Gadien Sasuke(no sage chakra) VS BSM Minato

[ComplexCity]

Im not mad lol and who are you?

A spectator watching you getting shat on

 

[Unorthodox]

A spectator watching you getting shat on

Where did i get shat on at? Have you read the debate? im going to guess not so your opinion is only relevant to you and next time keep it to yourself aswell you do not have to quote me and shit.

Hagoromo's chakra bolsters ALL ABILITIES. The fact that you felt the need to take BUFFED Sasuke's feats and give them to a non BUFFED Sasuke only shows that you know Sasuke w/ the abilities he's supposed to have w/o Hagoromo's power cannot win. Kidgamer but still has 10x the knowledge and 10x the IQ you do. Smh.
FOH with your retarded ass.

Basic Genjutsu can catch Kurama Basic Genjutsu can Catch Minato Rinnegan Genjutsu being the strongest would logically be able to catch them both in that is a good game. I did not give Sasuke those abilities this thread did sorry don't hate the debater hate the thread Lmao your knowledge being 10x to mine is flawed i just defeated you and made you concede what happen to all that do you even know what IQ means N.B.4 GOOGLE lol.

Still typing in caps and name calling someones jimmies is rustled if you really felt like you won they're would be no point in internet shouting.


PS you still never answered my Hagoromo buffed chakra 3 tomoe genjutsu argument

 

[ashrafuchiha]

Hagoromo's chakra bolsters ALL ABILITIES. The fact that you felt the need to take BUFFED Sasuke's feats and give them to a non BUFFED Sasuke only shows that you know Sasuke w/ the abilities he's supposed to have w/o Hagoromo's power cannot win. Kidgamer but still has 10x the knowledge and 10x the IQ you do. Smh.

FOH with your retarded ass.


I already explained why his striking speed is irrelevant when it comes to his movement speed.



Except Sasuke's PS takes a direct hit. Minato's Avatar blocks with it's tails. Two completely different things.



Never said he'd fire them in a row. You kids need to sit down and learn how to read. Not to mention it's fact Ameno can't be spammed due to it's cooldown.



This whole paragraph is literally you stating "Minato can't react because I say so". Lmfao. Grow the **** up and learn how form a real argument, instead of literally copying and pasting other people's arguments into your post instead of making your own.

what are you even talking about why are you talking about his striking and movement speed he flatout dodges that FBD with or without ameno. If sasuke dodges it once and minato cant fire in a row then why are we dabting this coz then sasuke will have dodged the attack.
You said minato is at a close range when he fires that FBD then tell me what if sasuke just decides to switch places with minato just before the attack hits him? What are you gonna tell me that minato reacts at that split second and evades? if so im done with you haha.
you said i copy and pasted waltz argument into mine, so what? we are both arguing against you? if he says something that benefits my side of the argument im gonna use it against you lmao. Waltz said how sasuke gets by kurama avatar and you havent said shit you just ignored it and said i copy and pasted his argument. WELL COUNTER IT THEN.

 

[ashrafuchiha]

@KG i love how for every other way that someone came to you with that Ameno GG crap you always had a way to counter it but since i added the Bansho tenin combo to it all youve said is that my argument says that minato doesnt react coz i said so. Everything youve said so far against that combo is minato reacts so you are literally just saying the opposite to me. NOt really countering the combo like you were for every other possible way for sasuke to win that was thrown at you.

 

[ARGUS]

[FONT=CambriaHmm...

Gakidō hold's relevancy as the Senjutsu absorbed from Minato's attacks can just be used to fuel a Senjutsu Susano'o; [/QUOTE]
That is a big assumption since:

1. sasuke cannot use preta whilst he is camped insiide PS, its either one or the other, and if its jusst preta itself than he is pretty much defenseless against physical attacks or large scale attacks

2. we dont know how sasuke can handle senjutsu chakra especially with the scale of minatos attacks, so if he absorbs too much then theres a high possibility that he will undergo petrification

also, "Susano'ō being destoryed /Damaged" should not even be referenced as it can be effortlessly replenished.

once susanoo gets busted, its inaccessible for a short amount of time, as seen with madara vs hashirama, and that time is more than enough for minato to finish him off,
the only time susanoo hass been shown to be instantly replenished is when its upgraded which woont be the case with PS

