[Discussion] Zoro would have fodderized....,

[Mugiwara kun]

He won't win, but he'd definitely fare better than Sanji since he is stronger than Sanji. The gap between Luffy/Zoro/Sanji is the same

So you're saying if Zoro and sanji went at it,Sanji won't be able to push Zoro to extreme diff? Or to use ashura? I do believe Zoro and Sanji are closer than anyone will like to admit but plot favours Zoro more because of his promise to never loose again. It's Why he isn't ever going to be outclassed. He even managed to throw an attack At Fuji despite being under the influence of gravity Which doesn't make any sense as law couldn't move until Fuji got distracted. So plot favours Zoro than Sanji but u believe we will see How strong Sanji is soon

 

[Punk Hazard]

So you're saying if Zoro and sanji went at it,Sanji won't be able to push Zoro to extreme diff? Or to use ashura? I do believe Zoro and Sanji are closer than anyone will like to admit but plot favours Zoro more because of his promise to never loose again. It's Why he isn't ever going to be outclassed. He even managed to throw an attack At Fuji despite being under the influence of gravity Which doesn't make any sense as law couldn't move until Fuji got distracted. So plot favours Zoro than Sanji but u believe we will see How strong Sanji is soon

That's not even a good excuse, he lost to Kuma and Fujitora.

 

[Bogard]

That's not the point of the comparison. At all. The point is to show that one technique having more destructive power doesn't make it better than one that has less, nor does it mean it would win in a clash.

The comparison has nothing to do with heat.

It depends. For example, Sabo can use fire too, but his fire was strong enough to destroy the coloseum bottom floor. Sanji's fire? Not so much

So you're saying if Zoro and sanji went at it,Sanji won't be able to push Zoro to extreme diff? Or to use ashura? I do believe Zoro and Sanji are closer than anyone will like to admit but plot favours Zoro more because of his promise to never loose again. It's Why he isn't ever going to be outclassed. He even managed to throw an attack At Fuji despite being under the influence of gravity Which doesn't make any sense as law couldn't move until Fuji got distracted. So plot favours Zoro than Sanji but u believe we will see How strong Sanji is soon

I respect your opinion, but i disagree. I think he can push him to high at most. I think Killer has more chances to push Zoro to extreme than Sanji. His feats are better, portrayal is better, hype is better, everything is better

 

[Punk Hazard]

It depends. For example, Sabo can use fire too, but his fire was strong enough to destroy the coloseum bottom floor. Sanji's fire? Not so much


I respect your opinion, but i disagree. I think he can push him to high at most. I think Killer has more chances to push Zoro to extreme than Sanji. His feats are better, portrayal is better, hype is better, everything is better

I can do nothing but sigh at this point.

 

[Bogard]

I can do nothing but sigh at this point.

I don't get it. Hell Memories is all about heat, and my point is that the heat of the attack itself isn't that high to begin with

 

[bajram]

Doflamingo gives Zoro the Sanji treatment.

So Doflamingo wins low/mid diff, actually leaning more on low but anyway, being generous.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I don't get it. Hell Memories is all about heat, and my point is that the heat of the attack itself isn't that high to begin with

It's not as high as Akainu's, maybe, and it may not be as hot as Sabo's/Ace's(the manga is contrary to this. Sanji's fire has caused burn marks, Ace's never have despite making full contact with people with their guards down). The point isn't about the heat, but that causing more destruction to the area doesn't make it a stronger attack, or an attack that would win against one that does less destruction to the area.

What I'm trying to say is, Sanji doesn't need to be able to destroy mountains with one blow to push Zoro or anyone else capable of doing so.

 

[Mugiwara kun]

I still maintain we Haven't seen much of Sanji. He got one panelled against Doffy and lost against a haki beast (vergo). He's fought against people he had no chance of winning. If Sanji fought against Pica, it would have been easy (smarter than Zoro So could have figured Pica's ability earlier and he can sky walk) and if Zoro fought doffy and Vergo, he wouldn't have won.

BTW Am Not a sanji fan but just always pissed At the fact that people seem to assume he can't push Zoro like they are Not in the same tier when he has been portrayed to be Zoro's rival in the SH since the very beginning.

