HiddenSound
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I stopped reading at your first point. Blatant no limits fallacy.
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Unrestricted Juubito , JJ Madz and Toneri VS Kaguya
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I stopped reading at your first point. Blatant no limits fallacy.
Unorthodox
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you try to tear down everyone you debate wtih this post is funny especially since your the fool in this situation but lets see what nonsense you gotta say now tired of owning you.
Child please Her having less chakra had no effect on her speed at all when dodging Sasuke's amenotejikara and perfect susanoo blade yet it slowed her downed when she got blitz by naruto nice try but im not biting on your pump fake. Furthermore scans later she had enough chakra to change the dimension her chakra was not that low that it would effect her physically also are we suppose to believe naruto chakra was at 100% no nice try though.
No the rest is something you cant counter so you do what you do everytime your in a corner accuse someone of deny the manga (Your opinion) then skip right past the argument but when you post as flawless as me what else can you but concede. When did i concede in the argument especially giving Kaguya the edge? BDFRS is not going to do anthing? didnt she get her arm ripped of with a chakra cloak? she is plastered furthermore i was using those as example's on how she does not wreck them how your saying but wins med diff get it right.
Im not denying Naruto put his transformation in the palm of his hand to block Toneri's attack but that also does not take away the incredible feat Toneri did you keep calling it a hollow moon weak ass argument especially since Toneri was stationed in the center of the moon leaving the rest rock solid also that alone still > any feat RSM naruto displayed the moon is
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thats bigger than God tree Madara's chibaki tensei rain probably even bigger than all of his chibaku tensei's if they were combined into one and still a feat that shits on anything rsm naruto did. How can you block a moon level attack with a sub par moon level attack? Its like blocked a bijuu dama or perfect susanoo blade with something sub par mountain level your making 0 sense.Naruto's attack was indeed moon level most people or things in narutoverse can take in more then they can dish out example Perfect susanoo or Bijuu can take PS Slashes or Bijuu damas without dying or being defeated same goes for this also Naruto has no need to leave an attack with such catastrophic backlash when he's aiming for only one person furthermore is power was focused into a single point reducing a shockwave or sorts it even force toneri to revert back normal.
See this is where you phucked up because he blocked it with his left hand putting most of his power in that hand since it was stopping the attack then he attack him with his right giving just enough power in it to immobilize Toneri since we all know he is not a killer also no need to kill him anyways since hinata was taking the eyes to begin with.
[video=youtube;4S85YEWRwvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S85YEWRwvw[/video]
skip to 2:40
RSM Naruto could not have blocked that attack with his avatar or anything especially since a perfect susanoo blade from sasuke was able to chop those tails which is no where near moon level also chidori bijuu dama clash which lefts both avatars damaged is no where near moon level giving those facts Toneri and Naruto durability shits.
Toneri has more muscle power than Kaguya he out muscles her then blitz with amen seal GG.
Already debunked this terrible excuse furthermore Toneri with half of Hagz chakra speed >>>>>>>>>>>>> That RSM naruto giving him full makes his speed god like Kaguya gets blitz even after the Giant godu dama she was damn near blitz by Kakashi so this excuse needs to be killed.
By strength do you mean overall power and physical power? Buts its irrelevant because Hagoromo clearly knew about the dimensions reasons why he prepped that seal to bring Naruto and Sasuke back meaning he seen it before and he did not fight kaguya anytime the juubi fight meaning he indeed fought a more powerful Kaguya than Team 7 due to her having the combine chakra of the world.
KidGamer65;18878378Oh wait. It doesn't. Lol.[/QUOTE said:
KidGamer65
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Lol, this kid just keeps coming with the nonsense.
Wrong.
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Read before you reply kiddo. It makes you sound not as dumb.
Manga disagrees. Her chakra amount reflects her power. Less chakra=Speed and strength down. More chakra taken in=Speed and Strength increase dramatically.
Irrelevant. Her having enough chakra to switch dimensions doesn't mean that she had a lot of chakra left, at least, a lot of chakra in respect to her full reserves. I've already posted scans of her bones crumbling because of her lack of chakra. Please don't debate Manga Fact.
This guy stays whining. Lol. Everything there is irrelevant and I've already addressed it. That Madara shit? Not going to argue Madara vs. Kaguya with you when Kaguya is canonically above Madara's level. Please stop denying Manga Fact.
None of those examples hold any weight, as they are all flawed. BDFRS does nothing. She took Bijuu FRS with little injuries. Whether it was her odd absorption or something else doesn't matter cause at the end of the day, she did it. Then there's the fact she can overpower his BDRS like I already mentioned, so please don't mention it again.
Toneri was in the center. The part he lived in was hollowed out. Lol. So what he did is not on the level of actually cutting through the Moon that hasn't been tampered with.
I explained how he plowed through it, not blocked it. You telling me it doesn't make sense isn't a counter. You telling me it doesn't make sense is just you showing that you aren't bright enough to comprehend it. If so, just say so instead of acting like a fool. Lol. It's the same principle as attacks with more focus doing more damage to their defenses.
Lol, my sides.
Wrong. That goes for Bijuu and PS. Mostly battle Avatars, nothing more. I like how you tried to use shitty logic that makes zero sense for this section, not realizing, despite how obvious it should've been, that'd it backfire in a heartbeat once someone who can actually read the Manga saw it.
1. "Most people in NV can take i more then they can dish out". I guess KCM Naruto can tank FRS, COFRS, and Mini Bijuu Dama since people can take more than they can dish out.
2. I guess Sasuke tanks Chidori because people take in more than they can dish out.
Lol....no need for me to continue. It should be clear how dumb that poor attempt at transitive feats is.
@bold: Do you know how "Pressure" works? If not, pick up a physics book or use Google. The more focused the attack, the worse it'll do to the target. If that attack was Moon Level, and Toneri took a focused punch, then you'd be saying he has Moon Level durability as he was not killed by that attack. Lol. Toneri is not more durable than the Moon. Naruto's focused transformation is not a Moon buster when it only made a few craters on the Moon itself.
Lol. Don't rewrite the movie. His punch was the same both times. His transformation was focused into one hand, both times. Thus it was the same power. His transformation didn't suddenly change in between attacks nor does his fist look any different. His punch didn't kill Toneri because it was too weak. The fact he actually thrusted his fist and hit Toneri when before he was only running through the beam only hurts your argument even more.
