Kaguya Ōtsutsuki - The Mother of Chakra... Was kinda Disappointing.

[Lord of Akatsuki]

What a silly topic, of course Kaguya lost and its not because of power, she didn't lack anything in that department. It was her skill, to put it mildly she sucked. Chakra can't be "lost" you misinterpret what she was meaning, it wasn't a literal statement of "that's my chakra" it was a declaration of ownership of ALL chakra regardless of where it came from. Her strength comes from the combined tailed beasts by no means was her power reduced by breeding. The only direct chakra she perhaps ever lost was when Hagaromo and Hamura were born from her, and even that is arguable. The rest was used to create the tailed beasts, she was as strong now as she was back then.

Take what Naruto said during their battle, she knew nothing of the history of ninja. Aka what he was meaning wasn't just the fact she didn't know of their troubles or trials, she had no idea what she was up against. Her mind was dull and her skills weak, she was up against two of the strongest most skilled ninja of the era.

Its no surprise that they ate her alive even with all her power, she simply had no idea how to use it. An untrained princess with all the power of the world....impressive but still an untrained civilian with immense power. Against two finely tuned warriors even with weaker powers she was simply out classed, she also lacked the will to win.

I don't even.

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Databook.
"Ninshu, the power that linked individuals, became obsolete. Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra, brought back the turbulent times and wielded ninjutsu as a weapon..."

From the moment they assumed humanoid form, mankind had walked a world of strife waging war against one another. The ground was stained with blood, and as if drinking it in, the Divine Tree took root in the earth. In time, the Divine Tree bore a single fruit, and a clan migrated from another world in search of it. They were the Otsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Otsutsuki, ate the Divine Tree's fruit and became the originator of chakra, and with that tremendous power subdued the world in the blink of an eye.

Ohtsutsuki Kaguya had brought an end to the turbulent times. Dubbed the Rabbit Goddess, she received the blessings of the people and gave birth to twins.

↓ The birth of Hagoromo and Hamura. Kaguya's chakra had become dispersed.

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Kaguya's desire eventually turned on Hagoromo and Hamura, her own twin sons with whom she had split her chakra. Kaguya formed a plan, and in order to take in all chakra, fused with the Shinju and battled against her twin sons.

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Manga scan states Hagoromo's chakra is her's, and the next that Hagoromo spread it through the world via Ninshu.

Don't know about you but both the Manga and Databook are clear about this.

She still didn't have all of her power and the world's chakra is her power.

 

[BlacLord™]

Well yeah, obviously.

People shouldnt forget that the sheer volume of her chakra was way beyond what Madara could handle, or even had as Juubi Jin. On top of that, Team 7 and the world would be finished now if they didn't have Hagoromo and Hamura's fūinjutsu - and that's despite her being so weakened.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

Well yeah, obviously.

People shouldnt forget that the sheer volume of her chakra was way beyond what Madara could handle, or even had as Juubi Jin. On top of that, Team 7 and the world would be finished now if they didn't have Hagoromo and Hamura's fūinjutsu - and that's despite her being so weakened.

@ Bold, where are you getting that from? The Manga directly stated it was Hagoromo's Jutsu and made no mention of Hamura, the seals also return to their owner once used, and considering that Hagoromo's the only one with them and that they returned to him straight after they were used, and that they're the Six Paths seals, which is his namesake (Not Hamura's) and all the terms of 'Six Paths' with it......

I agree with the rest.

 

[valandil988]

Hagaromo shared his chakra, Kaguya didn't split her chakra evenly (If she did she wouldn't exist), that's just plain stupid. Hags and his brother gained a direct (small) portion of that primal chakra, that's what made them so absurdly powerful. Hags then used HIS chakra with his ninshuu idea, a small tiny portion of his own chakra (That was easily recreated like all ninja can do, aka it wasn't lost). Kaguya was the centre point, the origin. Without her chakra wouldn't have made it into the human population.

Obviously Kaguya's chakra wasn't dispersed (what utter rubbish), it was used to make the tailed beasts. Pretty basic man, do you really think Hags was going to pass around such volatile chakra to random people? No he used his own much more "human" chakra and passed that out.

You are also totally misinterpreting how chakra works, the original tiny piece that Hags granted was used to link both spiritual and physical power within their bodies. The chakra they have overall is their own, the initial driving force was granted by Hags which then became self-perpetuating down through the generations. The chakra average ninja use is not at all like "six paths chakra" aka its not even remotely like Kaguya's chakra.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

Hagaromo shared his chakra, Kaguya didn't split her chakra evenly (If she did she wouldn't exist), that's just plain stupid. Hags and his brother gained a direct (small) portion of that primal chakra, that's what made them so absurdly powerful. Hags then used HIS chakra with his ninshuu idea, a small tiny portion of his own chakra (That was easily recreated like all ninja can do, aka it wasn't lost). Kaguya was the centre point, the origin. Without her chakra wouldn't have made it into the human population.

