The True Villains

[Tennis Robot]

He's still a villain. The Joker does what he does because of his appreciation for chaos and murder, doesn't excuse him from his villainy. What Deidara appreciated as art was killing with explosions, he killed people so his art could be appreciated. That's selfish.

Well if selfishness denotes villainy then we're all evil

 

[Chie]

What about this freak?

Spoiler

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That Hidan. U_U

I agree with the thread and really liked it. NB needs more of these types of discussions.

 

[HiddenSound]

Deidara wasn't a villain in my eyes. He had his own passion, which was art; and while it's not necessarily a good cause, it wasn't a selfish desire, it was his appreciation of beauty. I like Deidara, a lot actually, but I wouldn't view him as a scoundrel motivated by selfish desires. Hell, he didn't even want to join Akatsuki, he was only interested in the beauty of a moment.

Yes, but he is all too happy to make people explode. If they die in his explosion, he says he's sublimated them... :l Deidara isn't necessarily out to kill people, but he is very malicious and very insane.

But really, if you think about it, he was cruel out of necessity. He lived and survived during the era of the Bloody Mist (which was really brought about by the true villains). To serve his country and stay alive he needed to be brutal, and the Bloody Mist encouraged it. But really, Kisame hated it and couldn't make sense of it, and Tobi took advantage of that. When Kisame was alive he hated himself and thought himself as a terrible monster, but during his last moments he realized that he wasn't a monster, that he would willingly give his life to make a better world and protect his comrades as well as his dream. I think that's what made Kisame's death so touching, deep, and badass all at the same time. It's definitely what makes Kisame one of my favorite characters.

I pretty much agree. I wish his death effected me more u_u

 

[Sir Blades]

I on the fence with Orochimaru. But I'll agree with everything else.

 

[HiddenSound]

Well if selfishness denotes villainy then we're all evil

That's deep and I love it.

 

[Beans2]

He's still a villain. The Joker does what he does because of his appreciation for chaos and murder, doesn't excuse him from his villainy. What Deidara appreciated as art was killing with explosions, he killed people so his art could be appreciated. That's selfish.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Deidara's idea of art doesn't necessarily mean killing people in his explosions.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well if selfishness denotes villainy then we're all evil

Not selfishness inherently, but murdering and other malicious acts in the name of selfishness.

 

[HiddenSound]

What about this freak?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

That Hidan. U_U

I agree with the thread and really liked it. NB needs more of these types of discussions.

I forgot Hidan :/
But yeah, he's definitely one of the worst.

 

[Tennis Robot]

That's deep and I love it.

I'm sorry to hear that I'm afraid of it. Makes me think there is no way to be a good person.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Deidara's idea of art doesn't necessarily mean killing people in his explosions.

No, it doesn't, but he gets gratification from the destruction it causes, which includes lives. He claimed his greatest work of art would be one that would "leave a scar on the earth itself", showing that the destruction it caused pleased him very much, and taking lives was part of that, making him a villain.

 

[HiddenSound]

I'm sorry to hear that I'm afraid of it. Makes me think there is no way to be a good person.

It's not so black white. Maybe humans are fundamentally evil. That doesn't prevent us from doing good and great things. There are those who stray from the pack. The MLKs, the Jesus' (if you believe that sorta thing), the Gandhis, etc.

 

[Meee]

I see where you're coming from and i dont necessarily think they're evil like the "true villains" you listed but i still consider them villains if that makes sense.

 

[Cunning Linguist]

It's not so black white. Maybe humans are fundamentally evil. That doesn't prevent us from doing good and great things. There are those who stray from the pack. The MLKs, the Jesus' (if you believe that sorta thing), the Gandhis, etc.

Even MLK cheated on his wife. Jesus attacked bankers in the temple. Gandhi seemed fine. But people are in it for themselves unless working together is beneficial

 

[ItachiSan03]

I'm sorry to hear that I'm afraid of it. Makes me think there is no way to be a good person.

