Uchiha Sasuke vs Uchiha Madara

[Benjamin King]

I already know this, but if the Susanoo becomes thicker AND larger at the same time, then its defense will increase. Taking the same exact Susanoo and simply making it bigger doesn't increase defense.

That's true, but that never occurred by Sasuke or Itachi. And also, you seem to be talking about size and thickness in this point; Madara's Susanoo and Jutsu including Katon were always shown to be significantly bigger than Sasuke's and Itachi output. And that's natural because of the strength of Madara's reserves being greater than Sasuke's. So I don't get your argument of being thicker and larger being valid, when the manga have always shown Madara's Jutsu are greater in size and thickness compared to Sasuke and Itachi.

And also, there is the Yasaka Magatama when used by Madara being more in size and numbers than Itachi's and Sasuke's. The durability would apply.​

Ok, but refer to DAs point.

I read it and replied to it.​

I meant Blunt Force.

That's what I said ''he broke through by pure strength''. So, we're agreeing?​

Futon being air doesn't mean that its air pressure, nor does it mean that the amount of air pressure the Futon carries (If that even makes sense) is relevant to the strength of Danzo's attack. All Air=/=Air Pressure.

Danzo's Futon when strengthened by Baku's suction was pulling Susanoo (though it held tight), and Susanoo is dense Chakra construction. It's pretty clear that it's an air pressure.​

Irrelevant. A stronger attack doing more than what a weaker attack did to Sasuke and Madara's Susanoo doesn't mean anything here. That's like saying if Ay's attack did nothing to KCM Naruto, but an Oodama Rasengan obliterated KCM Minato, that based on that and based on that alone, that Minato is more durable.

Actually, you're wrong on that comparison. Because Naruto said Ay's punches were heavy and taking few of them would be bad. The comparison you should be making is when Naruto gets struck by blunt force and same with Minato, the stronger blunt force that did effect on either is the determined better durability. Same with Madara's V3 Susanoo and Sasuke's V3 Susanoo: Sasuke's took major damage from air pressure from Danzo's attack, while Madara's took full force of air pressure from Hirudora. If Hirudora that's stronger than Danzo's Futon, needed to destroy Madara's V3 Susanoo, then an inferior air pressure doing major damage to Sasuke's V3 Susanoo, will have stronger durability.​

, no. You are going to need concrete evidence that Hirudora is the attack needed to destroy V3 from Madara.

Based on the fact that it happened in the manga. Otherwise, no need for Gai to get tired over an attack that others can accomplish.​

Except air pressure isn't the determinant of power when talking about Danzo's Fuuton.

Except it is, when strengthened by Baku.​

Senjutsu makes attacks much stronger. Stated and shown many times.

SM FRS>>Base FRS.

SM Rasengan>>Base Rasengan.

So Senjutsu Bijuu Dama>>normal Bijuu Dama of the same size. This isn't anything new we are talking about here. Its already a fact that Sage Mode boosts Ninjutsu. And what are you talking about with the bold?

The fact it didn't break through the Gudo Dama only means that the Gudo Dama is durable enough to take a Bijuu Dama, not that the Bijuu Dama is weak.

Yes, manga did show that and it also showed no difference.

Base Rasengan struck Deva Path [

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] = Senpou Rasengan struck Asura Path [

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] = no difference in power.

Madara's Susanoo swords struck Gaara's sand [

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] = Senpou Madara's Susanoo sword struck Gaara's sand [

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I could go on forever, but I think manga show its inconsistency. The gap between base and SM is not as BIG as you think it is.

What I meant by the bold, is this is the original size of Kurama > [

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]. You said Naruto's Chakra got boosted by Yin Kurama, so when Yin and Yang Kurama mix together, Naruto's BM would have gained the original size of Kurama; which it didn't.

I also would like to note that the quality Chakra transferred to Naruto by Minato, is only dependent on how much Chakra Minato gave to Naruto. In which case, you cannot calculate that Sasuke's Susanoo is 6x times above from Yang Kurama's Chakra.​

That is obviously not how boosts work. If Person A only has 30% of the strength person B has, but Person A gets a 6x boost. He rises to 180% compared to Person B's 100%. Sasuke being weaker than Madara doesn't mean that the boost is weaker, that makes no sense at all.

Except the boost will be weaker if the gap between Sasuke's natural Susanoo and Madara's Susanoo is big, in which it is. Sasuke isn't going to receive a stronger Susanoo than Madara's Susanoo, if his natural Susanoo is a lot weaker than Madara's Susanoo to begin with. And on the point of calculation, I pointed it out above.​

Yes, in this case it is cause that is what the manga clearly shows. The explosion on the left is moving toward the left side, vice versa for the right side.

How does that change the fact manga showed PS and SS positions were on the hypocenter, where the explosion is most concentrated at?​

Which doesn't begin to be a reliable form of evidence. And no, they aren't comparable.

Yes it is, considering Indra and Ashura have equal amount of Chakra and power stated by Hagoromo, and by the Chakra given to Naruto and Sasuke. That would apply to their reincarnations. And you have yet to show they are not comparable.​

That's Kakashi referring to Obito controlling 6 at once. We are talking about 1 Bijuu here.

No, he was talking about the Bijuu in general. Even Minato said that Obito shouldn't have Kurama under his control for a while. [

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He didn't use it more often than Hashirama used his Mokuton, nor does it take as much chakra to use that Katon than it does to constantly use Mokuton at a Bijuu scale.

It was an assumption, and lol, yes it is. A Katon made at Juubi's size will tax more Chakra than a Mokuton made at Kurama's size, because Juubi's size > Kurama's size over 10x times fold.​

He was shown using Kurama until Hashirama hit him with Bijuu Dama, then he resorted to PS.

I was talking about the previous Susanoo forms.​

He fought a full day against Hashirama, which is irrelevant since we saw him fight at the VoTE, and using possibly other small jutsu, controlling Kurama, and using PS for that brief period of time (This wasn't a full day), tired him out.

I never said that Sasuke's chakra was larger than Madara's, I said that with the Kurama cloak he can outlast him.

Madara going all out isn't going to use small Jutsu, at all.

Which no evidence of that.​

, that'd only make it much harder for him to block it, because it carries more power, but focuses that power on one point instead of spreading it out.

My point still stands whether it has more power or not.

Off topic: This discussion is going to come down to agree to disagree, so we'll just have our own opinion.​

 

[ShinjuMadara]

Madara takes this, no question

 

[Apêx1]

Oh lol. My bad. I confused it with my discussion with DA.

Even though the bold isn't a sound argument, I can agree. The rest doesn't make sense. The potency of the Kyuubi's chakra isn't the judge of the strength of Sasuke's Susanoo. Its a boost to his already existing Susanoo. It takes it and multiplies its power. The only potency that determines the strength of Susanoo is Sasuke's chakra.

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is leagues above

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. [

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] Going off of each of their displays, so either you stick with your reasoning and say that Sasuke's chakra is more potent than Madara's, or you agree with my argument and come the conclusion that the potency of the Kyuubi's chakra has nothing to do with the strength of the Susanoo. Its a multiplier. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fair enough. I would agree that Sasuke's PS is greater than Madara's, or on par, had he shown the ability to stabalise the PS when as much chakra is exerted. He potentially has as much chakra, but fact remains the age difference and development could've lead to Madara's superiority. With Kyuubi chakra, I will concede and say Sasuke can in fact put up a PS as large as Madara's. I'm iffy about the stabalising part though, and the strength of it based on the potency of chakra.

 

[adeshina365]

Sasuke speed blitz gg