Obviously Kaguya's chakra wasn't dispersed (what utter rubbish), it was used to make the tailed beasts. Pretty basic man, do you really think Hags was going to pass around such volatile chakra to random people? No he used his own much more "human" chakra and passed that out.

You are also totally misinterpreting how chakra works, the original tiny piece that Hags granted was used to link both spiritual and physical power within their bodies. The chakra they have overall is their own, the initial driving force was granted by Hags which then became self-perpetuating down through the generations. The chakra average ninja use is not at all like "six paths chakra" aka its not even remotely like Kaguya's chakra.

I never said Kaguya split her chakra evenly, rather that some of her chakra left her and went into her children. Please note the Manga states all chakra was originally hers. As is the full might of Hagoromo and Hamura.

Indeed, Hagoromo spread chakra throughout the world, which was directly called Kaguya's chakra in the Databook.

Meaning of dispersed:

Distribute or spread over a wide area.
"Sstorms can disperse seeds via high altitudes"
Go or cause to go in different directions.

Some of her chakra was distributed, which is the direct meaning of dispersed, so yes indeed, her chakra WAS dispersed. The Manga says so and so does the Databook.
I mean ****ing hell, it's stated right here man, are you blind?

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And Databook entries:

"Ninshu, the power that linked individuals, became obsolete. Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra, brought back the turbulent times and wielded ninjutsu as a weapon..."

From the moment they assumed humanoid form, mankind had walked a world of strife waging war against one another. The ground was stained with blood, and as if drinking it in, the Divine Tree took root in the earth. In time, the Divine Tree bore a single fruit, and a clan migrated from another world in search of it. They were the Otsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Otsutsuki, ate the Divine Tree's fruit and became the originator of chakra, and with that tremendous power subdued the world in the blink of an eye.

Ohtsutsuki Kaguya had brought an end to the turbulent times. Dubbed the Rabbit Goddess, she received the blessings of the people and gave birth to twins.

↓ The birth of Hagoromo and Hamura. Kaguya's chakra had become dispersed.

It was all Kaguya's chakra, Hagoromo originally linked all individuals together to himself.
If the chakra they had was their own, then why is it explicitly called Kaguya's own?

No, what Ninshu really did was link all peoples in the world together, just as this san says and the Databook.

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Databook: "Ninshu, the power that linked individuals, became obsolete."
It was only when Indra created Ninjutsu that the power Hagoromo wrought through the world was used for Mental and Physical energies.

With Databook scans and Manga scans in front of you I'm shocked that you can deny it.

 

[Team7Represent]

LoA the incomprehension is real

 

[davidou]

I never said Kaguya split her chakra evenly, rather that some of her chakra left her and went into her children. Please note the Manga states all chakra was originally hers. As is the full might of Hagoromo and Hamura.

Indeed, Hagoromo spread chakra throughout the world, which was directly called Kaguya's chakra in the Databook.

Meaning of dispersed:


Some of her chakra was distributed, which is the direct meaning of dispersed, so yes indeed, her chakra WAS dispersed. The Manga says so and so does the Databook.
I mean ****ing hell, it's stated right here man, are you blind?

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And Databook entries:

"Ninshu, the power that linked individuals, became obsolete. Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra, brought back the turbulent times and wielded ninjutsu as a weapon..."

From the moment they assumed humanoid form, mankind had walked a world of strife waging war against one another. The ground was stained with blood, and as if drinking it in, the Divine Tree took root in the earth. In time, the Divine Tree bore a single fruit, and a clan migrated from another world in search of it. They were the Otsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Otsutsuki, ate the Divine Tree's fruit and became the originator of chakra, and with that tremendous power subdued the world in the blink of an eye.

Ohtsutsuki Kaguya had brought an end to the turbulent times. Dubbed the Rabbit Goddess, she received the blessings of the people and gave birth to twins.

↓ The birth of Hagoromo and Hamura. Kaguya's chakra had become dispersed.

It was all Kaguya's chakra, Hagoromo originally linked all individuals together to himself.
If the chakra they had was their own, then why is it explicitly called Kaguya's own?

No, what Ninshu really did was link all peoples in the world together, just as this san says and the Databook.

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Databook: "Ninshu, the power that linked individuals, became obsolete."
It was only when Indra created Ninjutsu that the power Hagoromo wrought through the world was used for Mental and Physical energies.

With Databook scans and Manga scans in front of you I'm shocked that you can deny it.

Just one question:

When Kurama , Naruto or any ninja recover chakra , do they ask Kaguya to give them some?

