[Discussion] Yami Teach vs Vergo

Punk Hazard

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I said "weary," of him...

Meaning he was skeptical about him and saw him as a future dangerous element.

Shanks was on another level, he intercepted Kaidou from trying to take out Whitebeard.

My point is that Yami teach engaged with people way out of Vergo's level.

How is some vice admiral going to fight a guy who is a little bit above a Warlord.

He is so dangerous and strong that even Shanks would dignify him, if it were Vergo he would just

Turn the other way without a worry in the world.

Blackbeard is an island buster since Jaya, he was destroying towns after towns.

Not even Vergo can't compete with that...
Why are people acting like Warlord is an inherently weak rank when Kuma and the World's Strongest Swordsman are Warlords, plus the Warlords are a countermeasure to the Four Yonko themselves? People need to understand that ranks in One Piece aside from Yonko, Rookie and Admiral aren't very good at powerscaling. You can have bottom of the barrel Vice-Admirals like Smoker, then have freakin' Garp as a Vice Admiral too. You can have Buggy as a Warlord, then have Kuma and Mihawk and Doflamingo in there as well. Saying "Oh he's just a Warlord" or "He's a VA dude, gonna be tough" is dumb. It doesn't matter what rank the person is, what matters is their individual abilities, "just being a Warlord" isn't a reason they're gonna lose and "being an *insert rank here aside from Admiral and Yonko*" isn't a reason they're gonna win. "How can a Vice-Admiral face against a guy who's barely above Warlord level" Buggy>Garp then?

Island and town busting is also a broken and unusable powerscale. For one, Yami Teach's attack towards Ace and Ace's Entei didn't even span across half of an island, put together, they didn't even cross half of Bannaro[ ]. Not only that, but islands range in size vastly. What if these "island-busting feats" for Teach are actually on relatively small islands that Whitebeard, Shanks and hell, maybe even Doflamingo, shrug at? Even Kidd was roughhousing a few towns and its citizens. Give Vergo bombs and guns and he could probably take out an entire town of civilian fodder too. Shit, full-body Koka is enough for Vergo to just go around destroying 2 or 3 houses with the shockwaves each swing of his Bamboo. You're acting like every single person in One Piece is a fighter, there are normal towns with normal people that Teach could have terrorized. Look at Bannaro, they were nothing but fodder that wouldn't even be able to defend against Buggy. Destroying towns? Not really that impressive.

Shanks acknowledged Teach because he had a bad gut feeling about Teach. He felt that something was wrong. He was suspicious. That's it.
 

xanonymosx

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I said "weary," of him...
my mistake

I said

Meaning he was skeptical about him and saw him as a future dangerous element.

Shanks was on another level, he intercepted Kaidou from trying to take out Whitebeard.

My point is that Yami teach engaged with people way out of Vergo's level.

How is some vice admiral going to fight a guy who is a little bit above a Warlord.

He is so dangerous and strong that even Shanks would dignify him, if it were Vergo he would just

Turn the other way without a worry in the world.

Blackbeard is an island buster since Jaya, he was destroying towns after towns.

Not even Vergo can't compete with that...
Why are people acting like Warlord is an inherently weak rank when Kuma and the World's Strongest Swordsman are Warlords, plus the Warlords are a countermeasure to the Four Yonko themselves? People need to understand that ranks in One Piece aside from Yonko, Rookie and Admiral aren't very good at powerscaling. You can have bottom of the barrel Vice-Admirals like Smoker, then have freakin' Garp as a Vice Admiral too. You can have Buggy as a Warlord, then have Kuma and Mihawk and Doflamingo in there as well. Saying "Oh he's just a Warlord" or "He's a VA dude, gonna be tough" is dumb. It doesn't matter what rank the person is, what matters is their individual abilities, "just being a Warlord" isn't a reason they're gonna lose and "being an *insert rank here aside from Admiral and Yonko*" isn't a reason they're gonna win. "How can a Vice-Admiral face against a guy who's barely above Warlord level" Buggy>Garp then?
Island and town busting is also a broken and unusable powerscale. For one, Yami Teach's attack towards Ace and Ace's Entei didn't even span across half of an island, put together, they didn't even cross half of Bannaro[ ]. Not only that, but islands range in size vastly. What if these "island-busting feats" for Teach are actually on relatively small islands that Whitebeard, Shanks and hell, maybe even Doflamingo, shrug at? Even Kidd was roughhousing a few towns and its citizens. Give Vergo bombs and guns and he could probably take out an entire town of civilian fodder too. Shit, full-body Koka is enough for Vergo to just go around destroying 2 or 3 houses with the shockwaves each swing of his Bamboo. You're acting like every single person in One Piece is a fighter, there are normal towns with normal people that Teach could have terrorized. Look at Bannaro, they were nothing but fodder that wouldn't even be able to defend against Buggy. Destroying towns? Not really that impressive.

