Uchiha Sasuke vs Uchiha Madara

[QdonEms]

Restrict PS and sasuke could win via legged susanoo, Enton arrow, or blitzes him since he has no sage mode to react. Otherwise madara shits with PS slash.

 

[ARGUS]

Could go either way,
madara can attack him more often due to him having more blades than sasukes which is where the main offense of PS comes from

however, sasukes PS should be superior here thanks to the KCC and the senjutsu boost

it all depends on attrition,

 

[Unorthodox]

if Madara has Kurama he wins without its a tie

 

[KidGamer65]

Well amigo, when there are no feats to oppose the opposition theres not really an argument that can be made that doesn't fall under speculation therefore its not solid evidence and I wouldn't use it seriously as the foundation of the argument.

I'm just asking you how you came to the conclusion that his Susanoo is that much weaker. The only argumentation that falls under speculation, is you and everyone else who says Madara's Susanoo is FAR superior to Sasuke's, despite there being no evidence for you to claim that. You can't say its fodder to his, because it has no feats. That doesn't make sense.

-With the boost, his Legged Susanoo was tiers above Madara's. The same will happen with PS, as I explained to Blunt.

-Without the boost, the gap between their Susanoo's strength isn't anywhere near as large as you people make it seem. Why would it be the same with PS?

The above isn't speculation. Its logical deduction based on prior evidence.

 

[Benjamin King]

Unfair comparison. That is MS Sasuke, with the thinnest Susanoo he's ever made, and EMS Madara w/ the largest ribcage he's ever made. Sasuke has made thicker Ribcages since getting EMS, so this doesn't count.

There is no proof that EMS gives boost in defence to Susanoo. Kabuto's SM Suiton ran through EMS Sasuke's ribcage effortlessly. [

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] Even so, if you want to make a comparison between EMS, Mei used a massive quantity and quality of Suiton Dragon, and it did minor damage to Madara's ribcage. [

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] And it took the combined effort from Tsunade's full force and Ay enhanced by Onoki to fully break the ribcage. No feat showed Sasuke having any defence comparable to that, and your analogy of EMS's boost would be false, as the manga never pointed out any boost to Susanoo.​

Madara's V3 Susanoo was obliterated by Hirudora. It wasn't V2 as it had a muscular looking body and arms.

That's not the point here. Hirudora is a dense compressed air pressure, whereas Danzo's Futon in conjunction with Baku's has much less pressure than Hirudora, opened Sasuke's V3 wide open. Which feat is going to be greater?​

3x was the boost the raw chakra from Kurama gave to Kakashi. The cloak using Naruto and Yang Kurama's chakra is way over 3x, and the one from Yin and Yang Kurama and Naruto is way over that. So Sasuke's Susanoo would be way above Madara's.

I doubt that, considering Naruto's BSM didn't have a boost in size nor a significant boost in attack or defence. Either way, the boost is only important if Sasuke's Susanoo itself is comparable to Madara's Susanoo before receiving a boost. Otherwise, the Chakra boost is useless.​

You can see two explosions. One made by SS and one made by Bijuu Dama. (the one where the wood particles are seen flying around) PS didn't take both attacks, it was destroyed by SS alone.

Both Shinsuusenju and PS were on the hypocenter position. So yes, they both took the full force of the explosion.​

Sasuke tanks and uses repeated slashes to eventually break open Susanoo, and kill Madara. Or he outlasts him.