You may need to reread the very first chapters of the manga that are talking about spiritual energy and physical energy and the mix of both.

You may start to understand that you don't see the things clearly.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

Just one question:

When Kurama , Naruto or any ninja recover chakra , does they ask Kaguya to give them some?

You may need to reread the very first chapters of the manga that are talking about spiritual energy and physical energy and the mix of both.

You may start to understand that you don't see the things clearly.

No, they don't need to ask Kaguya for chakra, as her chakra is already within them. That chakra came from Hagoromo, who put it there by linking everyone together.

No I don't considering Kishi retcon's shit left and right. What matters is the most recent statements, and the recent ones directly state that the worlds chakra is Kaguya's.

If I wish to be rude I can just literally repost the exact same scans and Databook scans continuously, as so far you have nothing to debunk them, I'm not arrogant to believe I'm wholly undebunkable, so I'm right here, waiting.

So here's another scan instead.

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As you can see, instead of using Ninshu and connecting themselves all together, they changed it to Indra's teachings, Ninjutsu and used it to connect their Mental and Physical Energies together. Humans didn't originally have chakra coils or a chakra network, yet suddenly they did, what does this mean I wonder.....?

Not only that, but its stated ALL chakra originates form Kaguya, and that her chakra was dispersed throughout the world. And mankind was stated to be endowed with her chakra, please just read what is stated in the Manga, because it's right there and directly stated.

 

[ROHAN]

No, they don't need to ask Kaguya for chakra, as her chakra is already within them. That chakra came from Hagoromo, who put it there by linking everyone together.

No I don't considering Kishi retcon's shit left and right. What matters is the most recent statements, and the recent ones directly state that the worlds chakra is Kaguya's.

If I wish to be rude I can just literally repost the exact same scans and Databook scans continuously, as so far you have nothing to debunk them, I'm not arrogant to believe I'm wholly undebunkable, so I'm right here, waiting.

So here's another scan instead.

Spoiler

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As you can see, instead of using Ninshu and connecting themselves all together, they changed it to Indra's teachings, Ninjutsu and used it to connect their Mental and Physical Energies together. Humans didn't originally have chakra coils or a chakra network, yet suddenly they did, what does this mean I wonder.....?

Not only that, but its stated ALL chakra originates form Kaguya, and that her chakra was dispersed throughout the world. And mankind was stated to be endowed with her chakra, please just read what is stated in the Manga, because it's right there and directly stated.

I think what you have posted is the Viz scan right ?

In part 1, the basic knowledge that we had was that Chakra = Mental Energy + Physical Energy. However when we came to know the reality of chakra, the revelation that came was that Chakra can never be created by combining Mental Energy + Physical Energy.

What supports this statement is what Madara says (He got it from the Uchiha Tablet, which was corrupted by Black Zetsu, the will of Kaguya. You may say it puts all the information in question, but I think the major parts were completely accurate. Since the description was given by Black Zetsu/Kaguya, the Proginator of Chakra, it will be 100% true).

The first statement of Madara tells us that Chakra was used as a medium to connect Mental and Physical Energies. This tells us that Chakra was a foreign energy source from the beginning.

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The second statement of Madara tells how Mental + Physical Energy was used to Amplify/Enhance the chakra within them. This tells us that Mental + Physical Energy amplifies Chakra but does not create it. Over the ages, I think it was misinterpreted as Mental + Physical = Chakra.

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The Chakra is a completely Foreign Energy Source which originated from the Chakra fruit of the God Tree and was eventually spread throughout humanity after which it was enhanced by combining Physical + Mental Energies.

What supports this even further is Madara's statements as how "All Chakra belonged to the God Tree Originally" and "Mankind stole Chakra from the God Tree". Chakra was a completely different Energy Source. It was neither Physical, Mental or Natural Energy.

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As to why the misconception that Chakra = Physical + Mental Energies arose, the answer is given by Madara very well.

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[Lord of Akatsuki]

I think what you have posted is the Viz scan right ?

In part 1, the basic knowledge that we had was that Chakra = Mental Energy + Physical Energy. However when we came to know the reality of chakra, the revelation that came was that Chakra can never be created by combining Mental Energy + Physical Energy.

What supports this statement is what Madara says (He got it from the Uchiha Tablet, which was corrupted by Black Zetsu, the will of Kaguya. You may say it puts all the information in question, but I think the major parts were completely accurate. Since the description was given by Black Zetsu/Kaguya, the Proginator of Chakra, it will be 100% true).

The first statement of Madara tells us that Chakra was used as a medium to connect Mental and Physical Energies. This tells us that Chakra was a foreign energy source from the beginning.

