Sage Mode Naruto vs Ei

[lanakui8]

Why exactly do you think Naruto can't use Chou Oodama Rasengan during Pain Arc? Jiraiya with imperfect sage mode did and Naruto did so in his mind IIRC when he used Chou Oodama Rasengan barrage. Sorry my knowledge on Naruto is pretty bad, I'm just asking questions for clarifications, not trying to start an argument or debate.

Naruto had only displayed oodama rasengan during the pain arc. Donʻt see why jiraiya performing the tech means anything, that just shows jiraiya could use a bigger rasengan than naruto could.

I'd rank Pain arc SM Naruto at mid-high kage level while War arc SM Naruto at high kage level, agree?

depends on what mid-high kage level and high kage level means

I'd say V1 Ay is faster than V1 3rd Raikage based on Kimimaro in CS2 being slower but more durable. More durable body means more mass which means less speed for a given amount of energy. Assuming V1 lightning armour gives same amount of kinetic energy. Kinetic energy = 0.5*m*v^2 and if both Raikages get the same amount but 3rd has more mass, his speed will be less.

I donʻt understand what Kimiʻs Cs2 being slower but more durable has to do with V1 Ei being faster? Kimimaroʻs Cs2 made him slower not because it made him more durable, but because his body wasnʻt used to the full transformation. Sasukeʻs Cs2 transformation doesnʻt decrease his speed, if anything sasukeʻs speed increases.

Also, being more durable =/= being heavier. Titanium both lighter and more durable than lead.

 

[KidGamer65]

Barely did shit to him my ass, that's one of the most damaging instances we have seen to an Edo since Haku. Not only that, but there is absolutely no evidence that the cast net is stronger then Chidori, your simply saying it is for the sake of your argument, circular reasoning.

-Naruto stated it did nothing.

-He is only shown with surface scratches.

-He gets up a second after getting hit.

Yet we have this guy over here, spouting this bullshit about how it was one of the most damaging instances we've seen for an Edo tensei Zombie....Lol, get that shit out of here. Statements and showings disagree with you. Ay with his armor was pierced by Chidori, and his father took FRS. Its not rocket science to figure out which one is more durable.

Ay is much less durable than his father, and Chidori only left a flesh wound, yet Cast Net pretty much achieved the same thing if not worse when it hit his father, meaning combined Cast Net>>Chidori.

3rd Raikage V1 > V1 Ei. 3rd Raikage V1 >= V2 Ei.

Another baseless claim.

You seem to not understand that I am talking about V2 Ei, who pours much more chakra into his armour.

You seem not to be able to provide evidence it lets him survive FRS, or even SM Oodama Rasengan.

Based on the plethora of examples I have already shown. Oodama best feat was taking out a fodder, even base Ei could survive it. SM Oodama Rasnegan also gets tanked with V2 armour.

Lol, neg worthy, sig worthy, trollish post right here. Ay with his armor couldn't even tank Chidori. Saying he tanks something much stronger than it is completely fucking retarded to say the least.

He was in V2 against Minato, what do you not understand? Also, Minato spawned right next to him and kicked him away. Ei was planning to get Minato the second he spawned somewhere else, so he COULD have maneuvered around.

Minato didn't kick Ay, he appeared above him and tried to kill him, and the rest is irrelevant as that was Ay before using Shunshin, not during it or after it.

If we are talking about V2 then there is no argument here. V2 Ei straight up blitzes SM Naruto, no way in hell is Naruto going to have time to make a clone, let alone make a clone, jump away, make an SM Oodama rasengan and attack all in the time span that Ei comes, your being absolutely ridiculous. THE MOST NARUTO CAN DO AGAINST A V2 EI IS BLOCK. This is confirmed fact by the fact that the most he was able to do against base Madara was block. And quiet honestly, I am even being generous in that aspect, he should not even be capable of blocking considering V2 Ei is faster then Madara.

