Rikudou Killer Bee vs DMS Kakashi

[Kagustuchi]

A little faster in movement speed? Pretty sure that BM Kurama moves much faster than Hachibi does, and Sasuke's PS equals BM Kurama in that area.

Not gonna lie, was thinking overall speed (combat speed) when I said that. Hachibi's movement is actually booty butt cheeks.

Sasuke has the lead in durability by far considering he gets moderately injured at least by his BD while Sasuke's PS and Naruto's Avatar can be in the explosion of PS Chidori and a Bijuu Dama the size of Full Kurama's and only come out with damage to the arm, wing, and face.

I still don't see Chidori having contributed to any of the explosions where they clashed. Chidori/Raikiri has never exploded in any other instance, and given how powerful Rasengan is it could have very easily created the domes that encompassed them.

How you get full Kurama? That Bijudama scales down to BM Naruto's standard BD.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

That was definitely Madara's that he took from him.

No.

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And once again, your just failing to grasp what Im saying to you. Rikudo's Senjutsu is what allows flight and Onmyoton, having SM is not a requirement to use the aforementioned abilities either. Quit thinking im talking about his literal Chakra, I can find scans that specifically referring to what im talking about if you string this out anymore.

Rikudo senjutsu is applying Natural energy to rikudo chakra, whether it b through sage mode or the embodiment of natural enegry the juubi.

Obito has the staff in scan above.... and he aint flying.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Not gonna lie, was thinking overall speed (combat speed) when I said that. Hachibi's movement is actually booty butt cheeks

Oh, lol. True.

I still don't see Chidori having contributed to any of the explosions where they clashed. Chidori/Raikiri has never exploded in any other instance, and given how powerful Rasengan is it could have very easily created the domes that encompassed them.

How you get full Kurama? That Bijudama scales down to BM Naruto's standard BD.

-VoTe 1, Naruto and Sasuke's attacks clashed, and a grayish blackish dome was formed. Why would a gray dome form if Chidori (which was black at the time to boot) had no part in the explosion?

-Indra's Arrow and Naruto's final attack mirror this. Indra's Arrow normally doesn't explode as it's an arrow, yet the explosion contained both it's power and Naruto's final attack's power.

-Chidori Senbon don't normally explode either. Yet we could even see it in the explosion when Sasuke used them against Bijuu Dama.

The final Rasengan Chidori clash obliterated Madara and Hashirama's Mountain Sized statues. No Chidori or Rasengan on it's own has those kind of feats even after the Rikudo Power, barring The Last of course.

I got full Kurama because while the chakra scales down to him, the size of the BD scales down to full Kurama's BD because of how large BM Naruto's Avatar became after the Rikudo Boost.

 

[Kagustuchi]

No.

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Rikudo senjutsu is applying Natural energy to rikudo chakra, whether it b through sage mode or the embodiment of natural enegry the juubi.

Madara formed another one

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on the bottom left panel after he took it from him, as Obito clearly takes it from him [

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][

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] (The staff is taller than Obito yet you don't see Madara holding one)

and don't try and feed me some crap about Madara not being able to form another staff[

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].

Fun fact I just noticed too. Madara's staff is drawn wrong in the scan you posted, his isn't suppose to have the rings.

-VoTe 1, Naruto and Sasuke's attacks clashed, and a grayish blackish dome was formed. Why would a gray dome form if Chidori (which was black at the time to boot) had no part in the explosion?

Just Chidori's radius expanding, the same way the Last Sasuke wrecked that meteor. Expanding in size doesn't mean it explodes.

-Indra's Arrow and Naruto's final attack mirror this. Indra's Arrow normally doesn't explode as it's an arrow, yet the explosion contained both it's power and Naruto's final attack's power.

How do you know Indra's arrow doesn't explode? Its not Chidori or Raikiri so that's not comparable. Plus its overloaded with Chakra from 9 Biju and Sasuke's Indra/Hagoromo Chakra. Just because its an arrow doesn't mean it doesn't explode, FRS is a shruiken but it makes massive explosions.

