as Domu then you have a point.

- Ill wait for evidence that it makes it superior.

Please don't try and deviate the argument into something completely irrelevant. The power of the jutsu is irrelevant. The scale of the jutsu is what's being discussed here as the scale is what's going to let him hit Onoki.

- Based on your scaling for SS being way bigger then Buijuus?

No, based on Kakuzu's Suiton not even having any feats. :lol

- Same point as Suiton.

Doesn't even make sense.

@Bold So does Zukkoku but Im waiting till you see the scale comparison of SS and Buijuu.

No, it doesn't. Zukkoku has never shown to come close to Atsugai in size so don't even bother.

Same point I said to Apex Hiruzen has more in his arsenal. Yet Hiruzen can just work with his elemental stream+Clones to defeat Onoki. So I fail to see how Mask pressures Onoki just as much. They/He have better aerial then Hiruzen for this match up. Let alone rivaling scale in element streams.

-Masks can't fly or fight in air, first of all. Not sure how you people reached that conclusion from seeing two of them in mid air for a single panel.
-Only Atsugai matches Hiruzen's elements in scale.
-

 

[Zexion~]

Then you are going to have to show that those are the same size root, because while the Bijuu rival the root behind them in height, the root that Sasuke's enhanced Susanoo cut dwarfed it.

The humans compared the to the statue and then humans compared to Bijuu or objects that rival Bijuu in size is enough to put this argument to rest.






Please don't try and deviate the argument into something completely irrelevant. The power of the jutsu is irrelevant. The scale of the jutsu is what's being discussed here as the scale is what's going to let him hit Onoki.



No, based on Kakuzu's Suiton not even having any feats. :lol




Doesn't even make sense.





No, it doesn't. Zukkoku has never shown to come close to Atsugai in size so don't even bother.





-Masks can't fly or fight in air, first of all. Not sure how you people reached that conclusion from seeing two of them in mid air for a single panel.
-Only Atsugai matches Hiruzen's elements in scale.
-

Fuuton fired jutsu mid-air ------> other hearts showed the ability to sustain air time for a decent amount of time.

Combine the two together and you can come up with the conclusion that they can fight in the air :lol

 

[KidGamer65]

Fuuton fired jutsu mid-air ------> other hearts showed the ability to sustain air time for a decent amount of time.

Combine the two together and you can come up with the conclusion that they can fight in the air :lol

Being able to launch an attack in air obviously doesn't equate to being able to fight in the air. If Naruto jumps and fires FRS, are you going to tell me that he's a mid air fighter now? I hope not. :lol

And where. Where was the bold shown? All I remember is the panel of them in the air. The single panel of them in the air. Nothing that'd actually help your claim.

 

[Zexion~]

Being able to launch an attack in air obviously doesn't equate to being able to fight in the air. If Naruto jumps and fires FRS, are you going to tell me that he's a mid air fighter now? I hope not. :lol

And where. Where was the bold shown? All I remember is the panel of them in the air. The single panel of them in the air. Nothing that'd actually help your claim.

Well I mean seeing as all they do is fire jutsu, thats basically them fighting :lol and its different because they remain in the air longer, and have the ability to change their AoE much quicker than most people in the air due to being made of flexible threads

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This is not what jumping looks like, especially when you combine that with the one scan of them hovering in the air .-.

Plus when the lightening heart was destroyed it lookde like it was still in the air

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[Unorthodox]

Flying jinton gg

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Then you are going to have to show that those are the same size root, because while the Bijuu rival the root behind them in height, the root that Sasuke's enhanced Susanoo cut dwarfed it.

KG the Roots on the floor laying flat are Symmetrical, what is there to prove whats already there[

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]? Both battles I compare were near the end of the roots. While Sasuke's scenario wasnt.

The humans compared the to the statue and then humans compared to Bijuu or objects that rival Bijuu in size is enough to put this argument to rest.

Dont know what your seeing honestly[

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Please don't try and deviate the argument into something completely irrelevant. The power of the jutsu is irrelevant. The scale of the jutsu is what's being discussed here as the scale is what's going to let him hit Onoki.

True. Scale or speed.

No, based on Kakuzu's Suiton not even having any feats. :lol

Obv. If I were to give him high level Suiton, it would be same scale as his other AoE jutsu. Which also = engulfing Buijuu size.

No, it doesn't. Zukkoku has never shown to come close to Atsugai in size so don't even bother.

I think I would bother:

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They both carry same height. Both cover 3-4 lengths of those trees

-Masks can't fly or fight in air, first of all. Not sure how you people reached that conclusion from seeing two of them in mid air for a single panel.
-Only Atsugai matches Hiruzen's elements in scale.
-

They can jump higher waay higher then normal Shinobi's could base on the fact they were way higher height then the height of Choza. And the way they alter the movements in the air? At best scribes gliding. Still better then Hiruzen can perform in that air.

 

[Braiyan]

Onoki calls up a Rock Golem, flies behind Kakuzu whilst he deals with it, and vaporizes him and his masks with Jinton. If more deception is needed, he simply makes a Rock Clone while the Golem blocks Kakuzu's vision, has him try to tag that while he flies behind Kakuzu, and vaporizes him and his masks with Jinton.

 

[super yang]

Onoki calls up a Rock Golem, flies behind Kakuzu whilst he deals with it, and vaporizes him and his masks with Jinton. If more deception is needed, he simply makes a Rock Clone while the Golem blocks Kakuzu's vision, has him try to tag that while he flies behind Kakuzu, and vaporizes him and his masks with Jinton.

yep, this is the diffeerence between hiruzen & kakuzu - versatlity.