Where in the world is Sasuke's Susanoo going to tank multiple slashes, let alone? One slash is mountain range > [

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]. Madara created 11 of those, and can remotely control their direction [

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]. Sasuke's Susanoo is clearly not tanking the 11 of them, let alone 2 or 3. Sasuke isn't going to outlast someone who has closer reserves to Hashirama's - read Apex's explanation.​

 

[KidGamer65]

There is no proof that EMS gives boost in defence to Susanoo. Kabuto's SM Suiton ran through EMS Sasuke's ribcage effortlessly. [

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] Even so, if you want to make a comparison between EMS, Mei used a massive quantity and quality of Suiton Dragon, and it did minor damage to Madara's ribcage. [

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] And it took the combined effort from Tsunade's full force and Ay enhanced by Onoki to fully break the ribcage. No feat showed Sasuke having any defence comparable to that, and your analogy of EMS's boost would be false, as the manga never pointed out any boost to Susanoo.​

Sasuke's Ribcage looked bigger and thicker after getting EMS, so that is all the proof you need. Unless you are implying that a thicker and larger Susanoo is less durable than a thinner and smaller one?

Once again, you are using unfair comparisons. This is what you compare to Madara's larger Susanoo. They both have the spine forming behind them and they both have the extremely thick ribs and the larger size.

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Sasuke's Susanoo was wide open in the front, so its no wonder that Kabuto's Suiton broke right through it, not to mention Suiton deals concussive damage, so hitting the target against the ground with it yields more damage than hitting them in the air like Mei did.

That's not the point here. Hirudora is a dense compressed air pressure, whereas Danzo's Futon in conjunction with Baku's has much less pressure than Hirudora, opened Sasuke's V3 wide open. Which feat is going to be greater?​

There is no feat here. Madara's Susanoo didn't tank Hirudora, it was completely obliterated. So you can't use that as a feat to say its superior to Sasuke's by far. Especially when your reasoning for Hirudora>>>Danzo's Fuuton doesn't make sense. Danzo's Fuuton doesn't operate based on pressure, so the amount of pressure it carries isn't related to its strength. Hirudora being condensed air pressure doesn't automatically put it above everything that isn't condensed air pressure.

I doubt that, considering Naruto's BSM didn't have a boost in size nor a significant boost in attack or defence. Either way, the boost is only important if Sasuke's Susanoo itself is comparable to Madara's Susanoo before receiving a boost. Otherwise, the Chakra boost is useless.​

Based on what? BSM didn't show anything to lead you to believe that it had no massive boost, so you apply basic knowledge of Senjutsu, and you come to the conclusion that a Senjutsu Bijuu Dama from BSM Naruto is going to be much stronger than a normal Bijuu Dama of the same size, from BM Naruto.

Lol, no its not. Not when this boost is going to end up boosting Sasuke's Susanoo to FAR over 6x it's normal strength, and that's just the Kyuubi Cloak, not Senjutsu. Raw chakra boost from Kurama is 3x boost. The cloak was stated to be much more than that, and the cloak Sasuke has here is double the power up.

Both Shinsuusenju and PS were on the hypocenter position. So yes, they both took the full force of the explosion.​

Nope.

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The explosions started at the constructs, and then shot outward, thus most of the attack did not hit them, and it was not the same explosion, nor did it occur at the same position, so them being the center means nothing. PS only took the full brunt of SS's attack and SS only took the full brunt of PS Kurama's attack.

Where in the world is Sasuke's Susanoo going to tank multiple slashes, let alone? One slash is mountain range > [

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]. Madara created 11 of those, and can remotely control their direction [

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]. Sasuke's Susanoo is clearly not tanking the 11 of them, let alone 2 or 3. Sasuke isn't going to outlast someone who has closer reserves to Hashirama's - read Apex's explanation.​

He cut those Mountains because of its AoE, not because it has the energy yield to power through 6 Mountains at once. It has Mountain level energy behind it, and when he extended that Mountain level energy in 360 degrees, the shockwave extended, cut, and extended all those Mountains.

His reserves aren't on par with Hashirama's.

Madara still wins. When all of the Kyuubi cloaks were taken into account, they were comparable to Hashirama's. A single cloak won't be much of a gap closer for someone who lasted a few seconds less than Hashirama himself (not saying his chakra levels are that close, but they are somewhat close nevertheless). Unless Sasuke receives a 8 tailed Kyuubi cloak to amp up his PS, it is unlikely to compete with Madara's. If hypothetically however, Sasuke's PS was capable of reaching Madara levels of PS through this one Kyuubi cloak, amped by Enton, would conclusively give Sasuke a victory.