Besides,everyone knows the M3 is close in terms of strength So Why will Zoro leave Sanji in the rear view mirror all of a sudden when we still Haven't seen anything from Sanji

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I still maintain we Haven't seen much of Sanji. He got one panelled against Doffy and lost against a haki beast (vergo). He's fought against people he had no chance of winning. If Sanji fought against Pica, it would have been easy (smarter than Zoro So could have figured Pica's ability earlier and he can sky walk) and if Zoro fought doffy and Vergo, he wouldn't have won.

BTW Am Not a sanji fan but just always pissed At the fact that people seem to assume he can't push Zoro like they are Not in the same tier when he has been portrayed to be Zoro's rival in the SH since the very beginning.

Besides,everyone knows the M3 is close in terms of strength So Why will Zoro leave Sanji in the rear view mirror all of a sudden when we still Haven't seen anything from Sanji

Notice how he didn't use Haki against Vergo AND was already injured thanks to Caesar and Nami

He wasn't one panelled by Doffy. In fact, it was almost an entire chapter of fighting. Which is around the same as what Law could achieve on top of the palace.

The fact you are implying it's a shame to be a Sanji fan shows just how dismal the base is. It shows just how many zoro wankers are out there and just how much hate and underrating there is for Sanji

 

[Punk Hazard]

Notice how he didn't use Haki against Vergo AND was already injured thanks to Caesar and Nami

He wasn't one panelled by Doffy. In fact, it was almost an entire chapter of fighting. Which is around the same as what Law could achieve on top of the palace.

The fact you are implying it's a shame to be a Sanji fan shows just how dismal the base is. It shows just how many zoro wankers are out there and just how much hate and underrating there is for Sanji

Meanwhile, Vergo didn't use Haki, his Bamboo stick, Rokushiki, and was fighting in Sanji's area of expertise, not his own. I'm a huge Sanji fan, but seriously, "he didn't use Haki and was injured" ain't gonna cut what happened with Vergo.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Meanwhile, Vergo didn't use Haki, his Bamboo stick, Rokushiki, and was fighting in Sanji's area of expertise, not his own. I'm a huge Sanji fan, but seriously, "he didn't use Haki and was injured" ain't gonna cut what happened with Vergo.

Have you considered the possibility that Sanji's Busoshoku Haki could've and probably would've been stronger than Vergo's? If this was the case then the leg break wouldn't have happened and it's likely Sanji would've overpowered him. Regardless of this, Sanji kept on fighting even with the slight fracture, so it wasn't a Sanji defeat in the first place. Since neither of them used Haki, Vergo came out as advantageous although not the victor, with superior Haki, Sanji would've made up for this and most likely overtaken Vergo in brute strength. Sanji most definitely underestimated him which would've also led to, or at least contributed to his slight fracture

On top of this, Sanji never used Hells Memories and only used Diable Jambe for one kick. All the while being injured by Caesar and fatigued because of Nami running around constantly in his body. This means that Sanji wasn't even as strong as his regular base level when fighting Vergo.

Skill (i.e. Fully body) doesn't correlate to the strength of your haki, just look at Zoro vs Pica as a prime example of this. So it's not a bad shout to say Sanji's Busoshoku Haki is stronger. Luffy himself said that Sanji CAN use Busoshoku Haki, and therefore we can't dismiss this as many people love to do.

 

[Bogard]

I still maintain we Haven't seen much of Sanji. He got one panelled against Doffy and lost against a haki beast (vergo). He's fought against people he had no chance of winning. If Sanji fought against Pica, it would have been easy (smarter than Zoro So could have figured Pica's ability earlier and he can sky walk) and if Zoro fought doffy and Vergo, he wouldn't have won.

BTW Am Not a sanji fan but just always pissed At the fact that people seem to assume he can't push Zoro like they are Not in the same tier when he has been portrayed to be Zoro's rival in the SH since the very beginning.

Besides,everyone knows the M3 is close in terms of strength So Why will Zoro leave Sanji in the rear view mirror all of a sudden when we still Haven't seen anything from Sanji

Zoro is stronger than Vergo. Vergo has been tagged in all the fights he has been by characters having as much if not less striking speed than Zoro and Zoro has much more destructive capacity than them and strong armament himself. His high end attacks will finish Vergo and unlike Pica, he has no way to hide. He won't win against Doflamingo though, but i think he can push him to mid difficulty. Localizing Pica isn't everything. Sanji lacks the destructive capacity feat to put the golem down. The truth is that you just want it to be the case because Sanji was dominated by those combattants