Shanks acknowledged Teach because he had a bad gut feeling about Teach. He felt that something was wrong. He was suspicious. That's it.
^^^^^^
 

VongolaX

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Why are people acting like Warlord is an inherently weak rank when Kuma and the World's Strongest Swordsman are Warlords, plus the Warlords are a countermeasure to the Four Yonko themselves? People need to understand that ranks in One Piece aside from Yonko, Rookie and Admiral aren't very good at powerscaling. You can have bottom of the barrel Vice-Admirals like Smoker, then have freakin' Garp as a Vice Admiral too. You can have Buggy as a Warlord, then have Kuma and Mihawk and Doflamingo in there as well. Saying "Oh he's just a Warlord" or "He's a VA dude, gonna be tough" is dumb. It doesn't matter what rank the person is, what matters is their individual abilities, "just being a Warlord" isn't a reason they're gonna lose and "being an *insert rank here aside from Admiral and Yonko*" isn't a reason they're gonna win. "How can a Vice-Admiral face against a guy who's barely above Warlord level" Buggy>Garp then?

Island and town busting is also a broken and unusable powerscale. For one, Yami Teach's attack towards Ace and Ace's Entei didn't even span across half of an island, put together, they didn't even cross half of Bannaro[ ]. Not only that, but islands range in size vastly. What if these "island-busting feats" for Teach are actually on relatively small islands that Whitebeard, Shanks and hell, maybe even Doflamingo, shrug at? Even Kidd was roughhousing a few towns and its citizens. Give Vergo bombs and guns and he could probably take out an entire town of civilian fodder too. Shit, full-body Koka is enough for Vergo to just go around destroying 2 or 3 houses with the shockwaves each swing of his Bamboo. You're acting like every single person in One Piece is a fighter, there are normal towns with normal people that Teach could have terrorized. Look at Bannaro, they were nothing but fodder that wouldn't even be able to defend against Buggy. Destroying towns? Not really that impressive.

Shanks acknowledged Teach because he had a bad gut feeling about Teach. He felt that something was wrong. He was suspicious. That's it.
Buggy as you know was put there because of Government misconception.

When I use the term VA, Warlord, and Admiral level it is as a whole, the majority of that class.

So using a stupid example of buggy doesn't work in your favor when we all know that the government usually sets a certain requirement to be among the government dogs.

Garp applies for the same concept too, he turned down all his promotions but he is so far up their in power that he can make his own decision of what rank he wants to be placed in, Oda made every well aware of that.

So does that mean that Garp= bastille?

No, because we don't count Garp to be among the majority.


Now when I say Island buster, I mean someone who can take it out with a single hit.

Doflamingo is an island buster yes, but was pre timeskip Kidd?

"No!"

Kidd took out towns, not islands...

Both of them completely different.

One town does not make up an island, because blackbeard destroyed several towns and swallowed up a whole town during his fight with Ace.

Shanks wasn't just suspicious of Blackbeard, that can be said to any other notable pirate.

He dignified him because he knew about his nature and how potentially dangerous he is.

Otherwise a yonkou wouldn't challenge him to a fight, even then knowing his level and seriousness Teach knew he wasn't ready for that kind of level.

So try not to get a head of yourself, and call other people's post "dumb."
 

Punk Hazard

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Buggy as you know was put there because of Government misconception.

When I use the term VA, Warlord, and Admiral level it is as a whole, the majority of that class.

So using a stupid example of buggy doesn't work in your favor when we all know that the government usually sets a certain requirement to be among the government dogs.

Garp applies for the same concept too, he turned down all his promotions but he is so far up their in power that he can make his own decision of what rank he wants to be placed in, Oda made every well aware of that.

So does that mean that Garp= bastille?

No, because we don't count Garp to be among the majority.


Now when I say Island buster, I mean someone who can take it out with a single hit.