With the Sharingan's precision Sasuke ignites Namikaze's Kunai with Ameterasu and the wood-portion hosting the seal is burnt off.

the seal would still not dissappear meaning that minato could still teleport there,
minato still has the foot speed to dance around alll of sasukes attacks and can form markings as the battle progresses through either clones or prepped kunais,

hindering FTG is not happening here

The Rin'negan abilities as well as those stemming from his Sharingan give birth to many various methods by which Sasuke could best Namikaze.

unfortunately for sasuke, he lacks the feats with his rinnegan usage and any of the six path jutsus are pretty much non factor hhere

Initially Sasuke could use Amenotejikara concurrently with

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to make contact with Minato and begin to remove the Kyuubi's Chakra and his soul.

Minato can react to Ameno and sasukes strike before he even lays a hand on him, as minato either teleports away from sasuke
or uses his clones and his superior reactions to ensure that he lands a touch on sasuke, meaning the next move would be KO

--ningendo wont be cutting it, since it needs direct contact with minato,

--preta wont be working since it still leaves him open for physical attacks which is mostly FTG based attacks

--ameno wont be working since minato himself has an S/T jutsu and has superior reactions and far superior body flicker

 

[DHOH]

Why are you replying to me? was i speaking to you? Lol no and by the caps its sounds like your angry you did not counter my points replying to me quotes is not a counter you only repeated yourself with the same nonsense. If 3 tomoe Itachi would have gotten Hagoromo's chakra would that means his 3 tomoe genjutsu would be stronger? Derp no anyways your ability to comprehend my post is funny since you had no counter for any of it and i was the one debating with a fanfiction Kidgamer sit yo but down and stay in a Kids place.


HEY OP DUDE DOES SASUKE GET ALL HIS RINNEGAN ABILITIES THAT HE'S SHOWN JUST DOWNSCALED OR WHAT? MAKE IT SPECIFIC TO ME Okay

It's stupid to think Rinnengan Sasuke without sage chakra lose any feats other than some speed, Senjutsu chidori and chakra.. His attacks obviously won't be as strong but no reason why he wouldn't have them.

 

[Apêx1]

No, I suggest you read that scan again. Karin stated that Sasuke's chakra is more potent than it was in CM2, then she says "more than that", "It's just cold". She never stated that it being cold and it being powerful are the same. She stated that his chakra is more potent and colder. Obito said that his hatred made his chakra more powerful.

-Does that mean that Sasuke having more sinister chakra than Kurama means that he has more powerful chakra than Kurama? Obviously not. Hatred can make Sasuke's power grow, but having more of it isn't going to make his chakra more powerful than those who lack it.

Then there's the fact that you are still implying that Hebi Sasuke~EMS Madara in chakra potency, which makes absolutely no sense for reasons already stated.

Uhh what? I CLEARLY gave you the scan [

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] at page 4 in my argument, you failed to read/click it. She says his body reacts to his hatred, and it makes him more powerful. And again, he says 'not at all unlike a certain Madara' in one of the translations I have read, so you can interpret it in different ways. But fact remains that thy were compared, regardless of the extent of that comparison.

What's funny is that you are telling me I need evidence, even though you are using Orochimaru's statement as evidence. ONE DAY he'll be able to surpass Madara. That isn't proof that Gaiden Sasuke is stronger than EMS Madara by "quite a bit". You'd have to prove to me that the day you refer to is the "one day" Orochimaru spoke of. Tobirama's statement is completely irrelevant. You tried to use them both being reincarnations as evidence that Sasuke and Madara have the same potential peak in power, and Naruto and Hashirama disprove that. It's as simple as that. Tobirama not comparing their power doesn't change any of this.



Smh. Where in the world are you getting this nonsense from? Not only does Orochimaru not know the full power of Rinnegan Madara, it should be pretty clear that he was referring to EMS Madara. Not a Rinnegan Madara who truly didn't even exist at that point due to being an Edo Tensei and having a fake Rinnegan. Lmao.

