MS Obito vs Mu
- Thread starter Beans2
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No that's not it at all. Unless we're going to assume Mu didn't go invisible when he fought the Mizukage cuz from what we know, he didn't only encounter the Mirage, he also encountered Joki boy.
Asides that, there's no evidence that Mu went invisible against Madara since we don't know how that went down.
He sensed Hashirama from miles away when he was an Edo...One can't learn the ability to sense when they're already dead.
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IF youre going to ignore with the manga scan itself and just say that Viz didnt state it, then show me the Viz scan,
till then we can establish
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, meaning that sharingan is never locating him, seeing how the only way it can track its target is through seeing their chakra, and even if you manage to find the Viz scan, it will still not help you, since its clear as day that muu completely erases his chakra
and Lol, contact sensing, such as gaaras sand works because the target interacts with the users chakra, and has a direct connection with it, however sharingan has no way of doing that meaning that obito is not doing much here
both of ur examples dont support ur point at all, and are just further emphasising that ur wrong here, since they both involve chakra being well present and not hidden either, which was why the sharingan was capable of seeing through it
when
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due to her chakra being suppressed, as far as
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meaning that muu is not getting located at all,
apart from seeing chakra, the sharingan has shown no other way of locating its target, and obitos fanfic way of magically seeing through muu, let alone attacking him, is certainly not happening,
So we're completely going to ignore the fact that Gaara managed to sense his presence with sand?
...
At the bold. Can you not see the contradiction? Really?
This is the reason why manga hype shouldn't be taken too literally.
it worked because it formed a link with gaaras sand,
when i mean presense i mean chakra and physical shape,
i dont mean that he literally kills himself, and you interpreting like that is whats funny
great example buddy,
i have provided the scans yet instead of proving me wrong you state that im taking the hype literally.
sharingan has shown no other way of locating its target apart from seeing its chakra,and until you show me scan that states otherwise, only then iill concede
So if he hides his chakra or suppresses it, then how did Gaara locate him due to his chakra?
You only provided scans of him being supposedly invisible, and stretched the scans to him being non existent and superior to that other ninja which you can't really prove since it has so many contradictions.
Didnt i just tell you that, read before you just comment again,
Nope, with his chakra hidden/suppressed, it means that sharingan has no hope of locating him, its as simple as that
bring forth some arguments, bcz its clear that you dont have any here, yet you say that my post has contradictions Lol
Well lets just agree to disagree then seeing as there's no concrete way to prove where the jins actually were during the time of the attack. Regardless though, my point still stands.
Once the 5 minutes is close to reaching it's limit obito can simply traverse underground to another location & he will be far enough away to reset it without worry. No matter how fast muu may be, the time it takes obito to reset his limit is much too short to give muu a proper window to attack during.
Again, he doesn't need to since intangibility will still work.
Muu can't stay invisible forever, so if it comes down to a battle of attrition then obito wins due to superior reserves. Obito doesn't need to initiate the fight here, muu is the one wasting more chakra by keeping on invisibility so all obito has to do is avoid all attacks while keeping an eye out for openings should they appear.
Lol I should be asking you the same thing. What does having a 2nd direction to attack from do? Doesn't change the fact that obito can still easily change locations to reset should he need to.
Where did I ever say that obito's perceptions allow him to attack someone who's invisible? Never once, so this point isn't relevant to the discussion.
Proof that muu has faster [not better] sensory capabilities than karin who failed to sense obito as he saved sasuke? Otherwise your belief that he can even sense obito in time is baseless.
Plus, obito can simply phase underground & use it to travel a vast distance, so even if muu can sense obito he will be much too far away to do anything about it.
Lol Hinata is a bad example, she didn't sense obito until after he already appeared in the real world & since his appearance was off panel you have no proof that she noticed him immediately.
I on the other hand have proof that obito can solidify & warp away before a sensor can even pick up on it, therefore your statement suggesting that muu can sense, reach, & attack obito before he can finish resetting is a joke at best.
Lol You're telling me I'm the one using the fanfic when I always bring forth evidence to support my claims. Where's your evidence suggesting that muu can even come close to obito before he resets? Don't have any? Well then I may as well call your claims fanfiction. U_U
He still had no idea of how fast it was moving or when it would reach him, and besides this doesn't explain all the times where he's done the exact same thing. Face it, intangibility protects obito from his blindspots, just as it's done on multiple occasions.
He doesn't need to & I never once said that obito will be playing the offensive game here, you're the one who's allowing muu to use invisibility & splitting, with this kind of strategy the guy will tire himself out eventually. While on the other hand all obito has to do is use kamui for this fight, & with senju reserves he easily waits for an exhausted muu to eventually slip up.