Already countered. Whether or not their Avatars can take a direct hit doesn't matter to me.
Out muscles her? Lol. Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack says hi.
If only there was evidence of this gap being that large. If only there was evidence that RSM Naruto could blitz a regular Kaguya, let alone a powered up to the max Kaguya. And no, she didn't get blitzed by Kakashi. Don't hop on that wank train now. Lol. She fired her attack, Kakashi phased through it and unable to counter, she took the hit. Unless Kakashi is some how faster than Sasuke and Naruto now, you can cut this shit out.
Overall power. Hagoromo knew that they were in another dimension. Which was fairly obvious considering he's been watching the whole time. Not proof that Hagoromo knows everything about her nor is it proof that he fought Kaguya, or some Juubi that can use Kaguya's abilities.
Kakashi was unable to be hurt by her, and Naruto blitzed a weakened Kaguya. Saying Kakashi blitzed Kaguya is almost as smart as saying Sakura blitzed her. Lol.
None come close to a dimension level attack. Sorry bud.
Nope.
It's a fact. RSM>BSM. You giving me BSM's feats won't change that.
Lol, is this really coming from the guy who thinks that Naruto w/o his Avatar can tank Moon Level attacks?
Not gonna bother with the attempted use of the feats argument against a character with no feats. Didn't think you were this retarded tbh. Guess I was wrong.
-Kamui Raikiri? It cut her arm. Lol..
-It warped her portal, in a situation where she had her hands full with Naruto and Sasuke.
I suggest you take your head out of your ass and learn what "Shitting on" or "a match for" actually means.
No, Toneri cannot absorb Ninjutsu. If he could absorb Ninjutsu he wouldn't be blocking Naruto's Ninjutsu with his Gudo Dama.
Lol, the base's only Toneri wankboy.
"!" Can indicate surprise. Surprise that he didn't die to her attack. Though I'm pretty sure your 2 yr old nephew could've told you that. Sad that you don't know it yourself.
Except he is. He lost to BSM Naruto w/ Rikudo Chakra. Lol. The rest has been addressed above.
Lol, no, he didn't. Not in the movie which I already watched. When you actually have proof besides a wiki claim that has been taken down for months, that Madara is on par with Toneri, then we can talk. The rest is irrelevant due to the shit comparison from the top.
Unorthodox
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Oh its not nonsense lil gurl.
For one your scan is dead two thats completely different Kaguya just tamed herself and just made her expansive godudama her overall stats just went up not just recently when she was out of chakra also that is why her arm which was torn off finally regenerated basically a rebirth. Zetsu said her overall strength and speed now vastly overwhelms theirs this has nothing to do with her gaining full chakra it has to do with her being more powerful then before.
Also i still see you did not counter my argument i already counter that in my last post my argument that you failed to counter is that if she was out of chakra so much that it crippled her speed how was she able to dodge Sasuke's amen? How did she change the dimension how did she destroy sasuke susanoo with the same amount of ease she did when she had full chakra? Her overall power did not change at all she did the same feats she did when her chakra was at 100% there is no way her chakra loss had anything to do with her speed/reaction so much it aloud her to be blitz. Once again your pathetic and straw gasping attempt to counter my argument is pathetic and straw gasping.
Except her chakra clearly was not that low it effected her speed at all especially with the examples i gave cut that low chakra shit its shows how much credibility you got left in this thread. Even after her reemerged and so vastly superior she still could not dodge kakashi's attack.
It exactly means that Zetsu already explained that
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meaning she had fair amount chakra left when she dodged sasuke with no problem. Wrong her bones had crumble when she first used them against naruto since then she had already came back destroyed like a 1000 clones then change the dimension yet again and whats even worst for your case is that the first time Naruto used like 1000 clones they easily overwhelmed kaguya yet she she came back she was blitzing and just outright destroying them far more impressive then when she had more chakra this again explains why her speed was not effected by her low chakra at all also Kaguya is not the only one who chakra took a dent Naruto chakra definitely was not a 100% either so your argument hits a brick wall. To silents all of this all together Toneri is much faster than Shippuden bsm naruto Toneri was flying around the raduis of the moon like it was nothing you give him the same speed boost that bsm naruto was giving to get such godly speed he is much more faster also he gets the full chakra meaning his speed is doubled that naruto speed was giving lets say Kaguya was slowed down there is no way its to that degree so all this nonsense about chakra being low means nothing when the end result her speed would not even compare to toneri's who is buffed the way is meaning the she gets blitz sealed like i said.
Do you know the definition of whinning? i think not. No one ever said Madara can win but he can definitely push a med diff fight she defeated Madara and a cheap shot she can defeat any naruto character in the way she defeated Madara why because her chakra is greater than everyone's so by pumping her chakra into anyone in the narutoverse it causes them to explode then her she can take over the body and no one is denying any Manga facts got damn is that all you used when your cornered Lol.
Yes BDFRS is useless when she absorbed it but your were trying to say it'd be useless overall which it would not be also how do we know how she took BDFRS when her body vanished after that she turned into the giant rabbit her body could have been mangled for all we know. Since when could she overpower BDFRS because Naruto already matched her chakra arms with a mere clone in canon and BDFRS vaporizes ash bone. No you dont imply she can tank everything after we already seen her arm being torn off by a single hand.
Damn why do you try so hard and denying Toneri's feats? Toneri's home or the location he living in was about the size of a village but a sphere in the center meaning it took up less than 25% of the moons actual mass with the hole being in it. Toneri split the moons surface meaning he chopped through mountains of moon mass to even reach the core which does not stretch to the end of the moon its only in the center meaning the long sides of the moons body was still slice so weather the moon was hallow in the core which was small it does not take away from him spliting it Nice try though.
Your explanation was poor Kid you cannot block an attack with a weaker attack thats simple you cannot block a mountain level attack with a building level attack you cannot block a block level attack with a street level attack its that simple your denying common sense.
No one cares about your muffin tops.
Your argument would have been sound proof if i only i said everyone and everything can tank what they can dish out but i did not toneri does have battle avatars such as his giant puppet the was owning Kurama also lets break apart then shit on your argument concerning tanking what that can dish out.
