[VS] Itachi vs Sasori

[KidGamer65]

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Sand bullets are shot all over the place, there was no evading in this scenario, the best thing she could do was use her shield. Itachi has nothing like Chiyo's shield.

The attack didnt even reach to where Chiyo was anyway so it wouldnt matter if your in an open field or not, Itachi would be in Sakura's position in this battle not Chiyo's, there was nowhere Sakura could go in that moment.

No evading for Chiyo. Itachi is not Chiyo. Itachi is leagues above Chiyo in movement speed, reaction speed, and reflexes. Itachi has Sharingan precognition added on top of that, Chiyo does not. He doesn't need to have a shield since he can evade it.

And yes, an open field would matter. More space to dodge means that if you are fast enough, you won't get stopped by things like area size. Also, nowhere to go? Those were fired at them

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Not some 360 degree attack...what's also funny is that you said she had nowhere to go, but the manga clearly shows Chiyo blocking for herself, and the puppet rescuing Sakura, by

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Itachi's speed>>>Chiyo and her puppets. He evades that attack with ease.

 

[RedRobin]

No evading for Chiyo. Itachi is not Chiyo. Itachi is leagues above Chiyo in movement speed, reaction speed, and reflexes. Itachi has Sharingan precognition added on top of that, Chiyo does not. He doesn't need to have a shield since he can evade it.

And yes, an open field would matter. More space to dodge means that if you are fast enough, you won't get stopped by things like area size. Also, nowhere to go? Those were fired at them

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Not some 360 degree attack...what's also funny is that you said she had nowhere to go, but the manga clearly shows Chiyo blocking for herself, and the puppet rescuing Sakura, by

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Itachi's speed>>>Chiyo and her puppets. He evades that attack with ease.

Yeah I frogot Sakura was moved and then he shoots another attack.

I was talking about world model, there was nowhere for Sakura to go, as it appeared everywhere in a short amount of time. Again it didnt even reach to where Chiyo was so more area to work with would not have been helpful.

 

[Masked man]

I think Sasori would win with medium difficulty.

 

[Apêx1]

Chiyo's shield obviously isn't put up instantaneously, nor is it being part of her body some kind of evidence that it does. The shield spawns from her arm, but she still has to make the motion to block it, just like any regular person carrying a shield. Then you factor in Itachi being tiers above her in speed, and he easily evades it instead of being able to block. Chiyo is already much slower than him and he has Sharingan pre cog to boot.

What? It's part of her body=goes up the second she thinks about it=mindly reacting. Yes, she has to move her hand like 20 centimetres. Is that evidence that Itachi will indubitably dodge it? Nope. Tobirama made several hand movements

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against Juubito, does that mean someone like BM Naruto, whose far faster than Tobirama can make circles around Juubito's speed? Nope. Moving hand=/=Full body movements.

Also. Chiyo disagrees with you. She clearly states that Sakura is seeing through his attack pattern and clearly states that she can do "it" on her own, without her assistance.

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Sakura was evading his attacks in the end, on her own. Itachi does the same, but much much easier.

What Chiyo says does not concern me, because what she did was assume that Sakura can do it on her own.

No, Sakura was not evading his attacks near the end. You can clearly see that Chiyo was pulling the strings when Sakura dodged the fast IS [

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][

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]. So unless you can show me Sakura dodging any aimed IS, there's no debate here.

Sasori airborne? Not only does increasing the distance between him and Itachi make it that much easier for the latter to dodge his attacks, this is in a forest, the trees can be used as elevation for him to Shunshin off of, allowing him to get to Sasori even when he's in the air.

Innovative, but that's no longer viable when Sasori's IS ends up destroying the surrounding trees (easily achieved with ISW). And you are incorrect when you say IS speed will be affected. IS is

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. And do realise, the smaller IS like drizzle and smaller shaped weapons.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yeah I frogot Sakura was moved and then he shoots another attack.