The bold isn't the way to determine his reserves, because Hashirama constantly threw out Mokuton Constructs that were Bijuu+ sized in scale, along with Shinsuusenju, which was FAR above Bijuu scale, dwarfed Kurama. Madara, for most of the fight, used Kurama to fight. Kurama is the one exerting most of his chakra while Madara only has to exert chakra to control it. Then he briefly used Perfect Susanoo. Nothing compared to what Hashirama did...and he still had chakra to make a clone while Madara couldn't even maintain Sharingan.

 

[Benjamin King]

I have studies atm, so I'll reply later.

 

[Zee U]

A Kyuubi chakra cloak leveled V3 Susanoo from building level to mountain level. Susanoo's arrow failed to penetrate fully through a stalagmite, while KCC V3 obliterated a mountain sized Shinju root like it was butter. The gap is so big it isn't even funny. Unless you think that Madara's PS is more than 5 times stronger than Sasuke's, the latter wins this match without breaking a sweat. When Madara's strongest jutsu is inferior to that of his opponent there really isn't too much to discuss.

 

[Apêx1]

The bold isn't the way to determine his reserves, because Hashirama constantly threw out Mokuton Constructs that were Bijuu+ sized in scale, along with Shinsuusenju, which was FAR above Bijuu scale, dwarfed Kurama. Madara, for most of the fight, used Kurama to fight. Kurama is the one exerting most of his chakra while Madara only has to exert chakra to control it. Then he briefly used Perfect Susanoo. Nothing compared to what Hashirama did...and he still had chakra to make a clone while Madara couldn't even maintain Sharingan.

Madara still fought Hashirama for 24 hours non-stop, a feat EMS Sasuke cannot replicate. By feats, Madara has far more chakra than EMS Sasuke, thus can output more chakra into his own PS making the defence stronger, since there's more of it. Anyways, I said Madara wasn't that close in reserves, so you making it seem like I claimed they had identical reserves isn't beneficial to the debate.
-Madara has greater chakra thus a larger PS
-Kyuubi cloak increasing Sasuke's chakra by 3 or 4 times doesn't imply him being able to use PS on Madara's scale, given the fact Sasuke has nothing to suggest he can fight for 6 hours, let alone more.

 

[Rιver]

I don't know where you are going with this one, KidGamer. Madara obviously obliterates Sasuke's Susano'O while Sasuke can't do the same for Madara. Size comparison is something that can't be argued. It's clear as day. Even with the lack of MS feats, Madara opens his PS like a tin can.​

 

[DemonicAvenger]

There is no proof that EMS gives boost in defence to Susanoo. Kabuto's SM Suiton ran through EMS Sasuke's ribcage effortlessly. [

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] Even so, if you want to make a comparison between EMS, Mei used a massive quantity and quality of Suiton Dragon, and it did minor damage to Madara's ribcage. [

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] And it took the combined effort from Tsunade's full force and Ay enhanced by Onoki to fully break the ribcage. No feat showed Sasuke having any defence comparable to that, and your analogy of EMS's boost would be false, as the manga never pointed out any boost to Susanoo.​

Sasuke's eyes have been "leveling up" throughout the war, similar to how he did with MS. Later, his Ribcage is enough to block Tailed Beast Malleable chakra. Even if for just a moment and the part that came into contact was destroyed. [

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][

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Madara still fought Hashirama for 24 hours non-stop, a feat EMS Sasuke cannot replicate. By feats, Madara has far more chakra than EMS Sasuke, thus can output more chakra into his own PS making the defence stronger, since there's more of it. Anyways, I said Madara wasn't that close in reserves, so you making it seem like I claimed they had identical reserves isn't beneficial to the debate.
-Madara has greater chakra thus a larger PS
-Kyuubi cloak increasing Sasuke's chakra by 3 or 4 times doesn't imply him being able to use PS on Madara's scale, given the fact Sasuke has nothing to suggest he can fight for 6 hours, let alone more.