Naruto did it by focusing all his power into a single palm which gave him more defense power to block the attack because if he could block it normally he would not have dodged when his whole body was in bsm form now the question is KCM focusing all his power into a single palm would he be able to block COFRS and mini bijuu dama ofcourse he can same for Sasuke focusing all his chakra/power in a single hand easily blocks a chidori with no problem nice try though but it all depends on the blocking method.
What you first need to realize is that out physics does not apply to naruto characters at all times. its as simple as this when an attack Meets a defense of the same caliber its shockwave or backlash is reduce to what ever it hits because that body or defense took most of the damage simply to what happen here
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the water only shook up in
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Yet in that Madara fight Sasuke was cutting chunks off Madara's meteor bigger then that ocean so does that mean his loss power no because like i said his attack lost all its momentum when it clashed with that tail that equal defense in Naruto and Toneri's case it was Toneri's body what happen to the water is basically the same thing that happened to the moon when Toneri was hit simple as that.No one is rewriting anything Naruto clearly used more to block the attack because of its power to cut the moon then to kill Toneri because he has hinabi's eyes and the mission was to rescue hinata save the world and get hinabi her eyes back so obviously he did hold back from killing Toneri with the punch but even if he did not this is even more of a reasons Toneri has moon level durability defense A which blocks attack A which is a moon level attack and as i proved you cannot block an attack without using equal or near the same power of the attack thats going against the defense so the punch was indeed moon level Toneri's durability still stands because as iv shown in that naruto vs Sasuke scan his body took most of the power that was in that punch leaving a hole in the moon as a backlash of the attack.
When did you counter this because i dont remember?
The same attack Naruto cloned slowed down with chakra fist? Toneri buffed on Hagoromo does not even feel an attack of this level let alone is defeated by it.
There is evidence and common sense Toneri is much much faster than BSM Naruto who is much slower than juubito if giving bsm naruto half of hagoromo chakra allows him to blitz kaguya giving toneri the full chakra allows him to blitz her with ease also add him having amenotejikara just kills any argument you can give that Kaguya can react to such speeds its as simple as that.
@Bold still holding on to that argument that has been set on fire raped shitted on then ate up then thrownup i see im not wasting anymore time shitting on that argument read above and read my last 2 replies to you that excuse is long over due its not like you to harp on such thing is this what you debate like when you matched?
No one ever said Kaguya was blitz even with all this new power she still could not dodge Kakashi thus her at max power is still liable for a blitz by naruto and definitely by Toneri who is much faster then Naruto also add the fact he gets amenotejikara she took the hit no she could not dodge it simple as that if she was just taking hits she would not have bothered to dodge most of the attacks she dodged.
Ill agree with this but there is still a power gap in that juubi and Kaguya.
Where in the post did i say he Kakashi blitz kaguya? i said he managed to land a blow on her learn how to read also your sakura comparison is atrocious especially when Kakashi hit her head up Sakura came out of the blue and hit her on the top of her head she did not even see sakura coming dont compare to two. Still saying naruto blitz a weakend Kaguya huh? keep fighting that fight.
Proof? Also how can Kaguya create that without turning into that giant rabbit which definitely gets sealed but this does not matter because this fight does not even begin to last that long.
Yup
It is a fact when were talking about shippuden but since were not its no longer a fact Since that Naruto has been displayed as the superior form of naruto.
Dont try to twist my words Naruto put everything into the palm of his hand avatar was included also naruto dodged with his avatar basically saying he could not tank the attack yet when he put the power in his palm dodging was not needed he muscled his way through it meaning that all the chakra in the palm of his hand was greater then his avatar chakra defense.
My point exactly do not try to support a character that has nothing backing him up and even if we give him basic byakugan or tenseigan feats he would still lose due to the simple fact that he has the answer to rinnegan genjutsu thats why sasuke 1 shots toneri.
It almost took her arm off and regarless of what it did it effected her my dude.
Naruto and Sasuke was coming up to her its not like they were pressuring her with attacks furthermore does it matter its shows the very usefulness of kamui warping portals basically limiting kaguya main line of offense and defense useless Kakashi may not have been the deciding factor but he played a major role in her defeat this proves that he is a very worthy opponent.
Kakashi did shit especially while doing his job
Toneri can indeed absorb Ninjutsu
Also we both can use that argument Why didnt kaguya absorb Naruto's chakra hand when it ripped her arm off? why didnt she absorb sasuke's perfect susanoo when it punched her or naruto clones rsm off when they attack her?
Its not wank when you can back up your claims.
Being surprised does not mean you cannot dodge not mention ash bone had completely left his body before he attack her giving her more then a enough room to dodge nb4 she didnt want to why would should dodge sasuke chidori or any other attacks besides the seal if she was immortal.
Except that BSM > RSM Naruto so your point is null and iv already re countered your post on that and by the way you did not counter shit you all you've been saying is she was weakend when she was attacked you never once even brought to the table toneri speed boost after obtaining Hagoromo's full chakra on top of that him using amen so you really have not countered shit my friend.
Toneri was compared to Madara. Also you trying to discount everything i said before because of that shows how much you've been outclass lets say he is not on Madara's tier which is he still much stronger than Juubito who is stronger than juubi so my point still stands and dont even say he's not stronger than juubi unless you want me to bring up the thread where you said BSM naruto from the last stomps Juubito.
But knowing you your probably going to say people taking my words out of context or i changed my mind lmao but Toneri feats shits on juubito's or Juubi.
KidGamer65
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Lol, just when I thought I wouldn't have to read anything stupid for the rest of the day.
1. No, it's not different. That scan proves that Kaguya's stats went up, meaning that Kaguya>Kaguya at the beginning of the fight>Weakened Kaguya.
2. He said that her speed and strength are on a different level than before. That is obviously referring to the time she was actually fighting, and that was from the start to that point. Obviously not the time she was weakened since there is no need to mention that she is on a different level if she really wasn't. Then there's the fact that she barely did any fighting in that form. Either way, still superior to the Kaguya Naruto blitzed.
3. Do I have to connect the dots for you? Bold is wrong. Zetsu says her speed and strength are on a different level from before. What even makes you look even stupider is the fact that he says she gained power. When was the only time she gained power? Oh wait, I know:
Conclusion? Kaguya exerted a lot of chakra. Got blitzed. Returned to the Genesis Dimension and sucked in more power, and then became stronger than she's ever been. End of story.
She dodged his blitz because he was too slow to tag her. Lol. It's really that simple.
