Confederdate Flag Banned: Agree, Disagree or Neutral?

Yes Or nah?

  • I agree to ban the flag

    Votes: 19 67.9%
  • I disagree to ban the flag

    Votes: 4 14.3%
  • I don't care about it

    Votes: 5 17.9%
  • I feel some type of way but not really all for the ban

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I feel some type of way but kinda for keeping it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

Sennin of Logic

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Apple is banning apps on iTunes that uses a Confederate flag and they seem to be doing it right,

Their statement:

“We have removed apps from the App Store that use the Confederate flag in offensive or mean-spirited ways, which is in violation of our guidelines. We are not removing apps that display the Confederate flag for educational or historical uses.”

That's not what they're doing though. What they say, and what they do are 2 different things entirely.




They say they're taking out only the offensively used things, but they're actually targeting everything. "Offensive" is an entirely subjective thing, so it's absurdly easy to label something as it.
 
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Mayweather

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No more america! No more! We the negroe will not accept injustice and racism anymore. The flag is racist and is a symbol of hate which was used to oppress the negroes. Use it in your HOUSE! It doesn't have any use hanging high in a government building it should be kept in museum where people can come and see it and remind themselves of all the hardships the negroes endured.
 

slimreaper

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No more america! No more! We the negroe will not accept injustice and racism anymore. The flag is racist and is a symbol of hate which was used to oppress the negroes. Use it in your HOUSE! It doesn't have any use hanging high in a government building it should be kept in museum where people can come and see it and remind themselves of all the hardships the negroes endured.

What are you the negro gonna do about it?
 

Mayweather

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What are you the negro gonna do about it?

The negro has already done something by pressuring the governments through peaceful protests and speaking out through black community leaders. The governor has called for the flag to be removed, and a congress man has filled the proceedings. Something is being done already BOOM!!!!

Republicans will never win this country again. I will vote for any democratic candidate rather than a racist republiKKKan.
 
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slimreaper

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The negro has already done something by pressuring the governments through peaceful protests and speaking out through black community leaders. The governor has called for the flag to be removed, and a congress man has filled the proceedings. Something is being done already BOOM!!!!

Republicans will never win this country again. I will vote for any democratic candidate rather than a racist republiKKKan.

meanwhile democrats keep blacks under their thumb with government subsidies.


liberals keep blacks in the ghettos while telling you they are helping you. so by all means keep voting for them, it's better for me the white man.

[video=youtube;2GklCBvS-eI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GklCBvS-eI[/video]
 

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meanwhile democrats keep blacks under their thumb with government subsidies.


liberals keep blacks in the ghettos while telling you they are helping you. so by all means keep voting for them, it's better for me the white man.

[video=youtube;2GklCBvS-eI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GklCBvS-eI[/video]
Yes by giving poor blacks food and shelter they are keeping us in ghetto. Brilliant!! I will keep voting! Next up hilary clinton!
 

slimreaper

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Yes by giving poor blacks food and shelter they are keeping us in ghetto. Brilliant!! I will keep voting! Next up hilary clinton!

Only if they stay poor. If the succeed even to a moderate extent, the money is taken away. Stay in the ghetto see who gives a ****
 

Aim64C

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I don't even think you understand what you're trying to argue. The confederate flag without a doubt comes from a place of hate. Of course it can be said that it does not solely represent racism, however it still comes from that place of hate; oddly, just like the swastika.

No, it doesn't come from a place of hate.

The Confederate Flag comes from a group of states who rebelled against the over-reach of Federal authority. Ironically - just what is happening, now.

It was a symbol of their decision to part ways with the Union.

Remember - it was the Union that declared war upon the Confederacy. The states wanted to leave and do their own thing. The North said "No" and struck out in order to impose tax collections and various fees from the South that had declared itself independent.

The only reason there was a war is because the Union refused to let go of its revenue stream.

I don't understand why you're trying to justify this flag. You're disregarding blatant facts because people say it doesn't come from a place of hate when they use it. Which is exactly what black youths say when they say the n-word as a term of brotherly love(or whatever we're calling it these days).

Little Banshee, have they so thoroughly brainwashed you that you have no idea what a fact is?

Define: "Place of hate"

What is it?

Where is this place? What makes it hateful?

Can you not THINK anymore!?

You must be registered for see images


That guy is a hero, right?

Fought for liberation?

You must be registered for see images


This guy is an internet celebrity and cultural icon who just goes around killing people and destroying things for no reason.

