Kaguya Ōtsutsuki - The Mother of Chakra... Was kinda Disappointing.

[davidou]

Kuruma was an entity created from Kaguya/Juubi. Kuruma is a huge mass of Chakra. Since Kaguya's will is not there (Cause it became Black Zetsu); Kuruma doesn't have to ask Kaguya for chakra. The same goes to Humans with Kaguya's dispersed chakra.

As to how Kuruma can build Chakra when he is empty, it's done by conversion of Energy.

Okay , we agree on that , then , we come back to my first question that was:
How can you call this newly created chakra , created by energy conversion , Kaguya's?

Madara's statements were intended by the author to be taken as the truth. Most of his story was accurate expect for a few parts which was done for plot purposes. Also, Madara's statements are backed up by Hagoromo. so I think it's the truth.

Madara's words are not facts , it can be truth , or not , believers have the right to believe , but not to call it truth.

 

[ROHAN]

Okay , we agree on that , then , we come back to my first question that was:
How can you call this newly created chakra , created by energy conversion , Kaguya's?



Madara's words are not facts , it can be truth , or not , believers have the right to believe , but not to call it truth.

Yes, it will be Kaguya's because it was converted into that form. For example you can call Fuel Physical and Mental Energy and the Fire Chakra. Once the Fuel becomes Fire, the Energy has converted so you can't call the Fire Fuel. Kuruma will never run out of Chakra (As he is immortal) and the Chakra is used in the conversion process. Since Kaguya's chakra was used in the process to manufacture Chakra, the newly created Chakra will also be Kaguya's.

Kishi intended Madara's statements to be taken as the truth. I don't see what purpose it would achieve if it was a lie as it demolishes the God Tree theme that Kishi established.

 

[davidou]

Yes, it will be Kaguya's because it was converted into that form. For example you can call Fuel Physical and Mental Energy and the Fire Chakra. Once the Fuel becomes Fire, the Energy has converted so you can't call the Fire Fuel. Kuruma will never run out of Chakra (As he is immortal) and the Chakra is used in the conversion process. Since Kaguya's chakra was used in the process to manufacture Chakra, the newly created Chakra will also be Kaguya's.

Kishi intended Madara's statements to be taken as the truth. I don't see what purpose it would achieve if it was a lie as it demolishes the God Tree theme that Kishi established.

I simply don't agree with your reasonning , for 2 reasons:

1/You state that ninjas use chakra (especially Kaguya's chakra) to built chakra.
Where in the manga is it stated that ninjas use chakra to built chakra?
And then , where is it stated that the chakra used is Kaguya's?
Even if it was the case , that wouldn't be a proof that this newly created chakra is Kaguya's.

2/If I take your hammer (chakra) to built another hammer from my wood (physical) and my steel (spirit) , this newly created hammer (chakra) will be my hammer , not yours!
What makes you think that you deserve to be the owner of the newly created hammer?


Your exemple over fuel and fire is out of this debate but interesting and debatable.


Stop saying what Kishimoto intended to do , you are not him , you believe , you are not sure , if you are sure , you are lying to yourself.

No, I answered to 'When Kurama , Naruto or any ninja recover chakra , does they ask Kaguya to give them some?' and I answered 'No as her chakra is already in them'. Don't go twisting words around here.

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Madara directly states that all the chakra 'here' is the Shinju's (Kaguya). And this is Manga canon. Oh and:

'Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra'
You don't have anything to back up anything your saying, whereas I've got a bunch of Manga scans that are pretty direct with their statements.

Still got your jimmies rustled.

Don't worry, I'm going easy on you.

Lol , again , your answer still has no meaning...

Madara can state whatever he wants to , including mistakes.
My first post is still holding against all your confused posts and unnecessary scans , you look like a monkey in this debate compared to Sam.

 

[Ansatsuken]

I simply don't agree with your reasonning , for 2 reasons:

1/You state that ninjas use chakra (especially Kaguya's chakra) to built chakra.
Where in the manga is it stated that ninjas use chakra to built chakra?
And then , where is it stated that the chakra used is Kaguya's?
Even if it was the case , that wouldn't be a proof that this newly created chakra is Kaguya's.

2/If I take your hammer (chakra) to built another hammer from my wood (physical) and my steel (spirit) , this newly created hammer (chakra) will be my hammer , not yours!
What makes you think that you deserve to be the owner of the newly created hammer?