Nonsense, it's merely your opinion that these examples are obvious. The manga shows us ninja attacking obito from his blindspots yet he still manages to avoid them via kamui. Obito isn't a sensor so claiming that he would have any prior knowledge of these jutsus is also invalid.
Muu tires himself out trying to hit an intangible obito & eventually gets warped away.
Fisson jutsu gives muu an extra pair of hands, okay cool. Now if only that somehow enabled him to move as fast as minato... Unfortunately that isn't the case, so it doesn't change anything. U_U
Btw I noticed this while browsing the VS [Itachi vs Muu]:
Lmao are you serious? You believe that itachi's susanoo will be able to tank everything thrown at him yet you don't believe kamui can avoid everything? I smell bias & now I'm not sure if I should take you seriously.
I've already posted it [
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]. So once again, no, VIZ dosn't mention presence and VIZ is the official translation. He hides his form and chakra, but in the xontext Kabuto was speaking, it is in terms of sensing as you cannot possibly use contact sensing to detect someone with no form, makes 0 sense. He doesn't erase it completely, only in the context of sensing, and last I checked Sharingan isn't a means of sensing, but a dojutsu in its own league.If Mu has no chakra, he dies [
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] as chakra is directly proportional to stamina. No chakra means he dies. And I've already posted the DB explanation of the camouflage technique, it uses chakra inflections to conceal his presence and becomes hidden from other sensors, but not Dojutsu users. Same applies here, you can't sense the chakra within the person since it's concealed, but you can see it because it exists. Simple as that. Until you can disprove the DB's generalisation for Mu, show me why Kabuto said Mu has no form if he wasn't contextualising sensing and can show me how Mu survives without chakra at all, then we have nothing to debate here other than blind faith from Mu fans.Muu would be able to sense him when he has parts of his body in the real dimension meaning that obito would still get attacked,
intangibility only works when obito activates it, and when he knows that muu is coming,
however that isnt the case here, meaning that obito gets attacked just fine
Since when is invisibility taking away ''alot'' of chakra from Muu? unlike obito he doesnt have a time limit on his invisibility,
furthermore when muu uses his invisibility based attacks they are pure taijutsu meaning taht he is not using his chakra,
and Lol how is obito magically ''avoiding'' attacks when he has no way whatsoever of perceiving them?
He can only change the locations if he knows whats coming, he doesnt know here,
and Lol having another entity means
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oor when he solidifies to attack one, the other one can just come and attack him,
and muu would know when he solidifies thanks to his sensing
having the diversions completely disrupts his kamui based moveset,
yes it is, because you have basically admitted here that obito has no way of attacking muu then? meaniing that he has no way of winniing
Lol what is this?
karin failed to sense obito since his body was in the other fkn dimnesion, however once he solidifies he gets located just how any otherr charadcter does, especially when obito used kamui to save him,
and Lol Muus sensing skills are immense,
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, and he also managed
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and he also
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so this is more than enough proof that muus sensing is fast enough
This is only relevant when obito can actually tell where muu is attacking from,
and Lol why would muu be far away ?
Lol she located him just fine,
when he manifests physically he can be sensed just how any other character can,
No you have no proof just fanboyism,
you have failed to prove anything whatsoever on how obito can even tell where muu would attack him from
you also severely underestimate his sensing,
and you have also failed to prove that how obito is even landing a hit on him, especially when you cant locate him,
Lol becaause there is no evidence thats why,
reacting to a clearly visible raiton kunai that also carries alot of sound doesnt prove anything at all, nor is it of any relevance that obito can magically attack muu,
you have also ignored most of my scans, and failed to address anything, and then you state that im using fanfic, come on man
Again for the trillionth time,
how woulld obito know when to actiivate his intangbility when he has no clue at all on where he is attacked from,
Lol you clearly lack knowledge here
unlike obito, muu is not using chakra based attacks when he iis invisible,
nor does he have a time limit on his invisiblity, unlike obitos kamui,
5 minutes are not enough for obito to outlast muu, its not enough for anyone to outlast a kage level nin,
Lmao yu say that my opinion is biased yet is clear that you have no basis for ur argument at all,
apart from saying that obito wins just because you want him to, smh
i was on the same boat as you in this match up, but its clear that obito loses here
Already addressed, stop repeating the same thing over and over again, when youre just wrong here
unfortunately obito has no way to tell where he is getting beheaded from, nor can he risk warping it, due to getting backfired,
and he would just get attacked by ''another pair of hands'' if he attempts to attack another clone,
so muu doesnt need to move as fast as minato in-order to beat him,
Itachis ribcage can certainly tank a sword based attack,
and it certainly has a higher durability than obitos body, so NO, unlike you, there is no bias here,,
And you have proven ur lack of interpretation,
the VIZ scan has clearly stated
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,and when have i stated that sharingan is a means of sensing, im well aware that it can locate, however it only locates the target through seeing their chakra, and with muus chakrra being hidden, means that sharingan is not doing shit
what horrible logic, muu hides his chakra, meaning that the sharigan will not be able to see or locate him, its common sense
and his invisbility can still be used for non chakra based attacks, therefore taijutsu or kenjutsu are just fine,
and lol muus invisiblity clearly compennsates for the visual aspect, since the sharingan wont be able to see him nor his chakra,
and Lol you call me a muu fan hahahaaaaha, just because i disagree with you, that doesnt make me a fanboy, typical NB logic
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Benjamin King
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Chakra cannot be erased, as that would mean Mu would die straight afterwards and cannot use Ninjutsu; which was disproved when he can fly and be invisible at the same time. So how is it erased, then? Exactly, it makes no sense. Thus, it's suppressed like Karin to make it impossible to be detected by Chakra sensors.