You must be registered for see images


Oh, don't they look so happy?

The Confederate Flag was born as a symbol of a collection of states attempting to become a separate nation because they wished to self-govern once again. It does not come from "hate."



"Plenty of contemporary Southern leaders and pundits pointed out the contradiction, with one Confederate officer raging that arming slaves would “contravene the principles upon which we fight,” and the Charleston Mercury warning on January 13, 1865, “We want no Confederate government without our institutions.” Even after the bill passed, Confederate Secretary of State Robert Toombs (top, right) wrote in a private letter to a friend on March 24, 1865:

In my opinion, the worst calamity that could befall us would be to gain our independence by the valor of our slaves, instead of our own… The day the army of Virginia allows a negro regiment to enter their lines as soldiers, they will be degraded, ruined, and disgraced. But if you put our negroes and white men into the army together, you must and will put them on an equality; they must be under the same code, the same pay, allowances and clothing… Therefore, it is a surrender of the entire slavery question.

However, the question was finally settled by the intervention of general in chief Robert E. Lee (top, left), who had already attained mythic status in the South. After President Lincoln rejected offers of a negotiated peace and Congress freed the slaves with the Thirteenth Amendment, Lee and Confederate President Jefferson Davis (top, center) were at last able to persuade the Confederate Congress to take the fateful step, with Lee arguing that it was “not only expedient but necessary,” adding, “We must decide whether slavery shall be extinguished by our enemies and the slaves be used against us, or use them ourselves.” "


While the concept of slavery was part of the cause of the war - racism, and hate, certainly wasn't a large part. Many whites were slaves within the South, as well (Union soldiers commented as much: ). The concept of slavery was necessarily a master-servant relationship.

By voiding that relationship - it was logical that these people would become equal members of society. Freedom of slaves was nothing new to the South:



"Blacks in Mississippi, and elsewhere in the South, became free in several ways. Prior to 1825, it was common and legal for slaves to become free either by purchasing their freedom or by slaveholders freeing them. Beginning in the mid-1820s, both forms of emancipation became increasingly less common and even illegal. The primary pathways to free status for blacks were blocked."

Note that this was following Federal action to close down the international slave trade. While I am not advocating for the slave trade - it is an observation that the State placed limitations upon the ability to free slaves out of concerns that they would not be able to replace the labor demand left behind by freed slaves.



"In a fascinating essay reviewing this controversy, R. Halliburton shows that free black people have owned slaves “in each of the thirteen original states and later in every state that countenanced slavery,” at least since Anthony Johnson and his wife Mary went to court in Virginia in 1654 to obtain the services of their indentured servant, a black man, John Castor, for life.

And for a time, free black people could even “own” the services of white indentured servants in Virginia as well. Free blacks owned slaves in Boston by 1724 and in Connecticut by 1783; by 1790, 48 black people in Maryland owned 143 slaves. One particularly notorious black Maryland farmer named Nat Butler “regularly purchased and sold Negroes for the Southern trade,” Halliburton wrote.

Perhaps the most insidious or desperate attempt to defend the right of black people to own slaves was the statement made on the eve of the Civil War by a group of free people of color in New Orleans, offering their services to the Confederacy, in part because they were fearful for their own enslavement: “The free colored population [native] of Louisiana … own slaves, and they are dearly attached to their native land … and they are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana … They will fight for her in 1861 as they fought [to defend New Orleans from the British] in 1814-1815.”"


Free blacks owned slaves.

Whatever you're trying to prove here, it isn't working. Just because a man who was shot in a racially motivated shooting voted to put up the flag doesn't take away the meaning of the flag. That just means he was insensitive to it, regardless of his race.

He didn't think it was motivated by hatred.

He didn't have a problem with displaying it.

Where do you get off using his death to justify your hatred for an image?

This is entirely fine, because look at the preface of the statement. This is her interpretation of the flag. A flag that, as you said earlier, represents the want for 'freedom'. That doesn't mean the flag doesn't come from a place of slavery and racism, it just means it also stands for freedom of sorts.

So a State can't fly the flag as a display of freedom?

Here:



Read through that.

They cite their claims and historical examples.

It's an interesting read, even if you do believe it is, perhaps, a view through tinted glasses.