Your exemple over fuel and fire is out of this debate but interesting and debatable.


Stop saying what Kishimoto intended to do , you are not him , you believe , you are not sure , if you are sure , you are lying to yourself.

You should know what actually the thing Sam used as example of similarity. Sam using something that can be mixed together into one but you'are using something that cant be mixed together.

Your usage of example of similarity:-

-Sam's hammer just a tool to built new hammer(your hammer) and his hammer will not mixed into your new hammer. Because of that he cant claim your hammer, his hammer. That is the difference between you and Sam usage of example of similarities.

Sam using something that can mixed together into one. Fire. I change it a little bit. Fuel(Physical), Energy(Mental) and Oxygen(chakra)=newly created Chakra in Fire ninjutsu. Or you can change between Energy(mental) with Oxygen(Chakra), it will be Energy(Chakra) and Oxygen(Mental).

 

[davidou]

You should know what actually the thing Sam used as example of similarity. Sam using something that can be mixed together into one but you'are using something that cant be mixed together.

Your usage of example of similarity:-

-Sam's hammer just a tool to built new hammer(your hammer) and his hammer will not mixed into your new hammer. Because of that he cant claim your hammer, his hammer. That is the difference between you and Sam usage of example of similarities.

Sam using something that can mixed together into one. Fire. I change it a little bit. Fuel(Physical), Energy(Mental) and Oxygen(chakra)=newly created Chakra in Fire ninjutsu. Or you can change between Energy(mental) with Oxygen(Chakra), it will be Energy(Chakra) and Oxygen(Mental).

It seems your weak point is Oxygen.

 

[Ansatsuken]

It seems your weak point is Oxygen.

Yeah, I having a problem to fit Oxygen inside that mixture but at least you get the point here.

Sam using an example where the materials can be mixed together into one. Thats mean Kaguya's chakra still present inside the newly created Ninjutsu(battle chakra).

 

[davidou]

Yeah, I having a problem to fit Oxygen inside that mixture but at least you get the point here.

Sam using an example where the materials can be mixed together into one. Thats mean Kaguya's chakra still present inside the newly created Ninjutsu(battle chakra).

I simply don't agree with your reasonning , for 2 reasons:

1/You state that ninjas use chakra (especially Kaguya's chakra) to built chakra.
Where in the manga is it stated that ninjas use chakra to built chakra?
And then , where is it stated that the chakra used is Kaguya's?
Even if it was the case , that wouldn't be a proof that this newly created chakra is Kaguya's.

2/If I take your hammer (chakra) to built another hammer from my wood (physical) and my steel (spirit) , this newly created hammer (chakra) will be my hammer , not yours!
What makes you think that you deserve to be the owner of the newly created hammer?

Your exemple over fuel and fire is out of this debate but interesting and debatable.

 

[Ansatsuken]

I simply don't agree with your reasonning , for 2 reasons:

1/You state that ninjas use chakra (especially Kaguya's chakra) to built chakra.
Where in the manga is it stated that ninjas use chakra to built chakra?
And then , where is it stated that the chakra used is Kaguya's?
Even if it was the case , that wouldn't be a proof that this newly created chakra is Kaguya's.

2/If I take your hammer (chakra) to built another hammer from my wood (physical) and my steel (spirit) , this newly created hammer (chakra) will be my hammer , not yours!
What makes you think that you deserve to be the owner of the newly created hammer?

Your exemple over fuel and fire is out of this debate but interesting and debatable.

The point you post same statement for Sam to me? Out of argument?

Everytime Shinobi using Ninjutsu they used un-moulded chakra. That un-moulded chakra was Kaguya's dispersed chakra that was passed down for century long.

"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (身体エネルギー, shintai enerugī) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (精神エネルギー, seishin enerugī, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience. These two energies becoming more powerful will in turn make the created chakra more powerful. Therefore, practising a technique repeatedly will build up experience, increasing one's spiritual energy, and thus allowing more chakra to be created. As a result, the ninja is able to do that same technique with more power. This same cycle applies for physical energy, except the ninja needs to increase their endurance instead."

What stated above was similar to what stated by Kakashi in manga but BZ, Hago and Kaguya knew more than him.

What Kakashi told to Naruto was how to created a ninjutsu and not raw chakra. Without chakra Shinobi couldnt mold their Ýin and Yang together. Inside Yin and Yang were human nature element reside.