Lmao. You are being in denial now, clearly. Sasuke was 17 at the end of Part 2 and is about 32 in Gaiden. Unlelss you think he's priming at 50, there's nothing to debate here. He is around the age in which he should prime, and even if he isn't completely prime (at prime he surpasses Madara) he's easily close enough to be superior to EMS Madara since Orochimaru DID in fact know the extent of Madara's powers. But okay, I'll concede on the reincarnation part.

What? You are twisting things around here for your own liking. Kabuto AND Orochimaru [

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] had researched Rinnegan Madara and only Kabuto got to see their hypothesis proven correct. But good thing all information was passed onto Orochimaru, so he does in fact know a lot given a few years of research is tonnes. Furthermore, Kabuto does state this is far above his prime, meaning EMS Madara<<<What Sasuke can become. If you want to believe this is EMS madara you're going to have to prove it, because as far as I can tell he knew about Madara's Rinnegan power and still suggested Sasuke would one day become superior. So Sasuke not being superior to an EMS Madara at 32 is ridiculous.

 

[lucario14]

It's stupid to think Rinnengan Sasuke without sage chakra lose any feats other than some speed, Senjutsu chidori and chakra.. His attacks obviously won't be as strong but no reason why he wouldn't have them.

I agree. I get that he can't perform genjutsu on all bijuu because of the amount of chakra required but should still be able to do PS chidori.

Because, it was shown at VoTE.

Bold is based off nothing. EMS Sasuke does not have the feat of using PS Chidori thus he does not get it as there is no logical reasoning anyone can bring that'd allow him to use it when he's only done it with Hagoromo's chakra. The rest is wrong. He scales down to BM, not BSM. It's short, so I might as well just say it again. RSM Naruto isn't BSM Naruto+Hagoromo's Senjutsu. He's BM Naruto+Hagoromo's Senjutsu. His Sage Mode before doesn't go towards the power that makes up his RSM since it's not internal like Kurama's power and Hagoromo's Senjutsu is. Hagoromo's power basically replaced/enhanced his Sage Mode.

So PS Chidori=Bijuu Dama. Not Senjutsu Bijuu Dama. Just how Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM Avatar, not his BSM Avatar.

Both Naruto and Sasuke received equal amount of chakra from Hagoromo so it doesn't make sense that Sasuke only can perform this new technique while Naruto can only do a bijuudama just like before, especially if they were equal in strength as shown in VOTE 2. This means Sasuke (at least with rinnegan) can perform PS chidori without rikudo chakra.

Ok that makes sense. But in this case Sasuke has rinnegan. That makes up for the senjutsu boost BM receives.

 

[Unorthodox]

It's stupid to think Rinnengan Sasuke without sage chakra lose any feats other than some speed, Senjutsu chidori and chakra.. His attacks obviously won't be as strong but no reason why he wouldn't have them.

THANK YOU.

So Kidgamer its looks like PS chidori is not a fanfiction for this thread along with every tech Sasuke has shown GTFOH

I agree. I get that he can't perform genjutsu on all bijuu because of the amount of chakra required

Rinnegan genjutsu perk is catching multiple opponents without eye contact having less chakra means nothing since genjutsu does not take any large amount of chakra to take control over beast like Full kurama let alone bm kurama and Minato

 

[lucario14]

THANK YOU.

So Kidgamer its looks like PS chidori is not a fanfiction for this thread along with every tech Sasuke has shown GTFOH



Rinnegan genjutsu perk is catching multiple opponents without eye contact having less chakra means nothing since genjutsu does not take any large amount of chakra to take control over beast like Full kurama let alone bm kurama and Minato

Could Madara have performed IT without being a jin? I think not.

 

[Unorthodox]

Could Madara have performed IT without being a jin? I think not.

Infinite tsukuyomi requires the 3rd eye and if he could have the 3rd eye without being a jin hell yes Madara never even hinted the IT takes alot of chakra out of the user to cast

 

[lucario14]

Infinite tsukuyomi requires the 3rd eye and if he could have the 3rd eye without being a jin hell yes Madara never even hinted the IT takes alot of chakra out of the user to cast

Yea it takes a lot of chakra to awaken that eye right? The chakra of the juubi. Sasuke awoke his rinne sharingan (weaker than Kaguya's one) because of how much chakra he had plus how much he was given. All in all a LOT of chakra.