Shinobi have Knead/Release limits, they can't just pump all their chakra into a Jutsu. That's why Naruto continuously had to train to get bigger and stronger Rasengan's by buffing up his Knead/Release.​

​

 

[Benjamin King]

Sasuke's Ribcage looked bigger and thicker after getting EMS, so that is all the proof you need. Unless you are implying that a thicker and larger Susanoo is less durable than a thinner and smaller one?

Once again, you are using unfair comparisons. This is what you compare to Madara's larger Susanoo. They both have the spine forming behind them and they both have the extremely thick ribs and the larger size.

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Sasuke's Susanoo was wide open in the front, so its no wonder that Kabuto's Suiton broke right through it, not to mention Suiton deals concussive damage, so hitting the target against the ground with it yields more damage than hitting them in the air like Mei did.

Size has got nothing to do with the strength, defence and offence of Susanoo, at all. Because by that reasoning, EMS Madara's PS > Rinnegan Sasuke's PS in defence, as it's bigger in size. Susanoo's strength comes from the Chakra of the user; it's a manifestation of Chakra. Madara's Chakra > Sasuke's Chakra in quality and quantity, thus stronger Susanoo.

There is no panel shows Sasuke's ribcage had a hole on it from up front; clearly none. It looked fine from here:

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Huh? Concussive damage deals brain damage. That had nothing to do with Kabuto breaking Sasuke's ribcage. He broke it through pure strength.​

There is no feat here. Madara's Susanoo didn't tank Hirudora, it was completely obliterated. So you can't use that as a feat to say its superior to Sasuke's by far. Especially when your reasoning for Hirudora>>>Danzo's Fuuton doesn't make sense. Danzo's Fuuton doesn't operate based on pressure, so the amount of pressure it carries isn't related to its strength. Hirudora being condensed air pressure doesn't automatically put it above everything that isn't condensed air pressure.

Futon is air. Danzo's Futon uses air pressure in form of cutting, while Hirudora uses air pressure in form of blast. They both fall under the same category, so a comparison can be made between them.

Hirudora at full force broke through Madara's V3 Susanoo.
Danzo's Futon made a big gap in Sasuke's V3 Susanoo.
Hirudora has stronger air pressure than Danzo's Futon.

Thus, Madara's V3 Susanoo is greater than Sasuke's V3 Susanoo in terms of durability, as it needed to be destroyed by a stronger attack.

The bold makes no sense. If Hirudora contains denser air pressure, then it's going to be stronger than a weaker air pressure.​

Based on what? BSM didn't show anything to lead you to believe that it had no massive boost, so you apply basic knowledge of Senjutsu, and you come to the conclusion that a Senjutsu Bijuu Dama from BSM Naruto is going to be much stronger than a normal Bijuu Dama of the same size, from BM Naruto.

, no its not. Not when this boost is going to end up boosting Sasuke's Susanoo to FAR over 6x it's normal strength, and that's just the Kyuubi Cloak, not Senjutsu. Raw chakra boost from Kurama is 3x boost. The cloak was stated to be much more than that, and the cloak Sasuke has here is double the power up.

@Bold, where is the proof for the bold? How did you come to the conclusion that it's going to be ''much'' stronger, when there were no feats to make it possible to conclude that? We've never even seen the explosion from Senjutsu TBB, and considering it failed to break through Gududama alongside Sasuke's Senjutsu Arrow, implies its boost is not that big. And also, the Yang Chakra when mixed with the Yin Chakra would boost up Naruto's BM to Kurama's original size; however that didn't happen.