All he needs to do is feint Ay out with his clone and slam Rasengan into his chest. Forget about jumping away, and all that shit.

The distance being farther apart here, Naruto knowing about Ay's speed, and Ay starting in V1 pretty much shits all over your comparison. I have zero reason to believe Naruto can't make a clone.

Not really, your just ignoring the evidence.

There is no evidence to ignore. Its just Ay wank.

Show me where Naruto made the contract with the two toad sages. Ei blitzes the two fronts before they can even speak, heck, he blitzes Naruto before he can even summon them.

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The rest is unsubstantiated, and has been replied to.

If its V2 Ei, Naruto is not even making clones.

Considering Naruto reacts faster than KCM Naruto, and KCM Naruto was able to react? Uh, yes, Naruto makes a clone, and feints him out.

You said Naruto could use his clone as a shield, Ei knocks the clone into Naruto in that case. If a clone gets knocked into Naruto, his feet will lift off the ground, thus, sent flying.

There is a visual example that shows this makes no sense.

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If Ay hits Naruto's clone towards Naruto himself, they'll go flying towards the ground or flying backwards. Not upwards.

Humans can run 100m in 9 seconds if we where to round up, 30m is less then 1/3 of that but we will say its 1/3 for your sake. Which means that a human (granted the fastest human in the world) can run 30m in at most, 5 seconds, considering he needs to start with momentum (if he starts with momentum, its 3). Fodders in Naruto can jump on high tree twigs and casually jump from tree to tree,a fodder can cover that distance in like 3 seconds. Ei is by no means a fodder, even in base he could cover that distance in a single Shunshin, let alone V1 and V2.

Being able to cover that distance in a short amount of time isn't evidence that Naruto can't react. So you pretty much wasted your time typing this. Most Ninja can cross 30m in one Shunshin, does that mean that Naruto can't react to any of them? Uh, no.

You do realize that his lightning chop is exactly like Chidori? If he rams into someone with his hand in the same position as a Chidori, it will be piercing damage, just like Chidori. What has Naruto blocked? Are you seriously telling me that SM Naruto can tank a lightning chop? The same chop that breaks through and/or cracks Susanoo? ROFL. Naruto's hands get cut wether you like it or not.

That tunnel was not made by the Yak genius, there are many tunnels like that in that location, Jiraiya retreated there later.

Lol, I've officially stopped taking you seriously.

This tunnel

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Is not the same as this tunnel.

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That pathway only leads to those tunnels. That pathway was created by the Yak. Now, unless you think that Jiraiya can travel that deep in the crater that Ay made, then once again, gtfo with this nonsense.


So Naruto should be able to block Ay's hits, and the only reason he broke through Susanoo is because he cracked it first with Liger Bomb, which is his strongest jutsu.

Sure it does, if Ei had smashed the ground with his own two hands, the crater would have been much much larger.

Liger Bomb is a power slam. Power slams work by slamming the target into the ground, so what the crater would have looked like had Ay slammed his own two hands into the ground is irrelevant as THAT IS HOW LIGER BOMB WORKS. He'll be slamming SM Naruto no matter what, so why you are hung up on this nonsense is beyond me.

The more someone travels with speed, the more momentum one has. And wrong, because Susanoo took the damage, in other words, Ei was not able to smash as far as he wanted, because Susanoo was in the way.

In the way? The target of all that damage IS Susanoo. Do you even know how a power slam works? Ay lifts the target up and smashes it into the ground.

Shunshin, hit one guy, Shunshin, hit the other guy in rapid succession. Madara did it, I don't understand what you can't understand.

Madara dashed past them both in one movement. So no, he didn't do it.

This also happened in the war arc, when the Jubi was making it rain with Mokuton spikes.

He had a limit on his FRS, not a clone limit.

Nope, he dodges again. Minato teleported right behind him and pushed him away. He later says that he is going to catch Minato the second he teleports elsewhere, which would be impossible if he stopped and then went again.

