The True Villains

[Lariatoo]

They aren't anti-heroes.

An antihero or antiheroine is a leading character in a story who, unlike a traditional hero, acts in an unheroic manner and lacks conventional heroic qualities such as idealism, courage and morality.

Being an antihero is just being a hero who isn't afraid to get their hands dirty, but they still have a moral compass in that they try their best not to do anything that is unnecessary.

Obito used Kurama to attack Konoha out of spite, that had nothing to do with the Moon's Eye plan. Nagato thought that bringing pain to every individual would create peace...peace out of fear. Things like this completely pass moral boundaries, especially considering there were alternatives to their choices on how to bring peace. Much of what they did was out of anger, not to help (though, helping to bring peace was the core goal).

Nagato and Obito are anti-villains at best. They can also be well-intentioned extremists.

Spot on with that, Chie.
I think that Hebi Sasuke (when he just wanted to avenge his clan) and Itachi were anti-heroes, mainly for wanting to do something ultimately good, but on morally questioning ways.
Every "villain wich ultimate goal was peace (Nagato, Konan, Madara, Obito) were antivillains.
I think to be a true villain requires a certain degree of selfishness...

 

[SUPERDEADLYKING]

i kinda feel like tobi/obito/pain/madara were kinda the heroes lol

 

[ARGUS]

Black Zetsu was clearly the main villain of the story when he did everything for his own selfish reasons, which includes using the uchihas like toilet paper, and turning the entire shinobi world into chaos,

however the might of tiger mizuki was too much for the manga to handle which is why kishi resorted to using Pein Tobi and Madara as villains

 

[Benjamin King]

Ideology or not, a villain is considered villain for what he/she impacted upon the people. By arguing from ideology, I could simply say Hitler wasn't evil guy because he wanted Germany to be Large Empire, and that makes him a patriot, which is a good thing. But Hitler is considered evil by history for what he did to the Jews. So no, ideology isn't what determines a villain; their action is what does.

That being said, everyone character who wished for ''peace'', as long as they committed genocide in process of making their plans come to fruit, they all fall under villainy; just because they killed too many people (even those who posed no danger to them).

 

[HiddenSound]

Ideology or not, a villain is considered villain for what he/she impacted upon the people. By arguing from ideology, I could simply say Hitler wasn't evil guy because he wanted Germany to be Large Empire, and that makes him a patriot, which is a good thing. But Hitler is considered evil by history for what he did to the Jews. So no, ideology isn't what determines a villain; their action is what does.

That being said, everyone character who wished for ''peace'', as long as they committed genocide in process of making their plans come to fruit, they all fall under villainy; just because they killed too many people (even those who posed no danger to them).

Hitler's goal was never noble. To subjugate the world under Germany. That is a matter of opinion, not fact.

 

[Tennis Robot]

I think you nailed the problema in the head with that. The thing about a villain is mostly on the taxonomy: is a villain just someone who oposes the hero? Or he is that degenerated who do what he does just because he can? Someone completely avoid of empathy?
I personaly think that both cases are villains, the tragic and the ruthless. Just like we have a vast spectre of personalities, purposes and stories for a hero, why not for a villain?

There is no one like that. And it's "devoid" not "avoid".

 

[Zol]

Well, one of the core messages of this series is that there is no villain that is inherently a bad person and pure evil just for the sake of it. It's mostly just a matter of perspective and personal history. While some characters (like Hidan or Kakuzu) are portrayed more as cliche "evil" villains as others, it's probably just bcause they weren't further developed. I bet if Kishi (or the anime writers) would expand on the background of those characters, we would see that they have redeeming qualities and/or suffered some kind of tragic past.

I understand why some people don't like this kind of characterization, since humans generally like to have black and white, good and bad, us and them (just watch the news) and get uncomfortable if things get blurry.

 

[Benjamin King]

Spoiler

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Are you kidding me? There is no way you used your main to like your own post...

Get the f*ck outta here you joke xD

I apologize if that bothers you.

Hitler's goal was never noble. To subjugate the world under Germany. That is a matter of opinion, not fact.

You need to educate yourself in history, cowboy.