"...just gained power."
"...Her speed and strength are nothing compared to before"
Clown over here says that "she didn't get more powerful", even though the Manga literally said she did. Who am I going to believe? Your half assed arguments or the Manga?
That either means that Kakashi is just that fast when using Kamui Raikiri (which he's not) or she chose not to dodge. Either way, doesn't prove your argument so I suggest you stop bringing him into this. What's next? You going to say that Sakura blitzed Kaguya?
-Foolish child says that Kaguya was not running low on chakra.
-BZ clearly reacts to the crumbling bones by saying "should I make more chakra?" "Lets go to the first dimension" "We'll recover faster there." Yet somehow, she had a lot of chakra left? Lol. Enough to use Ameno=/=A lot in respect to HER own chakra reserves. 10% of Kaguya's chakra is a lot in general terms, but when comparing that 10% to the used up 90%, it is obviously small. Lol.
Her bones crumbled because they hit a target. That's how they work. Why the fuck would they crumble here for no reason? Why the fuck would BZ react to that by saying "Should I make more chakra?" if it wasn't a chakra problem? Lmao. Kids and illiterates should not be allowed to post on here.
Naruto's clones never overwhelmed Kaguya. Nice try though. Naruto got one lucky hit in before he made the clones, and ever since then it's been Kaguya raping them left and right.
And once again, whether or not low chakra effected her speed, (which it probably did since using excess chakra makes her much stronger, low chakra should mean she gets slower) you have no point. Naruto never blitzed a powered up Kaguya, so I have no reason to believe that he can.
The Last BSM Naruto has Rikudo Chakra, and he matched this Naruto in flying speed, so yes, he is faster.
If only this assessment had any weight behind it. When you have proof that Toneri or Naruto can blitz Kaguya, then we can talk.
Not gonna bother arguing how badly Kaguya stomps Madara since it's a waste of my time and it's irrelevant to the main argument.
If she can nullify it or overpower it, then it's useless. Period. Lol. For the second point, please read the Manga.
Not mangled at all.
-She busted Susanoo with 5 hits. 1 BDFRS can't bust Susanoo when an explosion 2x the power of a Bijuu Dama larger than the BDFRS only did a little bit of damage. And she only used 5 hits. Lol. She used more against Naruto.
-Never said she can tank everything. I said she can absorb attacks, that's why Naruto didn't use his big moves against her, cause he knew they'd be useless.
Meaning his feat is not equivalent to cutting an actual Moon. Never said it wasn't a good feat.
He didn't block it. He ran right through it. My explanation makes perfect sense. When you can actually counter it then we can talk about this point.
Read it. Similar reason a too widespread, but strong attack, does nothing to small durable targets.
Not to mention Naruto's attack isn't moon level no matter how much BS you try to pull.
You said most, and you tried to use it as proof that Toneri can do so. Despite not actually having proof that Toneri can do so. Or Naruto. Not sure who the hell you are talking about but it's a dumb point either way you slice it.
Yes, he focused all his power into a single fist.
A fist isn't used to defend. A fist is used to attack, so no. He overpowered it, he didn't defend himself.
So KCM Naruto focusing all his power to his fist would make a stronger attack than COFRS? Lol. If only there were any proof to substantiate these claims. Please don't mention blocking when no one blocked anything. Naruto overpowered the attack, he didn't tank it.
"Physics doesn't apply" isn't an argument when:
1. Manga has already used this logic, multiple times. Raikage's Nukite is the perfect example. Less fingers, more focus. Kakashi cuts through multiple boulders with Raikiri Kunai, which is more focused, yet he doesn't nor can he do that with a regular Raikiri. Tenpenchii made a crater larger than the Bijuu Dama Naruto and B made, yet it did nothing to the SA. CST flattened Konoha, yet Katsuyu's pieces tanked it. Tsunade survived it. Fodder Anbu survived. That is because of Pressure. Lol.
2. You have no reason to against it.
That simple. Don't try to oversimplify it because you aren't bright enough, or you don't want to understand it.
The water only shook in different areas because the water is a completely different substance from the Meteors, and the Meteors hit. The Water wasn't, and it was from the impact of their sword/tail colliding. That was only the clash between Naruto and Sasuke. But yes, like you said, the impact wasn't that large because they canceled each other out. This doesn't apply with Naruto and Toneri because no one cancelled out Naruto's fist when it hit Toneri. Naruto canceled Sasuke's blade with an equal force/defense whatever the hell you want to call it. Toneri got hit, and got his ass laid out. So no, that energy was not canceled/matched thus you can't compare it to that situation. If I used this logic
Nice try though.
2. Toneri doesn't have Moon Level durability as he was defeated by a punch that didn't do anything significant to the surface of the moon when it landed, and when the one who was hit collided with the wall.
Naruto didn't block it, he overpowered it, in a sense. It's not a Moon Level attack, as it didn't do shit to the Moon that'd make it Moon Level.
This is basically you saying it's possible, so he can do it, without having any real proof to back this claim up. This all hinges on the fact that Naruto can blitz Kaguya, but he can't blitz a powered up Kaguya who's speed and strength have increased so highly that her speed and strength before are nothing, nor can he blitz a regular Kaguya. Only a Kaguya who's exhausted most of her chakra.
Sorry buddy. Not my fault you are too inept to form a proper argument.
This point has been addressed above multiple times above.
Yes, there is a gap, and the gap is large.
Same point you've repeated above...though the Sakura thing is new, and shows that you can't even look at the pics correctly.
"!".
She knew she was there yet did nothing.
Proof? Lmao. Dimension>Planet>Moon in size. Or at the very least, it's Dimension=Earth>Moon in size. Either way, obliterating a whole dimension>Cutting the Moon in half. Not debatable.
Kaguya creates it by sucking in chakra from IT victims, as the scans show. Nothing ever implied that she needs to become the rabbit first.
No, he hasn't. RSM>BSM. It's that simple.
2. Of course he can't tank it on his own.
3. He overpowered it, and I've addressed this point above.
The Genjutsu's best feats are holding 9 Bijuu at once. Not evidence he can one shot people like Hamura or Toneri. Don't you Genjutsu tards realize why Genjutsu has never been used in any top tier fights?
