Kakuzu vs Onoki

[Beans2]

Can we please just let this terrible thread die.

 

[KidGamer65]

Then I suggest you use the actual scan I post to compare it, as you already know the length of the hollow trees rivals the length of Buijuus/Boss Summon. So let me draw it out for you:

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I gave arrows to the trees im talking about

Red= The alignment of two trees next to Kakuzu.
Blue= Use this to measure the distance it will fall.

- If the tree landing right next to Choji/Shiki is true, by scaling/pixel, then the length inbetween him and Kakuzu are Buijuu length.

- If its shorter, I would like to know how you gone to that conclusion.

:lol What the hell? Please learn how to scale correctly, because this makes zero sense.

1. Your red line literally shows nothing because Kakuzu is farther back from the "camera" than the trees are, so how in the world are they aligned on a straight line in your comparison? :lol Cause perspective, common sense and every Manga page after this shows no trees next to Kakuzu and his masks.

2. Blue measures it's height, but literally says nothing about the distance between Kakuzu and Choji so maknig this comparison is pointless and doesn't help your argument.

Its relevant because the feats of leaping that far in a instant, yet alone a single roar will activate the jutsu is going to hit before Jinton is fired.

Except the bold is baseless. All you have shown is that they can reach that height. Quickly or "in an instant" is something you just added to your argument that doesn't exist in the Manga. Not to mention a single roar=/=Actually hitting the target when a single roar isn't the time it takes for the jutsu to travel from one

Golems is only strong on ground. Without Earth source, its best at tanking C1.

:lol Your point? Who told you he'd need to form a golem in mid air while he's charging Jinton when he can just have a clone form the golem?

Clones can't do sht, as Wind only target is the Onoki capable of using Jinton. A wind stream blows any of him in his main target

First sentence is false, the rest is irrelevant. Rock Golem blocks Atsugai while Jinton kills him. Considering you've yet to actually show that a mask is fast enough to close whatever distance it needs to close via it's jump and then have it's attack reach Onoki before Jinton can be charged, your argument isn't going anywhere. Especially with that ridiculous attempt to exaggerate the distance Gian covers.


Or Onoki foregoes Jinton at that moment, evades whatever overrated elemental jutsu Kakuzu fires at him and uses the resulting attack (Fuuton in this case) as a visual cover to nuke him and the rest of his masks in one shot with Jinton.

Or Onoki kills the wind mask without Jinton.

 

[Lord Tywin]

SMH Onoki is portrayed far above Kakuzu in both feats and portrayal

 

[LuckyMan]

SMH Onoki is portrayed far above Kakuzu in both feats and portrayal

Kakuzu was portrayed on Hashirama level. But then again, he was portrayed on that level before the ridiculous power creep occurred so thats probably wrong now.

 

[Zexion~]

If this man admits defeat it's literally no hope for kuzu considering zex would defend kuzu till the end of time against Oden himself!! Lmao

lolol not true, I've calmed down with the Kakuzu love recently.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

:lol What the hell? Please learn how to scale correctly, because this makes zero sense.

More like you having trouble understanding them.

1. Your red line literally shows nothing because Kakuzu is farther back from the "camera" than the trees are, so how in the world are they aligned on a straight line in your comparison? :lol Cause perspective, common sense and every Manga page after this shows no trees next to Kakuzu and his masks.

The line was suppose to show that the trees are aligned, not Kakuzu. Kakuzu being farther back from the trees would support my point even further! @Underline KG if common sense was being used by you, you would know that the trees not shown anymore means the camera is not focused outward anymore.

2. Blue measures it's height, but literally says nothing about the distance between Kakuzu and Choji so maknig this comparison is pointless and doesn't help your argument.

KG I asked you to find the area of the tree would land if they were to fall inbetween Kakuzu and Choji/Shiki. This is a hypothetically question. I measure the trees length of the tress on purpose to help determine the length of how far it will fall in between Choji and Shiki to Kakuzu. And If my measurements are correct, then that means Raiton traveled at the length of those trees! Or even further because you conclude that Kakuzu is even further back.

Except the bold is baseless. All you have shown is that they can reach that height. Quickly or "in an instant" is something you just added to your argument that doesn't exist in the Manga. Not to mention a single roar=/=Actually hitting the target when a single roar isn't the time it takes for the jutsu to travel from one

@Im sorry[

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] their leap shows shadow figures. Which indicates the speed their moving when jumping.
@underline DB stats what I mention[

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] stop nickpicking the wind after the roar is sudden.