For example:

"Reading twenty-first century histories of the antebellum period War between the States and talking to the historians who write them, we expect to see two processes in race relations in the antebellum South. First, we expect to see people of color in the South eager to escape the clutches of a violently racist South. We also expect to see white southerners eager to be rid of all black people whom they cannot control. What we, in fact, see in these Mississippi legislative petitions are two unexpected trends. We see white men going well out of their way to ask that free people of color be allowed to remain in their communities because they were well-behaved, industrious and simply because it would be just to allow them to stay. Next, we see free people of color asking to be allowed to stay in Mississippi to be near their families, and even, in many cases, expressing a willingness to become slaves in exchange for the privilege of remaining in the state. In some cases, these free people of color valued their home and families more than their freedom."

This was in regard to laws being passed in Mississippi that would require free blacks to leave the State.

Another interesting point:

"Some slaves who were manumitted and left for the north found freedom to be not as advantageous as they had supposed. In February, the Memphis Appeal reported that six negroes had returned to the South. Six years prior, these slaves had been “set at liberty” and had moved to New York. After six years of freedom, they had “returned to slavery in Helena Arkansas.” The free blacks told the whites in Helena that they “preferred Southern slavery to Northern liberty.”[10] White southerners loved this type of story because it “proved” their notions that slavery was natural for black people, and some blacks preferred it to freedom in the North. The fact remains, however, that, assuming the story is true,[11] these free black people came back to Arkansas, preferring life in the South to that in the North, even if life in the South meant returning to slavery."

There is much, much more to the issue of slavery and race relations in the South than what you have been taught, Little Banshee.

While there were certainly injustices - and, I would argue - slavery itself is an injustice; the depiction of the South as being cruel and hateful during these times is nothing more than political smoke and mirrors to agitate pliable minds.
 

Multiply

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No, it doesn't come from a place of hate.

The Confederate Flag comes from a group of states who rebelled against the over-reach of Federal authority. Ironically - just what is happening, now.

It was a symbol of their decision to part ways with the Union.

Remember - it was the Union that declared war upon the Confederacy. The states wanted to leave and do their own thing. The North said "No" and struck out in order to impose tax collections and various fees from the South that had declared itself independent.

The only reason there was a war is because the Union refused to let go of its revenue stream.



Little Banshee, have they so thoroughly brainwashed you that you have no idea what a fact is?

Define: "Place of hate"

What is it?

Where is this place? What makes it hateful?

Can you not THINK anymore!?

You must be registered for see images


That guy is a hero, right?

Fought for liberation?

You must be registered for see images


This guy is an internet celebrity and cultural icon who just goes around killing people and destroying things for no reason.

You must be registered for see images


Oh, don't they look so happy?

The Confederate Flag was born as a symbol of a collection of states attempting to become a separate nation because they wished to self-govern once again. It does not come from "hate."



"Plenty of contemporary Southern leaders and pundits pointed out the contradiction, with one Confederate officer raging that arming slaves would “contravene the principles upon which we fight,” and the Charleston Mercury warning on January 13, 1865, “We want no Confederate government without our institutions.” Even after the bill passed, Confederate Secretary of State Robert Toombs (top, right) wrote in a private letter to a friend on March 24, 1865:

In my opinion, the worst calamity that could befall us would be to gain our independence by the valor of our slaves, instead of our own… The day the army of Virginia allows a negro regiment to enter their lines as soldiers, they will be degraded, ruined, and disgraced. But if you put our negroes and white men into the army together, you must and will put them on an equality; they must be under the same code, the same pay, allowances and clothing… Therefore, it is a surrender of the entire slavery question.

However, the question was finally settled by the intervention of general in chief Robert E. Lee (top, left), who had already attained mythic status in the South. After President Lincoln rejected offers of a negotiated peace and Congress freed the slaves with the Thirteenth Amendment, Lee and Confederate President Jefferson Davis (top, center) were at last able to persuade the Confederate Congress to take the fateful step, with Lee arguing that it was “not only expedient but necessary,” adding, “We must decide whether slavery shall be extinguished by our enemies and the slaves be used against us, or use them ourselves.” "


While the concept of slavery was part of the cause of the war - racism, and hate, certainly wasn't a large part. Many whites were slaves within the South, as well (Union soldiers commented as much: ). The concept of slavery was necessarily a master-servant relationship.

By voiding that relationship - it was logical that these people would become equal members of society. Freedom of slaves was nothing new to the South:



"Blacks in Mississippi, and elsewhere in the South, became free in several ways. Prior to 1825, it was common and legal for slaves to become free either by purchasing their freedom or by slaveholders freeing them. Beginning in the mid-1820s, both forms of emancipation became increasingly less common and even illegal. The primary pathways to free status for blacks were blocked."