IMO, at the end of the day, if you've touched the lives of those around you in a positive way, that's more than enough.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

Ehhh, I don't think it's that simple. But conflict certainly plays a role.

It's very simple. Do you really believe you could live your life where everything is perfect and everyone is happy? You never feel sadness, frustration, no need to think, argue or debate, worry, create, work for your meal or your goals? It'd be boring as hell dude lols, at least for me. It doesn't really take any great philosophy courses or other studies to figure out. It's really a very basic thing you can learn through every day life. Shall I give you a few examples from literature and media?

In the matrix, which from what I've heard Kishimoto based IT on, Smith stated the first Matrix was supposed to be a perfect world. A harmony with happily ever afters forever and where everyone would be happy, but it turned into a disaster because our individuality and instincts could not be caged or suppressed and it drove everyone crazy. The killed themselves and each other, if the rejection of the programming didn't kill them first. Due to this, the architect redesigned it in the image of the reality of the twentieth century. As such, everything went smoothly and very few to none resisted the program. Only the "ones" like Neo could because they could sense the programming and realize it was fake.

Another example would be a Ray Bradbury short story (I can't remember the name) where the world is ruled by one government and everything is at peace, everyone is perfect with no conflicts, worries, goals, etc. They all look the same, dress the same, act the same, smile the same, do the same activities, have the same pastimes and hobbies, etc. Dolls, drones or robots basically. However, one very intelligent man becomes fed up with it and decides to go on a rampage, breaking many small rules and laws, crashing a party and stealing a book, which is forbidden in society, finding a gun, not to steal money or jewels with, but simply to scare people and see their expressions and emotions because he's so sick of their creepy, happy little doll faces and nothing ever changing. In the end however, he is shot and killed, thus his ideals and individuality disappear, thus everything goes back to "normal."

 

[Dannie]

I still don't understand why people consider Obito, Nagato and Pain to be villains when they all just wanted peace.

I agree op.

 

[SusanooKyuubi]

It's not so black white. Maybe humans are fundamentally evil. That doesn't prevent us from doing good and great things. There are those who stray from the pack. The MLKs, the Jesus' (if you believe that sorta thing), the Gandhis, etc.

Not really, pretty much every human being is born a blank slate. If there's one thing that stuck with me from psychology, our environments (along with other things) can dictate how we treat other living beings, regardless of whether we side more with light or dark.

EDIT: Oh, I'd consider characters like Obito and Nagato more as anti-heroes instead. Characters like Madara, Idk.

 

[Tennis Robot]

IMO, at the end of the day, if you've touched the lives of those around you in a positive way, that's more than enough.

That's the thought that I cling to, and I hope it's true. But then it hurts so much more seeing yourself hurt others...Or feeling as if you aren't doing anything at all, like you're being ignored. That might be even worse.

 

[Punk Hazard]

IMO, at the end of the day, if you've touched the lives of those around you in a positive way, that's more than enough.

Even Jeffrey Dalmer was friendly.

 

[Chie]

Not really, pretty much every human being is born a blank slate. If there's one thing that stuck with me from psychology, our environments (along with other things) that can dictate how we treat other living beings, regardless of whether we side more with light or dark.

EDIT: Oh, I'd consider characters like Obito and Nagato more as anti-heroes instead. Characters like Madara, Idk.

They aren't anti-heroes.

An antihero or antiheroine is a leading character in a story who, unlike a traditional hero, acts in an unheroic manner and lacks conventional heroic qualities such as idealism, courage and morality.

Being an antihero is just being a hero who isn't afraid to get their hands dirty, but they still have a moral compass in that they try their best not to do anything that is unnecessary.

Obito used Kurama to attack Konoha out of spite, that had nothing to do with the Moon's Eye plan. Nagato thought that bringing pain to every individual would create peace...peace out of fear. Things like this completely pass moral boundaries, especially considering there were alternatives to their choices on how to bring peace. Much of what they did was out of anger, not to help (though, helping to bring peace was the core goal).

Nagato and Obito are anti-villains at best. They can also be well-intentioned extremists.