In regards to what Kabuto said, his statement is a metaphor - cannot be taken too literal. That would essentially mean Mu has no Chakra if he was said to have ''non''. If people want to take statements too literal while ignoring other manga components, like without Chakra results death or description of the databook, that's what you call Half - truth: no limits fallacy.
And by according to the manga, Mu's invisibility only works on sensors. Sharingan isn't a sensor, thus argument becomes invalid. Sharingan sees Charka Flow, Mu doesn't control the existence of his Chakra; no Shinobi is capable of that. Sharingan sees through his useless invisibility, that's how Madara low-diffed him and Onoki.
In regards to what Kabuto said, his statement is a metaphor - cannot be taken too literal. That would essentially mean Mu has no Chakra if he was said to have ''non''. If people want to take statements too literal while ignoring other manga components, like without Chakra results death or description of the databook, that's what you call Half - truth: no limits fallacy.
And by according to the manga, Mu's invisibility only works on sensors. Sharingan isn't a sensor, thus argument becomes invalid. Sharingan sees Charka Flow, Mu doesn't control the existence of his Chakra; no Shinobi is capable of that. Sharingan sees through his useless invisibility, that's how Madara low-diffed him and Onoki.
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Sensing doesn't do anything here, so what if he can sense parts of him? He isn't hitting him, & if obito phases underground then muu loses his position anyways which is the most important part.
Wrong & again wrong, intangibility activates once obito is about to be attacked, then it becomes automatic until obito deactivates it manually. [As shown in ch: 605] & While it's active nothing is able to touch him, as shown when attacks from behind still had no effect. It's a defense that doesn't rely on obito's senses & minato clearly demonstrated that you need to be instant in order to bypass it.
Lol I love how you quote a word that I didn't even use, show me where I ever said it takes a lot of chakra? Unlike muu obito has senju reserves yet muu does not, & the time limit is easily reset.
The only thing that keeping an active invisibility is going to do is drain muu.
So? Invisibility drains chakra, so regardless if he uses taijutsu or not he's still constantly wasting chakra.
Because as I said earlier kamui is automatic, it doesn't rely on obito's senses as shown through the multiple pages of obito avoiding attacks he had no idea were coming. Unless obito deactivates it himself [which he will only when he resets] he isn't being hit by invisible attacks.
Are you not even listening to my argument? Doesn't seem like it. U_U
Obito changes locations to reset, that's the only reason why he would do so. & Who are you to say what obito can & can't do?
Lmao why on earth would obito allow himself to get caught in that situation? Either obito waits for muu to run out of chakra & has to merge again, or he warps them both at once, or he uses izanagi to let muu stab him in exchange for warping him away.
Not in the slightest, maybe if obito was stupid these tricks would work but obito thought that kakashi was out of chakra & thus unable to hit him, he was completely unaware of the massive refill he just got. Obito isn't going to be dumb enough to warp away 1 out of 2 healthy opponents who have full info, what do you think he's a gennin or something? U_U
No it's not, just because he can't perceive muu while invisible doesn't mean that he can't ever hit muu at all during this fight. That's an absolutely ridiculous conclusion to come to, almost as ridiculous as saying that muu will somehow hit obito despite being slower than others who've failed.
,
Why are you spouting fanfiction? Obito had to solidify in the real world in order to warp sasuke away meaning karin failed to sense him fast enough, same thing happens with muu unless you can prove otherwise.
Lel, none of those kage are sensors so this point is irrelevant, you need to compare his sensing speed.
