So, since I like this type of discussion, being less opinion based an all, and has a higher chance of civil discourse, I thought I would make a general thread regarding it. I realize that it's unlikely it will get many replies, since the manga is over, but I felt like getting some plot hole misconceptions of my chest.
So let's get to it. But first, the definition of the word:
Sasuke Great Snake Escape:
Refutation:
Kakashi should be blind, due to using MS multiple times
Refutation
How did Madara use Susanoo without an eye
Answer
Minato using summoning jutsu when he didn't have an arm
General confusion about Orochimaru and The four Hokage Edo Tensi
And a theory about Orochimaru in general relevant to this:
General things about Naruto sage of six path, Naruto flying, healing, etc:
Rinne Tensei
Why is Madara reanimated to his prime/Young age when he died old
Why is Madara able to use Kamui while Obito couldn't in the Juubi form
Fate of the Tailed Beast after the host dies
Well, that's the most common ones from what I remember.
So list the plot holes you think the series has. You can list asspulls as well:
So let's get to it. But first, the definition of the word:
Sasuke Great Snake Escape:
Refutation:
The argument that it's a plot hole or an asspull, stems from what I've seen, is that Sasuke didn't have enough chakra to summon Manda.
That is incorrect. There is no way for the reader to gauge how much chakra the character has left. That can only be known through two things.
A/ If the character himself stated it (i.e Kakashi state it a lot)
B/ If a sensory type user, can detect it.
In that fight, neither did Sasuke state he was running low on Chakra, nor was Deidara a sensory type user, or had a means to tell and gauge Sasuke's chakara. It was all speculations and guesses from Deidara's part.
In fact, Deidara already guessed and was proven wrong before the snake summon.
Another point of view suggests that Sasuke, was lacking in chakra, because he was exhausted. While severe lack of chakra can cause exhaustion and in some cases death (i.e Kakashi again lol), that doesn't mean exhaustion can only occur for that reason exclusively.
The fight in general tired Sasuke, and more importantly, Sasuke using Chidori on himself, to get rid of the nano bombs, took a physical toll on him, as stated by himself:
''Took a toll on me''
Using Chidori on himself, was Sasuke main reason for being exhausted, he did the same thing again on himself, when Deidara's snakes caught his legs, which led to him failing from fatigue, which Deidara mistakenly thought that it meant he no longer has any charkra left, making that his second wrong speculation/guess
And another proof, that Sasuke wasn't completely drained out of Chakara:
He was still able to have the Sharingan activated, even after what he went through.
He also referenced Manda as being another possible trick here:
Which fits very well, with the fact, that Sugitesu already had a Snake scroll and said ''he really did it''. Which means Manda was an option from the get go.
Ergo this was neither a plot hole, nor an asspull.
That is incorrect. There is no way for the reader to gauge how much chakra the character has left. That can only be known through two things.
A/ If the character himself stated it (i.e Kakashi state it a lot)
B/ If a sensory type user, can detect it.
In that fight, neither did Sasuke state he was running low on Chakra, nor was Deidara a sensory type user, or had a means to tell and gauge Sasuke's chakara. It was all speculations and guesses from Deidara's part.
In fact, Deidara already guessed and was proven wrong before the snake summon.
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Another point of view suggests that Sasuke, was lacking in chakra, because he was exhausted. While severe lack of chakra can cause exhaustion and in some cases death (i.e Kakashi again lol), that doesn't mean exhaustion can only occur for that reason exclusively.
The fight in general tired Sasuke, and more importantly, Sasuke using Chidori on himself, to get rid of the nano bombs, took a physical toll on him, as stated by himself:
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''Took a toll on me''
Using Chidori on himself, was Sasuke main reason for being exhausted, he did the same thing again on himself, when Deidara's snakes caught his legs, which led to him failing from fatigue, which Deidara mistakenly thought that it meant he no longer has any charkra left, making that his second wrong speculation/guess
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And another proof, that Sasuke wasn't completely drained out of Chakara:
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He was still able to have the Sharingan activated, even after what he went through.
He also referenced Manda as being another possible trick here:
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Which fits very well, with the fact, that Sugitesu already had a Snake scroll and said ''he really did it''. Which means Manda was an option from the get go.
Ergo this was neither a plot hole, nor an asspull.
Kakashi should be blind, due to using MS multiple times
Refutation
*This is not mine* or rather, only the chakra thing was added from me. But thought I would share anyway.
An original Mangekyo Sharingan puts a strain on the eye. The ocular muscles are placed under a constant strain due to the unique chakra the Mangekyo consumes. That strain causes the user to gradually go blind.