I was talking about world model, there was nowhere for Sakura to go, as it appeared everywhere in a short amount of time. Again it didnt even reach to where Chiyo was so more area to work with would not have been helpful.

Sakura's only move was to retreat backwards, as behind the whole thing was the only place not affected, as you stated. If they are outside, she can go to the sides and to the back to evade the jutsu, so no, more room always helps. Then there's the fact that Itachi is much faster than her, and the fact that they are in a forest. The trees make it harder for World Model to spread out and hit Itachi, and the open area lets him evade easier.

 

[KidGamer65]

What? It's part of her body=goes up the second she thinks about it=mindly reacting. Yes, she has to move her hand like 20 centimetres. Is that evidence that Itachi will indubitably dodge it? Nope. Tobirama made several hand movements

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against Juubito, does that mean someone like BM Naruto, whose far faster than Tobirama can make circles around Juubito's speed? Nope. Moving hand=/=Full body movements.

Except you aren't taking into account the fact that Tobirama's feat right there surpasses every striking speed and reaction feat that BM Naruto has, as he wasn't keeping up with Juubito's speed until he got BSM. Chiyo's striking speed, and movement speed, nor are her reactions anywhere near Itachi's, so this example doesn't hold.

What Chiyo says does not concern me, because what she did was assume that Sakura can do it on her own.

That wasn't an assumption, that was a statement of fact. If you are going to blatantly ignore what Chiyo states then I'll just take your concession since that's literally ignoring manga fact.

"She's already beginning to see through Sasori's Attack Pattern in this short amount of time"

"So that even without my assistance she can do it like this"

Definitely sounds like an assumption..Lol.

When you can point out any characteristic of these statements that would lead anyone properly reading them to believe she assumed these things, then we can talk...cause from what I see, you are saying she assumed them based on nothing.

No, Sakura was not evading his attacks near the end. You can clearly see that Chiyo was pulling the strings when Sakura dodged the fast IS [

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][

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]. So unless you can show me Sakura dodging any aimed IS, there's no debate here.

Before Chiyo's statement, so it's irrelevant to my argument.

Don't need to show you Sakura dodging anything. I have a statement from an observer that she was able to read through his attack pattern and evade his attacks, on her own. "Assumption" is the only counter argument I'm seeing from you, but with no evidence backing it up.

Innovative, but that's no longer viable when Sasori's IS ends up destroying the surrounding trees (easily achieved with ISW). And you are incorrect when you say IS speed will be affected. IS is

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.

Iron Sand World Method is barely destructive. Long sharp iron spears aren't going to knock trees down, they'll pierce them, but not knock them down, meaning this strategy still works.

It still has to travel the distance from where Sasori is, to wherever he wants to fire it at, which makes it easier for him to evade. Being 10 meters away and firing it off is faster than being 20 meters away, putting the Iron Sand 10 meters away, and then firing it off.

 

[Lariatoo]

Itachi will definitly win in the end, albeit with extremily high difficulties...
Sasori is just a horrible matchup for him...

 

[Beans2]

Well KG pretty much summed it up..seems like another response from me isn't necessary.

 

[super yang]

sasori wins mid diff

 

[Apêx1]

Except you aren't taking into account the fact that Tobirama's feat right there surpasses every striking speed and reaction feat that BM Naruto has, as he wasn't keeping up with Juubito's speed until he got BSM. Chiyo's striking speed, and movement speed, nor are her reactions anywhere near Itachi's, so this example doesn't hold.

What? How is that relevant? The whole point is Chiyo moving her hand does not warrant Itachi moving several meters, at all. Tobirama's hand speed is obviously fast. How does that take away from the argument? If Chiyo's hand speed is faster than Itachi's, then that means Itachi cannot shunshin out of the way? Nope.

That wasn't an assumption, that was a statement of fact. If you are going to blatantly ignore what Chiyo states then I'll just take your concession since that's literally ignoring manga fact.