Minato didn't push him, he simply appeared above him and was going to stab him, and Ay couldn't evade. Ay ran toward Minato, and was going to Shunshin to where he reappeared. Ay didn't use Shunshin a second time when he was fighting Minato, so that example is moot as well.

Using MS Sasuke as an example....wow. Sasuke outpaced said KCM Naruto once he got EMS, and they reacted and countered Juubito AT THE EXACT SAME TIME. [/FONT]

On foot, with no Shunshin. Since when was Naruto's foot speed w/o Shunshin anything impressive? And that's because of Sasuke's upgraded pre cog.

 

[lanakui8]

I ignored your argument after you said Han can replicate all Ays feats on a higher scale than he can all because of one inconclusive feat he showed. That is ridiculous.

Well then youʻve conceded the argument and therefore you canʻt assert that V1 Ei hits harder than Han, let alone V1 Ei hits WAAAAY harder than Han.

Next, you canʻt just assert the feat is inconclusive. By that logic, I could just go around and say any feat that I donʻt like is ʻinconclusiveʻ and then just ignore it. And if you do that, then youʻre pretty much saying "I donʻt care whatʻs true, I just care what I want to believe is true" which outs you as 100% biased.

Finally, what are 1 tailed Hanʻs other feats? NOTHING! If 1 tailed Han doesnʻt have any other feats, then we only have 1 feat to gauge him with, and therefore you have to use that feat.

Stop being biased, if you want other people to take you seriously, you canʻt just go around saying "I donʻt like this, I donʻt want this to be true, so Iʻll just ignore it". If all the evidence says Han hits harder than Ei, then Han hits harder than Ei.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

The only thing I am unsure of is Naruto's ability to constantly evade Ei and successfully retaliate. He was able to evade Ei in KCM, and his sensing in Sage Mode is all the greater. But, if he's aware of it doesn't mean he is able to defend against or block it if he doesn't have the speed too.

If he's capable of avoiding Ei on several occasions to form one of the massive fuuton rasenshurikens - I give him the victory. If not, I see him just being hounded constantly and forced to play the defensive until his chakra wears out.

 

[LuckyMan]

Well then youʻve conceded the argument and therefore you canʻt assert that V1 Ei hits harder than Han, let alone V1 Ei hits WAAAAY harder than Han.

Except the feats show otherwise.

Next, you canʻt just assert the feat is inconclusive. By that logic, I could just go around and say any feat that I donʻt like is ʻinconclusiveʻ and then just ignore it. And if you do that, then youʻre pretty much saying "I donʻt care whatʻs true, I just care what I want to believe is true" which outs you as 100% biased.

The feat is inconclusive. Han got a clean hit, Ay did not. "Flying through the earth" is just an exaggeration on your part and the same effects were created when Ay punched Naruto.

Finally, what are 1 tailed Hanʻs other feats? NOTHING! If 1 tailed Han doesnʻt have any other feats, then we only have 1 feat to gauge him with, and therefore you have to use that feat.

The circumstances were different. Han gained momentum through speed and landed a clean hit and Ay had zero momentum and his attack was guarded. Both of their attacks created the same effect, it sent Naruto flying and he "went through the earth" or whatever you call it.

Stop being biased, if you want other people to take you seriously, you canʻt just go around saying "I donʻt like this, I donʻt want this to be true, so Iʻll just ignore it". If all the evidence says Han hits harder than Ei, then Han hits harder than Ei.

All your evidence is just one inconclusive feat and the feats I linked of Ay (which you completely ignored) counter your entire argument. I don't care if you call me bias or take me seriously when you post things like that. You don't have enough evidence to support your claim and the example you gave was bad.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Sennin Mode Naruto takes this.

- He can't completely evade V2 Ay's Shunshin, but he can react to it. Giving him enough time to duck or dodge. Kage Bunshin also help in making sure that Naruto doesn't get hit.