Another person's eye doesn't (for some reason) produce the same strain. So the user's vision is intact. That's why the EMS doesn't give users blindness (i.e Sasuke, Madara)
Itachi - Awakened his Mangekyo on his own, going blind.
Sasuke - Awakened his Mangekyo on his own, gone almost
completely blind, then took Itachi's eyes, and got his vision back, and has a EMS.
Madara - Same as Sasuke.
Kakashi - Remember that the eye didn't originally belong to him. His Mangekyo is more similar to an Eternal than a normal one. The effects of his eye are always shown from the very first arc he used it on, as fatigue and tiredness, and it consumes his Chakara greatly, thus he was only able to do it twice, in the beginning and more than that as his trained more (i.e when he and Naruto met Tobi in the Itachi hunt arc).
Now in the war arc, he is shown to have the same fatigue and lack of Chakara. But he is able to use it so much, because Kyuubi keeps healing/vitalizing him with his Chakara, along with the chakra cloak later on.
Obito - Because Obito has a high concentration of Hashirama Senju's cells. These constantly heal the eye, preventing it from going blind. That's why he doesn't get the fatigue from using the Kamui so much.
It's also worth noting that Madara, Sasuke and Itachi all used Amaetratsu and Susanoo.
An original Mangekyo Sharingan puts a strain on the eye. The ocular muscles are placed under a constant strain due to the unique chakra the Mangekyo consumes. That strain causes the user to gradually go blind.
Another person's eye doesn't (for some reason) produce the same strain. So the user's vision is intact. That's why the EMS doesn't give users blindness (i.e Sasuke, Madara)
Itachi - Awakened his Mangekyo on his own, going blind.
Sasuke - Awakened his Mangekyo on his own, gone almost
completely blind, then took Itachi's eyes, and got his vision back, and has a EMS.
Madara - Same as Sasuke.
Kakashi - Remember that the eye didn't originally belong to him. His Mangekyo is more similar to an Eternal than a normal one. The effects of his eye are always shown from the very first arc he used it on, as fatigue and tiredness, and it consumes his Chakara greatly, thus he was only able to do it twice, in the beginning and more than that as his trained more (i.e when he and Naruto met Tobi in the Itachi hunt arc).
Now in the war arc, he is shown to have the same fatigue and lack of Chakara. But he is able to use it so much, because Kyuubi keeps healing/vitalizing him with his Chakara, along with the chakra cloak later on.
Obito - Because Obito has a high concentration of Hashirama Senju's cells. These constantly heal the eye, preventing it from going blind. That's why he doesn't get the fatigue from using the Kamui so much.
It's also worth noting that Madara, Sasuke and Itachi all used Amaetratsu and Susanoo.
How did Madara use Susanoo without an eye
Answer
You only need a pair of Mangekyo Sharingan to awaken it. It was stated that you need the mangekyo to awaken the Susanoo, but nothing more after that. It wasn't directly stated that you need the eyes to be active, to use it. Susanoo is an ability granted to those who awaken the powers of both their Mangekyō Sharingan. It's appears to be a manifestation of Chakara, so maybe that's why.
In it's first ever appearance, Itachi didn't have normal Sharingan activated, let alone his Mangekyo, as he was almost blind
In chapter 560, Madara used the Susanoo, while having the Rinnegan activated, and not his mangekyo.
I get the impression that some people think you need to have a Mangekyo, because Sasuke was constantly having it active, when used his own Susanoo. But that's can be explained that Sasuke usually combined both Susanoo and Ameatrasu, and constantly used the later, so he needed to keep it active. And while you don't need it the eye to be active to use Susanoo, it's still helpful to have it, because aside from the new possible powers that comes with it, it's an enhanced version of the normal Sharingan with better generic abilities.
In it's first ever appearance, Itachi didn't have normal Sharingan activated, let alone his Mangekyo, as he was almost blind
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In chapter 560, Madara used the Susanoo, while having the Rinnegan activated, and not his mangekyo.
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I get the impression that some people think you need to have a Mangekyo, because Sasuke was constantly having it active, when used his own Susanoo. But that's can be explained that Sasuke usually combined both Susanoo and Ameatrasu, and constantly used the later, so he needed to keep it active. And while you don't need it the eye to be active to use Susanoo, it's still helpful to have it, because aside from the new possible powers that comes with it, it's an enhanced version of the normal Sharingan with better generic abilities.