That's not how it works. If Sasuke's normal Susanoo without any boost is far lower in every quality than Madara's Susanoo, then by a boost from Kurama won't put it any greater than Madara's Susanoo. That boost is solely dependent on Sasuke's abilities, and considering Sasuke's natural abilities are much weaker than Madara's, Kurama's boost is useless.​

Nope.

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The explosions started at the constructs, and then shot outward, thus most of the attack did not hit them, and it was not the same explosion, nor did it occur at the same position, so them being the center means nothing. PS only took the full brunt of SS's attack and SS only took the full brunt of PS Kurama's attack.

That's not how you determine explosions. A radius from an explosion has a specific ranges, and those ranges determine the damage done in that range.

Spoiler

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I have drew the circle of the centre from where SS and PS were standing at, and that's where the explosion started:

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Use the diagram and compare it to the panel, SS and PS were on the hypocenter. That's where most of the damage of explosion will take place, as it's the centre.​

He cut those Mountains because of its AoE, not because it has the energy yield to power through 6 Mountains at once. It has Mountain level energy behind it, and when he extended that Mountain level energy in 360 degrees, the shockwave extended, cut, and extended all those Mountains.

The AOE is dependent on the energy output. Shock-waves aren't going to appear magically, they appear by an energy output.​

His reserves aren't on par with Hashirama's.

The bold isn't the way to determine his reserves, because Hashirama constantly threw out Mokuton Constructs that were Bijuu+ sized in scale, along with Shinsuusenju, which was FAR above Bijuu scale, dwarfed Kurama. Madara, for most of the fight, used Kurama to fight. Kurama is the one exerting most of his chakra while Madara only has to exert chakra to control it. Then he briefly used Perfect Susanoo. Nothing compared to what Hashirama did...and he still had chakra to make a clone while Madara couldn't even maintain Sharingan.

Never said they were on par. I said they were comparable. Given the fact they're both reincarnations of their ancestors.

-Controlling a Bijuu takes a heavy amount of Chakra. [

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]
-The use of Juubi-sized Katons that are comparable to the construction of Mokuton made by Hashirama.
-The constant usage of Susanoo.

And the fact he fought a full day against Senju, which Sasuke has never once replicated such feat. So why should I believe Sasuke's Chakra is greater than Madara's, when Madara's feats puts him above Sasuke's? I have no reason to.​

Sasuke's eyes have been "leveling up" throughout the war, similar to how he did with MS. Later, his Ribcage is enough to block Tailed Beast Malleable chakra. Even if for just a moment and the part that came into contact was destroyed. [

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][

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]
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The Gududama damages at specific area. It's not something that spreads wide, like Kabuto's Jutsu did.​

 

[Apêx1]

Sasuke's eyes have been "leveling up" throughout the war, similar to how he did with MS. Later, his Ribcage is enough to block Tailed Beast Malleable chakra. Even if for just a moment and the part that came into contact was destroyed. [

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][

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]​

​

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Not necessarily a feat that demonstrates growth.

Shinobi have Knead/Release limits, they can't just pump all their chakra into a Jutsu. That's why Naruto continuously had to train to get bigger and stronger Rasengan's by buffing up his Knead/Release.​

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Based on what? The only reason Naruto couldn't use massive Rasengans earlier on is because his chakra control doesn't allow him to do so. He couldn't control large quantities of chakra with his hand while keeping its spin and shape perfect, hence he used smalled versions. As the war proceeds and he gains proficiency, he is capable of doing so. Hence, when in KCM, his chakra control increases thus he can utilise stronger jutsu. Hence, when he powers up again and goes into BM, he can utilise even greater jutsu variations. Same thing is the case for Sasuke, in a way. Sasuke cannot output that much chakra into a PS, nor does anything imply he could stabilise something as large as Madara's PS, since the Kage's were absolutely astounded by the fact Madara could, insinuating great chakra control. I don't understand where this knead limit came from.