-Kaguya vs. Naruto and Sasuke
-Naruto vs. Sasuke
-Hashirama vs. Madara
It's because it's a non factor. I said that he's stronger than Sasuke. Nothing going for him? He's on par with the guy who gave Naruto and Sasuke their powers. Lol. That's reason enough. I guess Hagoromo himself gets one shot by Rinnegan Genjutsu since Rinnegan on it's own has no immunity to Genjutsu...
If we use your logic of course.
Ok? Your point? Lol.
They were pressuring her with the only thing that can put her away for good. That's much worse than any attack they can conjure. Did he play a major role in her defeat? Yes. Can he fight her alone? Not a chance in hell. That simple. Being a factor in a TEAM FIGHT doesn't automatically make you a threat in an individual battle.
He cut her arm. Lol. That's not shitting.
2. Kaguya was blitzed. Lol. No reaction=No absorption.
3. Destroying it is much faster than absorbing it.
4. Destroying Naruto's clones is more practical than sitting there trying to absorb the cloak while they are attacking her with Taijutsu. Let's be serious now.
-Says Toneri can tank Moon Level attacks.
-Says Naruto is a Moon Buster.
-Says Toneri one shots Kaguya.
Lol. Keep on wanking.
Being surprised means that you were surprised. Lol. It's only part of the reason she didn't/couldn't dodge. Besides. I've replied to the Kakashi point above.
The rest has been countered. My friend.
Where? Huh? I asked you for proof, not your word. How many times do I have to tell you that I don't give a damn about your word? Lol. I watched the movie, multiple people watched the movie, and they all said that such a thing was never said.
Never said he wasn't. Don't get your panties in a twist. And no, you have no point because Full Power Madara's Tier and Juubito's Tier are two completely different things with a ridiculous amount of power gap in between.
Good. Now prove that Toneri can one shot Kaguya. Lol
Lol. Use punctuation. I feel like I'm trying to translate a foreign language. Christ. Anyway..
1. No, it's not different. That scan proves that Kaguya's stats went up, meaning that Kaguya>Kaguya at the beginning of the fight>Weakened Kaguya.
2. He said that her speed and strength are on a different level than before. That is obviously referring to the time she was actually fighting, and that was from the start to that point. Obviously not the time she was weakened since there is no need to mention that she is on a different level if she really wasn't. Then there's the fact that she barely did any fighting in that form. Either way, still superior to the Kaguya Naruto blitzed.
3. Do I have to connect the dots for you? Bold is wrong. Zetsu says her speed and strength are on a different level from before. What even makes you look even stupider is the fact that he says she gained power. When was the only time she gained power? Oh wait, I know:
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Conclusion? Kaguya exerted a lot of chakra. Got blitzed. Returned to the Genesis Dimension and sucked in more power, and then became stronger than she's ever been. End of story.
She dodged his blitz because he was too slow to tag her. Lol. It's really that simple.
Because she doesn't need her full power to stomp Sasuke. Lol. Use your brain buddy. Does Base Naruto need to exert 100% of his chakra to defeat Konohamaru? No. Literally the same comparison.
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"...just gained power."
"...Her speed and strength are nothing compared to before"
Clown over here says that "she didn't get more powerful", even though the Manga literally said she did. Who am I going to believe? Your half assed arguments or the Manga?
Nothing you said has countered this point. In fact you stick to your idiotic claims instead of sticking with the Manga.
That either means that Kakashi is just that fast when using Kamui Raikiri (which he's not) or she chose not to dodge. Either way, doesn't prove your argument so I suggest you stop bringing him into this. What's next? You going to say that Sakura blitzed Kaguya?
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-Foolish child says that Kaguya was not running low on chakra.
-BZ clearly reacts to the crumbling bones by saying "should I make more chakra?" "Lets go to the first dimension" "We'll recover faster there." Yet somehow, she had a lot of chakra left? Lol. Enough to use Ameno=/=A lot in respect to HER own chakra reserves. 10% of Kaguya's chakra is a lot in general terms, but when comparing that 10% to the used up 90%, it is obviously small. Lol.
Her bones crumbled because they hit a target. That's how they work. Why the fuck would they crumble here for no reason? Why the fuck would BZ react to that by saying "Should I make more chakra?" if it wasn't a chakra problem? Lmao. Kids and illiterates should not be allowed to post on here.
Naruto's clones never overwhelmed Kaguya. Nice try though. Naruto got one lucky hit in before he made the clones, and ever since then it's been Kaguya raping them left and right.
And once again, whether or not low chakra effected her speed, (which it probably did since using excess chakra makes her much stronger, low chakra should mean she gets slower) you have no point. Naruto never blitzed a powered up Kaguya, so I have no reason to believe that he can.
The Last BSM Naruto has Rikudo Chakra, and he matched this Naruto in flying speed, so yes, he is faster.
If only this assessment had any weight behind it. When you have proof that Toneri or Naruto can blitz Kaguya, then we can talk.
Not gonna bother arguing how badly Kaguya stomps Madara since it's a waste of my time and it's irrelevant to the main argument.
If she can nullify it or overpower it, then it's useless. Period. Lol. For the second point, please read the Manga.
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Not mangled at all.
-She busted Susanoo with 5 hits. 1 BDFRS can't bust Susanoo when an explosion 2x the power of a Bijuu Dama larger than the BDFRS only did a little bit of damage. And she only used 5 hits. Lol. She used more against Naruto.
-Never said she can tank everything. I said she can absorb attacks, that's why Naruto didn't use his big moves against her, cause he knew they'd be useless.
Meaning his feat is not equivalent to cutting an actual Moon. Never said it wasn't a good feat.
He didn't block it. He ran right through it. My explanation makes perfect sense. When you can actually counter it then we can talk about this point.
Read it. Similar reason a too widespread, but strong attack, does nothing to small durable targets.
Not to mention Naruto's attack isn't moon level no matter how much BS you try to pull.
You said most, and you tried to use it as proof that Toneri can do so. Despite not actually having proof that Toneri can do so. Or Naruto. Not sure who the hell you are talking about but it's a dumb point either way you slice it.
Yes, he focused all his power into a single fist.
A fist isn't used to defend. A fist is used to attack, so no. He overpowered it, he didn't defend himself.
So KCM Naruto focusing all his power to his fist would make a stronger attack than COFRS? Lol. If only there were any proof to substantiate these claims. Please don't mention blocking when no one blocked anything. Naruto overpowered the attack, he didn't tank it.