Doflamingo is an island buster yes, but was pre timeskip Kidd?

"No!"

Kidd took out towns, not islands...

Both of them completely different.

One town does not make up an island, because blackbeard destroyed several towns and swallowed up a whole town during his fight with Ace.

Shanks wasn't just suspicious of Blackbeard, that can be said to any other notable pirate.

He dignified him because he knew about his nature and how potentially dangerous he is.

Otherwise a yonkou wouldn't challenge him to a fight, even then knowing his level and seriousness Teach knew he wasn't ready for that kind of level.

So try not to get a head of yourself, and call other people's post "dumb."
None of this disproves what I'm saying. Buggy being so weak that he needs the Government to be misled to include causes the credibility of the Shichibukai as a rank to be lessened. Mihawk being the strongest swordsman in the One Piece world also puts a hamper on the rank due to how high in the extremes his power is on their scale. It's a broken rank.

Same was Vice-Admirals. The fact that Garp was offered promotions to Admiral and declined and remained Vice-Admiral also puts a hamper in by causing a flux. There are no "Oh he's an exception", he's part of the rank. If you think a Vice-Admiral is below a Shichibukai, then you're saying Buggy>Garp, Buggy>Vergo, Buggy>Smoker. The fact that you have some Shichibukai who are weaker than some VAs, and vice-versa, shows the ranks flux in comparison with each other, and with others, as you can have some Shichibukai like Moriah weaker than a rookie like Luffy, but you have Kuma, Doflamingo, Mihawk and Hancock who are stronger than Luffy as he was at that time, maybe even now. You can't say "He's a VA, so he'll be weaker than so and so" because the people in the rank are on too vast distances from each other, causing big extremes. These particular ranks simply can't hold enough merit.

As for towns and islands, not all towns and islands are the same size. Let's say a town has five houses, and Ace destroys them with one Hiken. What if he goes to another town that has ten houses and can't take them all out in one blow. The former, by your standards, suggests he is town level, and the latter doesn't. What you have there is a contradiction. Now let's say the former town is all experienced Haki users who maul Ace, but then he goes to the latter town and it's all fodder and he burns it down with no trouble. See how the smaller town can give more trouble than a bigger town, once again causing too much flux.

Let's say WB went to an island, let's say, the size of half of Bannaro, and sinks it with ease using one Quake or air tilt. Then you have Marineford, where it took WB several Quakes to partially destroy the main building, and he came to splitting the island in half at the most. Is he island level then?

Then you have WB failing to sink Marineford, and Moriah splitting Thriller Bark in half with one punch. Moriah did in one punch what it took WB extreme anger and several hits to do. But I'm sure you won't say Moriah, even with using Asgard, is stronger than Whitebeard would you?
 

VongolaX

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None of this disproves what I'm saying. Buggy being so weak that he needs the Government to be misled to include causes the credibility of the Shichibukai as a rank to be lessened. Mihawk being the strongest swordsman in the One Piece world also puts a hamper on the rank due to how high in the extremes his power is on their scale. It's a broken rank.
Warlord is a generalization, of course they're broken down tiers within the group but as a whole the government dogs have capabilities and feats to be placed above officers ranked in the navy.

There not going to let any pirate be a Warlord otherwise we would see the likes of Brownbird inside the organization.

Buggy is just a misconception, a misunderstanding of being in that group.

They said buggy did xyz, making them to believe he is within that level.

So when being said about "warlord level," it is referred to the pre timeskip credited individuals.

Not false hype buggy that gained credit for yelling at Yonkou Shanks.

The only argument you can make is the strength of the impel level 6 crew members that follow is his orders.

That's the only thing he will be dignified for.

Same was Vice-Admirals. The fact that Garp was offered promotions to Admiral and declined and remained Vice-Admiral also puts a hamper in by causing a flux. There are no "Oh he's an exception", he's part of the rank. If you think a Vice-Admiral is below a Shichibukai, then you're saying Buggy>Garp, Buggy>Vergo, Buggy>Smoker. The fact that you have some Shichibukai who are weaker than some VAs, and vice-versa, shows the ranks flux in comparison with each other, and with others, as you can have some Shichibukai like Moriah weaker than a rookie like Luffy, but you have Kuma, Doflamingo, Mihawk and Hancock who are stronger than Luffy as he was at that time, maybe even now. You can't say "He's a VA, so he'll be weaker than so and so" because the people in the rank are on too vast distances from each other, causing big extremes. These particular ranks simply can't hold enough merit.