Long time ago before human received chakra, they already had Yin/Yang elements inside their body but they couldnt mould those elements because it doesnt have enhancement. The enhancement was "Chakra".

Chakra has altered human body completely and now they can combine their Yin/Yang easily.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

I simply don't agree with your reasonning , for 2 reasons:

1/You state that ninjas use chakra (especially Kaguya's chakra) to built chakra.
Where in the manga is it stated that ninjas use chakra to built chakra?
And then , where is it stated that the chakra used is Kaguya's?
Even if it was the case , that wouldn't be a proof that this newly created chakra is Kaguya's.

2/If I take your hammer (chakra) to built another hammer from my wood (physical) and my steel (spirit) , this newly created hammer (chakra) will be my hammer , not yours!
What makes you think that you deserve to be the owner of the newly created hammer?


Your exemple over fuel and fire is out of this debate but interesting and debatable.


Stop saying what Kishimoto intended to do , you are not him , you believe , you are not sure , if you are sure , you are lying to yourself.



Lol , again , your answer still has no meaning...

Madara can state whatever he wants to , including mistakes.
My first post is still holding against all your confused posts and unnecessary scans , you look like a monkey in this debate compared to Sam.

I don't even.....

Are you absolutely reta****?

Okay then, I'll break this to you slowly.

Before Kaguya ate the fruit, there was no chakra at all, as it all lied within the Chakra Fruit. Kaguya after eating the fruit is the first person to have chakra (within that world as there are more Shinju's in the other dimensions) and Hagoromo was the first person born with chakra (Hamura is his younger twin, which means he is second).

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Kaguya's chakra is stated to disperse into Hagoromo and Hamura (their chakra is directly from her):
↓ The birth of Hagoromo and Hamura. Kaguya's chakra had become dispersed

You must be registered for see images

This is directly canon and is stated in both the Manga and Databook.

Still with me?

Next up, is that Hagoromo spreads chakra across the world....

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This same chakra is called Kaguya's chakra:

'Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra.' And by logic, considering Hagoromo's chakra is Kaguya's, and he spreads it through the world, obviously that same chakra equates to Kaguya's.

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'Progenitor of all chakra.'

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All chakra 'here' is stated to be the Shinju's (Kaguya's).

You must be registered for see images

Kaguya says chakra is only hers. Then she states she'll blend chakra into one once again.

You must be registered for see images

Sentence structure and logic dictates that she's saying all chakra originally lied together in one, and that she's trying to achieve this once more. Of course you'll probably deny this without a single Manga scan or Databook entry backing you up as is your habit.

Smh, you're the only one with confused posts here, and nothing of yours is holding up against mine.

 

[davidou]

I don't even.....

Are you absolutely retarded?

Okay then, I'll break this to you slowly.

Before Kaguya ate the fruit, there was no chakra at all, as it all lied within the Chakra Fruit. Kaguya after eating the fruit is the first person to have chakra (within that world as there are more Shinju's in the other dimensions) and Hagoromo was the first person born with chakra (Hamura is his younger twin, which means he is second).

You must be registered for see images

Kaguya's chakra is stated to disperse into Hagoromo and Hamura (their chakra is directly from her):
↓ The birth of Hagoromo and Hamura. Kaguya's chakra had become dispersed

You must be registered for see images

This is directly canon and is stated in both the Manga and Databook.

Still with me?

Next up, is that Hagoromo spreads chakra across the world....

You must be registered for see images

This same chakra is called Kaguya's chakra:

'Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra.' And by logic, considering Hagoromo's chakra is Kaguya's, and he spreads it through the world, obviously that same chakra equates to Kaguya's.

You must be registered for see images

'Progenitor of all chakra.'

You must be registered for see images

All chakra 'here' is stated to be the Shinju's (Kaguya's).

You must be registered for see images

Kaguya says chakra is only hers. Then she states she'll blend chakra into one once again.

You must be registered for see images

Sentence structure and logic dictates that she's saying all chakra originally lied together in one, and that she's trying to achieve this once more. Of course you'll probably deny this without a single Manga scan or Databook entry backing you up as is your habit.

Smh, you're the only one with confused posts here, and nothing of yours is holding up against mine.

You still can't answer the question , the fact that you are running away from that question makes you the loser...

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

You still can't answer the question , the fact that you are running away from that question makes you the loser...