 

[Rιver]

What many do not understand, is that chakra itself is one of the least factors for Douryoku's development; the anatomy of Douryoku revolves around yīn. It is not the amount of chakra, it is the quality of the chakra that decides what color, shape and form the Susano'O takes. This is why people considered as good, like Itachi, have Susano'O color considered as good; vice versa for Sasuke and Madara. Many times Sasuke's special yīn has been referred to as "hatred"---likewise Madara's, has been referred to as "strength of chakra". However, Madara as a wicked and treacherous man possesses greater yīn reserves than EMS Sasuke.​

 

[Apêx1]

What many do not understand, is that chakra itself is one of the least factors for Douryoku's development; the anatomy of Douryoku revolves around yīn. It is not the amount of chakra, it is the quality of the chakra that decides what color, shape and form the Susano'O takes. This is why people considered as good, like Itachi, have Susano'O color considered as good; vice versa for Sasuke and Madara. Many times Sasuke's special yīn has been referred to as "hatred"---likewise Madara's, has been referred to as "strength of chakra". However, Madara as a wicked and treacherous man possesses greater yīn reserves than EMS Sasuke.​

It's not that different than Madara's in the beginning of part 2 [

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], I'm sure it's progressed a lot since, potentially identical to Madara's. The only difference is chakra quantity and the ability to stabilise such a mass of chakra.

 

[KidGamer65]

Madara still fought Hashirama for 24 hours non-stop, a feat EMS Sasuke cannot replicate. By feats, Madara has far more chakra than EMS Sasuke, thus can output more chakra into his own PS making the defence stronger, since there's more of it.

By himself? No. But he has a cloak comprised of Naruto, Yin and Yang Kurama's chakras, added onto his own reserves.

@underlined: I'm going to go with the level of power Madara has consistently shown throughout the manga. Sasuke's Susanoo is getting a boost from Senjutsu, and a boost from a cloak far stronger than a cloak that gave a boost over 3x. Even if 3x was the minimum. Its laughable that anyone would think Madara's Susanoo is still superior after factoring in these boosts.

Anyways, I said Madara wasn't that close in reserves, so you making it seem like I claimed they had identical reserves isn't beneficial to the debate.

Except not once did I say that you did nor did I make it seem like so. I only explained why Hashirama's reserves are above Madara's, and its not close at all, which is what you stated, is it not?

-Madara has greater chakra thus a larger PS

Ok. His PS is larger, but Rinnegan Sasuke got half of Rikudo's chakra, yet his PS is still smaller than Madara's.

-Kyuubi cloak increasing Sasuke's chakra by 3 or 4 times doesn't imply him being able to use PS on Madara's scale, given the fact Sasuke has nothing to suggest he can fight for 6 hours, let alone more.[/QUOTE]

I don't know where you are going with this one, KidGamer. Madara obviously obliterates Sasuke's Susano'O while Sasuke can't do the same for Madara. Size comparison is something that can't be argued. It's clear as day. Even with the lack of MS feats, Madara opens his PS like a tin can.​

Even though we already know that no one would argue that Madara's Complete Susanoo opens Sasuke's like a tin can...but of course, PS must be something special..Lol. Not one person in this thread has given me any kind of reasonable explanation as to why the bold is true. You go on about size, even though Madara's PS is still bigger than Sasuke's PS, but we all know whose PS fodderizes whose.

Size doesn't equal power. Give me a real reason as to why Madara's PS opens Sasuke's like a tin can instead of repeating the same thing countless others have said.

 

[Apêx1]

Didn't know senjutsu was being given to Sasuke? I don't see that anywhere in the OP, but I may be missing something here.
Sasuke's PS when he gets Rikudo's chakra is using a smaller amount of chakra than Madara's yet is much more powerful because his chakra is much more potent and likely comprised solely of Rikudo's Yin chakra. On the other hand, Madara's chakra is likely more potent than EMS Sasuke's given he had more time to develop as Indra's reincarnation. Even if say, Sasuke could create a PS as large as Madara's, a large majority of it would be comprised of the Kyuubi's chakra, which was stated to be less potent than Hebi Sasuke's chakra by the Kyuubi himself. So unless his Susano is being given pure senjutsu here, I fail to see any reason as to why Sasuke's Susano, which is amped by chakra less potent than Madara's, is being put on par with Madara's.