See you're not listening....

Yes they're exception of those rank, which Garp in specific doesn't abide by.

He turned down the promotions and ranks when ever he pleased, but does that mean he follows the commands like any other Vice Admiral?

Can all Vice admirals turn down promotions?

Can all Vice Admirals give commands to all Admirals?

Is Rogers only on Vice Admiral now?

Can all Vice admirals even become higher up in the navy while having his direct son being the most wanted man in the world?

The answer is simply "No."

Garp is the exceptions, otherwise the questions asked up there would get Garp killed or kicked out of the military.

What Vice admiral gives Admiral Kuzan orders in water 7?

Going back, to the warlords being above VA...

Yes, they simply are because there are feats and requirement for that (excluding Buggy for obvious reasons)

Even Moria himself can beat vice admirals too, he is definitely the weakest of the pre timeskip warlords but he's still above Vice admirals (except for garp).

Luffy went all out in that fight against moria, and 2nd gear+3rd is above most vice admirals out there.

As for towns and islands, not all towns and islands are the same size. Let's say a town has five houses, and Ace destroys them with one Hiken. What if he goes to another town that has ten houses and can't take them all out in one blow. The former, by your standards, suggests he is town level, and the latter doesn't. What you have there is a contradiction. Now let's say the former town is all experienced Haki users who maul Ace, but then he goes to the latter town and it's all fodder and he burns it down with no trouble. See how the smaller town can give more trouble than a bigger town, once again causing too much flux.
Well first off, Ace doesn't lose to all Haki users because there are some weak ones like Tashigi that would get one shot. Even if they are over a twenty of them.

When I say "island buster," it means in one attack they can destroy a whole island (durable inanimate object) in one blow.

There are people who are durable enough to stop an island busting attack, but the people are not the island nor are they the town.

That is why Shakky said Kidd only got a higher bounty for harming civilians, not busting towns. There is a difference and I thought even you would be able to decipher the two terms.

Let's say WB went to an island, let's say, the size of half of Bannaro, and sinks it with ease using one Quake or air tilt. Then you have Marineford, where it took WB several Quakes to partially destroy the main building, and he came to splitting the island in half at the most. Is he island level then?
We all know that his physical condition (age and injury) is what deter him for fulfilling his hype, and the sea stone walls were a big factor for the used of negate his devil fruit power.

Otherwise his title still stands as an earth buster, even Sengoku is aware of what his potentials are capable of doing.

It's unfortunate that Whitebeards as a pirate has sense, otherwise every pirate, marine, and himself included would of dead draining in the marineford war. Considering that more than half of them were devil fruit users who couldn't fly...

Then you have WB failing to sink Marineford, and Moriah splitting Thriller Bark in half with one punch. Moriah did in one punch what it took WB extreme anger and several hits to do. But I'm sure you won't say Moriah, even with using Asgard, is stronger than Whitebeard would you?
Read above...

Whitebeard is a world buster
 

Uzumaki Macho

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Even Moria himself can beat vice admirals too, he is definitely the weakest of the pre timeskip warlords but he's still above Vice admirals (except for garp).
Moria definitely cannot beat Vergo, Momonga, Smoker, Onigumo, Tsuru, and Dalmation. I am pretty sure that Croc when we was a Warlord could not beat some of the VAs mentioned above too. Buggy probably cant even beat Maynard. Warlord Blackbeard cant beat Vergo since a Haki beast is Warlord BB's worst nightmare. I don't think Jinbe could beat the strongest VA, which is probably Momonga. Hancock vs Momonga is debatable. Kuma without a brain probably cant either. Mihawk, Doflamingo, and Kuma(before the surgery) are the only Shichibukai that could definitely beat all VAs(with the exception of Garp of course). I think Law can too but that could be debatable imo.
 

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Moria definitely cannot beat Vergo, Momonga, Smoker, Onigumo, Tsuru, and Dalmation. I am pretty sure that Croc when we was a Warlord could not beat some of the VAs mentioned above too. Buggy probably cant even beat Maynard. Warlord Blackbeard cant beat Vergo since a Haki beast is Warlord BB's worst nightmare. I don't think Jinbe could beat the strongest VA, which is probably Momonga. Hancock vs Momonga is debatable. Kuma without a brain probably cant either. Mihawk, Doflamingo, and Kuma(before the surgery) are the only Shichibukai that could definitely beat all VAs(with the exception of Garp of course). I think Law can too but that could be debatable imo.
Never said Buggy can beat any vice admiral, this is pre timeskip Warlord I'm talking about here.