Summary

It is easy to blame Hitler for starting the war.
Hitler's aims were aggressive, and he openly stated them in his book "Mein Kampf" in 1924:
Destroy the Treaty of Versailles.
Create a Greater Germany (a country of all the German people).
Lebensraum (living space) to conquer land for Germany in Eastern Europe.
Once he came to power, Hitler set about doing exactly what he had said he would do. For each of his actions between 1935 and 1939, can you see which aim(s) he was fulfilling by undertaking:
1935 - Rearmament
1936 - Remilitarisation of the Rhineland
1938 - Anschluss with Austria
1938 - The annexation of the Sudetenland
1939 - The invasion of Czechoslovakia
1939 - The invasion of Poland

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[KingHashirama]

Orochimaru is the same as Madara/Obito/Nagato .... lol.



Deidara is just a butthurt kid.


Kakuzu is a bit in the Madara/obito category, only difference is he didn't turn back good.



BZ is pretty much the only person i can think of, and Hidan. in regards to what you are trying to say.

 

[HiddenSound]

Exactly. Instead of eating Burger King, read books to learn what happened in the past. You made yourself look like a fool when you try to reply to something you have no idea about. Or you could have asked Strict and FloriGlori about this.

Have a nice day, cowboy.

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WWII and Adolf Hitler are actually very fascinating subjects. Started learning bout em in middle school on my own. The Deutches Arbeit Partei, founded by an Anton Drexler, transformed into the National Socialist German Workers Party once Hitler entered.
Then after Hindenburg died he became the President along with the Chancellor, which he already was. Then became Fuhrer.

After doing unimaginably wonderful things for the German economy, he turned his eyes to Austria and orchestrated the Anschluss. The the German Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia. Despite warnings from the "most powerful" Western powers, he invaded Poland with the Soviet Union on September 1st, 1939, only to betray them later. A big mistake, one that cost Germany the war.

If you don't think Hitler's endgame was the subjugation (not conquering, those are two different words) of the world, then you do not know who Hitler is.

Orochimaru is the same as Madara/Obito/Nagato .... lol.



Deidara is just a butthurt kid.


Kakuzu is a bit in the Madara/obito category, only difference is he didn't turn back good.



BZ is pretty much the only person i can think of, and Hidan. in regards to what you are trying to say.

Not even close.

 

[EPICMenma]

Pain, Obito and Madara were more like antagonists.
Orochimaru was one of hella villains. he sacrifices everyone for his selfish goal, just like true villain.

 

[Tennis Robot]

The only reason you consider them villains is that you don't know enough about them to understand why they do what they do.

 

[KingHashirama]

Not even close.

Orochimaru = hut man of the past, who is afraid to die. And used to have something against the village (most likely related to the death of his parents). And now is a good guy aka redeemed.

 

[HiddenSound]

Orochimaru = hut man of the past, who is afraid to die. And used to have something against the village (most likely related to the death of his parents). And now is a good guy aka redeemed.

Way to simplify it as much as possible.
No, they are not the same. And you cannot be convinced of anything, so I'm not going to bother explaining their vast fundamental differences.

 

[KingHashirama]

Way to simplify it as much as possible.
No, they are not the same. And you cannot be convinced of anything, so I'm not going to bother explaining their vast fundamental differences.

-sigh-, still trying to make Orochimaru some special higher villain. smh.

 

[Tennis Robot]

-sigh-, still trying to make Orochimaru some special higher villain. smh.

Actually, that's what you're doing.

 

[Bronze]

Thanks for telling me shit I already knew years ago, whacky Paki

Is that supposed to be an insult? Because if it is, I'll disappoint you by the fact I'm not Paki. And I'll ignore the rest of whatever stuff you wrote there. Visit the link I posted, it will educate you than what your middle school failed to do.

 

[HiddenSound]

Is that supposed to be an insult? Because if it is, I'll disappoint you by the fact I'm not Paki. And I'll ignore the rest of whatever stuff you wrote there. Visit the link I posted, it will educate you than what your middle school failed to do.

No, if I wanted to insult you I'd mock your gym "culture" or whatever it is you call your hobby Lol

 

[Bronze]

No, if I wanted to insult you I'd mock your gym "culture" or whatever it is you call your hobby Lol

Insult or mock? I'm bothered by an insult or mock over an Internet? Especially by a fat pig one? Mate, you need to hop off the high horse you're on, and make friends. Lol. I won't go further than that; you'll end up crying like you were over me liking my alt's post. Lol

 

[HiddenSound]

Insult or mock? I'm bothered by an insult or mock over an Internet? Especially by a fat pig one? Mate, you need to hop off the high horse you're on, and make friends. Lol. I won't go further than that; you'll end up crying like you were over me liking my alt's post. Lol

I <3 irony
@bold XD I wish more people could see this xD