Note that this was following Federal action to close down the international slave trade. While I am not advocating for the slave trade - it is an observation that the State placed limitations upon the ability to free slaves out of concerns that they would not be able to replace the labor demand left behind by freed slaves.



"In a fascinating essay reviewing this controversy, R. Halliburton shows that free black people have owned slaves “in each of the thirteen original states and later in every state that countenanced slavery,” at least since Anthony Johnson and his wife Mary went to court in Virginia in 1654 to obtain the services of their indentured servant, a black man, John Castor, for life.

And for a time, free black people could even “own” the services of white indentured servants in Virginia as well. Free blacks owned slaves in Boston by 1724 and in Connecticut by 1783; by 1790, 48 black people in Maryland owned 143 slaves. One particularly notorious black Maryland farmer named Nat Butler “regularly purchased and sold Negroes for the Southern trade,” Halliburton wrote.

Perhaps the most insidious or desperate attempt to defend the right of black people to own slaves was the statement made on the eve of the Civil War by a group of free people of color in New Orleans, offering their services to the Confederacy, in part because they were fearful for their own enslavement: “The free colored population [native] of Louisiana … own slaves, and they are dearly attached to their native land … and they are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana … They will fight for her in 1861 as they fought [to defend New Orleans from the British] in 1814-1815.”"


Free blacks owned slaves.



He didn't think it was motivated by hatred.

He didn't have a problem with displaying it.

Where do you get off using his death to justify your hatred for an image?



So a State can't fly the flag as a display of freedom?

Here:



Read through that.

They cite their claims and historical examples.

It's an interesting read, even if you do believe it is, perhaps, a view through tinted glasses.

For example:

"Reading twenty-first century histories of the antebellum period War between the States and talking to the historians who write them, we expect to see two processes in race relations in the antebellum South. First, we expect to see people of color in the South eager to escape the clutches of a violently racist South. We also expect to see white southerners eager to be rid of all black people whom they cannot control. What we, in fact, see in these Mississippi legislative petitions are two unexpected trends. We see white men going well out of their way to ask that free people of color be allowed to remain in their communities because they were well-behaved, industrious and simply because it would be just to allow them to stay. Next, we see free people of color asking to be allowed to stay in Mississippi to be near their families, and even, in many cases, expressing a willingness to become slaves in exchange for the privilege of remaining in the state. In some cases, these free people of color valued their home and families more than their freedom."

This was in regard to laws being passed in Mississippi that would require free blacks to leave the State.

Another interesting point:

"Some slaves who were manumitted and left for the north found freedom to be not as advantageous as they had supposed. In February, the Memphis Appeal reported that six negroes had returned to the South. Six years prior, these slaves had been “set at liberty” and had moved to New York. After six years of freedom, they had “returned to slavery in Helena Arkansas.” The free blacks told the whites in Helena that they “preferred Southern slavery to Northern liberty.”[10] White southerners loved this type of story because it “proved” their notions that slavery was natural for black people, and some blacks preferred it to freedom in the North. The fact remains, however, that, assuming the story is true,[11] these free black people came back to Arkansas, preferring life in the South to that in the North, even if life in the South meant returning to slavery."

There is much, much more to the issue of slavery and race relations in the South than what you have been taught, Little Banshee.

While there were certainly injustices - and, I would argue - slavery itself is an injustice; the depiction of the South as being cruel and hateful during these times is nothing more than political smoke and mirrors to agitate pliable minds.

You keep hopping off on tangents when you've already proven me right. The confederate flag is inherently a racist symbol and stands for slavery and hatred, among other things(Such as freedom).

While the concept of slavery was part of the cause of the war - racism, and hate, certainly wasn't a large part. Many whites were slaves within the South, as well (Union soldiers commented as much: ). The concept of slavery was necessarily a master-servant relationship.

You've said it here yourself. As for whites being slaves, that's to be expected. It's like me telling you there were black slave masters, therefore slavery was not that bad for blacks.
 

slimreaper

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You keep hopping off on tangents when you've already proven me right. The confederate flag is inherently a racist symbol and stands for slavery and hatred, among other things(Such as freedom).



You've said it here yourself. As for whites being slaves, that's to be expected. It's like me telling you there were black slave masters, therefore slavery was not that bad for blacks.

Basically you're saying " I don't care about your character or actions, what matters is what flag you fly". You can't see the forest for the trees. You can't get past appearances to see someone's intent. the context of the flags use is important.