What question? And I don't need to answer any question of yours, just read the Manga, it's right there.
If I wrote a book, and said all Magic comes from a Monkey, than it bloody well came from that ****ing monkey, even if their Magic refills and logic makes it not make sense. What the author says goes.

Your concession is accepted as obviously you don't have a counter, besides your ridiculous aptitude for ignoring direct Manga statements, scans and Databook entries.

 

[davidou]

What question? And I don't need to answer any question of yours, just read the Manga, it's right there.
If I wrote a book, and said all Magic comes from a Monkey, than it bloody well came from that ****ing monkey, even if their Magic refills and logic makes it not make sense. What the author says goes.

Your concession is accepted as obviously you don't have a counter, besides your ridiculous aptitude for ignoring direct Manga statements, scans and Databook entries.

, you have memory problems...
Eat fish

Kaguya BZ , Madara or Hagoromo aren't the authors...

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

, you have memory problems...
Eat fish

Kaguya BZ , Madara or Hagoromo aren't the authors...

.............................................

Are you an absolute ret**d? That's all you can reply with?????

No I don't, I'm just joking with you. Anyway, your question is irrelevant as the Manga is canon and statements in the Manga is canon, even more so when backed up by the Databook.
Concession accepted as you still don't have an argument....do I have to repost the same post again so it gets into your head?
No, but the Databook is written by the author and is his words, so is the Manga, and he states the same thing through his characters. Author's in Manga's have a tendency to state things through their characters as well. These same statements as they are not contradicted, are canon.

 

[MAN OF SIN]

She sucked because of Kishi's piss poor writing.

 

[davidou]

.............................................

Are you an absolute retard? That's all you can reply with?????

No I don't, I'm just joking with you. Anyway, your question is irrelevant as the Manga is canon and statements in the Manga is canon, even more so when backed up by the Databook.
Concession accepted as you still don't have an argument....do I have to repost the same post again so it gets into your head?
No, but the Databook is written by the author and is his words, so is the Manga, and he states the same thing through his characters. Author's in Manga's have a tendency to state things through their characters as well. These same statements as they are not contradicted, are canon.

That's all you are doing , from the beginning.
And...My question still has no answer...

The point you post same statement for Sam to me? Out of argument?

Everytime Shinobi using Ninjutsu they used un-moulded chakra. That un-moulded chakra was Kaguya's dispersed chakra that was passed down for century long.

"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (身体エネルギー, shintai enerugī) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (精神エネルギー, seishin enerugī, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience. These two energies becoming more powerful will in turn make the created chakra more powerful. Therefore, practising a technique repeatedly will build up experience, increasing one's spiritual energy, and thus allowing more chakra to be created. As a result, the ninja is able to do that same technique with more power. This same cycle applies for physical energy, except the ninja needs to increase their endurance instead."

What stated above was similar to what stated by Kakashi in manga but BZ, Hago and Kaguya knew more than him.

What Kakashi told to Naruto was how to created a ninjutsu and not raw chakra. Without chakra Shinobi couldnt mold their Ýin and Yang together. Inside Yin and Yang were human nature element reside.

Long time ago before human received chakra, they already had Yin/Yang elements inside their body but they couldnt mould those elements because it doesnt have enhancement. The enhancement was "Chakra".

Chakra has altered human body completely and now they can combine their Yin/Yang easily.

That's an interesting theory that clearly answers my question :bouncy: , it has been long , as it says that what almost every character call "chakra" isn't chakra.
When they say "create chakra" , they mean "create some energy via chakra"
When they say :"I'm out of chakra" , they would just be out of stamina.
The chakra cloak would be an ebergy cloak but not a chakra cloak , what every character call "chakra" would be something that is not chakra.

Where does this theory comes from?Do you have a link?I'm not going to believe you like that , I mean like Madara with the tablet.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

That's all you are doing , from the beginning.
And...My question still has no answer...

Do I have to repost every post of mine for you to see the difference in them?

You're so expectant for an answer aren't you? Sorry, but I don't need to answer your stupendously idiotic question, all I need to do is post Manga scans that state exactly what I'm telling you. It's your own ret**ded idiocy that is making you ignore it. Just as always, you never listen.

I'm pretty much done with treating you as if you have some valid comprehension, as clearly you don't. You can't even structure a sentence properly. 0__0

 

[davidou]

Do I have to repost every post of mine for you to see the difference in them?

You're so expectant for an answer aren't you?

No , but I won't be shocked if you do it , considering the pertinence of your previous posts.