- Summonings can keep Ay preoccupied and wear him down, as a Fully Charge Raiton Cloak is draining for him. Their DC can hurt Ay, as well as Hiro's jumping ability giving Naruto another counter to Ay's Full Speed.

- FRS would vaporize Ay, he's nowhere near as durable as his father. Fuuton also has the natural advantage over Raiton.

- Higher level's of Rasengan would still do serious damage to Ay as well.

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[lanakui8]

Except the feats show otherwise.

What feats show otherwise?

The feat is inconclusive. Han got a clean hit, Ay did not. "Flying through the earth" is just an exaggeration on your part and the same effects were created when Ay punched Naruto.

Han didnʻt get a clean hit on Bee, Han got a clean hit on Naruto, therefore bee catching a flying naruto is the equivalent of Bee catching Hanʻs hit.

Flying through the earth is absolutely not an exaggeration on my part, Bee ended up creating a trench from his journey through the ground. The skids that Naruto creates from eiʻs punches donʻt even do any visible damage to the earth.

The circumstances were different. Han gained momentum through speed and landed a clean hit and Ay had zero momentum and his attack was guarded. Both of their attacks created the same effect, it sent Naruto flying and he "went through the earth" or whatever you call it.

Momentum gained is completely irrelevant to the validity of Narutoʻs statement "if I take a clean hit, Iʻm screwed". Han could have been thrown by PS and kicked Naruto in the face, it doesnʻt matter since naruto coming out of that hitt without any noticeable injuries conclusively disproves that translation.

All your evidence is just one inconclusive feat and the feats I linked of Ay (which you completely ignored) counter your entire argument. I don't care if you call me bias or take me seriously when you post things like that. You don't have enough evidence to support your claim and the example you gave was bad.

Except youʻve given zero reasoning for why itʻs an inconclusive feat, which brings us straight back to the point where I can just claim any feat that I donʻt like in the manga is ʻinconclusiveʻ and therefore just ignore it. I didnʻt ignore any of Eiʻs feats, if I didnʻt address them itʻs because they donʻt matter since you provide no reasoning as to why that feat makes Eiʻs hit TIERS above 1 tailed Hanʻs hit. Not only that, but your arguments are not about showing the feat is inconclusive, your arguments only tried to show that the comparison Iʻve made via the feat is inconclusive. However, that feat is 1 tailed Hanʻs only feat, so you have to take that feat into consideration in your argument. Do you believe V1 Ei could have done the same thing with the momentum-less punches he threw at naruto? If not, then obviously your translation canʻt be true.

Not only that, but in this post youʻve given me another gem that reflects your utter biased when it comes to this topic as youʻve now tried to claim that Naruto skidding a few meters on the surface of the ground here:

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is comparable to what happened to 1 tailed Bee here:

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And then thereʻs the fact that every single time you argue you completely ignore the fact that you arenʻt just argument that V1 Ei > 1 tailed Hanʻs hit. Youʻre arguing that V1 Eiʻs casual punch >>>>>> 1 tailed Hanʻs steampowered flying kick, since thatʻs the only way the translation you want to be true can be true. So do you believe that? and if so, what evidence do you have to support that assertion?

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

-Naruto stated it did nothing.

-He is only shown with surface scratches.

-He gets up a second after getting hit.

Yet we have this guy over here, spouting this bullshit about how it was one of the most damaging instances we've seen for an Edo tensei Zombie....Lol, get that shit out of here. Statements and showings disagree with you. Ay with his armor was pierced by Chidori, and his father took FRS. Its not rocket science to figure out which one is more durable.

Ay is much less durable than his father, and Chidori only left a flesh wound, yet Cast Net pretty much achieved the same thing if not worse when it hit his father, meaning combined Cast Net>>Chidori.

Did nothing as in could not help seal the Raikage, and yeah, that's what Edo regen does for you. Ei also survived the teleportation that only his father could use, with absolute ease, which implies that his skin is nearly as hard. At the very least, V2 puts Ei's durability just under his fathers. The cast net left much much more then just a flesh wound, if he was alive, that would have made him unable to fight.