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The second statement of Madara tells how Mental + Physical Energy was used to Amplify/Enhance the chakra within them. This tells us that Mental + Physical Energy amplifies Chakra but does not create it. Over the ages, I think it was misinterpreted as Mental + Physical = Chakra.

You must be registered for see images

The Chakra is a completely Foreign Energy Source which originated from the Chakra fruit of the God Tree and was eventually spread throughout humanity after which it was enhanced by combining Physical + Mental Energies.

What supports this even further is Madara's statements as how "All Chakra belonged to the God Tree Originally" and "Mankind stole Chakra from the God Tree". Chakra was a completely different Energy Source. It was neither Physical, Mental or Natural Energy.

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As to why the misconception that Chakra = Physical + Mental Energies arose, the answer is given by Madara very well.

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Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a Viz scan.

No, in Part 1 whenever they mentioned it was when they were talking about Ninjutsu, which was formed from Mental and Physical Energy linked together unless I'm mistaken.

If you look at the sentence 'Time after time, people used chakra not to connect with others, but only to link the Mental and Physical Energies within', and take the context of the statement at face value, it implies that the linking of Mental and Physical Energies could have been done before. However that the intention for chakra was to link everyone in the world together.

I wouldn't fall back on that, though if you replaced God Tree with Kaguya than you'd be golden I guess, there's nothing to support that it's accurate though.
Please note that the existence of Six Paths chakra (called Yin-Yang and Six Paths in the Databook), kinda shows that chakra can also be simply Mental and Physical. Also note that Kaguya absorbed chakra, both Mental and Physical from everyone, yet she called it all her own (and it was stated that when the people used chakra for Ninjutsu, that it was the same way Kaguya had employed it), and the Databook agrees.
The entire chakra network originates from when Hagoromo brought Ninshu to the world, as they didn't have any chakra or power beforehand.

Thanks for the reply, friend. I hope we can have a fun debate if its needed!

 

[davidou]

No, they don't need to ask Kaguya for chakra, as her chakra is already within them. That chakra came from Hagoromo, who put it there by linking everyone together.

No I don't considering Kishi retcon's shit left and right. What matters is the most recent statements, and the recent ones directly state that the worlds chakra is Kaguya's.

If I wish to be rude I can just literally repost the exact same scans and Databook scans continuously, as so far you have nothing to debunk them, I'm not arrogant to believe I'm wholly undebunkable, so I'm right here, waiting.

So here's another scan instead.

You must be registered for see images

As you can see, instead of using Ninshu and connecting themselves all together, they changed it to Indra's teachings, Ninjutsu and used it to connect their Mental and Physical Energies together. Humans didn't originally have chakra coils or a chakra network, yet suddenly they did, what does this mean I wonder.....?

Not only that, but its stated ALL chakra originates form Kaguya, and that her chakra was dispersed throughout the world. And mankind was stated to be endowed with her chakra, please just read what is stated in the Manga, because it's right there and directly stated.

Lol , your answer is so funny :"When they have no chakra left , they have chakra within them".
That's an interesting way of thinking , I'll weight your words now.

You are misreading and misinterpreting few scans and you are focusing on those scans.
You should try to connect all the scans together to have a better understanding of the story.

The manga never stated that all the chakra that was used during 1000 years was Kaguya's.
You are lying to yourself and the fact that you don't give clear proofs starts to bore me.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

Lol , your answer is so funny :"When they have no chakra left , they have chakra within them".
That's an interesting way of thinking , I'll weight your words now.

You are misreading and misinterpreting few scans and you are focusing on those scans.
You should try to connect all the scans together to have a better understanding of the story.

The manga never stated that all the chakra that was used during 1000 years was Kaguya's.
You are lying to yourself and the fact that you don't give clear proofs starts to bore me.

Proof where I ever stated that. :hyper: I'm right here, waiting.


No, I'm directly listening to the exact statements in the Manga, your just ignoring them. I can bring more to the table, but I don't need to, as you have nothing to debunk me.

Yet Kaguya calls all chakra hers and Zetsu states the same thing; and its stated all the chakra in the world is the Juubi's and Kaguya's.....

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Replace God Tree with Kaguya and you have the current Manga canon.

You're the one lying here, and now I'm all fired up waiting to see if you have any proof to directly go against Manga and Databook statements.

Methinks I rustled some of them jimmies.

 

[ROHAN]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a Viz scan.

No, in Part 1 whenever they mentioned it was when they were talking about Ninjutsu, which was formed from Mental and Physical Energy linked together unless I'm mistaken.

If you look at the sentence 'Time after time, people used chakra not to connect with others, but only to link the Mental and Physical Energies within', and take the context of the statement at face value, it implies that the linking of Mental and Physical Energies could have been done before. However that the intention for chakra was to link everyone in the world together.