This is more of a speed feat than a sensing one. He should have sensed naruto from a further distance than point blank, if anything it shows that KCM naruto was nearly too fast for him to sense in the first place. Either way it doesn't prove that he is somehow faster at sensing than karin.
Again the only decent thing about this scan is the speed feat. Cool, muu was able to sense the attack after they already did it, sensors like karin will sense a disturbance in the chakra immediately, [
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] & sensors like nagato can sense an attack before it even occurs. [
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] Therefore, karin would have sensed that attack just as easily as muu did.Wrong, it becomes relevant as soon as the 5 min limit is nearing it's end.
Lol Because muu cant track obito underground so he can travel as far away from him as he wants.
She located him after he was already in the real world, she didn't sense him as he was doing it which is the difference here. If sensors like karin [who could sense chakra disturbances immediately] couldn't sense obito saving sasuke, then nothing tells me that muu will be able to either.
Laughable, you're the itachi wanker who says that he would win against muu when obito can't with a better defense, & I'm the fanboy? oh jeez.
Proved with manga scans from the first page that obito's kamui can react to attacks that he is unaware of. You want to deny it then that's your problem but don't blame me for your ignorance. U_U
You overestimate it, nothing allows muu to sense faster than karin, therefore they will sense at the same speed as her.
Seriously how many times do I have to tell you that he doesn't need to immediately, he simply waits for muu to exhaust himself then finishes him off. Ever heard of "the best offense is a good defense"? Well that's exactly what applies here.
Lmao, well then how about all the other examples I provided? Are you going to try & debunk them all? because if you try to then Ill just bring forth some more. There is overwhelming evidence in my favor but you simply can't accept it, obito has used kamui to evade attacks that he's unaware of, to deny that statement is to deny the manga.
No I havent, your last post didn't even have any scans. Lol
And I'll give you the exact same answer, obito has used kamui to avoid attacks that he's unaware of in the past, being invisible doesn't change that.
Well you clearly lack knowledge in general. U_U
As I addressed, invisibility still drains chakra & with lower reserves than obito muu will be the one exhausting himself.
Again went over this this, he relocates & resets it.
Read above.
Stupid point, my argument clearly has basis, this is just you trying to throw petty insults into the argument & the fact that you think I'm being a fanboy as implied by the bold makes this statement an ad hominem.
Yet you haven't in any way proven otherwise, hilarious.
Read above, doesn't need to.
Again, read above, he isn't on the offensive.
Yes he does.
Hahaha, "unfortunately obito itachi has no way to tell where he is getting beheaded from." - Kifflom
Are you blind to your own arguments or what? Lol
Durability is worthless here if muu can attack itachi whenever he wants while invisible. There is a clear bias here & you're just not seeing it. U_U
you are briniging the same BS over and over again which i have already addressed over 3 times,
obito is not magically awakening intangibility when he has no way of even telling where he is getting attacked,
and even if obito has a slight part solidified, muu can perfectly attack him there thanks to his sensing enabling him to locate him just fine, and Kamuis limit just gets bypassed by muu
@Bold - since when has intangibility ever been an automatic jutsu?,
obito actually has to activate it,
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and @Bold Lol - ur using the same fanfic obito sensing again, when he has no way of ''sensing'' or locating muu,,
he wont know where or when to prevent himself or activate intangibility here, meaning that muu attacks him just fine, and obito wont be doing shit,
Lmao invisibility which has no stated time frame unlike kamui, as well as the fact that muu wont even be using any chakra based attacks whilst he is invisible would somehow magically run out before obito? especially when all he needs is one well coordinated attack from his kenjutsu to behead obito Lol, please, stop.