Let's put it this way. Do you think Apoo can push Kid to extreme difficulty?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Have you considered the possibility that Sanji's Busoshoku Haki could've and probably would've been stronger than Vergo's? If this was the case then the leg break wouldn't have happened and it's likely Sanji would've overpowered him. Regardless of this, Sanji kept on fighting even with the slight fracture, so it wasn't a Sanji defeat in the first place. Since neither of them used Haki, Vergo came out as advantageous although not the victor, with superior Haki, Sanji would've made up for this and most likely overtaken Vergo in brute strength. Sanji most definitely underestimated him which would've also led to, or at least contributed to his slight fracture

On top of this, Sanji never used Hells Memories and only used Diable Jambe for one kick. All the while being injured by Caesar and fatigued because of Nami running around constantly in his body. This means that Sanji wasn't even as strong as his regular base level when fighting Vergo.

Skill (i.e. Fully body) doesn't correlate to the strength of your haki, just look at Zoro vs Pica as a prime example of this. So it's not a bad shout to say Sanji's Busoshoku Haki is stronger. Luffy himself said that Sanji CAN use Busoshoku Haki, and therefore we can't dismiss this as many people love to do.

I considered that possibility yes, but nothing indicates that. I don't run with what-ifs. I could just as easily say there's the possibility that Vergo's Haki would shatter Sanji's and that Vergo is much faster. I go by what we've seen, not scenarios to make myself feel better about the character I favor being portrayed as weaker. Vergo was far more held back, and still came out on top. End of story.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I considered that possibility yes, but nothing indicates that. I don't run with what-ifs. I could just as easily say there's the possibility that Vergo's Haki would shatter Sanji's and that Vergo is much faster. I go by what we've seen, not scenarios to make myself feel better about the character I favor being portrayed as weaker. Vergo was far more held back, and still came out on top. End of story.

That's illogical, as Sanji is the fastest of the M3 AND being part of the M3, must be close to Zoro, Law and Luffy in terms of power, and we saw how easily they disposed of the top executives, including Pica who, according to family titles was superior to Vergo. So logically, through scaling Sanji at full power (using Hells Memories) would dispose of Vergo in a similar fashion to how Zoro disposed of Pica, a mid difficulty victory

So, Vergo was far more held back?

Vergo:
- Not using Haki
- Not using his Bamboo Stick, which makes NO difference at all
- Not using Rokushiki (although it's possible he used Tekkai, which would debunk this claim. Remember "he's like a mass of iron")

Sanji:
- Not using Haki
- Not using Hells Memories even once
- Using Diable Jambe just once
- Being fatigued because of Nami
- Not using Rokushiki (Sky Walk)
- Fatigued because of Caesars gas
- Had protection on his mind and was concerned for the wellbeing of G5, Tashigi and others, this could be seen as a distraction and considering the widespread effect of Hells Memories, would've further held him back

You're just being difficult for arguments sakes now and have too much pride to back down

 

[Punk Hazard]

That's illogical, as Sanji is the fastest of the M3 AND being part of the M3, must be close to Zoro, Law and Luffy in terms of power, and we saw how easily they disposed of the top executives, including Pica who, according to family titles was superior to Vergo. So logically, through scaling Sanji at full power (using Hells Memories) would dispose of Vergo in a similar fashion to how Zoro disposed of Pica, a mid difficulty victory

So, Vergo was far more held back?

Vergo:
- Not using Haki
- Not using his Bamboo Stick, which makes NO difference at all
- Not using Rokushiki (although it's possible he used Tekkai, which would debunk this claim. Remember "he's like a mass of iron")

Sanji:
- Not using Haki
- Not using Hells Memories even once
- Using Diable Jambe just once
- Being fatigued because of Nami
- Not using Rokushiki (Sky Walk)
- Fatigued because of Caesars gas
- Had protection on his mind and was concerned for the wellbeing of G5, Tashigi and others, this could be seen as a distraction and considering the widespread effect of Hells Memories, would've further held him back

You're just being difficult for arguments sakes now and have too much pride to back down

Hardly. Sanji lacked the power to even scratch Doffy, while both Luffy and Law were able to injure him, with the latter almost killing him. Luffy and Law are heads and shoulders ahead of Sanji. But anyways:

How does not using his Bamboo stick not make a difference? His bamboo is one of his major weapons, which is why he has the nickname Demon Bamboo. Taking away Vergo's bamboo would be the same as taking away a swordsman's sword, or Sanji's legs.