I wouldn't fall back on that, though if you replaced God Tree with Kaguya than you'd be golden I guess, there's nothing to support that it's accurate though.
Please note that the existence of Six Paths chakra (called Yin-Yang and Six Paths in the Databook), kinda shows that chakra can also be simply Mental and Physical. Also note that Kaguya absorbed chakra, both Mental and Physical from everyone, yet she called it all her own (and it was stated that when the people used chakra for Ninjutsu, that it was the same way Kaguya had employed it), and the Databook agrees.
The entire chakra network originates from when Hagoromo brought Ninshu to the world, as they didn't have any chakra or power beforehand.

Thanks for the reply, friend. I hope we can have a fun debate if its needed!

Bold : No, It talks about chakra specifically.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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In Part 1, the baseline assumption that we got was that Chakra = Physical Energy + Spiritual/Mental Energy. (Please note though that Spiritual and Mental are interchangeable terms and mean the same so that you don't get confused).

In Part 2, when we came to know the Truth of Chakra during the Pre-Kaguya Arc which included :-

Chakra was a completely different Energy Source stolen by Mankind from the God Tree.

Spoiler

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All Chakra in the world originated from the God Tree's fruit.

Spoiler

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This Chakra fruit was eaten by Kaguya.

Spoiler

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Kaguya was the first human to wield the "Holy Power Of Chakra". (Actually it should be Alien, but perhaps Black Zetsu restricted that information to ensure Madara didn't know much).

Spoiler

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This chakra passed down to Hagoromo and Hamura from Kaguya genetically. (It was a huge portion of Kaguya's chakra as SDO said, otherwise Kaguya had no reason to go mad and try to reclaim it at such dire costs, i.e; trying to kill her sons + Massive amounts of Hate towards them).

Spoiler

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Hagoromo (Here Six Paths refers to Hagoromo) uses his portion of chakra and spreads it to all of Humanity through Ninshuu.

Spoiler

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This chakra was used not to connect people's hearts (The Original Purpose of Hagoromo giving humanity Chakra) but was used to connect Physical and Mental/Spiritual Energies already residing in humanity.

Spoiler

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The connection of Physical and Mental/Spiritual Energies through Chakra (The Third Power) amplified/enhanced chakra to be used as a Weapon for War.

Spoiler

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Over the ages after Kaguya's fall; since all the Three Energies; namely Physical Energy, Mental/Spiritual Energy and Chakra were so closely related to each other, a misconception arose that Physical Energy + Mental/Spiritual Energy = Chakra. The reality was the Opposite. It was Chakra that allowed Mental/Spiritual and Physical Energies to fuse.

This was all a misconception,

Spoiler

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Which happened due to the gradual flow of time as said by Madara.

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The information that Madara got was not only backed up by Hagoromo, but it came from the Uchiha Stone Tablet which was corrupted by Black Zetsu, the will Of Kaguya. Since, Kaguya's conscience herself wrote all the information about Chakra and had no reason to write lies (So that Madara loses Faith in Humanity and goes forward with Mugen Tsukuyomi); the information coming from the source of everything will be 100% accurate.

Spoiler

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I hope this helps.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

Bold : No, It talks about chakra specifically.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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In Part 1, the baseline assumption that we got was that Chakra = Physical Energy + Spiritual/Mental Energy. (Please note though that Spiritual and Mental are interchangeable terms and mean the same so that you don't get confused).

In Part 2, when we came to know the Truth of Chakra during the Pre-Kaguya Arc which included :-

Chakra was a completely different Energy Source stolen by Mankind from the God Tree.

Spoiler

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All Chakra in the world originated from the God Tree's fruit.

Spoiler

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This Chakra fruit was eaten by Kaguya.

Spoiler

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Kaguya was the first human to wield the "Holy Power Of Chakra". (Actually it should be Alien, but perhaps Black Zetsu restricted that information to ensure Madara didn't know much).

Spoiler

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This chakra passed down to Hagoromo and Hamura from Kaguya genetically. (It was a huge portion of Kaguya's chakra as SDO said, otherwise Kaguya had no reason to go mad and try to reclaim it at such dire costs, i.e; trying to kill her sons + Massive amounts of Hate towards them).

Spoiler

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Hagoromo (Here Six Paths refers to Hagoromo) uses his portion of chakra and spreads it to all of Humanity through Ninshuu.

Spoiler

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This chakra was used not to connect people's hearts (The Original Purpose of Hagoromo giving humanity Chakra) but was used to connect Physical and Mental/Spiritual Energies already residing in humanity.

Spoiler

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The connection of Physical and Mental/Spiritual Energies through Chakra (The Third Power) amplified/enhanced chakra to be used as a Weapon for War.