if thats ur only claim of basis then you need a new one or you just concede,
by that logic kamui drains chakra as well
No its not, the raiton infused kunai example was already addressed and debunked yet you clearly ignored that,
and no, kamui being automatic is also fanfic, and just pure BS
and Lol ofc hes getting hit by invisbility attacks when he has no way of perceiving them, meaning that he is not activating his intangiblity properly therefore he gets killed
Yes im listening, and i have addressed ur points, yet it seems like you have ignored my points and are just blabberring on an on about obito winning yet yu have no arguments at all,
Because katons and mokutons are restrictted in this match up, he has no other way of attacking him,
and Lol Muu would have fission here, if obito does magically use izanagi here, and warp one of muus clone, then not only can he get attacked from the other dimension but with muu having intel he can simply wait for him to run out and then kill him
You bringing out the obito was acting ''stupid'' is just a pitiful excuse,
he has no way of telling the difference between a real and a fission, meaning that he will fall for the same trick again if he does manage to warp a clone
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if he cant percieve muu, then he cant tell where he is getting attacked from, meaning that he gets attacked and killed before he hopes of landing a single blow on him,
he is getting attacked just how he did against minato
and Lol speed has nothing to do here, and you bringing that out is just ridiculous
His sensing speed is fast enough to sense the oncoming attack and even evade it, thats pretty good,
the attack still has speed, which even someone of third raikages speed failed to evade, yet muu evaded it,
so yeah its still valid since it has to do with sensing and reflexes something that you questioned me about,
Nope its both seeing as how he sensed naruto early and fast enough to allow him to even evade his attack,
him being able to sense naruto alone means that his sensing is top notch, and him evading it just tops it up even more,
and Lol karin has not shown sensing feats faster than muu, its plausible to say that her sensing can be better but that doesnt mean its faster
Denial at its absolute finest, Muu sensed the attack before it occurreed, so the nagato example isnt helping, and muu senseed an attack much quicker than amaterasu and with a chakra built up much smaller than it as well, all of this was sensed well before it was executed,
karin couldnt even percieve V2 Ays movements despite being a sensor, however muu clearly sensed lightened Ay who is faster,
your funny questioning of muus sensing speed is just funny when he is one of the best non-god sensors in the manga
THen he would automatically lose due to BFR
Lmao why wont he exactly?
Obito sends his body parts to the real dimension, then muu senses their chakra just how any sensor can,
and seeing how hinata was able to locate obito once he solidified should be clear enough that muu can sense
Laughable, you're the itachi wanker who says that he would win against muu when obito can't with a better defense, & I'm the fanboy? oh jeez.
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just because i state that one character beats the other doesnt make me a ''wanker'' Lol
I just smell butthurt here,
Susanoo is more durable than Obitos body, so there is no wank here,
What scans? because what i have seen, show no relevance to obito attacking muu at all,
yet you say that im ignorannt Lol please bring forth an argument, otherwise just stop
Lol i have already addressed this, stop repeating the same BS over and over again
Lol how does he do that exactlly? oh wait he doesnt
because 5mins are not enough for muu to get outlasted,
he simply stays within close proximity to obito and attacks him the moment he solidifes
again, there have been no examples or scans from you in both of ur previous posts, and any of ur mentioned scans had already been debunked in the previous posts,
and No, youre the one who seems to be too reluctant to admit that obito loses here, just bcz hes ur fav doesnt mean that he is invincible,
either brring something new, or concede otherwise im not wasting my time,
Not really because those attacks were either seen by obito or had clearly prominent things like shape size or sound that enabled obito to phase through them
Lol
Chances are that obito proceeds to attack him head on, and gets killed within the first blow Lol
and 5-10 mins are never outlasting muu, especially when invisibility would barely take a toll on him
Lol nope, all ur argument has is that obito can magically activate kamui, and attack muu,
and that invisibility drains muu completely when chances are that muu can simply spam it for long periods
Proven what? ur fanboyism, i dont think i need to
Thats why he has his susanoo activated, so that he could tank the sword based attacks
and comeon man, ur just being reluctant now, the fact that you even brought another thread into this is just beyond me,
i expected more from you, i thought yu wud be a decent debater but i guess i was wrong
no im naht
again, his susanoo prevents him from the attacks,
and i dont see why ur bringiin this thread here, i have stated multiple times that im iffy on muu vs itachi, however this battle is definitely being won by muu thats for sure
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As have you proven your lack of grammatical accuracy and comprehension skills.
Where did it say presence? That's right, it only said form and chakra. Erasing chakra=death. He's flying is he not? He flies without chakra? That's cool, didn't know he had an anti-gravity suit on him. Not established at all.
Yes, and unless it's gonna see right through Muu and not know he's there despite using chakra inflections to hide his form and chakra to fly, it is rather obvious he is perceivable. And you just contradicted yourself in the bold. Mu's chakra being hidden means it's still there--not erased; thus Sharingan sees it.
Once again in bold. He's flying, so you once again, contradict yourself. And that's not true, Sharingan will see him like it sees everything with its clairvoyance.
Nothing to do with NB logic, it's abundantly clear you are his fan, and thus are contradicting yourself left and right so that Mu comes out victorious in this match. I have showed you why Mu has form while invisible [
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]. Thus, Kabuto was speaking in the context of sensing, which means his chakra is simply suppressed, in that context and in a logical context. Having no form=Not being sensed with contact sand as he's not there. Having no form in a sensory context=not sensed by normal sensory means due to his chakra being concealed. His chakra not being there=he's dead. His chakra being there but Kabuto saying it has no form=In a sensory context. Too bad that Sharingan still sees the concealed chakra as it is indeed existent. "Lol"
TRE MERCER
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Not sure why this is being debated when Muu's fanfic turning his sword invisible feat is the Muu debaters main argument.