"Physics doesn't apply" isn't an argument when:
1. Manga has already used this logic, multiple times. Raikage's Nukite is the perfect example. Less fingers, more focus. Kakashi cuts through multiple boulders with Raikiri Kunai, which is more focused, yet he doesn't nor can he do that with a regular Raikiri. Tenpenchii made a crater larger than the Bijuu Dama Naruto and B made, yet it did nothing to the SA. CST flattened Konoha, yet Katsuyu's pieces tanked it. Tsunade survived it. Fodder Anbu survived. That is because of Pressure. Lol.
2. You have no reason to against it.
That simple. Don't try to oversimplify it because you aren't bright enough, or you don't want to understand it.
The water only shook in different areas because the water is a completely different substance from the Meteors, and the Meteors hit. The Water wasn't, and it was from the impact of their sword/tail colliding. That was only the clash between Naruto and Sasuke. But yes, like you said, the impact wasn't that large because they canceled each other out. This doesn't apply with Naruto and Toneri because no one cancelled out Naruto's fist when it hit Toneri. Naruto canceled Sasuke's blade with an equal force/defense whatever the hell you want to call it. Toneri got hit, and got his ass laid out. So no, that energy was not canceled/matched thus you can't compare it to that situation. If I used this logic
Nice try though.
1. You have no proof that he held back. To say he held back, you'd first have to prove that his 100% punch is strong enough to kill Toneri in the first place. So you have no point there.
2. Toneri doesn't have Moon Level durability as he was defeated by a punch that didn't do anything significant to the surface of the moon when it landed, and when the one who was hit collided with the wall.
Naruto didn't block it, he overpowered it, in a sense. It's not a Moon Level attack, as it didn't do shit to the Moon that'd make it Moon Level.
Never said he'd be defeated by it, but he would be nonetheless as he has no chakra avatar, nor is he himself durable enough to take something that wrecked PS when he can't even take a punch from Naruto.
This is basically you saying it's possible, so he can do it, without having any real proof to back this claim up. This all hinges on the fact that Naruto can blitz Kaguya, but he can't blitz a powered up Kaguya who's speed and strength have increased so highly that her speed and strength before are nothing, nor can he blitz a regular Kaguya. Only a Kaguya who's exhausted most of her chakra.
Sorry buddy. Not my fault you are too inept to form a proper argument.
This point has been addressed above multiple times above.
Yes, there is a gap, and the gap is large.
Same point you've repeated above...though the Sakura thing is new, and shows that you can't even look at the pics correctly.
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"!".
She knew she was there yet did nothing.
Proof? Lmao. Dimension>Planet>Moon in size. Or at the very least, it's Dimension=Earth>Moon in size. Either way, obliterating a whole dimension>Cutting the Moon in half. Not debatable.
Kaguya creates it by sucking in chakra from IT victims, as the scans show. Nothing ever implied that she needs to become the rabbit first.
No, he hasn't. RSM>BSM. It's that simple.
1. He didn't block it.
2. Of course he can't tank it on his own.
3. He overpowered it, and I've addressed this point above.
The Genjutsu's best feats are holding 9 Bijuu at once. Not evidence he can one shot people like Hamura or Toneri. Don't you Genjutsu tards realize why Genjutsu has never been used in any top tier fights?
-Kaguya vs. Naruto and Sasuke
-Naruto vs. Sasuke
-Hashirama vs. Madara
It's because it's a non factor. I said that he's stronger than Sasuke. Nothing going for him? He's on par with the guy who gave Naruto and Sasuke their powers. Lol. That's reason enough. I guess Hagoromo himself gets one shot by Rinnegan Genjutsu since Rinnegan on it's own has no immunity to Genjutsu...
If we use your logic of course.
Ok? Your point? Lol.
They were pressuring her with the only thing that can put her away for good. That's much worse than any attack they can conjure. Did he play a major role in her defeat? Yes. Can he fight her alone? Not a chance in hell. That simple. Being a factor in a TEAM FIGHT doesn't automatically make you a threat in an individual battle.
Kakashi did shit especially while doing his job
He cut her arm. Lol. That's not shitting.
Based on what? Lol.
1. You can't use this since I've yet to see proof that Toneri can absorb Ninjutsu.
2. Kaguya was blitzed. Lol. No reaction=No absorption.
3. Destroying it is much faster than absorbing it.
4. Destroying Naruto's clones is more practical than sitting there trying to absorb the cloak while they are attacking her with Taijutsu. Let's be serious now.
-Says Toneri can tank Moon Level attacks.
-Says Naruto is a Moon Buster.
-Says Toneri one shots Kaguya.
Lol. Keep on wanking.
Being surprised means that you were surprised. Lol. It's only part of the reason she didn't/couldn't dodge. Besides. I've replied to the Kakashi point above.
Except he's not. He has no feat that surpasses RSM Naruto's. His punch is not a Moon Busting feat, and that's literally the only thing you have going for you here......but even then, Lol. Claim is dumb.
The rest has been countered. My friend.
Where? Huh? I asked you for proof, not your word. How many times do I have to tell you that I don't give a damn about your word? Lol. I watched the movie, multiple people watched the movie, and they all said that such a thing was never said.
Never said he wasn't. Don't get your panties in a twist. And no, you have no point because Full Power Madara's Tier and Juubito's Tier are two completely different things with a ridiculous amount of power gap in between.
Good. Now prove that Toneri can one shot Kaguya. Lol
Holy God
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That simply shows how ignorant you are. I of course have no proof of it being impossible to break out of, but you have no proof of people being able to break out of it. You make it seem as if I was at poor footing when in fact I actually have more "feats" of it working then you have of it not.
HiddenSound
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When those "feats" are on the level of sealing the strongest characters in the verse, then you can talk. Till then, your speculation just makes you look stupid. Well, your entire argument makes you look stupid, but you know.
TRE MERCER
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Kaguya is honestly overrated here. She loses especially if that fodder Toneri gets Hagoromo full chakra plus Yin and Yang seals.
Holy God
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It doesn't make me appear stupid at all. Though by how you're only focusing on that one sub-point now, I'm guessing you agree to the other four possible defeats for Kaguya. And just so you know, the original point was "Sealing". I simply gave the scrolls as an example later on, any seal can do.
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She loses .