 

[Unorthodox]

Yea it takes a lot of chakra to awaken that eye right? The chakra of the juubi. Sasuke awoke his rinne sharingan (weaker than Kaguya's one) because of how much chakra he had plus how much he was given. All in all a LOT of chakra.

Sasuke did not awake the rinnegan it was giving to him by Hagoromo difference

 

[DHOH]

When Sasuke cast the genjutsu on the bijuu and place them in CT he was low on chakra from his battle with madara and kaguya. So I don't see why couldn't do the same without sage chakra and 100% chakra.. Not to mention his Chaka has grown even more, proof of dimension swapping.

 

[KidGamer65]

Uhh what? I CLEARLY gave you the scan [

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] at page 4 in my argument, you failed to read/click it. She says his body reacts to his hatred, and it makes him more powerful. And again, he says 'not at all unlike a certain Madara' in one of the translations I have read, so you can interpret it in different ways. But fact remains that thy were compared, regardless of the extent of that comparison.

Nope. I clearly addressed that scan.

-Does that mean that Sasuke having more sinister chakra than Kurama means that he has more powerful chakra than Kurama? Obviously not. Hatred can make Sasuke's power grow, but having more of it isn't going to make his chakra more powerful than those who lack it.


I suggest you read it. Stop mentioning this comparison. If you aren't going to embrace the fact that you are blatantly stating Hebi Sasuke~EMS Madara in chakra quality, then your argument holds no weight, because them being compared means nothing if they aren't near each other. If you do embrace that fact, then you'll sound crazy since that'd mean MS Sasuke, and especially EMS Sasuke, would surpass EMS Madara's chakra by far, yet EMS Sasuke's Susanoo is still piss weak in comparison to Madara's.

Lmao. You are being in denial now, clearly. Sasuke was 17 at the end of Part 2 and is about 32 in Gaiden. Unlelss you think he's priming at 50, there's nothing to debate here. He is around the age in which he should prime, and even if he isn't completely prime (at prime he surpasses Madara) he's easily close enough to be superior to EMS Madara since Orochimaru DID in fact know the extent of Madara's powers. But okay, I'll concede on the reincarnation part.

Sasuke is 17 at the end of Part 2, 19 in the last, and 29 in Gaiden. Where is 32 coming from? The Last is 2 years after the end of the Manga, and Ch 700 is 10 years after the end of the Manga. Bold is false, and an assumption based on irrelevant evidence.

What? You are twisting things around here for your own liking. Kabuto AND Orochimaru [

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] had researched Rinnegan Madara and only Kabuto got to see their hypothesis proven correct. But good thing all information was passed onto Orochimaru, so he does in fact know a lot given a few years of research is tonnes. Furthermore, Kabuto does state this is far above his prime, meaning EMS Madara<<<What Sasuke can become. If you want to believe this is EMS madara you're going to have to prove it, because as far as I can tell he knew about Madara's Rinnegan power and still suggested Sasuke would one day become superior. So Sasuke not being superior to an EMS Madara at 32 is ridiculous.

:lmao You have the nerve to talk about ridiculousness when you are actually arguing that Hebi Sasuke and EMS Madara have comparable chakra quality, and that EMS Sasuke at Madara's age will surpass DUAL RINNEGAN Madara, who is alive and thus tiers and tiers above his Edo Self? Smh. We all saw how strong One Eyed Madara was. We all saw strong JJ Madara was in comparison to his JJ One Eyed self after he took his other eye. You mean to tell me that you think EMS Sasuke, the guy far below EMS Madara will surpass a Rinnegan Madara with a tremendous boost like that? A Rinnegan Madara with all the Rinnegan's powers at a magnitude far above that of Nagato? A Rinnegan Madara who has Hagoromo's chakra to boot? Smh.

They researched how they could recreate said Rinnegan in Madara's Edo body. How does that have anything to do with his power? How would researching about the recreation of the Rinnegan in Madara's Edo body tell him how strong Dual Rinnegan Madara would be? What's worse is that you are trying to argue that they'd know his full power, despite not knowing that they couldn't bring out the Rinnegan's full power with an Edo Tensei fake. Kabuto was thirsty to see Edo Madara's power, but somehow "he knew it". At best he knew Edo Madara's power, and Edo Madara already stated that PS is his full power, thus him and his prime self have equal full power. Kabuto's statement "far above your prime" is completely irrelevant in the face of the character's own statement.