U_U
Lol No you haven't, & no matter what you call it you still can't refute it. U_U
Yes he is, as I have proven
Lol this doesn't change anything. Minato needed to be instant in order to bypass intangibility, muu isn't doing the same here. Sensing enabling him to attack obito? Lmao really?
- Since it's been shown that it can activate even if obito is unaware of the incoming attack [
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-
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]- Since it's been shown in ch: 605 that it activated on it's own as soon as obito awakened the mangekyou [
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-
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]- Since it's been shown in ch: 606 that obito had to manually turn it off after failing to touch rin [
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-
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]It's automatic unless he deactivates it himself
Wrong, he has avoided attacks from his blindspots, meaning he had no way of knowing when to use intangibility during those moments. Since this is an established fact, that means invisibility will yield the same result.
& Again, Idk why you're using minato as an example. As I already stated minato can bypass intangibility due to moving instantly. He teleported behind obito & hit him as he deactivated his intangibility, then once obito was marked that means minato was able to teleport to obito instantly, thus bypassing kamui's defense.
Muu can't move instantly, so he can't bypass kamui the same way that minato did, muu still has a normal striking speed & as I have shown kamui can avoid non-instantaneous attacks even with obito being unaware of them.
Lol Are you ignoring my points on purpose? Again...As I said, kamui does all the work for him, he can't sense anything so enough of your assertions, kamui doesn't rely on obito's five senses [smell, touch, taste, sight, sound] not sensory abilities... U_U
He doesn't need to, kamui activates once muu gets close enough to attack just like in canon, & Once it does obito can then do [
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] to intercept the attack, or [
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] to figure out muu's location. [But he doesn't have to, he can stay on the defensive the whole fight should he choose to].Smh
- So what if kamui has a time frame? That doesn't mean it costs more chakra than invisibility, irrelevant point
- Show me scans of kamui draining obito's chakra, as far as we know it takes just as little chakra to activate it as invisibility does, then on top of that add in the fact that obito has senju reserves & we can see the clear gap when comparing the two.
- Compare muu's feats to obito's feats, muu can only use a few jintons at best before he runs out of chakra [
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]. Obito controlled multiple bijuu, the gedo statue, the juubi, fought two jinchuuriki, the SA, & kakashi on a seperate occasion, & throughout all of that he still had enough chakra to produce juubi level katons & use intangibility nonstop during his battles.You're telling me that a shinobi who can't even use two consecutive jintons is able to compete with the chakra feats that obito's shown us?? Now do you get why I can't take you seriously? You're just plain ignorant to compare muu's chakra levels to obito's, let alone say he would be outlasted by him.
And as I have proven kamui is nowhere near as taxing on obito as invisibility would be on muu due to the massive gap between the two chakra wise. Muu doesn't have senju reserves, & muu hasn't done anything that one could consider a comparable feat to what obito showed us. The evidence points towards muu having much less chakra than obito, by feats & by portrayal.
Btw, obito can warp to his dimension at any time to refill his chakra, but this point is only needed if you can somehow properly explain how muu will outlast obito [which isn't happening under any circumstances].
Because that's only one out of multiple & I already addressed it previously before you brought it back up for some reason. Anyways I want to move on so unless you can debunk every single example I provided then this is irrelevant. There are still multiple scans that support my argument therefore my interpretation is much more likely [kamui activated for obito] than yours [obito activated it because he heard the kunai, despite being completely focused on grabbing naruto].
Based on what? Give me your evidence... Lol, already provided scans of obito's kamui activating without his knowing, & I provided a scan of obito having to deactivate it in order to touch rin.
There is overwhelming evidence in my favor, yet I see no support on your end to even make a decent rebuttal.
He doesn't need to activate it as I established, so enough repeating yourself, either move on or stop replying.
Yet I'm the one with the relevant evidence here? Good lord kifflom I thought you were one of the decent 2014 members here, looks like I was severely mistaken if you're going to blatantly disregard everything I said. If I had no arguments then why are you still debating in the first place? Flawed logic & redundancy on your part, you already tried your best to explain how muu wins so if I have no argument according to you then you should have dropped this debate [p]ages ago.
Doesn't change anything I said, never mentioned either jutsu once.
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough, obito uses izanagi if he already has one clone in his dimension, albeit in a weakened state as to avoid the same thing with kakashi, but obito is not leaving a healthy clone with full intel in his dimension, especially if that clone can fly.