Team wins
Team wins
Nagato The Sage
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Team one would win even if you take Toneri away
Lord of Akatsuki
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KidGamer I'm going to give you a hand with this numbskull.
Naruto is leagues ahead of Sasuke in speed anyway. Actually, she didn't dodge Amenotejikara at all, she merely dodged Sasuke's normal speed, she saw him appear next to her and dogged his normal hand attack, which means she dodged Sasuke's foot/hand speed.
Naruto>>>Sasuke in speed when Amenotejikara is not taken into account.
She effortlessly dodged the slow shit PS blade, she even destroyed Sasuke's PS with ease even when she was running low on Chakra, that is a feat in her favour.
Kaguya having enough Chakra to switch dimensions doesn't mean that she had a lot of Chakra left, though she notably has a ridiculous amount.
Another thing is this was a nerfed Kaguya, she wasn't at her full power at the time either, she didn't have the complete Juubi in her, and had to make do with what Madara had.
What the **** at bold. :hyper:
Kaguya canonically can overpower BDFRS, with ease at that. She was in a much weaker Chakra state and thus her durability was lower.
Okay brah, let me give you a physics lesson.
The gravitational potential of a body of mass M and radius R is given by V = - GM / R which places the zero at infinity. Representing the accreted mass at any given time by M, and the radius corresponding to that mass, by R, it can be assumed that the density ρ is constant through out the accretion and equal to today’s average density of the Moon, that is ρ. If I felt like it I could prabably explain it better, but I don't feel up to it just now.
Then the energy we can theoretically extract from a small amount of mass falling from infinity, is DE = G M/R dm, or
Etotal = G ∫ M/R dm, from M=0 to M.
Given that ρ 4/3 π R = M, we get R = [3/4π M / ρ]^(1/3) and, placing the constants outside the integration, we get E = G [4π ρ / 3]^(1/3) ∫ M^(2/3) DM = G [4π ρ / 3]^(1/3) 3/5 M^(5/3)
This is the minimal energy required to blow up the Moon, with the approximation for density already mentioned.
So, in numbers, we have:
M = 7.3477 × 10^(22) kg, R = 1 737.10 km, ρ = 3 346.4 kg/m³, G = 6.674 × 10^(−11) Nm² /kg², 4π = 12.5664, 3/5 G [4π ρ / 3]^(1/3) = 9.655 x 10^(-10), M^(5/3) = 1.289 x 10^(38), Energy = 1.2445 x 10^(29) Joules
The final result is in Joules as we only used SI units. Given that a Tsar Bomba releases about 210,000 TJ or 210 x 10^(15) Joules, and is about 50 Megatons, roughly, the number of bombs required would be 9,408 billion bombs.
Now that I got this finished, I'm gonna get to the next part, it takes much, much less force and power to split the Moon than it does to utterly bust it. It's the same with a continent.
Slicing/splitting the Moon in half still leaves about 90% of its full mass left.
Busting the Moon is quite literately thousands upon million times greater than splitting one.
But just to show you, to split the Moon you'd need about 1.7 x 10^21 Ergs/sec of force. Hopefully you have enough comprehension to realise the difference.
Not only that, but the fact that the Moon is hollow lowers the feat even more.
h: Please tell me you realise that when Naruto blocked Toneri's attack he didn't block the full force of it.
Probably weaker considering it did practically no damage to the Moon itself.
I think it might be good to mention that Kaguya is a planet buster. Which means Kaguya>>>>>>Toneri's Moon 'splitter.'
Naruto's punch was the same both times. His transformation was focused into one hand, both times; thus, it was indeed the same power. His transformation didn't change noticeably nor did his fist change. His punch didn't kill Toneri because it was too weak; the fact he actually spurned his fist forward and hit Toneri when before he was only running through the beam doesn't help your argument in the least.
Not only that, but you've misread something, because Naruto actually has killed, he willingly killed Black Zetsu (by flinging him into the CT that BZ couldn't hope to live through).
Lol what the **** at bold?
RSM Naruto has the power to do so, he's much stronger than his BSM Self, only difference is that Last Naruto is more experienced.
Nope, Kaguya ****s him up with ease.
BSM Naruto and Toneri are both slower than RSM Naruto, how the hell does he having Chakra from Hagoromo leap his speed up beyond RSM?
You mean they were blitzing a Chakra weakened Kaguya, which means her speed and reactions weren't at full capacity.
:erm: Planetary Gudodama outclasses a Moon slicer effortlessly, anything else? :heh:
Fact dude, RSM>>>>>>BSM.
Please start using real grammar and punctuation.
First off, neither Hagoromo or Hamura knew they were fighting Kaguya, it is doubtful that she was even at full power at the time, considering she had gone bat shit crazy.
You should know by now that Hagoromo and Hamura are stronger than Naruto and Sasuke, who are merely transmigrant of Indra and Ashura with similar Chakra to the Otsutsuki brothers.
Kamui Raikiri warped her portal, in a situation where she had her hands full with Naruto and Sasuke. Then it cut her arm. Not a noteworthy feat of actual blitzing or damaging her.
The **** is bold coming from?
It'd take a one year old who knows nothing of Manga to not realise that exclamation marks indicates surprise. O_O
No lol, he is weaker.
Bold, never stated.
RSM Naruto>>>Toneri.
Italics. What the **** did I just read?
I think you mean, JJ Hagoromo>>>>>Double Seal Hagoromo>>>>normal Yang Seal Hagoromo>>>>Elderly Hagoromo>>>>>>Madara>>RSM Naruto>>>>>Sasuke and DMS Kakashi>>>>>>>Toneri.
Edit: I did that wrong. I meant I think you mean, JJ Hagoromo>>>>>Double Seal Hagoromo>>Madara (may or may not be here)>>normal Yang Seal Hagoromo>>Madara (probably stronger than old Hagoromo, but not by much)>>Elderly Hagoromo>>>>>>>>RSM Naruto>>>>>Sasuke and DMS Kakashi>>>>>>>Toneri.
To bold.
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Naruto is leagues ahead of Sasuke in speed anyway. Actually, she didn't dodge Amenotejikara at all, she merely dodged Sasuke's normal speed, she saw him appear next to her and dogged his normal hand attack, which means she dodged Sasuke's foot/hand speed.
Naruto>>>Sasuke in speed when Amenotejikara is not taken into account.