:lol Your point? Who told you he'd need to form a golem in mid air while he's charging Jinton when he can just have a clone form the golem?

Who told you to assume I imply that? And Im not taking you serious if you think a human size golem is going to block and protect Onoki.

First sentence is false, the rest is irrelevant. Rock Golem blocks Atsugai while Jinton kills him. Considering you've yet to actually show that a mask is fast enough to close whatever distance it needs to close via it's jump and then have it's attack reach Onoki before Jinton can be charged, your argument isn't going anywhere. Especially with that ridiculous attempt to exaggerate the distance Gian covers.

Addressed above lets stop and think about this again.

Or Onoki foregoes Jinton at that moment, evades whatever overrated elemental jutsu Kakuzu fires at him and uses the resulting attack (Fuuton in this case) as a visual cover to nuke him and the rest of his masks in one shot with Jinton.

Or Onoki kills the wind mask without Jinton.

The only thing being overeating is you with featless clones and human size Golems blocking Atsugai.

 

[KidGamer65]

]The line was suppose to show that the trees are aligned, not Kakuzu. Kakuzu being farther back from the trees would support my point even further! @Underline KG if common sense was being used by you, you would know that the trees not shown anymore means the camera is not focused outward anymore.

So I guess this is the part of the discussion where you keep on acting like a retard in hopes I'll concede "just because".

1. Kakuzu being farther back doesn't help your point first of all. Your point is, that if the tree falls it would fall in between Kakuzu and Choji, thus the distance between them is the same length as the trees, but Kakuzu being farther back only helps if the distance between them is large enough to matter. Something you've yet to show.

2. If the trees were as close to Kakuzu as shown in the scan, they'd be seen in the rest of the panels. The rest of panels don't zoom in far enough to cut them off completely, especially since some shots aren't as zoomed in as others.

KG I asked you to find the area of the tree would land if they were to fall inbetween Kakuzu and Choji/Shiki. This is a hypothetically question. I measure the trees length of the tress on purpose to help determine the length of how far it will fall in between Choji and Shiki to Kakuzu. And If my measurements are correct, then that means Raiton traveled at the length of those trees! Or even further because you conclude that Kakuzu is even further back.

Not my job to do anything. Prove your point or back it with evidence and then I'll respond. All you have done is measured the length of the trees. You haven't shown that the distance between the two is equal or greater to the length of the tree thus you don't even have an argument.

All you are saying here is "Help me prove my argument". :lol FOH.

@Im sorry[

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] their leap shows shadow figures. Which indicates the speed their moving when jumping.
@underline DB stats what I mention[

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] stop nickpicking the wind after the roar is sudden.

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Yes guys. Them having movement lines under their bodies as they jump indicates the speed they are moving at. :lol If only that made a shred of sense. All you can tell is that they are moving. I can get you people who are low tier when it comes to speed being drawn the same way when they jump. Thanks for revealing that your argument is nothing but a reach now.

Lol, I have to nitpick because you want to try and cut out every part after the roar like it doesn't exist. The wind has to travel. That's a fact. You can post as many DB scans as you want, but that won't change the facts. The wind has to travel and Kakashi had the speed to evade it despite being right in front of the mask when it went off. This jutsu's only speed feat is a terrible one at that, which is why it's not surprising that you people hop to the DB to try and prove your points about it's speed........because the Manga shits all over it.

Who told you to assume I imply that? And Im not taking you serious if you think a human size golem is going to block and protect Onoki.

Please pull your head out of your ass kiddo and start reading and comprehending before you reply. Where the hell did I say a human sized golem would be used?

Oh wait, nowhere.

Addressed above lets stop and think about this again.

Yeah, no.

The only thing being overeating is you with featless clones and human size Golems blocking Atsugai.

English comprehension. Please find your local community college and take that class or something similar before we continue this discussion. Also, learn how to form a coherent argument. How long have you been posting now? :lol It's like you expect to prove your case in an argument without me ignoring the fact that if you don't have an argument, I will call you out on it. As of now, your argument is:

-Tree=Bijuu in height.
-Two trees are aligned.

That's everything you can actually prove. As for the BS you can't prove:

-Distance between Kakuzu and Choji=one of those trees in length.
-Masks can kill Onoki before Jinton can be fired.

Get these poverty arguments out of here.

 

[Zexion~]

:lol at golems blocking Atsugai though, an attack that literally bursts into its AoE regardless of whats in the way, it may tank it but its not blocking anything.