"She's already beginning to see through Sasori's Attack Pattern in this short amount of time"

"So that even without my assistance she can do it like this"

Definitely sounds like an assumption..Lol.

When you can point out any characteristic of these statements that would lead anyone properly reading them to believe she assumed these things, then we can talk...cause from what I see, you are saying she assumed them based on nothing.


Before Chiyo's statement, so it's irrelevant to my argument.

And how exactly can Chiyo speak of fact when an occurence such as that didn't happen in the first place, Lol. You wanting to take it as a concession is amusing, reminds of a Youngdebater type of arguing.

I would 100% agree had their been a time lapse where stuff happened that we did not see. But that's clearly not the case since the very next page of their fight, Sasori comments on the strength of Sakura's punch after she punched the IS block away. So unless you can prove Sakura actually dodged something that was as fast as the normal IS, then there's no argument here. Chiyo's statement on Sasori holds as much as Zetsu's invincible statement on Itachi. So before it happened doesn't matter, because as I said, no time lapse occurred.

Don't need to show you Sakura dodging anything. I have a statement from an observer that she was able to read through his attack pattern and evade his attacks, on her own. "Assumption" is the only counter argument I'm seeing from you, but with no evidence backing it up.

Addressed.

Iron Sand World Method is barely destructive. Long sharp iron spears aren't going to knock trees down, they'll pierce them, but not knock them down, meaning this strategy still works.

It still has to travel the distance from where Sasori is, to wherever he wants to fire it at, which makes it easier for him to evade. Being 10 meters away and firing it off is faster than being 20 meters away, putting the Iron Sand 10 meters away, and then firing it off.

What the hell? It's

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boulders. So no, the tree will be going down.

True, but I don't necessarily see how that matters since Sasori can make a

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having it everywhere he needs it; like Gaara. So that'll be certain death for Itachi, who will end up dying from an underground attack (or just a normal IS shape attack).

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Just to be clear, Itachi is dodging the Iron Sand drizzle. It broke the sound barrier, but the faster characters in the manga can do that with relative ease. Chiyo and Sakura are not that fast.

Sasori wins this because Itachi lacks efficient ways to finish Sasori off and dodging Satetsu Kaihō is pure luck seeing as how new iron sand spikes spawn out of other Iron sand spikes at complete random. Itachi does not have the durability to tank Satetsu, nor does he posses a way to go underground, nor does he have a durable defensive Jutsu (Susanoo is restricted) nor does he possess flight.

 

[KidGamer65]

What? How is that relevant? The whole point is Chiyo moving her hand does not warrant Itachi moving several meters, at all. Tobirama's hand speed is obviously fast. How does that take away from the argument? If Chiyo's hand speed is faster than Itachi's, then that means Itachi cannot shunshin out of the way? Nope.

If Tobirama's hand speed moves faster than BM Naruto can Shunshin and his reflexes are faster, then your argument stands as that is why someone who can Shunshin much faster than he can, can't evade Juubito while he can tag him. If Chiyo's hand speed, reflexes or reactions aren't anywhere near Itachi's own, then there is no reason why he won't be able to evade. BM Naruto is not faster than Tobirama in every way, Itachi is faster than Chiyo in every way, and the gap far larger than that of Tobirama and BM Naruto.

Then there's the fact Sakura is able to do it. (Despite your denial of fact)

And how exactly can Chiyo speak of fact when an occurence such as that didn't happen in the first place, Lol. You wanting to take it as a concession is amusing, reminds of a Youngdebater type of arguing.

Fan says it didn't happen....

Manga says it did.

Chiyo states something.

Fan says it's an assumption.

I guess Kishimoto threw that statement in there for the lulz. Lol. I guess your opinion is more valid than Chiyo's opinion because what again...? Cause you don't think it happened? Not to mention your assumption argument literally doesn't even begin to make sense. Kishimoto wrote that in there for a reason, meaning it happened. Any kind of explanation you bring to refute that is pointless cause the manga has spoken.