She effortlessly dodged the slow shit PS blade, she even destroyed Sasuke's PS with ease even when she was running low on Chakra, that is a feat in her favour.
Kaguya having enough Chakra to switch dimensions doesn't mean that she had a lot of Chakra left, though she notably has a ridiculous amount.
Another thing is this was a nerfed Kaguya, she wasn't at her full power at the time either, she didn't have the complete Juubi in her, and had to make do with what Madara had.
What the **** at bold. :hyper:
Kaguya canonically can overpower BDFRS, with ease at that. She was in a much weaker Chakra state and thus her durability was lower.
Okay brah, let me give you a physics lesson.
The gravitational potential of a body of mass M and radius R is given by V = - GM / R which places the zero at infinity. Representing the accreted mass at any given time by M, and the radius corresponding to that mass, by R, it can be assumed that the density ρ is constant through out the accretion and equal to today’s average density of the Moon, that is ρ. If I felt like it I could prabably explain it better, but I don't feel up to it just now.
Then the energy we can theoretically extract from a small amount of mass falling from infinity, is DE = G M/R dm, or
Etotal = G ∫ M/R dm, from M=0 to M.
Given that ρ 4/3 π R = M, we get R = [3/4π M / ρ]^(1/3) and, placing the constants outside the integration, we get E = G [4π ρ / 3]^(1/3) ∫ M^(2/3) DM = G [4π ρ / 3]^(1/3) 3/5 M^(5/3)
This is the minimal energy required to blow up the Moon, with the approximation for density already mentioned.
So, in numbers, we have:
M = 7.3477 × 10^(22) kg, R = 1 737.10 km, ρ = 3 346.4 kg/m³, G = 6.674 × 10^(−11) Nm² /kg², 4π = 12.5664, 3/5 G [4π ρ / 3]^(1/3) = 9.655 x 10^(-10), M^(5/3) = 1.289 x 10^(38), Energy = 1.2445 x 10^(29) Joules
The final result is in Joules as we only used SI units. Given that a Tsar Bomba releases about 210,000 TJ or 210 x 10^(15) Joules, and is about 50 Megatons, roughly, the number of bombs required would be 9,408 billion bombs.
Now that I got this finished, I'm gonna get to the next part, it takes much, much less force and power to split the Moon than it does to utterly bust it. It's the same with a continent.
Slicing/splitting the Moon in half still leaves about 90% of its full mass left.
Busting the Moon is quite literately thousands upon million times greater than splitting one.
But just to show you, to split the Moon you'd need about 1.7 x 10^21 Ergs/sec of force. Hopefully you have enough comprehension to realise the difference.
Not only that, but the fact that the Moon is hollow lowers the feat even more.
h: Please tell me you realise that when Naruto blocked Toneri's attack he didn't block the full force of it. No, Moon level means that the attack is able to bust the Moon, Naruto's attack was weaker or at best on par with Toneri's Moon splitter.
Probably weaker considering it did practically no damage to the Moon itself.
I think it might be good to mention that Kaguya is a planet buster. Which means Kaguya>>>>>>Toneri's Moon 'splitter.'
Naruto's punch was the same both times. His transformation was focused into one hand, both times; thus, it was indeed the same power. His transformation didn't change noticeably nor did his fist change. His punch didn't kill Toneri because it was too weak; the fact he actually spurned his fist forward and hit Toneri when before he was only running through the beam doesn't help your argument in the least.
Not only that, but you've misread something, because Naruto actually has killed, he willingly killed Black Zetsu (by flinging him into the CT that BZ couldn't hope to live through).
Lol what the **** at bold?
RSM Naruto has the power to do so, he's much stronger than his BSM Self, only difference is that Last Naruto is more experienced.
Nope, Kaguya ****s him up with ease.
BSM Naruto and Toneri are both slower than RSM Naruto, how the hell does he having Chakra from Hagoromo leap his speed up beyond RSM?
You mean they were blitzing a Chakra weakened Kaguya, which means her speed and reactions weren't at full capacity.
Your acting like Kakashi is superior to RSM Naruto and Sasuke in speed, he's not. Merely Sasuke's foot speed.
:erm: Planetary Gudodama outclasses a Moon slicer effortlessly, anything else? :heh:
Yeah nope.
Fact dude, RSM>>>>>>BSM.
Please start using real grammar and punctuation.
First off, neither Hagoromo or Hamura knew they were fighting Kaguya, it is doubtful that she was even at full power at the time, considering she had gone bat shit crazy.
You should know by now that Hagoromo and Hamura are stronger than Naruto and Sasuke, who are merely transmigrant of Indra and Ashura with similar Chakra to the Otsutsuki brothers.
Kamui Raikiri warped her portal, in a situation where she had her hands full with Naruto and Sasuke. Then it cut her arm. Not a noteworthy feat of actual blitzing or damaging her.
The **** is bold coming from?
It'd take a one year old who knows nothing of Manga to not realise that exclamation marks indicates surprise. O_O
No lol, he is weaker.
Bold, never stated.
RSM Naruto>>>Toneri.
Italics. What the **** did I just read?
I think you mean, JJ Hagoromo>>>>>Double Seal Hagoromo>>>>normal Yang Seal Hagoromo>>>>Elderly Hagoromo>>>>>>Madara>>RSM Naruto>>>>>Sasuke and DMS Kakashi>>>>>>>Toneri.
Edit: I did that wrong. I meant I think you mean, JJ Hagoromo>>>>>Double Seal Hagoromo>>Madara (may or may not be here)>>normal Yang Seal Hagoromo>>Madara (probably stronger than old Hagoromo, but not by much)>>Elderly Hagoromo>>>>>>>>RSM Naruto>>>>>Sasuke and DMS Kakashi>>>>>>>Toneri.
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DemonicAvenger
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If its a completely unrestricted Kaguya, then theoretically she could use Susano'O and anything else the other team has as well. Under that assumption, Kaguya destroys. Madara will be backpacking the team and he can't do much given the above.
Seventh Sama
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Well, That susanoo part might be possible since she's possessing madara's body.
DemonicAvenger
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Her Sharrinnegan should allow her to use it anyway, then there's the fact that all Jutsu more or less come from her. She even knew of Amaterasu.
Lord of Akatsuki
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Kaguya has all of the powers, so if she's unrestricted than she can use Susano.