 

[KidGamer65]

:lol at golems blocking Atsugai though, an attack that literally bursts into its AoE regardless of whats in the way, it may tank it but its not blocking anything.

:lol Terrible and irrelevant argument since the only way it catches it's targets in the AoE of the attack is if it reaches that far in the first place. If it doesn't reach far enough, then the edge of the blast is what hits Onoki, and based on EJBlacks terrible argument, Kakuzu's masks never get this close.

You guys can stop now.

 

[Beans2]

Lol at a fuuton which couldn't do damage to Hidan's body busting through rock golem.

 

[Zexion~]

:lol Terrible and irrelevant argument since the only way it catches it's targets in the AoE of the attack is if it reaches that far in the first place. If it doesn't reach far enough, then the edge of the blast is what hits Onoki, and based on EJBlacks terrible argument, Kakuzu's masks never get this close.

You guys can stop now.

Yes but just placing something in front obviously doesn't negate it from increasing its AoE :lol or it hitting Hidan would have stopped it as that was before it increased its size in the first place, or all the tree's in its way...Just like FRS (also a fuuton surprisingly) explodes regardless of if something is in its way or not, Atsugai does as well.

Lol at a fuuton which couldn't do damage to Hidan's body busting through rock golem.

Yet ripped its environment appart? Obviously Hidan wasn't hit with the full brunt of the blow, and i'll let you realize for yourself the effects high air pressure has on a HUMAN

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes but just placing something in front obviously doesn't negate it from increasing its AoE :lol or it hitting Hidan would have stopped it as that was before it increased its size in the first place, or all the tree's in its way...Just like FRS (also a fuuton surprisingly) explodes regardless of if something is in its way or not, Atsugai does as well.



Yet ripped its environment appart? Obviously Hidan wasn't hit with the full brunt of the blow, and i'll let you realize for yourself the effects high air pressure has on a HUMAN

Lol what are you even talking about?

Terrible and irrelevant argument since the only way it catches it's targets in the AoE of the attack is if it reaches that far in the first place. If it doesn't reach far enough, then the edge of the blast is what hits Onoki, and based on EJBlacks terrible argument, Kakuzu's masks never get this close.

The reason why it doesn't reach is because it's range isn't that long, not because there is a physical barrier.

 

[Zexion~]

Lol what are you even talking about?



The reason why it doesn't reach is because it's range isn't that long, not because there is a physical barrier.

? If thats what you were saying then why even reply to me, I was simply saying a physical barrier in the way wouldn't prevent the attack CLEARLY and I think you knew that my man.

 

[KidGamer65]

? If thats what you were saying then why even reply to me, I was simply saying a physical barrier in the way wouldn't prevent the attack CLEARLY and I think you knew that my man.

Lol don't start ducking now when it was obvious you were replying to me. If you were simply saying that a physical barrier wouldn't stop the attack, then you wouldn't have begun your post with "Lol @ Golems blocking Atsugai".

 

[Braiyan]

Except the scenario is different then Naruto. As clones are attacking close range while Onoki's only threat is long range.

So Kakuzu priorities is the one that actually has to stay back and fire Jinton, since Clones arent capable.

Considering that the clones can make themselves light enough to fly, it also follows that they can make themselves heavy. In which case they dodge the masks' elemental attacks (of which there can only be 2 at most, since Domu isn't offensive, and a non Suiton mask would have to deal with the Golem) using Onoki's feats of being as fast as Deidara's bird, then immobilise a mask with a Heavy Rock Fist. So much for Onoki's only threat being long-range.

During that time Onoki can either Jinton the masks or Kakuzu himself. His charge time really isn't that long[

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][

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].

 

[Zexion~]

Lol don't start ducking now when it was obvious you were replying to me. If you were simply saying that a physical barrier wouldn't stop the attack, then you wouldn't have begun your post with "Lol @ Golems blocking Atsugai".

The only thing being overeating is you with featless clones and human size Golems blocking Atsugai.

I saw this exact quote, didn't even look at who it was quoted from, was merely adressing the point smh.

 

[KidGamer65]

I saw this exact quote, didn't even look at who it was quoted from, was merely adressing the point smh.

Then why are you surprised that i responded when you were clearly addressing the point i made whether or not you know i made it, like i just said. Lol stop.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

1. Kakuzu being farther back doesn't help your point first of all. Your point is, that if the tree falls it would fall in between Kakuzu and Choji, thus the distance between them is the same length as the trees, but Kakuzu being farther back only helps if the distance between them is large enough to matter. Something you've yet to show.