Minato using summoning jutsu when he didn't have an arm
Hagoromo was the one who casted the technique. Minato and the edo kages had their chakra channel-ed through that large summoning symbol, which Hagoromo was the center of, and not just them, but the spirit and chakra of the former kages as well. Thus it was big enough, to be able to summon all of them from a different dimension all together.
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General confusion about Orochimaru and The four Hokage Edo Tensi
And Orochimaru couldn't do this before, because to enter you need a sharingan.Minagatachi said:
And a theory about Orochimaru in general relevant to this:
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General things about Naruto sage of six path, Naruto flying, healing, etc:
The sage of six path existence was established since the introduction of the Rinnegan. Further more, Naruto power up is him having Rikodu powers, and having the yang seal which is why he was able to save Gai from death, it wasn't a 'miracle':-
^ That happened more than 100 chapters ago, for all of those saying that Naruto healing power is hax or asspull. He is able to fly, because he has Rikkoudo powers, just like sage of six paths himself, and when Madara and Obito became the Jinchuriki.
So no Naruto is not Jesus.
There is also foreshadowing in the Kage summit arc, which is almost more than 200 chapters before it happened. In that Sasuke and Naruto and Madara and Harishama might be incarnations of his sons.
Man, I can't believe I didn't remember that, when I watched the arc. It was quite a detailed foreshadowing, even with the faces of Indra and Asurtha there.
Obito gives the best exposition and foreshadowing :3
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^ That happened more than 100 chapters ago, for all of those saying that Naruto healing power is hax or asspull. He is able to fly, because he has Rikkoudo powers, just like sage of six paths himself, and when Madara and Obito became the Jinchuriki.
So no Naruto is not Jesus.
There is also foreshadowing in the Kage summit arc, which is almost more than 200 chapters before it happened. In that Sasuke and Naruto and Madara and Harishama might be incarnations of his sons.
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Man, I can't believe I didn't remember that, when I watched the arc. It was quite a detailed foreshadowing, even with the faces of Indra and Asurtha there.
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Obito gives the best exposition and foreshadowing :3
Rinne Tensei
It was partly foreshadowed with the king of hell
It's basically the reverse of this:
Since it takes life force energy, it can give life force energy.
Also, Life energy jutsu is not a completely new concept, Chiyo did it, in the Kazekage arc
Besides the it had a purpose on the story, so I don't think it's bad in any way, asspull or not.
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It's basically the reverse of this:
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Since it takes life force energy, it can give life force energy.
Also, Life energy jutsu is not a completely new concept, Chiyo did it, in the Kazekage arc
Besides the it had a purpose on the story, so I don't think it's bad in any way, asspull or not.
Why is Madara reanimated to his prime/Young age when he died old
It was explained in the exact chapter Madara was revealed. That Kabuto made him special, and engineered him in a specific way, according to the tablet of the Uchiha.
And we are later shown, that even knew about Harishama's cells, and planted them into Madara's Edo Tensi Body.
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And we are later shown, that even knew about Harishama's cells, and planted them into Madara's Edo Tensi Body.
Why is Madara able to use Kamui while Obito couldn't in the Juubi form
Obito wasn't able to use only one part of Kamui. Which is phasing through objects parts.
Obito couldn't make his body phase so he wasn't able to use the intangibility ability, he didn't use the teleportation. Madara used the teleportation ability, and transported his upper half.
It might also has something to do with Madara being in perfect control as a Juubi, unlike Obito who had difficulty, so the power usage wasn't conflicted in Madara's case. But I think my second explanation is weak, and the first one is more plausible.
We were already shown that Kakashi's eye can use teleporation, off screen. When he got out of the Kamui dimension by himself.
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Obito couldn't make his body phase so he wasn't able to use the intangibility ability, he didn't use the teleportation. Madara used the teleportation ability, and transported his upper half.
It might also has something to do with Madara being in perfect control as a Juubi, unlike Obito who had difficulty, so the power usage wasn't conflicted in Madara's case. But I think my second explanation is weak, and the first one is more plausible.
We were already shown that Kakashi's eye can use teleporation, off screen. When he got out of the Kamui dimension by himself.
Fate of the Tailed Beast after the host dies
Some people had the impression, that once a Jin is dead, the tailed beast will be released. That is incorrect.
It's pretty clear from the beginning of the series, this wouldn't be the case, because Kyuubi wouldn't have wanted to lose control, when he could have just let him died.
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It's pretty clear from the beginning of the series, this wouldn't be the case, because Kyuubi wouldn't have wanted to lose control, when he could have just let him died.
Well, that's the most common ones from what I remember.
So list the plot holes you think the series has. You can list asspulls as well:
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