 

[Blackwatch]

Madara med diff. He's everything EMS Sasuke is, but better.

 

[KidGamer65]

Didn't know senjutsu was being given to Sasuke? I don't see that anywhere in the OP, but I may be missing something here.
Sasuke's PS when he gets Rikudo's chakra is using a smaller amount of chakra than Madara's yet is much more powerful because his chakra is much more potent and likely comprised solely of Rikudo's Yin chakra. On the other hand, Madara's chakra is likely more potent than EMS Sasuke's given he had more time to develop as Indra's reincarnation. Even if say, Sasuke could create a PS as large as Madara's, a large majority of it would be comprised of the Kyuubi's chakra, which was stated to be less potent than Hebi Sasuke's chakra by the Kyuubi himself. So unless his Susano is being given pure senjutsu here, I fail to see any reason as to why Sasuke's Susano, which is amped by chakra less potent than Madara's, is being put on par with Madara's.

Oh lol. My bad. I confused it with my discussion with DA.

Even though the bold isn't a sound argument, I can agree. The rest doesn't make sense. The potency of the Kyuubi's chakra isn't the judge of the strength of Sasuke's Susanoo. Its a boost to his already existing Susanoo. It takes it and multiplies its power. The only potency that determines the strength of Susanoo is Sasuke's chakra.

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is leagues above

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. [

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] Going off of each of their displays, so either you stick with your reasoning and say that Sasuke's chakra is more potent than Madara's, or you agree with my argument and come the conclusion that the potency of the Kyuubi's chakra has nothing to do with the strength of the Susanoo. Its a multiplier. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[KidGamer65]

Size has got nothing to do with the strength, defence and offence of Susanoo, at all. Because by that reasoning, EMS Madara's PS > Rinnegan Sasuke's PS in defence, as it's bigger in size. Susanoo's strength comes from the Chakra of the user; it's a manifestation of Chakra. Madara's Chakra > Sasuke's Chakra in quality and quantity, thus stronger Susanoo.​

I already know this, but if the Susanoo becomes thicker AND larger at the same time, then its defense will increase. Taking the same exact Susanoo and simply making it bigger doesn't increase defense.

There is no panel shows Sasuke's ribcage had a hole on it from up front; clearly none. It looked fine from here:

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Ok, but refer to DAs point.

Huh? Concussive damage deals brain damage. That had nothing to do with Kabuto breaking Sasuke's ribcage. He broke it through pure strength.

I meant Blunt Force.

Futon is air. Danzo's Futon uses air pressure in form of cutting, while Hirudora uses air pressure in form of blast. They both fall under the same category, so a comparison can be made between them.​

Futon being air doesn't mean that its air pressure, nor does it mean that the amount of air pressure the Futon carries (If that even makes sense) is relevant to the strength of Danzo's attack. All Air=/=Air Pressure.

Hirudora at full force broke through Madara's V3 Susanoo.
Danzo's Futon made a big gap in Sasuke's V3 Susanoo.
Hirudora has stronger air pressure than Danzo's Futon.

Irrelevant. A stronger attack doing more than what a weaker attack did to Sasuke and Madara's Susanoo doesn't mean anything here. That's like saying if Ay's attack did nothing to KCM Naruto, but an Oodama Rasengan obliterated KCM Minato, that based on that and based on that alone, that Minato is more durable.

Lol, no.

Thus, Madara's V3 Susanoo is greater than Sasuke's V3 Susanoo in terms of durability, as it needed to be destroyed by a stronger attack.

Lol, no. You are going to need concrete evidence that Hirudora is the attack needed to destroy V3 from Madara.

The bold makes no sense. If Hirudora contains denser air pressure, then it's going to be stronger than a weaker air pressure.