If used at a klan rally it's obivously being flown as a racist symbol. if being flown on the capitol grounds its context/intent is clearly different
 

Punk Hazard

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Just change the meaning the flag is meant to represent.
 

Funky Tiger

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HEY HEY HEY did aim64c just diss The Joker?

hahaha you have messed with higher powers now. RIP.
 

Aim64C

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You keep hopping off on tangents when you've already proven me right. The confederate flag is inherently a racist symbol and stands for slavery and hatred, among other things(Such as freedom).

Little Banshee, you have not answered my questions.

What is racist about the Southern Cross?

What is hateful about it?

Tell me.

You've said it here yourself. As for whites being slaves, that's to be expected. It's like me telling you there were black slave masters, therefore slavery was not that bad for blacks.

You're pretty good at not reading.

Try that again.

HEY HEY HEY did aim64c just diss The Joker?

hahaha you have messed with higher powers now. RIP.

Did you ever stop to consider that I may just be the Joker?
 
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Multiply

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Basically you're saying " I don't care about your character or actions, what matters is what flag you fly". You can't see the forest for the trees. You can't get past appearances to see someone's intent. the context of the flags use is important.

If used at a klan rally it's obivously being flown as a racist symbol. if being flown on the capitol grounds its context/intent is clearly different

But the other context still exists. Just because you say it's for something else, doesn't mean it automatically loses its previous meaning. Just like the N-word. Blacks can say the N-word and use it as a term of friendship all they like, that doesn't mean that word does not come from a bad place.

Little Banshee, you have not answered my questions.

What is racist about the Southern Cross?

What is hateful about it?

Tell me.

I've already said why. Your argument is weak.
 

Aim64C

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But the other context still exists. Just because you say it's for something else, doesn't mean it automatically loses its previous meaning. Just like the N-word. Blacks can say the N-word and use it as a term of friendship all they like, that doesn't mean that word does not come from a bad place.

Each and every person on the planet has a different perspective context for each and every word, each and every image, etc.

Some people think clowns are funny.

Other people, like me, saw the movie "It" as a child and never found clowns to be funny. We find them to be quite creepy.

Lady Ga-Ga songs induce flashbacks in me to the prom of my girlfriend at the time. It was the night my father passed away and one of the single most troubled nights in my relationship with her (that I place a lot of blame upon myself for). It's been five years, and those songs will still induce flashbacks.

When I hear black people calling each other ******s - I deal with it. I talk to them much like I would talk to any other person and just let the ****** terminology slide.

I don't go around clubbing black people over the head for calling each other ******s, and I don't go around smashing radios that play lady gaga.

I don't expect other people to continuously adjust their life and imagery just for my "other perspective" that exists.

I've already said why. Your argument is weak.

Quote yourself so I know what you think is an appropriate response to my questions. We're obviously failing to communicate, here, Little Banshee.
 

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I'm all for freedom of choice, in most cases, and I'm all for honoring the Southern soldiers who died in the Civil War, and I'm all for looking back on our history and seeing the Confederacy as more than just mere machine of slavery.

But that flag needed to go. It may be a way of "honoring heritage" but the CSA is for the most part, a dark time in American history. People can disagree about what it mainly represents, but the flag is still the flag of a nation whose economy was built on the backs of slaves.
 

slimreaper

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I'm all for freedom of choice, in most cases, and I'm all for honoring the Southern soldiers who died in the Civil War, and I'm all for looking back on our history and seeing the Confederacy as more than just mere machine of slavery.

But that flag needed to go. It may be a way of "honoring heritage" but the CSA is for the most part, a dark time in American history. People can disagree about what it mainly represents, but the flag is still the flag of a nation whose economy was built on the backs of slaves.

this is the hipocrisy of the north. On one hand they denounced slavery. So their words we're against slavery. Their actions however we're pro slavery. They placed restrictions on the south trading the product anywhere but the south.

If the northern climate wasn't so harsh, odds are we would still have slavery in America today, as it would have been feasible for them as well
 

HiddenSound

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this is the hipocrisy of the north. On one hand they denounced slavery. So their words we're against slavery. Their actions however we're pro slavery. They placed restrictions on the south trading the product anywhere but the south.

If the northern climate wasn't so harsh, odds are we would still have slavery in America today, as it would have been feasible for them as well
I'm from the South.. I don't even understand the rest of what you said.
Except that last part, which is baseless and pointless.
 
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