This argument boils down to you thinking that EMS Sasuke has surpassed EMS Madara by far based on a statement from Orochimaru. The icing on the cake is that you actually think he surpassed Rinnegan Madara. :lol

Both Naruto and Sasuke received equal amount of chakra from Hagoromo so it doesn't make sense that Sasuke only can perform this new technique while Naruto can only do a bijuudama just like before, especially if they were equal in strength as shown in VOTE 2. This means Sasuke (at least with rinnegan) can perform PS chidori without rikudo chakra.

Ok that makes sense. But in this case Sasuke has rinnegan. That makes up for the senjutsu boost BM receives.

Doesn't make sense. Sasuke's new technique has nothing to do with the amount of chakra he got, it has to do with the chakra period. That's why he can combine his techs with Susanoo, just like Kakashi. Naruto showed BD before he got Hagoromo's power, so that's a bad comparison. If anything you should be using BDFRS as Naruto's new tech that he can't use w/o said chakra. (Cause he can't)

No, it doesn't. Rinnegan doesn't power Sasuke up at all. Not shown in the Manga and OP went out of his way to take all types of Rikudo Chakra from Sasuke. Rinnegan is just an eye here with special abilities.

THANK YOU.

So Kidgamer its looks like PS chidori is not a fanfiction for this thread along with every tech Sasuke has shown GTFOH

Yeah, it took OP changing it for you to finally have a point, but it's not like it matters anyway.

-Already addressed that Chidori PS Sword BS. Adding Raiton isn't giving him the power to cut through jack when
-PS Chidori=BM Naruto's regular Bijuu Dama<BSM Minato's regular Bijuu Dama....or it could be PS Chidori=100% Kurama's Bijuu Dama>Minato's regular Bijuu Dama. It depends on the size of Sasuke's PS if he were to lose Hagoromo's chakra. So it'd probably be the latter, but quite a bit stronger since he's stronger than he was as an Adult. Either way, Flash BD is stronger, and the Avatar can take much more than a Chidori in the league of a regular Bijuu Dama.

Rinnegan genjutsu perk is catching multiple opponents without eye contact having less chakra means nothing since genjutsu does not take any large amount of chakra to take control over beast like Full kurama let alone bm kurama and Minato

That's your baseless assumption and once again, I don't care for it. Rinnegan Genjutsu is a boosted Genjutsu. Why the hell would he get a boosted Genjutsu when the cause of the boost isn't here. It's really that simple.

 

[KidGamer65]

what are you even talking about why are you talking about his striking and movement speed he flatout dodges that FBD with or without ameno. If sasuke dodges it once and minato cant fire in a row then why are we dabting this coz then sasuke will have dodged the attack.

Are you really this stupid? Where is the proof? Where are the speed feats? I already said he can dodge with Ameno, give me proof he can dodge without. And please don't use buffed Sasuke's feats.

You said minato is at a close range when he fires that FBD then tell me what if sasuke just decides to switch places with minato just before the attack hits him? What are you gonna tell me that minato reacts at that split second and evades? if so im done with you haha.

When the attack hits him, Minato teleports it as he can warp anything in contact with his chakra. Lmfao. Or he curls up and takes the explosion while Sasuke is still caught in the center. Try again dumbass.

you said i copy and pasted waltz argument into mine, so what? we are both arguing against you? if he says something that benefits my side of the argument im gonna use it against you lmao. Waltz said how sasuke gets by kurama avatar and you havent said shit you just ignored it and said i copy and pasted his argument. WELL COUNTER IT THEN.

I'm not arguing against him you dumb shit. Lmfao. I'm arguing against you clowns. The only reason I'm still arguing is because you people replied to ME. Not vice versa. If someone wants to counter Waltz, they can go right ahead (Already did in fact).

@KG i love how for every other way that someone came to you with that Ameno GG crap you always had a way to counter it but since i added the Bansho tenin combo to it all youve said is that my argument says that minato doesnt react coz i said so. Everything youve said so far against that combo is minato reacts so you are literally just saying the opposite to me. NOt really countering the combo like you were for every other possible way for sasuke to win that was thrown at you.