-Chidori Senbon don't normally explode either. Yet we could even see it in the explosion when Sasuke used them against Bijuu Dama.

Addressed above, the explosion of BD forced the lighting out and it clung to the explosion. No lighting style has ever exploded in any other circumstance, so I don't see how it magically gains that property when it clashes with Rasengan. The lightning just clings to the explosion of Rasengan/BD.

The final Rasengan Chidori clash obliterated Madara and Hashirama's Mountain Sized statues. No Chidori or Rasengan on it's own has those kind of feats even after the Rikudo Power, barring The Last of course.

When was base Rasengan ever used other than that occasion? Plus he put all the Chakra that Kurama had made him in that Rasengan, which is already way more potent than his normal non Rikudo Chakra (1 Tails Naruto created a massive explosion with his). Could easily see it creating that level of destruction.

I got full Kurama because while the chakra scales down to him, the size of the BD scales down to full Kurama's BD because of how large BM Naruto's Avatar became after the Rikudo Boost.

I don't see how that works.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Madara formed another one

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on the bottom left panel after he took it from him, as Obito clearly takes it from him [

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][

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] (The staff is taller than Obito yet you don't see Madara holding one)

and don't try and feed me some crap about Madara not being able to form another staff[

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].

Obito made the staff himself.

Spoiler

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U can see the orb next to obito's hand prior to him turning it into a staff across from madara's still visible staff. Try again.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Obito made the staff himself.

Spoiler

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U can see the orb next to obito's hand prior to him turning it into a staff across from madara's still visible staff. Try again.

Ok, you got me there. He still doesn't have the Rikudo's Senjutsu there though, plus your still going around what a major point of what I've been saying. Bee literally has to be given Hagoromo's Senjutsu to be able to fly, this doesn't require SM as Obito has shown.

What I've been trying to point out is that he can be given Rikudo's Senjutsu, I naturally assumed he would be given it since he standing in for Naruto. If having SM was a requirement then Obito wouldn't have been able to fly, and if having the Juubi was a requirement then Naruto wouldn't have been able to. Having all Nine Biju to have control over the Rikudo's Senjutsu isn't a requirement either, or Obito wouldn't have been able to mold a staff.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Just Chidori's radius expanding, the same way the Last Sasuke wrecked that meteor. Expanding in size doesn't mean it explodes.

If it were just Chidori's radius expanding, you'd see black electricity only just like you saw in The Last. Not a

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solid black explosion. It doesn't need to explode on it's own for it's energy to be taken into account in the combination explosion.

How do you know Indra's arrow doesn't explode? Its not Chidori or Raikiri so that's not comparable. Plus its overloaded with Chakra from 9 Biju and Sasuke's Indra/Hagoromo Chakra. Just because its an arrow doesn't mean it doesn't explode, FRS is a shruiken but it makes massive explosions.

The only thing separating it from Susanoo Arrow is that it's made with more and stronger chakra. Why would that be proof that it can explode? FRS is bad example because Rasengan explodes, and the Rasengan in the middle is the only reason that the wind sphere explosion forms to begin with. There is no reason to believe that Indra's Arrow can explode.

Addressed above, the explosion of BD forced the lighting out and it clung to the explosion. No lighting style has ever exploded in any other circumstance, so I don't see how it magically gains that property when it clashes with Rasengan. The lightning just clings to the explosion of Rasengan/BD.

Wouldn't that basically mean that Chidori Senbon's energy spread throughout the explosion, thus both energies are contained in that explosion, thus proving my point? Not to mention no lighting was ever shown in any Rasengan or BD clash.

When was base Rasengan ever used other than that occasion? Plus he put all the Chakra that Kurama had made him in that Rasengan, which is already way more potent than his normal non Rikudo Chakra (1 Tails Naruto created a massive explosion with his). Could easily see it creating that level of destruction.

Only going to drop this point because Rikudo Naruto has never used a Base Rasengan before. Still don't believe that each and every explosion was only Rasengan when the clear intent of the clash should make it clear that it was both.

