The True Villains

[HiddenSound]

How many of you guys consider Pain, Tobi, and Madara to be villains? Note there is a difference between an antagonist, which they all were, and a villain.
Personally, I don't consider these guys to be true blue villains. Why? Their goals were noble. The way they went about them were not correct, but they all wanted peace for mankind in the end.

I believe the true villains were the ones that made Pain, Tobi, and Madara hate the world and want to change it.
The true villains are, I believe, the Orochimarus. The Deidaras. The Black Zetsus. The Kakuzus. Hell, even the Gatos and the Mizukis. They are the ones that are utterly selfish, uncaring for any other individual but themselves (more or less with BZ). Those are the real evil people in my eyes. What cements that view is the thought that those are the exact kinds of people Pain, Tobi, and Madara wished to stop forever.

I find the term "villain" to be subjective, a reason I like them far more than the heroes. They're more diverse.

 

[Megax Rocker7]

dis niqqa:

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[Yuse]

A villain is one who does wrong for the sake of just doing wrong like the joker.In Nv i assume a role like that would be hidan kills for the sake of enjoying it and Gato does wrong for the sake of power and wealth so im gonna go with those 2 guys.

 

[OG sama]

Don't forget the kisames.

 

[Ansatsuken]

The real villain in Toneri Ootsutsuki.

 

[ItachiSan03]

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[Tennis Robot]

Not evil, but they are definitely the most...misguided people :/ They can still be helped though.

 

[Luciform]

danzo

 

[HiddenSound]

Don't forget the kisames.

I do not even remotely consider him a villain. He was a sadist, yes, so he was cruel. But he believed in Tobi/Madara's dream world with all his heart. He wanted to eradicate lies and go to a world of truth. And he was willing to sacrifice himself without hesitation to even slightly further that cause. If he wasn't so brutal, I'd even consider him to be a pretty good guy.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

How many of you guys consider Pain, Tobi, and Madara to be villains? Note there is a difference between an antagonist, which they all were, and a villain.
Personally, I don't consider these guys to be true blue villains. Why? Their goals were noble. The way they went about them were not correct, but they all wanted peace for mankind in the end.

I believe the true villains were the ones that made Pain, Tobi, and Madara hate the world and want to change it.
The true villains are, I believe, the Orochimarus. The Deidaras. The Black Zetsus. The Kakuzus. Hell, even the Gatos and the Mizukis. They are the ones that are utterly selfish, uncaring for any other individual but themselves (more or less with BZ). Those are the real evil people in my eyes. What cements that view is the thought that those are the exact kinds of people Pain, Tobi, and Madara wished to stop forever.

I find the term "villain" to be subjective, a reason I like them far more than the heroes. They're more diverse.

The true villain and hero is the human condition called conflict. Or to put it more simply, individuality.

 

[Tennis Robot]

The true villain is the human condition called conflict. Or to put it more simply, individuality.

No. It's the "Hedgehog [something something]".

 

[HiddenSound]

The true villain is the human condition called conflict. Or to put it more simply, individuality.

Ehhh, I don't think it's that simple. But conflict certainly plays a role.

 

[SusanooKyuubi]

Villain
a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel

Under this basic definition, yes, you could categorize most, if not all, antagonists in the series as villains, mostly because the role of villain and antagonist go hand in hand (though not always).

And the idea of nobility in villains does discredit them, a villain doesn't have to believe that the whole world needs to be damned to hell because they want it to, a villain simply needs to juxtapose a hero in some way, whether it be in ideology, in actions, or in motives.

 

[Tennis Robot]

People want to be with others, but they are unwilling to fully commit themselves to others. Everyone has barriers that they put up, out of fear. Only when these barriers are removed, when we are completely open with one another, can true understanding be attained.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I see what you're saying, but a villain is any cruel or malicious person who devotes themselves to crime. Obito was both malicious, cruel and devoted to crime. I think a villain who is cruelly malicious and devoted to crime, but for a noble means, is simply an anti-villain, similar to anti-hero.

 

[HiddenSound]

Villain
a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel

Under this basic definition, yes, you could categorize most, if not all, antagonists in the series as villains, mostly because the role of villain and antagonist go hand in hand (though not always).

And the idea of nobility in villains does discredit them, a villain doesn't have to believe that the whole world needs to be damned to hell because they want it to, a villain simply needs to juxtapose a hero in some way, whether it be in ideology, in actions, or in motives.

Devoted to wickedness or crime.
While all three of those I've mentioned have devoted themselves to wickedness or crime before, I'm mainly judging them on their end goal. Their end goal is far, far from wicked or criminal.

I see what you're saying, but a villain is any cruel or malicious person who devotes themselves to crime. Obito was both malicious, cruel and devoted to crime. I think a villain who is cruelly malicious and devoted to crime, but for a noble means, is simply an anti-villain, similar to anti-hero.

Yep, as said above, all three of those I mentioned have devoted themselves to crime before. Destroying Konoha for example. Out of them, only Pain had a reason that could be debated as justifiable. Key word being debated...
But I just cannot compare them to people like Deidara and Kakuzu, and especially Orochimaru in terms of outright devilishness.
I can't really put a name on Pain, Tobi, and Madara. But if I had to choose, anti-villain, as you said, would be most accurate.

 

[Beans2]

Deidara wasn't a villain in my eyes. He had his own passion, which was art; and while it's not necessarily a good cause, it wasn't a selfish desire, it was his appreciation of beauty. I like Deidara, a lot actually, but I wouldn't view him as a scoundrel motivated by selfish desires. Hell, he didn't even want to join Akatsuki, he was only interested in the beauty of a moment.

 

[ItachiSan03]

I do not even remotely consider him a villain. He was a sadist, yes, so he was cruel. But he believed in Tobi/Madara's dream world with all his heart. He wanted to eradicate lies and go to a world of truth. And he was willing to sacrifice himself without hesitation to even slightly further that cause. If he wasn't so brutal, I'd even consider him to be a pretty good guy.

But really, if you think about it, he was cruel out of necessity. He lived and survived during the era of the Bloody Mist (which was really brought about by the true villains). To serve his country and stay alive he needed to be brutal, and the Bloody Mist encouraged it. But really, Kisame hated it and couldn't make sense of it, and Tobi took advantage of that. When Kisame was alive he hated himself and thought himself as a terrible monster, but during his last moments he realized that he wasn't a monster, that he would willingly give his life to make a better world and protect his comrades as well as his dream. I think that's what made Kisame's death so touching, deep, and badass all at the same time. It's definitely what makes Kisame one of my favorite characters.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Deidara wasn't a villain in my eyes. He had his own passion, which was art; and while it's not necessarily a good cause, it wasn't a selfish desire, it was his appreciation of beauty. I like Deidara, a lot actually, but I wouldn't view him as a scoundrel motivated by selfish desires. Hell, he didn't even want to join Akatsuki, he was only interested in the beauty of a moment.

He's still a villain. The Joker does what he does because of his appreciation for chaos and murder, doesn't excuse him from his villainy. What Deidara appreciated as art was killing with explosions, he killed people so his art could be appreciated. That's selfish.

 

[saw2097]

Actually I consider them villains but realistic villains, contrary to popular belief in real life bad people don't consider themselves bad or do bad things just for the sake of being bad.

They often view themselves as the good guy and believe they are right and everyone fighting against them is wrong, also there goal is usually understandable (although there are exceptions like lunatics and psychopaths).

So to me Madara, Obito, and Pain are villains, they are just realistic and developed villains.