And Gee guys, who am I going to believe. The fan or the manga? I think I'll go with the manga.

Outright denial of manga fact in favor of your interpretation reminds of a Madara Rules type of arguing.

I would 100% agree had their been a time lapse where stuff happened that we did not see. But that's clearly not the case since the very next page of their fight, Sasori comments on the strength of Sakura's punch after she punched the IS block away. So unless you can prove Sakura actually dodged something that was as fast as the normal IS, then there's no argument here. Chiyo's statement on Sasori holds as much as Zetsu's invincible statement on Itachi. So before it happened doesn't matter, because as I said, no time lapse occurred.

So, now we are ignoring manga fact, and we are making nonsensical comparisons.. Hyperbole=/=Factual statement. Your basis for comparison of the two literally makes no sense, if you even have one. Itachi was being hyped up as invincible. Chiyo stated Sakura did something, whether or not you want to believe it happened isn't my problem.

What the hell? It's

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boulders. So no, the tree will be going down.

It's piercing small boulders, not to mention trees are much larger than boulders. Spikes that pierce don't knock down trees, they pierce through them. Is a sword going to knock down a tree if you stab it? Obviously not.

True, but I don't necessarily see how that matters since Sasori can make a

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having it everywhere he needs it; like Gaara. So that'll be certain death for Itachi, who will end up dying from an underground attack (or just a normal IS shape attack).

His massive lake of Iron Sand is pretty useless if Itachi isn't standing on it, and since they are trees in the area, and the area is open, so he has no reason to be standing on his field, unless he can cover the whole forest, which he can't do since he couldn't even cover the whole cave.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Sasori wins extreme high difficulty.

It could go either way honestly but im leaning toward Sasori simply because Itachi will have to spam Amaterasu to win this battle which isn't good with his poor stamina. ​

 

[Conspirator.]

Itachi wins it.

 

[FemmeFatale]

Can yata deflect poisons.
Itachi can seal sasori, just like he supposedly beats tsunade

 

[Apêx1]

If Tobirama's hand speed moves faster than BM Naruto can Shunshin and his reflexes are faster, then your argument stands as that is why someone who can Shunshin much faster than he can, can't evade Juubito while he can tag him. If Chiyo's hand speed, reflexes or reactions aren't anywhere near Itachi's own, then there is no reason why he won't be able to evade. BM Naruto is not faster than Tobirama in every way, Itachi is faster than Chiyo in every way, and the gap far larger than that of Tobirama and BM Naruto.

Then there's the fact Sakura is able to do it. (Despite your denial of fact)




Fan says it didn't happen....

Manga says it did.

Chiyo states something.

Fan says it's an assumption.

I guess Kishimoto threw that statement in there for the lulz. Lol. I guess your opinion is more valid than Chiyo's opinion because what again...? Cause you don't think it happened? Not to mention your assumption argument literally doesn't even begin to make sense. Kishimoto wrote that in there for a reason, meaning it happened. Any kind of explanation you bring to refute that is pointless cause the manga has spoken.

And Gee guys, who am I going to believe. The fan or the manga? I think I'll go with the manga.

Outright denial of manga fact in favor of your interpretation reminds of a Madara Rules type of arguing.



So, now we are ignoring manga fact, and we are making nonsensical comparisons.. Hyperbole=/=Factual statement. Your basis for comparison of the two literally makes no sense, if you even have one. Itachi was being hyped up as invincible. Chiyo stated Sakura did something, whether or not you want to believe it happened isn't my problem.







It's piercing small boulders, not to mention trees are much larger than boulders. Spikes that pierce don't knock down trees, they pierce through them. Is a sword going to knock down a tree if you stab it? Obviously not.



His massive lake of Iron Sand is pretty useless if Itachi isn't standing on it, and since they are trees in the area, and the area is open, so he has no reason to be standing on his field, unless he can cover the whole forest, which he can't do since he couldn't even cover the whole cave.