I don't see how that works.

The ball itself is the same size as Full Kurama's ball. Why would we downscale to a ball far smaller? To complete the downscaling accurately, we'd have to downscale to a Bijuu Dama the same size, but with a smaller explosion due to the weaker chakra. Thus it'd be Full Kurama's standard BD, or a BD that size used by BM Naruto.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Ok, you got me there. He still doesn't have the Rikudo's Senjutsu there though, plus your still going around what a major point of what I've been saying. Bee literally has to be given Hagoromo's Senjutsu to be able to fly, this doesn't require SM as Obito has shown.

obito had the juubi. Thats the embodiment of natural enegry, thus by proxy the best sm.

What I've been trying to point out is that he can be given Rikudo's Senjutsu, I naturally assumed he would be given it since he standing in for Naruto. If having SM was a requirement then Obito wouldn't have been able to fly, and if having the Juubi was a requirement then Naruto wouldn't have been able to. Having all Nine Biju to have control over the Rikudo's Senjutsu isn't a requirement either, or Obito wouldn't have been able to mold a staff.

No. Harogomo didn't give naruto "rikudo senjutsu" and then give sasuke rikudo chakra. That defeats the whole "treat my sons equal this time" point.

To get rikudo senjutsu you have to apply NATURAL ENERGY to the rikudo's chakra.

That can be done by:

A)Absorbing juubi the embodiment of natural energy

or

B)Absorbing natural energy.

 

[Conspirator.]

Kakashi clearly wins it.

 

[ARGUS]

Terrible terrible logic. Strength is comprised out of all abilities, not just chakra. Obito's chakra>>DMS Kakashi's since DMS Kakashi is only using a piece of a Juubi Jin's chakra, yet DMS Kakashi is around Obito's level and would beat him handily in combat. B having half of Hagoromo's power matters naught because even with it, a Perfect Susanoo used by someone with only a portion of JJ Madara's Rikudo Chakra is enough to beat him, with nothing more than moderate difficulty to say the least.

And no, it doesn't go either way, B gets wrecked.

No its not terrible logic because hypothetically speaking, someone who has all of hagoromos yang chakra should be at a level above kakashi,
upon getting such chakra, naruto went from being unable to even hold a candle to juubito, to being able to beat the shit out of shinjumadara, and combat Kaguya
so the strength of chakra is still a huge factor in determining strength,

furthermore your logic of stating that PS being far above hachibi prior to the rikudo boost falls flat when their boost is nowhere near equivalent. You are equating sasukes PS to kakashis PS based on no real evidence and are basing your arguments during sasukes battle at VOTE, which is fallacious

half of hagoromos chakra directly from hagoromo himself >>>> portion of rikudo chakra recieved from madara
what bee has recieved ITT is far more potent and far stronger than the recycled chakra thats boosting kakashis susanoo

upon getting this chakra, hachibis durability would also multiply just how the boost multiplied the kurama avatars,

then theres the fact that upon getting this much chakra, bee woud logically have six path senjutsu and combining it with his bijuus power, he would get RSM, that grants enough speed to evade and react to kamui

so NO it could still be close because the OP has not clearly specified what bee has recieved with such chakra

 

[Sasori]

I see .

 

[KeyofDestiny]

No its not terrible logic because hypothetically speaking, someone who has all of hagoromos yang chakra should be at a level above kakashi,

Because you believe so? Lol. Once again. Bad logic.

upon getting such chakra, naruto went from being unable to even hold a candle to juubito, to being able to beat the shit out of shinjumadara, and combat Kaguya
so the strength of chakra is still a huge factor in determining strength,

I don't know how many times this has to be said. But stop using Naruto as a baseline. Naruto is NOT Killer B. Naruto is >>>>Killer B w/ BM before the Rikudo Boost, so why would you use Naruto's jump in power to justify that B wins? Strength of chakra is obviously a huge factor, who denied that? But your logic of "B is way stronger because he has far stronger chakra" while ignoring the fact that Kakashi has other abilities outside of that makes completely no sense. And there is no disputing it.

furthermore your logic of stating that PS being far above hachibi prior to the rikudo boost falls flat when their boost is nowhere near equivalent. You are equating sasukes PS to kakashis PS based on no real evidence and are basing your arguments during sasukes battle at VOTE, which is fallacious

If you actually read anything I said to RJ, you wouldn't be saying this. So I'll wait for a real rebuttal after you actually read what was stated. You haven't even addressed the main argument. The only fallacious logic is that B has stronger chakra than Kakashi, so he automatically wins. Makes zeero sense.