Obito never acted stupid, kakashi was low on chakra & so obito warped him away, he figured kakashi was too weak to do anything in the first place. Obito wasn't stupid here, he was actually smart, he just didn't anticipate kurama's chakra sharing.
As I said he isn't an idiot, he will wait for muu to tire out then either let him split, warp both clones at once, or warp one then izanagi with the other... Or maybe even izanagi both since he has 10 minutes of invincibility.
Lol Wow, how many times are you going to repeat this? Ill just give you the same response until you either accept it or debunk every single scan regarding obito being attacked from his blindspots; Obito has used kamui to avoid attacks that he was unaware of in the past, being invisible doesn't change that, not even a little bit.
Not unless muu can move instantaneously.
Again wrong, speed has everything to do here.
Nothing a normal sensor can't do.
Muu evaded it due to his sensory abilities + reaction time, raikage had no way to anticipate the attack, muu did. If muu didn't evade it then it would just mean that he's a slow character, not that his sensing is worse than what you showed me.
No I questioned you about how fast muu can sense an attack as opposed to karin, & that has nothing to do with reflexes. There is nothing suggesting that karin would be unable to sense the same thing that muu did which is my point.
He sensed naruto early? I'm sorry but I must have missed the scan where he stated that. Anyways my point is that because muu allowed naruto to get so close [the closer an enemy is = the more danger you're in] that means he was either unable to sense him until then, or naruto was moving so fast that muu was having a hard time keeping up with him.
So in other words this isn't a significant sensing feat, it's merely a decent speed feat.
Lol? How does being able to sense naruto have any relevance? Chakra is chakra, just because naruto's chakra moves fast doesn't mean that normal sensors can't pick up on it so I fail to see your point. As shown through karin, sensors can detect chakra disturbances almost immediately. Just because naruto can run fast doesn't mean he can't be sensed by others.
Show me where I stated in this entire thread that karin can sense faster than muu? The evidence & common sense tells us that all sensors sense chakra disturbances/anomalies at the exact same time which is near instant, as shown through karin who noticed danzo's chakra drop immediately.
Yes muu has faster reflexes than karin, but he can't sense any faster than she can, therefore the fact that she couldn't sense obito means that muu can't either.
You're the one in denial if you believe this changes anything. But first I want you to prove it, prove that muu was able to sense the attack before it began [not before it hit madara]. But in any case I believe based on the evidence that all sensors are equal in terms of "sensing speed", so muu probably did sense it before it occurred. However just like with the previous two paragraphs you missed my point again. Sensors can sense chakra disturbances immediately meaning they all have relatively the same speed when it comes to that, meaning if karin failed to sense obito then muu would be in the exact same situation, unless of course you can prove that muu is a faster sensor than karin.
I hope you don't miss my point next time. U_U
Regardless if he sensed quicker than ama, nagato sensed the build up, karin senses immediate chakra disturbances [same thing basically], therefore if muu sensed the build up in ay's attack then he's only fulfilling the prerequisite of every decent sensor ever. Meaning he can't sense faster than karin & he will end up in the same situation as her.
Would love evidence of the bold, because as far as I know karin was never unable to perceive ay in V2. She sensed him during two instances & both times she was still able to sense him before he landed his attacks, same with cee. [
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]Besides muu as a sensor should be able to sense the build up before onoki & ay charged in for the attack regardless, just like any other sensor would. Therefore this doesn't make his sensory abilities any faster than karin's or nagato's, or cee's even.
& Yet I have established that anyone with sensory capabilities can sense chakra disturbances immediately, what determines if they can avoid the attack or not is their reflexes/reaction time.
Until you give me a scan of muu clearly sensing faster than any other sensor then he will sense at the same speed as karin, cee, sages, hell even juubi jins sense at the same speed as everyone else, but they're obviously much faster at reacting.
& Before you go on trying to undermine that statement or claim I'm being a fanboy think about it with some logic for a second. Sensing is, well a sense [sight, sound, etc.] therefore it would make sense if the same principles apply to it. & If that's the case then sensing would be the same thing as sight where everybody sees the same thing occur at the exact same time due to the speed of light which is consistent for everyone, everything else is determined by reflexes.
Now take that concept to sensing, it would be illogical to say that two people can sense the same thing at different times. It makes much more sense however to say that there's a speed at which chakra manifests/builds up & that speed is consistent for everyone, like the speed of light or sound. Therefore the only thing that determines whether "sensor A" is faster than "sensor B" is their reflexes/reaction time.
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U_UBattlefield removal; Muu can only cause a BFR if there is a set boundary that obito isn't allowed to cross or if muu somehow forces obito into a location where he can't escape from.