You seem not to be able to provide evidence it lets him survive FRS, or even SM Oodama Rasengan.

Its not that I did not provide evidence, its that your ignoring it.

Lol, neg worthy, sig worthy, trollish post right here. Ay with his armor couldn't even tank Chidori. Saying he tanks something much stronger than it is completely fucking retarded to say the least.

Really? Mind showing me a good feat of Oodama rasengans?

Minato didn't kick Ay, he appeared above him and tried to kill him, and the rest is irrelevant as that was Ay before using Shunshin, not during it or after it.

LOL yes, Ei moved forward in a humping position. Facepalm worthy.

All he needs to do is feint Ay out with his clone and slam Rasengan into his chest. Forget about jumping away, and all that shit.

Ei is not going to go for the clone if he sees Naruto make it right in front of his eyes.

The distance being farther apart here, Naruto knowing about Ay's speed, and Ay starting in V1 pretty much shits all over your comparison. I have zero reason to believe Naruto can't make a clone.

He covers that within a second with V1 as well.

There is no evidence to ignore. Its just Ay wank.

More so SM Naruto wank on your part.

Considering Naruto reacts faster than KCM Naruto, and KCM Naruto was able to react? Uh, yes, Naruto makes a clone, and feints him out.

KCM Naruto has the speed to dodge, Naruto's SM speed pales in comparison to his KCM speed, as proven by the fact that the most he could do against Madara is block. Whatever else you say here is irrelevant, as we have clear feats of Madara blitzing Naruto.

There is a visual example that shows this makes no sense.

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If Ay hits Naruto's clone towards Naruto himself, they'll go flying towards the ground or flying backwards. Not upwards.

Who the hell said anything about flying upwards?

Being able to cover that distance in a short amount of time isn't evidence that Naruto can't react. So you pretty much wasted your time typing this. Most Ninja can cross 30m in one Shunshin, does that mean that Naruto can't react to any of them? Uh, no.

Ei covers it before Naruto has time to do anything bar blocking or dodging, if Ei notices that Naruto is capable of dodging V1 speed, he will go V2 speed, at which point its GG.

Lol, I've officially stopped taking you seriously.

This tunnel

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Is not the same as this tunnel.

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My my aren't you ignorant, or at least blinded by your bias.

THERE ARE LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME THREE BROKEN PIPES ON TOP OF BOTH HOLES, how you do not notice this is beyond me. Just to put insult to injury, as if you have not embarrassed yourself enough, we see the same hole in the same position and everything

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.

So Naruto should be able to block Ay's hits, and the only reason he broke through Susanoo is because he cracked it first with Liger Bomb, which is his strongest jutsu.

lol what? So a small chip at the too of the Ribcage, affected the durability of the Susanoo all around? Keep dreaming, Ei has also cracked Madaras Susanoo in two different occasions. So no, Narutos hands are coming clean off after a chop.

Liger Bomb is a power slam. Power slams work by slamming the target into the ground, so what the crater would have looked like had Ay slammed his own two hands into the ground is irrelevant as THAT IS HOW LIGER BOMB WORKS. He'll be slamming SM Naruto no matter what, so why you are hung up on this nonsense is beyond me.

If he slammed Sasuke into the ground, he would have had more momentum. If he uses liger bomb on Naruto (I don't see why he would), Naruto's head falls off.

In the way? The target of all that damage IS Susanoo. Do you even know how a power slam works? Ay lifts the target up and smashes it into the ground.

Momentum

Madara dashed past them both in one movement. So no, he didn't do it.

Its called a Shunshin.

He had a limit on his FRS, not a clone limit.

He thre exactly 3 FRS and made exactly 2 clones before running out, that's his limit of sage chakra usage.