The bold only proves to me that you didn't read. :lol I don't know what is going with people this week, but it seems we are either forgetting how to read or choosing not to read. Go read.

half of hagoromos chakra directly from hagoromo himself >>>> portion of rikudo chakra recieved from madara
what bee has recieved ITT is far more potent and far stronger than the recycled chakra thats boosting kakashis susanoo

Addressed and irrelevant as Kakashi still stomps him.

upon getting this chakra, hachibis durability would also multiply just how the boost multiplied the kurama avatars,

Addressed. B would get shitted on as long as Kakashi used PS, let alone Kamui and it's associated abilities. I've yet to see one realistic case for B's victory while I just made a case for a PS Kakashi only w/ no Kamui or associated abilities.

then theres the fact that upon getting this much chakra, bee woud logically have six path senjutsu and combining it with his bijuus power, he would get RSM, that grants enough speed to evade and react to kamui

so NO it could still be close because the OP has not clearly specified what bee has recieved with such chakra

Lol, stop. What OP specified is irrelevant now. OP said nothing, so we are left to piece together what he got by looking at Naruto.

-Why would he get the same RSM as Naruto when Naruto's Bijuu Mode is completely different? Naruto only gained RSM because he had the potential to use a Sage Mode before, thus when he called on Hagoromo's Senjutsu, he enters a Sage Mode on steroids. B has no Sage Mode nor is RSM "Hagoromo's power+1 Bijuu". He's in Sasuke's boat. He gets the chakra, but that is it. Zero reason to believe he gets RSM.

-Based on what can B easily evade Kamui used by Rikudo Kakashi? Because Naruto w/ RSM can? First of all, Naruto has the massive speed boost from Kurama and he has the massive speed boost from RSM. B only has a speed boost from Hachibi, which is nowhere near Naruto's speed, and he has Hagoromo's chakra, not RSM. What's worse is that to dodge Kamui he has to be outside of Bijuu Mode, but if is outside of Bijuu Mode, Susanoo stomps him.

This is not close if you stop saying "lol chakra" and actually look at the abilities.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

No its not terrible logic because hypothetically speaking, someone who has all of hagoromos yang chakra should be at a level above kakashi,

If I give Udon half of Hagoromo's chakra is he going to become stronger than Kakashi? Cause that is clearly the logic you are using here.

 

[NarutoX28]

Personally, I do believe Killer Bee would have Rikudou Senjutsu based on the fact that Hagoromo had it prior to sealing the Juubi.

However, DMS Kakashi absolutely shitstomps RSM Hachibi. Not only is Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode far superior to Bee's, but Naruto having access to Sage Mode whereas Hachibi's doesn't implies Killer Bee Chakra that molded with Hagoromo's Yang Chakra is far weaker and thus yields an inferior boost.

DMS Kakashi managed to compete on a comparable level to Rikudou Sasuke and RSM Naruto during their fight with Kaguya. Not only that, DMS Kakashi can easily use Kamui defensively, use Kamui Shurikens to counter Bijuudamas, and simply use Kamui to land a fatal blow like he did against Kaguya.

This is a joke honestly. DMS Kakashi easily takes this.

 

[Rιver]

@KG: What you are saying isn't 100% correct, because you compare B to Naruto now, and because B is already weaker than BM Naruto he is thus weaker than DMS Kakashi by your logic. Truth is, Naruto in RSM is levels above DMS Kakashi and you can't compare Naruto to neither party. B is > DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudo chakra in every way.