In actual fact, obito is the one who would beat muu due to BFR because he's forcing muu into another dimension that he can't esacape from. If you can escape from it, then it isn't a BFR.
Because karin didn't & I already established why sensors sense at the same speed. Nothing in the manga suggests otherwise either.
What? This doesn't even make sense within the context of my quote. Obito warped faster than karin could sense, phasing underground to another location removes muu's chances at tracking him, & finally if muu does sense obito then he still can't hit him. This response was irrelevant.
The bold is what you're not understanding, we have no idea for how long he was solid, when obito is able to perform a much better feat by becoming solid in front of a sensor then this makes the hinata example outdated & irrelevant. We know he can warp faster than sensors can sense, so just because hinata saw him off panel after he solidified doesn't automatically mean she can do it if she was in karin's position.
No it's because you said that a much less equipped character [one of your favs] has any chance against muu [most likely another one of your favs, could be wrong though U_U] while obito has none despite showing all the techniques required to effectively counter him. If that doesn't reek of wank then Idk what would.
Well I didn't know that susanoo can be maintained forever? /sarcasm :| The wank is getting obvious at this point. So itachi can somehow magically maintain susanoo for a longer period of time than muu can become invisible now? So that means [according to you]:
A] Susanoo is a better defense than kamui :|
B] Itachi can last longer than muu who can last longer than obito :|
I don't even know what I'm reading anymore...
Reread the thread then because they're clearly there. Obito avoiding an attack from behind isn't relevant to an invisible opponent attacking him? Smh
I already have on multiple occasions, now counter them or stop wasting my time.
No you havent, your examples were rubbish, you haven't proven in any way that muu is a faster sensor, please if you say you've addressed the points then at least address them.
Lol Nice argument.
Then obito resets as I have stated multiple times
Obito phases underground then muu completely loses his location, meaning obito can appear a mile away from the battlefield to reset if he wishes & muu can't do sh*t.
Then how about you address the scans on page one, the ones I was talking about in the first place? You only gave one possible excuse for the kunai example yet you believe that my other scans have been debunked as well? Lol addressing one scan =/= shattering the overwhelming evidence against you.
Where did I ever say that obito is invincible? I will admit when obito loses but it isn't here. & My opinion on obito's character has no effect on how I debate for him, however I tend to go more in-depth with him than usual, but that's because of the many possibilities regarding kamui. That doesn't make me biased, especially when I've brought solid arguments with legitimate support to the table.
Then don't waste your time, doesn't bother me. I don't need to bring anything new when you haven't even addressed the old.
[
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] [
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] Now what's your excuse gonna be this time? Obito heard them falling from the sky? LolObito will not attack someone who has full info on his abilities & invisibility head on, plus muu isn't touching obito so muu gets killed in the end.
Obito easily resets, any other points?
Magically? There's no magic to it, that's just how his ability works as demonstrated.
Doesn't matter, muu's reserves <<< Obito's so the length of the battle is irrelevant here, the only thing that matters is that muu will eventually get tired before obito will.
Still haven't seen a single argument debunking my supported claims. Okay you believe I'm a fanboy, well that's just your opinion. But I know that when someone can't rebut my arguments & then resorts to calling me a fanboy based on nothing other than losing said argument, that means I've ultimately won in the end.
So as I said earlier this means you believe that itachi can outlast obito then? Lol
I brought it here to prove your bias which is clear as day. You think susanoo > kamui in terms of defense & you think itachi > obito in chakra reserves. How can anyone expect to come to you for an opinion when it's that skewed?
& I expected a somewhat decent debate with a seemingly logical 2014 member, not a sh*t slinging contest with another ignorant one who thinks they know nothing but the truth.
**Note to all 2014 members: Not all 2014's are bad & I don't generalize, but a good amount of the one's I've seen are missing some basic common knowledge.**
Kinda are
Again, so itachi's chakra reserves > muu's > obito's according to you? Lol I'm done here.
Really? because I don't remember you ever saying it was iffy, you confidently gave itachi the win in your initial post which was your unaltered opinion.
& No it's not, not when you can't even rebut the fact that invisible attacks don't work on obito. You have given me next to nothing in response, you haven't disproved any of my points, & worst of all you think I have no argument here to begin with. Laughable, simply laughable.
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Let's see here. Juubi Jin Madara clothes regenerated when his body was blown off does that means he has regnerating clothes? Not to mention it's common knowledge that the user clothes are going to presume the trait of their body seeing as Roushi covered his body in lava so does that means his clothes are tough enough to tank lava's heat? Etc i could go on and on but i think you get it...