Minato didn't push him, he simply appeared above him and was going to stab him, and Ay couldn't evade. Ay ran toward Minato, and was going to Shunshin to where he reappeared. Ay didn't use Shunshin a second time when he was fighting Minato, so that example is moot as well.

Wrong. Ei charged, Minato teleported above him and just as when he was about to stab, the tentacle came down and Minato used Ei as Levrage to jump up and cut the tentacle (and plant the tag), Ei was sent flying forwards and quickly regained balance and jumped back. This is quiet literally what happened.

On foot, with no Shunshin. Since when was Naruto's foot speed w/o Shunshin anything impressive? And that's because of Sasuke's upgraded pre cog.

It seems you only looked at the first panel, because in the bottom panels its quiet literally shown Sasuke using Shunshin to Sakura, and then Naruto following shortly after. And no, Precog does not give enhanced Shunshin, its because he got faster.

 

[LuckyMan]

What feats show otherwise?

I don't know, maybe putting a hole through Juugo then KO'ing him with one clean attack, despite his CSM2 armor. Maybe the power of his attacks tearing off Suigetsu's arms, or maybe, just maybe snapping rib-cage Susanoo.

Han didnʻt get a clean hit on Bee, Han got a clean hit on Naruto, therefore bee catching a flying naruto is the equivalent of Bee catching Hanʻs hit. Flying through the earth is absolutely not an exaggeration on my part, Bee ended up creating a trench from his journey through the ground. The skids that Naruto creates from eiʻs punches donʻt even do any visible damage to the earth.

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Momentum gained is completely irrelevant to the validity of Narutoʻs statement "if I take a clean hit, Iʻm screwed". Han could have been thrown by PS and kicked Naruto in the face, it doesnʻt matter since naruto coming out of that hitt without any noticeable injuries conclusively disproves that translation.

Momentum will increase the power of ones attack. He only had no noticeable injuries because he guarded against the attack and Ay was not even trying to kill him. If Ay was gong for the kill and used as much power as he did to snap Susanoo Naruto would be finished, unless you believe hes more durable than rib-cage Susanoo.

Except youʻve given zero reasoning for why itʻs an inconclusive feat, which brings us straight back to the point where I can just claim any feat that I donʻt like in the manga is ʻinconclusiveʻ and therefore just ignore it. I didnʻt ignore any of Eiʻs feats, if I didnʻt address them itʻs because they donʻt matter since you provide no reasoning as to why that feat makes Eiʻs hit TIERS above 1 tailed Hanʻs hit. Not only that, but your arguments are not about showing the feat is inconclusive, your arguments only tried to show that the comparison Iʻve made via the feat is inconclusive. However, that feat is 1 tailed Hanʻs only feat, so you have to take that feat into consideration in your argument. Do you believe V1 Ei could have done the same thing with the momentum-less punches he threw at naruto? If not, then obviously your translation canʻt be true.

Ay was not trying to kill Naruto and his punches are more powerful than what he used versus Naruto and Bee. If he was going for the kill then absolutely, he can replicate what Han did plus more.

And then thereʻs the fact that every single time you argue you completely ignore the fact that you arenʻt just argument that V1 Ei > 1 tailed Hanʻs hit. Youʻre arguing that V1 Eiʻs casual punch >>>>>> 1 tailed Hanʻs steampowered flying kick, since thatʻs the only way the translation you want to be true can be true. So do you believe that? and if so, what evidence do you have to support that assertion?

In the images I linked his casual punch did the same thing Hans did despite Naruto blocking it and despite him not going for the kill and holding back. Thats evidence that a serious V1 Ay who uses full power is stronger than Han.

 

[InfamousB]

Ay shits, and I repeat, "shits" on SM Naruto Lol Naruto is not getting past anybody w/o the help of the series, and his "MVP" Kurama.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Naruto low difficulty.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Ay blitzes nardo arse before he says rame - dead

 

[BenjerminGaye]

For some reason I feel as if that scan saying sm sensing is superior is being greatly taken out of context. After all he dosent say what it's superior to. For all we know he's talking about base.