Spoiler

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Over the ages after Kaguya's fall; since all the Three Energies; namely Physical Energy, Mental/Spiritual Energy and Chakra were so closely related to each other, a misconception arose that Physical Energy + Mental/Spiritual Energy = Chakra. The reality was the Opposite. It was Chakra that allowed Mental/Spiritual and Physical Energies to fuse.

This was all a misconception,

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Which happened due to the gradual flow of time as said by Madara.

Spoiler

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The information that Madara got was not only backed up by Hagoromo, but it came from the Uchiha Stone Tablet which was corrupted by Black Zetsu, the will Of Kaguya. Since, Kaguya's conscience herself wrote all the information about Chakra and had no reason to write lies (So that Madara loses Faith in Humanity and goes forward with Mugen Tsukuyomi); the information coming from the source of everything will be 100% accurate.

Spoiler

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I hope this helps.

A nice read friend, and I indeed was wrong about the Part 1 part. However, I digress, there is some few holes in it that don't add up, but it's Kishi I guess.

The first is Six Paths chakra, which is interchangeably used with the term Yin-Yang chakra; which is Mental and Physical Energies. This is Hagoromo's power that was passed down to him from his mother, though it can be noted as being distinct to himself. If chakra was a distinct energy on its own why is it called chakra even though its Mental and Physical powers?

And the second is that Kaguya absorbed the chakra from almost everyone in the world, Mental and Physical Energies and all, yet that too was called her own.


As for the Zetsu part, please note he altered the entire stone tablet so he could corrupt Indra's descendants, and we know it isn't 100 percent accurate, as some events were wrongly told. However, most of it is still accurate at its centre, so I think its still usable.

 

[ROHAN]

A nice read friend, and I indeed was wrong about the Part 1 part. However, I digress, there is some few holes in it that don't add up, but it's Kishi I guess.

The first is Six Paths chakra, which is interchangeably used with the term Yin-Yang chakra; which is Mental and Physical Energies. This is Hagoromo's power that was passed down to him from his mother, though it can be noted as being distinct to himself. If chakra was a distinct energy on its own why is it called chakra even though its Mental and Physical powers?

I think Hagoromo and Hamura could hypothetically be Human/Alien hybrids. What Supports this is that Kaguya left her Home Dimension and came to Earth and then planted the God Tree. This meant that Kaguya got pregnant during her time on Earth and the only way that could be possible is through a Human (Remember Kaguya loved Humanity deeply, she ate the Fruit to preserve Humanity via stopping wars).

This would mean Hagoromo and Hamura by default had Physical (Yang) and Spiritual (Yin) Energies. The chakra given to them was altered and took two distinct identities - Yin Chakra and Yang Chakra. This also explains why Chakra got enhanced by the two energies when spread to Mankind, the source of the three energies mixing were Hagoromo and Hamura.

Or we could just assume that all beings in the whole realm of NV had Physical and Mental Energies.

And the second is that Kaguya absorbed the chakra from almost everyone in the world, Mental and Physical Energies and all, yet that too was called her own.

No, what she wanted to absorb was only Chakra, but since all three Energies (Chakra, Physical and Mental) were so heavily inter-related, they would have being absorbed by Kaguya anyways or the Physical and Mental Energies were converted over time into Chakra by the God Tree. (Remember Energy can be converted into different forms back and forth right. )

The conversion of all Physical and Mental Energies to Chakra via the God Tree causes Humans to become White Zetsus. The White Zetsu Transformation takes time because the Energy conversion process is not rapid.

Spoiler

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As for the Zetsu part, please note he altered the entire stone tablet so he could corrupt Indra's descendants, and we know it isn't 100 percent accurate, as some events were wrongly told. However, most of it is still accurate at its centre, so I think its still usable.

True, But I don't think Hagoromo would have included Kaguya's story in the Tablet. Doing so would have being counter-productive as Indra's descendants would have lusted for Kaguya's power. The only person who could have added her story was Kaguya/Black Zetsu in which case she being the source of chakra, the story is 100% true.

The Hagoromo spreading chakra via Ninshuu was confirmed by Hagoromo himself, so all the puzzle pieces fall in place.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

I think Hagoromo and Hamura could hypothetically be Human/Alien hybrids. What Supports this is that Kaguya left her Home Dimension and came to Earth and then planted the God Tree. This meant that Kaguya got pregnant during her time on Earth and the only way that could be possible is through a Human (Remember Kaguya loved Humanity deeply, she ate the Fruit to preserve Humanity via stopping wars).

This would mean Hagoromo and Hamura by default had Physical (Yang) and Spiritual (Yin) Energies. The chakra given to them was altered and took two distinct identities - Yin Chakra and Yang Chakra. This also explains why Chakra got enhanced by the two energies when spread to Mankind, the source of the three energies mixing were Hagoromo and Hamura.