Look, before we go on, I'll remind you of every usage of IS..

Initial IS released from the puppet;

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Sand Drizzle only usage, Sakura saved;

Spoiler

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IS small variant shapes, Sakura clearly put up her guard and didn't move an inch (she'd die if no puppet protected her);

Spoiler

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IS usage, Sakura is in mid-air because of

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;

Spoiler

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Sakura looks at the power of IS in awe;

Spoiler

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IS block drops from above her head with decent DC, not comparable to the quick IS used priorly;

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Sakura punches that IS block;

Spoiler

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Sasori then comments saying Sakura's strength is immense. In the SAME PAGE, Chiyo says Sakura can do it alone.

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So unless you can show me exactly how Chiyo came to the conclusion that Sakura read through his pattern, when just a second ago (pre-Chiyo attaching strings) she couldn't even move an inch. And that'll be hard, since no scan shows Sakura evading IS, meaning Chiyo is merely assuming she can. Assumption doesn't hold, because she can't know for a fact that Sakura can do it alone when such did not happen.

 

[KidGamer65]

So unless you can show me exactly how Chiyo came to the conclusion that Sakura read through his pattern, when just a second ago (pre-Chiyo attaching strings) she couldn't even move an inch. And that'll be hard, since no scan shows Sakura evading IS, meaning Chiyo is merely assuming she can. Assumption doesn't hold, because she can't know for a fact that Sakura can do it alone when such did not happen.

It's a statement of fact, not an assumption. Why would I have to tell you how she came to that conclusion when that isn't relevant to my argument? What's relevant is that it did happen. Trying to pass off a fact as an assumption isn't a counter argument. She stated it, and there is a reason she stated it, because she can do it. Kishimoto didn't have Chiyo say that for the lulz. He didn't throw that in there just because, for no reason.

You are telling me to prove something that's already been stated by a character. No need for me to prove it, the manga already said it.

 

[Apêx1]

It's a statement of fact, not an assumption. Why would I have to tell you how she came to that conclusion when that isn't relevant to my argument? What's relevant is that it did happen. Trying to pass off a fact as an assumption isn't a counter argument. She stated it, and there is a reason she stated it, because she can do it. Kishimoto didn't have Chiyo say that for the lulz. He didn't throw that in there just because, for no reason.

You are telling me to prove something that's already been stated by a character. No need for me to prove it, the manga already said it.

Lol, that's not how it works. It's an assumption because it clearly did not happen, as we saw every usage of IS and every usage was avoided through Chiyo's help. And even if I were to give Sakura the benefit of the doubt and say she dodged a falling block. That still does not warrant her from dodging any of the other IS techniques which were far faster. Kishimoto threw in Itachi's invincibility for the lols, Hiruzen's hype for the lols, etc. Either way, I don't care what Kishi's intentions were with that statement, we saw every IS, and Chiyo's statement is thus an assumption.

Then I guess all hype counts, because they fit the conditions of a character stating it. No need to prove Yata can deflect all attacks, because a character stated it.

 

[Zexion~]

Do people not realize IS's large forms are slower then the ones Sakura couldn't avoid at all by a lot

Anyone with common logic can realize that lml

Itachi avoids the larger ones easily

 

[Apêx1]

Do people not realize IS's large forms are slower then the ones Sakura couldn't avoid at all by a lot

Anyone with common logic can realize that lml

Itachi avoids the larger ones easily

We know that, but somehow it is being suggested that all variant can be dodged because Sakura caught up with the pattern or some shit. Obviously Sand Drizzle is not being evaded by Sakura. And the larger ones are multi-purpose, since they form into ISW after being fired. But I'm rather tired of hearing people claim that Sand Drizzle is shunshin'd around because Chiyo says Sakura can dodge IS, which has nothing to support it whatsoever.