 

[lanakui8]

I don't know, maybe putting a hole through Juugo then KO'ing him with one clean attack, despite his CSM2 armor. Maybe the power of his attacks tearing off Suigetsu's arms, or maybe, just maybe snapping rib-cage Susanoo.

Um so what? What in the world implies 1 tailed Han wouldnʻt do that as well? Is it the fact that base bee can stop Eiʻs hits while he canʻt stop 1 tailed hanʻs?

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This is basically you flat out conceding the argument.

Youʻve been shown via explicit manga panels that THIS is what V1 Eiʻs punch does to the ground:

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and youʻve been shown via explicit manga panels that THIS is what 1 tailed Hanʻs kick does to the ground:

Spoiler

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So youʻve shown that you KNOW the manga shows Hanʻs kick creating a trench in the ground while Eiʻs punch doesnʻt even leave a mark which is why you ignore the manga and bring up the animeʻs rendition where they downplay Hanʻs hit and up play Eiʻs hit. Unless you want to claim Anime > Manga, no Hanʻs hit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V1 Eiʻs punch.

Then thereʻs the fact that you completely ignored the fact that itʻs not KCM Naruto blocking hanʻs hit, itʻs 1 tailed Bee catching KCM Naruto and creating that trench, the same bee who overpowers V2 Ei and catches V1 Eiʻs hits without budging.

Momentum will increase the power of ones attack. He only had no noticeable injuries because he guarded against the attack and Ay was not even trying to kill him. If Ay was gong for the kill and used as much power as he did to snap Susanoo Naruto would be finished, unless you believe hes more durable than rib-cage Susanoo.

Thatʻs completely and I repeat COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO OUR ARGUMENT.

Your argument: Narutoʻs statement "if i take a clean hit, Iʻm screwed" is true.
My argument: Narutoʻs statement "if i take a clean hit, Iʻm screwed" is false.

Hanʻs momentum has absolutely nothing to do with that argument, if Han, momentum, w/ help, whatever, hit Naruto harder than V1 Ei hit naruto, then your statement is false.
Ei holding back on naruto or not is irrelevant as well since Naruto made that statement after taking the first punch from Ei.

Ay was not trying to kill Naruto and his punches are more powerful than what he used versus Naruto and Bee. If he was going for the kill then absolutely, he can replicate what Han did plus more.

Once again, completely and utterly irrelevant to our argument.

However, what in the world do you base the bolded on? What impact feat has Ei done that exceeds 1 tailed Hanʻs feat of hitting KCM Naruto so hard, bee creates a trench as a result of just trying to stop narutoʻs momentum?

In the images I linked his casual punch did the same thing Hans did despite Naruto blocking it and despite him not going for the kill and holding back. Thats evidence that a serious V1 Ay who uses full power is stronger than Han.

Nope, the links youʻve given are evidence that youʻve pretty much conceded the argument since youʻve resorted to ignoring what happens in the manga since you know it would disprove your argument.

Iʻll even highlight what Hanʻs kick did for you since you are so utterly adamant and biased against 1 tailed Hanʻs feat:

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The red line is the ground level, the blue outline is the huge chunk of earth that got dredged up from Bee traveling through the ground with such force.

Now what do we see from Naruto after he gets hit by V1 Ei?
:

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nothing, absolutely nothing except a small cloud of dust.

The same exact thing happens when Naruto gets punched again:

Spoiler

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So the evidence is not conclusive, itʻs not convincing, itʻs COMPELLING. There is no, absolutely no logical way you can argue that Narutoʻs statement about V1 Eiʻs punches can be true. Not when he can take kicks that create trenches while V1 Eiʻs hits donʻt even do noticeable damage to the ground.