Kakashi got a small boost from Rikudos chakra, B gets the equivalent boost to Naruto here. So B would win in terms of raw power, strength, speed, stamina, chakra and overall power.

B would manhandle his PS in terms of power in BM here, it's no contest. Kakashis only shot is Kamui, but B would get the speed to evade that.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

@KG: What you are saying isn't 100% correct, because you compare B to Naruto now, and because B is already weaker than BM Naruto he is thus weaker than DMS Kakashi by your logic. Truth is, Naruto in RSM is levels above DMS Kakashi and you can't compare Naruto to neither party. B is > DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudo chakra in every way.

Kakashi got a small boost from Rikudos chakra, B gets the equivalent boost to Naruto here. So B would win in terms of raw power, strength, speed, stamina, chakra and overall power.

B would manhandle his PS in terms of power in BM here, it's no contest. Kakashis only shot is Kamui, but B would get the speed to evade that.

If it takes b/kakashi/naruto/guy to get around 1 kamui what makes you think b can stand up to both?

Chakra is irrelevant here. B with rikudou chakra isn't gonna be any where near the likes of naruto with rsm/9 beasts chakra. There's nothing even leading me to believe KB tbb can break ps.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

@KG: What you are saying isn't 100% correct, because you compare B to Naruto now, and because B is already weaker than BM Naruto he is thus weaker than DMS Kakashi by your logic. Truth is, Naruto in RSM is levels above DMS Kakashi and you can't compare Naruto to neither party. B is > DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudo chakra in every way.

Kakashi got a small boost from Rikudos chakra, B gets the equivalent boost to Naruto here. So B would win in terms of raw power, strength, speed, stamina, chakra and overall power.

B would manhandle his PS in terms of power in BM here, it's no contest. Kakashis only shot is Kamui, but B would get the speed to evade that.

It's like you guys don't read before you reply. I'll reply later.

 

[Rιver]

If it takes b/kakashi/naruto/guy to get around 1 kamui what makes you think b can stand up to both?

Chakra is irrelevant here. B with rikudou chakra isn't gonna be any where near the likes of naruto with rsm/9 beasts chakra. There's nothing even leading me to believe KB tbb can break ps.

Doesn't matter because even half of RSM Naruto is stronger than DMS Kakashi.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Doesn't matter because even half of RSM Naruto is stronger than DMS Kakashi.

Killer be isn't half of rsm naruto tho.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

@KG: What you are saying isn't 100% correct, because you compare B to Naruto now, and because B is already weaker than BM Naruto he is thus weaker than DMS Kakashi by your logic. Truth is, Naruto in RSM is levels above DMS Kakashi and you can't compare Naruto to neither party. B is > DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudo chakra in every way.

Kakashi got a small boost from Rikudos chakra, B gets the equivalent boost to Naruto here. So B would win in terms of raw power, strength, speed, stamina, chakra and overall power.

B would manhandle his PS in terms of power in BM here, it's no contest. Kakashis only shot is Kamui, but B would get the speed to evade that.

No, B is weaker than DMS Kakashi because that's what feats show. No one in this thread has even bothered to address the actual argument. That only tells me that no one has a good reason to believe Kakashi loses, just "lol chakra". Naruto being irrelevant is my point, so stop using him as a base of comparison when you yourself state that he can't be compared to either character.

B>DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudo Chakra is not only extremely false, but extremely irrelevant because DMS Kakashi gets new abilities while B doesn't. Take away all Rikudo Chakra and Kakashi would shit on B the same way he shits here. The rest has been addressed in my post to Kifflom. B getting stronger chakra means jack when PS would shit on him regardless of the Rikudo Boost.

Bold is only a baseless assumption backed with no real evidence and has even been answered in posts to RJ, Kifflom, and DA, and the rest has been countered in my post to Kifflom, who decided not to read either. Now, If you are going to reply again, reply to the real argument.

:lol, Now I know exactly what FT meant when he said B is overrated as shit.