Or we could just assume that all beings in the whole realm of NV had Physical and Mental Energies.

Did she plant it? I thought it was already there and that she just took its fruit that forms within every millennium? Also, Kaguya brought her clan with her, which means there were other aliens there.
As for the rest I can agree with it, but Kaguya also has Yin and Yang Energies formed into Yin-Yang.....
Which just makes it all terribly confusing.....
:dunno:
Dammit Kishi! I'm looking at you! Why did you have to make everything so confusing?

No, what she wanted to absorb was only Chakra, but since all three Energies (Chakra, Physical and Mental) were so heavily inter-related, they would have being absorbed by Kaguya anyways or the Physical and Mental Energies were converted over time into Chakra by the God Tree. (Remember Energy can be converted into different forms back and forth right. )

The conversion of all Physical and Mental Energies to Chakra via the God Tree causes Humans to become White Zetsus. The White Zetsu Transformation takes time because the Energy conversion process is not rapid.

Spoiler

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True, But I don't think Hagoromo would have included Kaguya's story in the Tablet. Doing so would have being counter-productive as Indra's descendants would have lusted for Kaguya's power. The only person who could have added her story was Kaguya/Black Zetsu in which case she being the source of chakra, the story is 100% true.

The Hagoromo spreading chakra via Ninshuu was confirmed by Hagoromo himself, so all the puzzle pieces fall in place.

Indeed, I never said she wanted to absorb anything else, just that when she absorbed the Mental and Physical Energies she called it hers. When the Shinju was absorbing chakra from people, it also absorbed Mental and Physical Energies, yet Madara said that it was merely trying to take back the chakra that was stolen. Doesn't that imply that Mental, Physical and Nature Energies are all connected and are all chakra?
Especially when you consider that a Juubi Jin immediately gains Yin-Yang chakra with Senjutsu mixed in upon becoming a Jin. And the Juubi is Kaguya plus Shinju..................................

@ Bold, that was never actually stated, but I could agree with that.

We have no idea what Zetsu corrupted, we just know certain events weren't there, like no Hamura, Kaguya not the originator etc. So it's more like 98% not full 100%, which would imply that the entire story is being told. But yes, I agree that it's still usable as most of what Madara said was confirmed by Hagoromo himself (not just the thing about Ninshu).

 

[davidou]

Proof where I ever stated that. :hyper: I'm right here, waiting.


No, I'm directly listening to the exact statements in the Manga, your just ignoring them. I can bring more to the table, but I don't need to, as you have nothing to debunk me.

Yet Kaguya calls all chakra hers and Zetsu states the same thing; and its stated all the chakra in the world is the Juubi's and Kaguya's.....

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Replace God Tree with Kaguya and you have the current Manga canon.

You're the one lying here, and now I'm all fired up waiting to see if you have any proof to directly go against Manga and Databook statements.

Methinks I rustled some of them jllimmies.

To the question "how does Kurama built some chakra when he is almost empty?" , you answered:

No, they don't need to ask Kaguya for chakra, as her chakra is already within them.

That's just a nonsense , I'm still waiting for a clear answer.

Madara's words are statements , only in your confused mind.
More you talk , more I weight your words.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

To the question "how does Kurama built some chakra when he is almost empty?" , you answered:

That's just a nonsense , I'm still waiting for a clear answer.

Madara's words are statements , only in your confused mind.
More you talk , more I weight your words.

No, I answered to 'When Kurama , Naruto or any ninja recover chakra , does they ask Kaguya to give them some?' and I answered 'No as her chakra is already in them'. Don't go twisting words around here.

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Madara directly states that all the chakra 'here' is the Shinju's (Kaguya). And this is Manga canon. Oh and:

'Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra'
You don't have anything to back up anything your saying, whereas I've got a bunch of Manga scans that are pretty direct with their statements.

Still got your jimmies rustled.

Don't worry, I'm going easy on you.

 

[ROHAN]

Did she plant it? I thought it was already there and that she just took its fruit that forms within every millennium? Also, Kaguya brought her clan with her, which means there were other aliens there.
As for the rest I can agree with it, but Kaguya also has Yin and Yang Energies formed into Yin-Yang.....
Which just makes it all terribly confusing.....
:dunno:
Dammit Kishi! I'm looking at you! Why did you have to make everything so confusing?

The Boruto Movie Novel states that Kaguya planted the God Tree on Earth to ensure her race (The other Otsutsukis) did not steal the God Tree's fruit. She came all alone, because she was shown to have acted all alone from then on. Who knows in that case, we can assume that Kaguya also had Physical and Mental Energies. Perhaps the Chakra reacted and took two different forms from then on : Yin and Yang Chakra.