The only thing Sanji was held back from using was Hell Memories and Haki. He did use Sky Walk, and he did use Diable Jambe. Him using it once isn't an excuse for anything, one usage was enough to see that it wouldn't work on Vergo, and Vergo wasn't even using Haki. Vergo didn't use Haki, his main weapon, Geppou, Shigan, or Soru, and was fighting Sanji in the area that is Sanji's expertise, but not his own. Sanji was injured yes, but not fatigued. Protecting G5 and Tashigi would actually make him fight even harder, and Hell Memories wouldn't have even done anything to them if he had used it. That part makes absolutely no sense.

While Sanji was injured, the fact remains that he was fighting much harder than Vergo was, as Sanji held back two things while fighting in his expertise while Vergo held back five components of his fighting style, and was doing so in an area he doesn't even specialize in while Sanji does. The portrayal could not be more obvious.

 

[Anduril]

Obviously the OP is a troll, and intends to give Zoro fans a bad name. Best bet would be to ignore this thread.

There are 33 threads started by OP and has 69 posts, so he has only posted twice in his own threads at best.

Definitely not worth my time.

 

[ultraChalk]

I didn't know we were so bad at detecting bait.

 

[jiraiya lives]

Zoro doesn't have the speed to fck with mingo....His stronger attacks would do damage butwith the difference in speed I don't see him landing any shots on mingo. Maybe once he uses Asura and go all out then I'll put him on mingo's level but from what we've "seen" so far Zoro is a tier below... Dofly, gear 4 luffy and even pre gear 4 luffy> what we've seen from Zoro up until now. And this is coming from a zoro fanboy/occasional wanker

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Hardly. Sanji lacked the power to even scratch Doffy, while both Luffy and Law were able to injure him, with the latter almost killing him. Luffy and Law are heads and shoulders ahead of Sanji. But anyways:

How does not using his Bamboo stick not make a difference? His bamboo is one of his major weapons, which is why he has the nickname Demon Bamboo. Taking away Vergo's bamboo would be the same as taking away a swordsman's sword, or Sanji's legs.

The only thing Sanji was held back from using was Hell Memories and Haki. He did use Sky Walk, and he did use Diable Jambe. Him using it once isn't an excuse for anything, one usage was enough to see that it wouldn't work on Vergo, and Vergo wasn't even using Haki. Vergo didn't use Haki, his main weapon, Geppou, Shigan, or Soru, and was fighting Sanji in the area that is Sanji's expertise, but not his own. Sanji was injured yes, but not fatigued. Protecting G5 and Tashigi would actually make him fight even harder, and Hell Memories wouldn't have even done anything to them if he had used it. That part makes absolutely no sense.

While Sanji was injured, the fact remains that he was fighting much harder than Vergo was, as Sanji held back two things while fighting in his expertise while Vergo held back five components of his fighting style, and was doing so in an area he doesn't even specialize in while Sanji does. The portrayal could not be more obvious.

Taking his Bamboo away isn't the same as taking away Zoro's swords. Unlike Zoro, Vergo is a proven fighter without using his bamboo stick and given his LACK of fighting style, he wouldn't be effected by it, nor would he be at an advantage or disadvantage in any given type of fight. It's quite an easy concept to grasp.

Luffy AND Law... they tag teamed him and it took them both THREE attempts to injure him, and even then it required a surprise attack for anything (other than a cut cheek) to work, i.e. Red Hawk and Gamma Knife. How is that a reason to relegate Sanji? Doffy was able to claim Sanji was a "strong one", acknowledging his power. It's a shame he didn't tag team with somebody, cause then he would be held in a much higher regard, depending on someone else, so impressive.

He did not use Sky Walk. Clearly, not using Diable Jambe more than once means he didn't go all out. Wow. I'm impressed. And here I thought you were as intelligent as they could come on Narutobase. The fight in Sanji's area of expertise is irrelevant when you consider his injuries and fatigue. Again, if he does (and most likely does) have stronger Busoshoku Haki and they both used it then the fracture wouldn't have happened. Regardless of that, Sanji still fought normally, in base form (evidently not using full power), henceforth it's clear to see that it wasn't a victory or a defeat for either side. Protecting G5 and Tashigi would mean he wouldn't be able to use Hells Memories because of:
1. The widespread flames could hurt them
2. The explosive gas would probably end up killing them all if ignited, hence he couldn't fight at full power
Imagine the difference Diable Jambe would've made if he wasn't injured or fatigued. Now imagine that power being at least doubled through Hells Memories.