I did counter it. You just keep crying about how it's not a counter because you don't disagree. BT does not pull instantly, and there are no feats of it pulling so fast that Minato wouldn't be able to react.

When Sasuke cast the genjutsu on the bijuu and place them in CT he was low on chakra from his battle with madara and kaguya. So I don't see why couldn't do the same without sage chakra and 100% chakra.. Not to mention his Chaka has grown even more, proof of dimension swapping.

Wow. You people don't understand the concept of "BUFFED CHAKRA". Do you? If you guys were this thirsty to give Rinnegan Sasuke his Rikudo feats, you should've just made it Rikudo Sasuke against BSM Minato. Lmfao.

 

[iNotorious]

Are you really this stupid? Where is the proof? Where are the speed feats? I already said he can dodge with Ameno, give me proof he can dodge without. And please don't use buffed Sasuke's feats.



When the attack hits him, Minato teleports it as he can warp anything in contact with his chakra. Lmfao. Or he curls up and takes the explosion while Sasuke is still caught in the center. Try again dumbass.





I'm not arguing against him you dumb shit. Lmfao. I'm arguing against you clowns. The only reason I'm still arguing is because you people replied to ME. Not vice versa. If someone wants to counter Waltz, they can go right ahead (Already did in fact).




I did counter it. You just keep crying about how it's not a counter because you don't disagree. BT does not pull instantly, and there are no feats of it pulling so fast that Minato wouldn't be able to react.



Wow. You people don't understand the concept of "BUFFED CHAKRA". Do you? If you guys were this thirsty to give Rinnegan Sasuke his Rikudo feats, you should've just made it Rikudo Sasuke against BSM Minato. Lmfao.

If that's true then the OP should change the opening statement lol.

 

[~Ethereal~]

Very interesting, will read later. <3

 

[Bronze]

Your thread makes no sense. Rinnegan is the Rikudou power he received from Hagoromo, so he's maintaining it while you're taking the power-up from him makes no sense. But let's give it a hypothetical perspective view: Sasuke wins mid difficulty.

Gaiden Sasuke is an adult with a wife and teenage kid, so he is presumably as old as Madara was in his fight against Hashirama. Therefore, he reached the potential to use Perfect Susanoo with equivalent skill and power to Madara, with the power to destroy mountains and skill to conjunct PS with Rinnegan and Enton strategic combination. Perfect Susanoo is defensively and offensively superior to all Bijuu including Kurama, whether it has Perfect Jinchuuriki or not. Kurama could hardly tackle a mere Rasenshuriken, [

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]; Perfect Susanoo slashes produce far higher cutting power than Rasenshuriken could ever hope to. Any of it would demolish a BM avatar. Although Minato's FTG would make it hard for PS to land a hit, Rinnegan would ease the effort.

For Minato to teleport, he throws marked kunais around the battlefield. OP didn't clarify the location, but it doesn't matter. Chibaku Tensei's gravitational force would just absorb anything, which include the marked kunais. Ay with his human eyesight could tell where every kunai was placed, [

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] so Sasuke with Rinnegan and EMS should do better. After Chibaku Tensei absorbs every kunai, Minato will have no where to teleport. So Sasuke prepares a

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and conjunct Amenotejikara to teleport Minato at close range to give him a fatal blow. [

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]

 

[DHOH]

@ Kidgamer
I didn't change anything... Your opinion that Sasuke can't use his powers that was shown in the manga without sage chakra, and it's my opinion he can... I'm not going to sit here an argue about opinions because that's just stupid... The manga never stated Sasuke can now use PS chidori, PS Ameno, and Genjutsu along with CT only because he has Sage chakra..

Sasuke already has Buff,Strong,potent, cold and powerful chakra.. Sage only makes it more Buff,Strong,potent, cold and powerful.. Example: sasuke use rinnengan genjutsu with sage chakra. He'll probably use about 3% of his chakra and your average shinobi has 1% chance of breaking it... With out sage chakra he use 15% of his chakra and the average shinobi has 10% chance of breaking it.. That's how I look at it.

@Bronze
Of course it's a made up thread 50% of battle threads are.. He'll Henri Sasuke is made up because now hebi Sasike its gadien assume with one arm and no CS OR EMS AND RINNENGAN.