If Madara fought Kaguya

[kuchiyosenojutsuironmaidn]

This post is just one big assumption. No rinnegan user used izanagi before so idk where you got that from.

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[HiddenSound]

To refute your earlier point, Laser circus takes out the eye and can follow her into her portal. I doubt strongly that Kaguya can outrun lightning and weighted boulder counters the gravity manipulation, so kamui is not the only jutsu that can help.

To answer your question, Izanagi counters dimemsional shift and bends reality to his will (the way Obito used it on Karin). Izanami can be activated when she uses the dimensional shift more than twice. If she takes him to the Lava dimension, he can use water style to create a foothold OR just spam Izanagi to return to a familiar dimension. No other dimension poses a threat. And he wouldn't go completely blind neither because the rinnegan does not go away after using izanagi. Cheers!

Kaguya, who reacted to Sasuke's Amenotejikara/Chidori combo, counters Laser Circus like nothing...
Kaguya doesn't need the gravity dimension in this fight. Besides, you assume the amount of gravity manipulated by that technique would be enough to move under Kaguya's gravity. But none of that actually matters because you're arguing for Justus Madara doesn't possess :|

Izanagi (Banbutsu Sōzō) on that level would be a good counter, if Madara could perform Izanagi on that level. You put Madara on the same level as Juubi Jin Hagoromo when the fact of the matter is he isn't.
A disembodied, non-Juubi Jin Hagoromo's gave pieces of his power to Naruto and Sasuke, who then countered Madara at every turn. A fully powered, living, breathing Hagoromo with the Juubi is obviously far more powerful so the comparison is a flawed one. If Madara could use Izanagi/Banbutsu Sōzō in such a fashion, it probably would've been wise to, you know, use it from time to time.

 

[kuchiyosenojutsuironmaidn]

Kaguya, who reacted to Sasuke's Amenotejikara/Chidori combo, counters Laser Circus like nothing...
Kaguya doesn't need the gravity dimension in this fight. Besides, you assume the amount of gravity manipulated by that technique would be enough to move under Kaguya's gravity. But none of that actually matters because you're arguing for Justus Madara doesn't possess :|

Izanagi (Banbutsu Sōzō) on that level would be a good counter, if Madara could perform Izanagi on that level. You put Madara on the same level as Juubi Jin Hagoromo when the fact of the matter is he isn't.
A disembodied, non-Juubi Jin Hagoromo's gave pieces of his power to Naruto and Sasuke, who then countered Madara at every turn. A fully powered, living, breathing Hagoromo with the Juubi is obviously far more powerful so the comparison is a flawed one. If Madara could use Izanagi/Banbutsu Sōzō in such a fashion, it probably would've been wise to, you know, use it from time to time.

I won't argue about laser circus and weighted boulder, because you're right, he does not have them. Those are just the jutsus I would want if I were him facing her.

But your other points:

Level scaling means nothing here. The anbus of the leaf had to get together to do one FTG with Mei, but that didn't change the fact that they could do it. Kakashi has a kamui limit, but can spam it if he's being fed chakra by Kuruma and Sakura. And Madara may only have one or two Izanagis in him, but let him catch his breath, and he may squeeze out a third.

Naruto and Sasuke were already powerful. Naruto had traces of the tailed beasts in him from playing with them earlier and learning their names. Sasuke had EMS and was given Hashi-cells and sage chakra from Kabuto. Hagoromo only enhanced their powers by giving them a mode. Remember the mass FTG that saved the SA from the JTBB? Same principle.

Madara did not spam Izanagi because he was nerfed before we could see his full power and he was toying with everybody when he was an edo. And you still didn't address the Izanami issue. Izanami ends the fight if BZ is taken out first. Cheers.

 

[Seventh Sama]

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Mistranslation. That's creation of all things that can "create". Izanagi is based on it by rewriting ones death.

 

[kuchiyosenojutsuironmaidn]

Mistranslation. That's creation of all things that can "create". Izanagi is based on it by rewriting ones death.

... and today on Discovery: we observe the Butticus-Hurticus in the forum jungle.

:wesobi:

 

[Seventh Sama]

... and today on Discovery: we observe the Butticus-Hurticus in the forum jungle.

:wesobi:

Someone correcting you is considered being "butthurt"? k fam whatever u say.:bdpf:

 

[HiddenSound]

I won't argue about laser circus and weighted boulder, because you're right, he does not have them. Those are just the jutsus I would want if I were him facing her.

But your other points:

Level scaling means nothing here. The anbus of the leaf had to get together to do one FTG with Mei, but that didn't change the fact that they could do it. Kakashi has a kamui limit, but can spam it if he's being fed chakra by Kuruma and Sakura. And Madara may only have one or two Izanagis in him, but let him catch his breath, and he may squeeze out a third.

Naruto and Sasuke were already powerful. Naruto had traces of the tailed beasts in him from playing with them earlier and learning their names. Sasuke had EMS and was given Hashi-cells and sage chakra from Kabuto. Hagoromo only enhanced their powers by giving them a mode. Remember the mass FTG that saved the SA from the JTBB? Same principle.

Madara did not spam Izanagi because he was nerfed before we could see his full power and he was toying with everybody when he was an edo. And you still didn't address the Izanami issue. Izanami ends the fight if BZ is taken out first. Cheers.

It means everything. It's the determining factor on whether or not an individual character can perform a Jutsu. Because Madara had Kaguya's Rinnesharingan, he could potentially use Amenominaka himself. But he can't because his level of Chakra is dwarfed by Kaguya's.
Yes, Naruto and Sasuke were already powerful before the Sage intervened. And they got destroyed by Madara. After the Sage intervened and gave them part of his power, the tables turned.