I believe that Moria and Jinbei can beat all vice admirals with the exception of Garp.

Crocodile without question can beat an vice admiral, if he can fight that on the level of Jozu...
What vice admiral is beating crocodile?
 
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Uzumaki Macho

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Never said Buggy can beat any vice admiral, this is pre timeskip Warlord I'm talking about here.

I believe that Moria and Jinbei can beat all vice admirals with the exception of Garp.

Crocodile without question can beat an vice admiral, if he can fight that on the level of Jozu...
What vice admiral is beating crocodile?
Wtf is this sht? Moria stands no chance against Vergo, let alone Momonga. Jinbe vs Vergo is debatable. No one on Jozu's level would get beaten by Pre-gears Luffy no matter how much plot. Croc did absolutely nothing to Jozu.
 

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Wtf is this sht? Moria stands no chance against Vergo, let alone Momonga. Jinbe vs Vergo is debatable. No one on Jozu's level would get beaten by Pre-gears Luffy no matter how much plot. Croc did absolutely nothing to Jozu.
So doflamingo with PX didn't kill Moria, but Vergo can?

Look, Moria has the devil fruit that would beat Vergo.

Especially when taking Vergo's strength comes in handy by shadow stealing, and once daylight comes no amount of Haki is going to save you.

Crocodile would beat Vergo, that's not up for debate.

If Jozu did a full scale diamond Haki blitz like he did to crocodile, towards a full body Haki Vergo.....

Vergo would be sent flying across punk hazard to the middle of the sea.

Crocodile has been fighting Haki users way out Vergo's league, and that much is a fact.

Doflamingo doesn't offer team up with fodders, or people who are on his subordinate's level.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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So doflamingo with PX didn't kill Moria, but Vergo can?

1.Moria fled. This isn't if Vergo can kill Moria, but if he can beat him.

Look, Moria has the devil fruit that would beat Vergo.

Especially when taking Vergo's strength comes in handy by shadow stealing, and once daylight comes no amount of Haki is going to save you.

2.Moria wont be able to restrain him and steal his shadow.

Crocodile would beat Vergo, that's not up for debate.

3.Actually, it is.

If Jozu did a full scale diamond Haki blitz like he did to crocodile, towards a full body Haki Vergo.....

4.You think Croc is more durable than Vergo?

Vergo would be sent flying across punk hazard to the middle of the sea.

5.I think you mean Croc.

Crocodile has been fighting Haki users way out Vergo's league, and that much is a fact.

6.Luffy fought against Aokiji, so I guess he solos Sabo.

Doflamingo doesn't offer team up with fodders, or people who are on his subordinate's level.

7.Do you have any proof that he wouldn't team up with people below him in strength?
Put my answers in the quote
 

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LOL Wait, you think he can't? Oh my God xD
No, he can't throw Oz or shatter his bones.

He doesn't have the physical strength for that.

Just because some has a strong armors Haki, doesn't mean he is physically strong to one arm a giant.

Armors Haki=/=physical strength

Beating up a logia who are known for weak bodies, doesn't mean you can crush mountains with your bare hand.
 

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No, he can't throw Oz or shatter his bones.

He doesn't have the physical strength for that.

Just because some has a strong armors Haki, doesn't mean he is physically strong to one arm a giant.

Armors Haki=/=physical strength

Beating up a logia who are known for weak bodies, doesn't mean you can crush mountains with your bare hand.
Yeah, except Luffy couldn't toss around Oz like that either. You have to realize Nightmare Luffy equals Luffy+the power of a hundred shadows.

Luffy can't be>Luffy+the power of a hundred shadows, that math doesn't add up.
Nightmare Luffy>Luffy.

Moriah lost to Gear 3+Gear 2 Luffy, who is weaker than N. Luffy and Vergo, so Vergo would beat him too. Superior speed plus his monstrous hits would be too much for Moriah.

It doesn't matter if you think Nightmare Luffy<Normal Luffy because Vergo is still stronger than pre-skip Luffy anyways.
 
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