I got it , but not from you.

Sorry, but I don't need to answer your stupendously idiotic question, all I need to do is post Manga scans that state exactly what I'm telling you. It's your own retarded idiocy that is making you ignore it. Just as always, you never listen.

You are admitting (probably unconsciously) that you are running away from the debate...Bad move.

I'm pretty much done with treating you as if you have some valid comprehension, as clearly you don't. You can't even structure a sentence properly. 0__0

You are the one that don't listen , or don't understand , that's a long time I understood that and it's too easy to irritate your closed mind knowing that.
I'm glad to see that it's not the end of your humoristic show.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

No , but I won't be shocked if you do it , considering the pertinence of your previous posts.

I got it , but not from you.

Uhahhahha, right.....

I gave a nod in Sam's direction with his answer...and said my own part, don't know about you, but I've been over this already.

You are admitting (probably unconsciously) that you are running away from the debate...Bad move.

No, rather that I don't have to answer your rather stupid question as the Manga directly calls that recharged chakra Kaguya's. A wish to not answer isn't the same as running away, just that I don't need to give an answer in place of the Manga.

You are the one that don't listen , or don't understand , that's a long time I understood that and it's too easy to irritate your closed mind knowing that.
I'm glad to see that it's not the end of your humoristic show.

Says I'm the one that doesn't listen, yet ignores Manga scans and Databook entries....
I might just have to repost the other one from before just for it to settle in.


This reta** is for the realz!

 

[ROHAN]

Wow, why can't you guys discuss without throwing insults at each other ? :lol You do know that if a mod sees this, you all will get some tasty infractions ? :lol

Anyways back on topic, I take back my statement made before :-

As to how Kuruma can build Chakra when he is empty, it's done by conversion of Energy.

You cannot create Chakra by conversion of Energy if you don't have any Chakra left. In this case, you will have to borrow chakra from other sources in order to recharge your chakra. Logically, you would never run out of chakra as the energy chakra conversion is continuous.

Also, the newly created chakra will be Kaguya's as it was her chakra which led to the creation of the new chakra. Kaguya is basically the origin of Chakra.

When they say :"I'm out of chakra"

I think over time, this chakra energy genetically fused with humans and it become a vital ingredient for survival. So, in the beginning, Chakra was not essential for survival, but over time it became so. It explains how humans die when they run out of chakra.

 

[davidou]

Wow, why can't you guys discuss without throwing insults at each other ? :lol You do know that if a mod sees this, you all will get some tasty infractions ? :lol

Anyways back on topic, I take back my statement made before :-



You cannot create Chakra by conversion of Energy if you don't have any Chakra left. In this case, you will have to borrow chakra from other sources in order to recharge your chakra. Logically, you would never run out of chakra as the energy chakra conversion is continuous.

Also, the newly created chakra will be Kaguya's as it was her chakra which led to the creation of the new chakra. Kaguya is basically the origin of Chakra.



I think over time, this chakra energy genetically fused with humans and it become a vital ingredient for survival. So, in the beginning, Chakra was not essential for survival, but over time it became so. It explains how humans die when they run out of chakra.

He is the one throwing insults while running away
I'm fine with my attitude with the guy that doesn't listen anything.


If you call chakra the energy created by conversion by the use of Kaguya's chakra , then I don't agree with your reasonning for the reason 2 posted earlier.Shall I repeat?
You say , "you have to borrow chakra from other sources" meaning that Kaguya isn't the only source of chakra , meaning that your conclusion counters your reasonning...

Your post is so much ambiguous , that it looks like that it's not clear in your mind as well.
Please , take time to elaborate your post , so that it will be understandable.

Your theory has a meaning only if what almost every character call chakra , isn't chakra.
That's what I understood from azeleon's theory.

Uhahhahha, right.....

I gave a nod in Sam's direction with his answer...and said my own part, don't know about you, but I've been over this already.





No, rather that I don't have to answer your rather stupid question as the Manga directly calls that recharged chakra Kaguya's. A wish to not answer isn't the same as running away, just that I don't need to give an answer in place of the Manga.




Says I'm the one that doesn't listen, yet ignores Manga scans and Databook entries....
I might just have to repost the other one from before just for it to settle in.


This retard is for the realz!

You can't understand it but you are owned , I am playing with your closed mind.
You exactly came where I wanted you to come , you humiliated yourself with your attitude of running away while throwing insults.