I didn't bother with Izanami because I thought it was a typo. Madara does not have Izanami. If he did, Izanami is still useless as he wouldn't be able to set up against Kaguya, who does not use Izanagi and knows her true self.

I'm not following your thought process at the bold.

 

[kuchiyosenojutsuironmaidn]

It means everything. It's the determining factor on whether or not an individual character can perform a Jutsu. Because Madara had Kaguya's Rinnesharingan, he could potentially use Amenominaka himself. But he can't because his level of Chakra is dwarfed by Kaguya's.
Yes, Naruto and Sasuke were already powerful before the Sage intervened. And they got destroyed by Madara. After the Sage intervened and gave them part of his power, the tables turned.

I didn't bother with Izanami because I thought it was a typo. Madara does not have Izanami. If he did, Izanami is still useless as he wouldn't be able to set up against Kaguya, who does not use Izanagi and knows her true self.

I'm not following your thought process at the bold.

My point "in the bold" is that knowing the jutsu is enough, the chakra level can be compromised. The Anbu know FTG, but none of them could do it alone only because of the chakra it takes to do it. But they did it together. Even if they can't spam it like Minato. Same with Madara. He has the requirements for at least one Izanagi, he just couldn't spam it as many times as Hagoromo could, but chakra is the only limiter (which Madara has plenty of). Put plainly, Izanagi does not cost him an eye so it is a reusable weapon and thereby a "good counter". Cheers.

:flakez:

 

[Aznkidd]

it took 1 genius of stragtegy, 1 tanker, 1 striker, 1 cheat and minus 1 low battery to able to seal up Kaguya.
So answer is no, Madara get woop his a$$.

 

[HiddenSound]

My point "in the bold" is that knowing the jutsu is enough, the chakra level can be compromised. The Anbu know FTG, but none of them could do it alone only because of the chakra it takes to do it. But they did it together. Even if they can't spam it like Minato. Same with Madara. He has the requirements for at least one Izanagi, he just couldn't spam it as many times as Hagoromo could, but chakra is the only limiter (which Madara has plenty of). Put plainly, Izanagi does not cost him an eye so it is a reusable weapon and thereby a "good counter". Cheers.

:flakez:

No it's not. To use a Jutsu one must have the Chakra to do so.
For most, Izanagi only rewrites a small piece of reality, such as when Obito and Danzo used it to counter physical damage.
The next time we see it, the Sage uses it to split up the Juubi.
And you think Madara's Chakra, which is dwarfed by the Sage's, is enough to use this Jutsu to rewrite which dimension he is in... You'll have to forgive me if I'm unconvinced.

But for the sake of argument, let's say he can. You said Madara would only be able to use that Jutsu, what, three times?
You really think Kaguya is going to let him "catch his breath"? Chakra is not replenished after a few moments, once he uses Banbutsu Sozo to counter Amenominaka he will have lost a vast amount of Chakra for just one counter. Your almost-good counter is still just almost-good.

 

[Aznkidd]

My point "in the bold" is that knowing the jutsu is enough, the chakra level can be compromised. The Anbu know FTG, but none of them could do it alone only because of the chakra it takes to do it. But they did it together. Even if they can't spam it like Minato. Same with Madara. He has the requirements for at least one Izanagi, he just couldn't spam it as many times as Hagoromo could, but chakra is the only limiter (which Madara has plenty of). Put plainly, Izanagi does not cost him an eye so it is a reusable weapon and thereby a "good counter". Cheers.

:flakez:

when izanagi does not cost him an eye ?
since when ?

 

[kuchiyosenojutsuironmaidn]

No it's not. To use a Jutsu one must have the Chakra to do so.
For most, Izanagi only rewrites a small piece of reality, such as when Obito and Danzo used it to counter physical damage.
The next time we see it, the Sage uses it to split up the Juubi.
And you think Madara's Chakra, which is dwarfed by the Sage's, is enough to use this Jutsu to rewrite which dimension he is in... You'll have to forgive me if I'm unconvinced.

But for the sake of argument, let's say he can. You said Madara would only be able to use that Jutsu, what, three times?
You really think Kaguya is going to let him "catch his breath"? Chakra is not replenished after a few moments, once he uses Banbutsu Sozo to counter Amenominaka he will have lost a vast amount of Chakra for just one counter. Your almost-good counter is still just almost-good.

I am almost ready to rep you up. Almost. Because how will she know how many he got in him? She didn't spam Naruto. She ditched Sasuke. She ignored Sakura. You're assuming she has keen battle sense, but she doesn't. and Madara is too confident to show weakness. He would certainly know to get rid of BZ first. Just sayin'.

 

[HiddenSound]

I am almost ready to rep you up. Almost. Because how will she know how many he got in him? She didn't spam Naruto. She ditched Sasuke. She ignored Sakura. You're assuming she has keen battle sense, but she doesn't. and Madara is too confident to show weakness. He would certainly know to get rid of BZ first. Just sayin'.

Kaguya will know how many Izanagis he has in him because she has the Byakugan. She will always know exactly how much Chakra Madara has. Keen senses don't matter very much when your strength is so far beyond everyone else's.
I doubt Madara would last long enough to figure out and act on Black Zetsu, which he wou;dn't even be able to at all. This argument has reached the end, I think.

 

[Curteth]

Good debate/discussion folks, thanks for the enlightening

 

[Honord Sage]

This thread makes no sense sines Kaguya was inside Madara and absorbed Madara setting a new record on how fast Madara was defeated. Naruto fighting Kaguya alone lasted longer than Madara. Fact Kaguya dispatch two Uchiha’s fast, Madara and Sasuke who She teleported to a noter dimension.

 

[Curteth]

I would like too think it makes sense in the "if they were too have".