Except air pressure isn't the determinant of power when talking about Danzo's Fuuton.

@Bold, where is the proof for the bold? How did you come to the conclusion that it's going to be ''much'' stronger, when there were no feats to make it possible to conclude that? We've never even seen the explosion from Senjutsu TBB, and considering it failed to break through Gududama alongside Sasuke's Senjutsu Arrow, implies its boost is not that big. And also, the Yang Chakra when mixed with the Yin Chakra would boost up Naruto's BM to Kurama's original size; however that didn't happen.​

Senjutsu makes attacks much stronger. Stated and shown many times.

SM FRS>>Base FRS.

SM Rasengan>>Base Rasengan.

So Senjutsu Bijuu Dama>>normal Bijuu Dama of the same size. This isn't anything new we are talking about here. Its already a fact that Sage Mode boosts Ninjutsu. And what are you talking about with the bold?

The fact it didn't break through the Gudo Dama only means that the Gudo Dama is durable enough to take a Bijuu Dama, not that the Bijuu Dama is weak.

That's not how it works. If Sasuke's normal Susanoo without any boost is far lower in every quality than Madara's Susanoo, then by a boost from Kurama won't put it any greater than Madara's Susanoo. That boost is solely dependent on Sasuke's abilities, and considering Sasuke's natural abilities are much weaker than Madara's, Kurama's boost is useless.

That is obviously not how boosts work. If Person A only has 30% of the strength person B has, but Person A gets a 6x boost. He rises to 180% compared to Person B's 100%. Sasuke being weaker than Madara doesn't mean that the boost is weaker, that makes no sense at all.

That's not how you determine explosions. A radius from an explosion has a specific ranges, and those ranges determine the damage done in that range.[/QUOTE]

Yes, in this case it is cause that is what the manga clearly shows. The explosion on the left is moving toward the left side, vice versa for the right side.

Spoiler

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I have drew the circle of the centre from where SS and PS were standing at, and that's where the explosion started:

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Use the diagram and compare it to the panel, SS and PS were on the hypocenter. That's where most of the damage of explosion will take place, as it's the centre.

Except that'd be true, if that was one big explosion. But its clearly two explosions, as I already showed in the scan, and they are moving outward in opposite directions.

The AOE is dependent on the energy output. Shock-waves aren't going to appear magically, they appear by an energy output.​

The AoE is dependent on how Madara swings his sword. The energy output of the shockwave itself isn't going to change.

Never said they were on par. I said they were comparable. Given the fact they're both reincarnations of their ancestors.​

Which doesn't begin to be a reliable form of evidence. And no, they aren't comparable.

-Controlling a Bijuu takes a heavy amount of Chakra. [

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That's Kakashi referring to Obito controlling 6 at once. We are talking about 1 Bijuu here.

-The use of Juubi-sized Katons that are comparable to the construction of Mokuton made by Hashirama.

He didn't use it more often than Hashirama used his Mokuton, nor does it take as much chakra to use that Katon than it does to constantly use Mokuton at a Bijuu scale.

-The constant usage of Susanoo.

He was shown using Kurama until Hashirama hit him with Bijuu Dama, then he resorted to PS.

And the fact he fought a full day against Senju, which Sasuke has never once replicated such feat. So why should I believe Sasuke's Chakra is greater than Madara's, when Madara's feats puts him above Sasuke's? I have no reason to.

He fought a full day against Hashirama, which is irrelevant since we saw him fight at the VoTE, and using possibly other small jutsu, controlling Kurama, and using PS for that brief period of time (This wasn't a full day), tired him out.

I never said that Sasuke's chakra was larger than Madara's, I said that with the Kurama cloak he can outlast him.

The Gududama damages at specific area. It's not something that spreads wide, like Kabuto's Jutsu did.​

Lol, that'd only make it much harder for him to block it, because it carries more power, but focuses that power on one point instead of spreading it out.