I over complicated how to measure the distance, when there's an easy way. Reaguardless I expected you to be deductive about, which isnt asking for much.

Choji and Shiki 3 trees down. Kakuzu's Raiton travel 3-4 witdths of trees (Which I already provided the distance between each, which is also Symmetrical). Which = the width of his Futon and Katon:

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2. If the trees were as close to Kakuzu as shown in the scan, they'd be seen in the rest of the panels. The rest of panels don't zoom in far enough to cut them off completely, especially since some shots aren't as zoomed in as others.

Dont know what your seeing. But clearly common sense is not common

Yes guys. Them having movement lines under their bodies as they jump indicates the speed they are moving at. :lol If only that made a shred of sense. All you can tell is that they are moving. I can get you people who are low tier when it comes to speed being drawn the same way when they jump. Thanks for revealing that your argument is nothing but a reach now.

KG the issue with you is how long it takes for them to jump from the ditsance they travel via above Choza. You conclude that the speed is nothing, and a low tier can do the same thing, so prove it.

Lol, I have to nitpick because you want to try and cut out every part after the roar like it doesn't exist. The wind has to travel. That's a fact. You can post as many DB scans as you want, but that won't change the facts. The wind has to travel and Kakashi had the speed to evade it despite being right in front of the mask when it went off. This jutsu's only speed feat is a terrible one at that, which is why it's not surprising that you people hop to the DB to try and prove your points about it's speed........because the Manga shits all over it.

Your opinion on the speed it travels =/= the speed Onoki can evade nor make the Jinton charge in time, so I can leave it at that.

Please pull your head out of your ass kiddo and start reading and comprehending before you reply. Where the hell did I say a human sized golem would be used?

Oh wait, nowhere.

You werent the only person I was replying so (who did). And Im mixing implications from yours so my bad

 

[KidGamer65]

I over complicated how to measure the distance, when there's an easy way. Reaguardless I expected you to be deductive about, which isnt asking for much.

Choji and Shiki 3 trees down. Kakuzu's Raiton travel 3-4 witdths of trees (Which I already provided the distance between each, which is also Symmetrical). Which = the width of his Futon and Katon:

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Dont know what your seeing. But clearly common sense is not common



KG the issue with you is how long it takes for them to jump from the ditsance they travel via above Choza. You conclude that the speed is nothing, and a low tier can do the same thing, so prove it.



Your opinion on the speed it travels =/= the speed Onoki can evade nor make the Jinton charge in time, so I can leave it at that.



You werent the only person I was replying so (who did). And Im mixing implications from yours so my bad

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Your comparison is 100% garbage because being able to travel 3 trees widths doesn't equal him being able to do the same with it's length. And no Katon or Fuuton Kakuzu has is equal to 3-4 tree widths combined. I'd like for you to stop making shit up now.

I never said that a low tier could do the same exact thing at the same exact speed, I said that showing those movement lines doesn't help your argument because low tiers have been shown doing it before. Why don't you stop being an idiot and start posting actual speed feats like anyone would do when trying to make an argument. Me being able to produce scans of low tiers doing this doesn't help your argument as you literally have no feat.

Anyway, here you go.

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Now drop this BS argument.

Or we can leave it at the fact that you simply don't have proof for anything you are saying, which is alright. I didn't expect anything more from you considering your predictable pattern of argumentation.

 

[EZQ]

Lol at a fuuton which couldn't do damage to Hidan's body busting through rock golem.

That's definitely a hyperbole/ fail logic from Kishi.

It was stated that Kakuzu and Hidan had killed people with that combo before, and Hidan's body is not more durable than a normal human body. So, if they use that jutsu to kill people then Hidan's body should have showed the fatal wounds that those people showed when they died (but the only difference is that hidan doesn't die from those wounds). But then we see Hidan's body unscratched, which means if Kakashi got hit by it, he wouldn't have died. and not only that, his body would have been unscratched too, but then again, Kakashi's body isn't more durable than those dead people either.

My opinion? Kishi forgot to draw Hidan's body looking like shit. That part of the manga would only make sense if Atsugai was one of those attacks that cause internal damage, but it obviously isn't.

About Atsuugai vs Rock Golem, i don't know if it can break trough it, but if the golem opposes a resistance, it definitely gets pushed back, given the scans where it's showed that atsugay can blow away a forest clean.