Vergo held back five components? Only components he held back in was Haki (as did Sanji) and bamboo which wouldn't have made much of a difference. He used Rokushiki, he used Tekkai most likely. Sanji was held back far more because of those around him and events that took place earlier in the arc. You can't deny that. Please tell me these other 3 or 4 components Vergo was held back by. Come on. I'm dying to know about these imaginary abilities he has.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Taking his Bamboo away isn't the same as taking away Zoro's swords. Unlike Zoro, Vergo is a proven fighter without using his bamboo stick and given his LACK of fighting style, he wouldn't be effected by it, nor would he be at an advantage or disadvantage in any given type of fight. It's quite an easy concept to grasp.

Luffy AND Law... they tag teamed him and it took them both THREE attempts to injure him, and even then it required a surprise attack for anything (other than a cut cheek) to work, i.e. Red Hawk and Gamma Knife. How is that a reason to relegate Sanji? Doffy was able to claim Sanji was a "strong one", acknowledging his power. It's a shame he didn't tag team with somebody, cause then he would be held in a much higher regard, depending on someone else, so impressive.

He did not use Sky Walk. Clearly, not using Diable Jambe more than once means he didn't go all out. Wow. I'm impressed. And here I thought you were as intelligent as they could come on Narutobase. The fight in Sanji's area of expertise is irrelevant when you consider his injuries and fatigue. Again, if he does (and most likely does) have stronger Busoshoku Haki and they both used it then the fracture wouldn't have happened. Regardless of that, Sanji still fought normally, in base form (evidently not using full power), henceforth it's clear to see that it wasn't a victory or a defeat for either side. Protecting G5 and Tashigi would mean he wouldn't be able to use Hells Memories because of:
1. The widespread flames could hurt them
2. The explosive gas would probably end up killing them all if ignited, hence he couldn't fight at full power
Imagine the difference Diable Jambe would've made if he wasn't injured or fatigued. Now imagine that power being at least doubled through Hells Memories.

Vergo held back five components? Only components he held back in was Haki (as did Sanji) and bamboo which wouldn't have made much of a difference. He used Rokushiki, he used Tekkai most likely. Sanji was held back far more because of those around him and events that took place earlier in the arc. You can't deny that. Please tell me these other 3 or 4 components Vergo was held back by. Come on. I'm dying to know about these imaginary abilities he has.

It's the same in that you are taking away a part of someone's arsenal that they heavily use and are extremely proficient in. His nickname in the OP world is versed around it, meaning it's something he uses often and consistently enough that that's how he's recognized in the OP world. It's a weapon. If Vergo had it, he could fight with martial arts and his signature weapon. Take it away, part of his arsenal is gone, meaning he can't do everything he could with it. That's not a hard concept to grasp.


I never denied that they had to tag-team him to land the attack, but the fact remains that the attack had enough power to reduce Doffy to near death. Sanji's moves didn't have the power to scratch him, while Luffy's Red Hawk had at least the ability to make Doffy spit up blood and wound his stomach. Yes, spitting up blood doesn't mean much anymore and the wound was superficial, but it was more than Sanji would accomplish with his blows. They had enough strength to physically cause damage to Doffy's body, Sanji didn't.

He used Sky Walk in his initial attack on Vergo. Not really. If Diable Jambe had no effect at first, using more times wouldn't really matter. Diable Jambe deals with scorching heat, if you can withstand the heat in one blow, chances are you wouldn't feel it in the others. 0 ten times is still 0. And I can easily say that if Vergo had stronger Busoshoku Haki, and he most likely does, the fracture would have happened either way.

1. They were far away from him and Vergo by the time Vergo had fractured his leg. He could have used Hell Memories and the fire wouldn't have gotten to them.
2. The gas wasn't close enough to his body, nor was it close enough to G5 for the explosion to get to them if it was caught.

Yes, five. 1. Soru 2. Geppou 3. Haki 4. Shigan 5. His signature weapon. Taking away Vergo's bamboo is the same as taking away Smoker's Jitte. They have ways to fight without it, but their combat would be better with it because it allows them to use their full arsenal.