Indeed, I never said she wanted to absorb anything else, just that when she absorbed the Mental and Physical Energies she called it hers. When the Shinju was absorbing chakra from people, it also absorbed Mental and Physical Energies, yet Madara said that it was merely trying to take back the chakra that was stolen. Doesn't that imply that Mental, Physical and Nature Energies are all connected and are all chakra?
Especially when you consider that a Juubi Jin immediately gains Yin-Yang chakra with Senjutsu mixed in upon becoming a Jin. And the Juubi is Kaguya plus Shinju..................................

@ Bold, that was never actually stated, but I could agree with that.

Kaguya always wanted Chakra, she never mentions absorbing Mental and Physical Energy. Even the chakra that Black Zetsu used to trigger the transformation of Madara to Kaguya was pure chakra. Kaguya had all four energies within her but what she specifically wanted was only chakra.

Yes, Physical , Mental, Natural and Chakra though being distinct are still heavily related. They are all forms of Energy and can be converted from one form to another.

Bold was just a theory I made to explain this.

To the question "how does Kurama built some chakra when he is almost empty?" , you answered:

That's just a nonsense , I'm still waiting for a clear answer.

Madara's words are statements , only in your confused mind.
More you talk , more I weight your words.

Kuruma was an entity created from Kaguya/Juubi. Kuruma is a huge mass of Chakra. Since Kaguya's will is not there (Cause it became Black Zetsu); Kuruma doesn't have to ask Kaguya for chakra. The same goes to Humans with Kaguya's dispersed chakra.

As to how Kuruma can build Chakra when he is empty, it's done by conversion of Energy.

Madara's statements were intended by the author to be taken as the truth. Most of his story was accurate expect for a few parts which was done for plot purposes. Also, Madara's statements are backed up by Hagoromo. so I think it's the truth.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

The Boruto Movie Novel states that Kaguya planted the God Tree on Earth to ensure her race (The other Otsutsukis) did not steal the God Tree's fruit. She came all alone, because she was shown to have acted all alone from then on. Who knows in that case, we can assume that Kaguya also had Physical and Mental Energies. Perhaps the Chakra reacted and took two different forms from then on : Yin and Yang Chakra.

Databook disagrees:

'From the moment they assumed humanoid form, mankind had walked a world of strife waging war against one another. The ground was stained with blood, and as if drinking it in, the Divine Tree took root in the earth. In time, the Divine Tree bore a single fruit, and a clan migrated from another world in search of it. They were the Otsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Otsutsuki, ate the Divine Tree's fruit and became the originator of chakra, and with that tremendous power subdued the world in the blink of an eye.

Ever since "humans" were given form, they have fought each other and walked in a world of war. The earth was stained with blood, and as if it were absorbing that blood for nourishment, the Shinju took root in the earth. Eventually the Shinju bore a single fruit, and a certain clan came from another world seeking that fruit: the Otsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Otsutsuki, ate the fruit and became the progenitor of all chakra, and with her absolute power brought peace to the world in an instant.'

The God Tree was stated to have been there from the beginning in the Manga right? Not only that but DB states that a clan migrated there with her, and Hamura took the Otsutsuki clan up to the Moon....
There's no way for this to have happened if they weren't with her.

@ Bold. Sure we can, but we don't need to assume it, as it was shown she had Yin and Yang. Which obviously means the worlds Natural Energy, Physical and Spiritual Chakra's all come from her, and its all called chakra. Which is my argument in the first place.

Kaguya always wanted Chakra, she never mentions absorbing Mental and Physical Energy. Even the chakra that Black Zetsu used to trigger the transformation of Madara to Kaguya was pure chakra. Kaguya had all four energies within her but what she specifically wanted was only chakra.

Yes, Physical , Mental, Natural and Chakra though being distinct are still heavily related. They are all forms of Energy and can be converted from one form to another.

Bold was just a theory I made to explain this.

Indeed, however she was also absorbing Mental and Physical chakra's and so was the Shinju tree way back when with Madara's monologuing. All of the energies are chakra, they're called chakra and thus are hers.

Kuruma was an entity created from Kaguya/Juubi. Kuruma is a huge mass of Chakra. Since Kaguya's will is not there (Cause it became Black Zetsu); Kuruma doesn't have to ask Kaguya for chakra. The same goes to Humans with Kaguya's dispersed chakra.

As to how Kuruma can build Chakra when he is empty, it's done by conversion of Energy.

Madara's statements were intended by the author to be taken as the truth. Most of his story was accurate expect for a few parts which was done for plot purposes. Also, Madara's statements are backed up by Hagoromo. so I think it's the truth.

Yep.