It doesnʻt matter if Ei breaks ribcage susanoo with his strength or punches through CS2 juugo, if Hanʻs hits are far stronger than eiʻs hits, then Han can break ribcage susnaoo and kick through CS2 juugo as well. Simply listing a resume of a character is meaningless in a comparison, in a comparison you COMPARE characters.

Oh yeah, you also once again (not surprising) completely ignored the fact that you have a burden of proof to show that V1 Eiʻs non-killer intent punch >>>> 1 tailed Hanʻs momentum jump kick, since Naruto barely took any damage from the kick yet you believe narutoʻs statement about him getting screwed by 1 clean hit from Ei is true.

 

[genii96]

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The only things that KCM grants are larger reserves,faster Shunshin, and the ability to sense negative emotions.
SM Naruto has some pretty amazing Shunshin feats as well

he is a better sensor,kcm naruto dosent even sense danger,he just senses negative emotions.
Base madara smacked sm naruto
v1 and v2 ay are faster,where was his superior reflexes there?

Like i said,he only went sm after kcm expired

 

[KidGamer65]

Did nothing as in could not help seal the Raikage, and yeah, that's what Edo regen does for you.

Did nothing= Did nothing. The only thing he was shown regenerating from was surface scratches. FRS was shown not doing shit to him. Planetary Rasengan hit Mu, and it dealt him so much damage that he couldn't regenerate properly or fast enough, that is real damage. Raikage got hit by FRS, and got up a second later.

But hey, lets deny manga canon why don't we? Its not like that is a new course of action for you.

Ei also survived the teleportation that only his father could use, with absolute ease, which implies that his skin is nearly as hard. At the very least, V2 puts Ei's durability just under his fathers. The cast net left much much more then just a flesh wound, if he was alive, that would have made him unable to fight.

Lol, what the hell? More shitty logic I see.

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, I guess they are equal in durability. Ay surviving means that his skin was hard enough. I don't know why this is still a debate when the manga shows Ay with his armor was pierced by Chidori, while the 3rd tanked a stronger attack.

They were barely cutting into his skin.

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Either way, that's not much more than what Chidori did to Ay, so no, they are nowhere near equals when it comes to durability, unless you think Chidori>FRS. Lol

Its not that I did not provide evidence, its that your ignoring it.

I'm replying to everything you are posting. You just don't have evidence.

Really? Mind showing me a good feat of Oodama rasengans?

Maybe you should stop being daft and use common sense.

Chidori=Rasengan, and it hurt Ay with his armor on. Oodama Rasengan is a level above Chidori, and another level above that when used with Senjutsu. Ay couldn't tank a weaker attack with his armor, saying he can tank a stronger one is completely idiotic. Grounds for you not to be taken seriously.

LOL yes, Ei moved forward in a humping position. Facepalm worthy.

No, he was moving forward and Minato teleported above him. Can't read the manga? I figured.

Ei is not going to go for the clone if he sees Naruto make it right in front of his eyes.

Its not a matter of whether he goes for the clone. Naruto feints him out, meaning he ends up hitting the clone anyway. Clearly you don't know what a feint is based on this reply.

He covers that within a second with V1 as well.

Already replied to this horeshit logic. Ay being able to cover this distance quickly doesn't mean Naruto can't react. Especially since he already reacted to someone as fast as V1 Ay.

More so SM Naruto wank on your part.

Of course the guy wanking the shit out of Ay would say that.

KCM Naruto has the speed to dodge, Naruto's SM speed pales in comparison to his KCM speed, as proven by the fact that the most he could do against Madara is block. Whatever else you say here is irrelevant, as we have clear feats of Madara blitzing Naruto.

Naruto was able to outright evade him, by far. Distance here is larger than it was VS. Madara, he has intel on Ay's speed and Madara didn't blitz shit as he was blocked, and it was from a closer distance. Yet you are still running your mouth about the same shitty example.

Lol. Naruto feints Ay with a clone and kills him with Rasengan. Or he summons Ma and Pa and paralyzes him. Or he makes a wall of clones to block Ay's blitz.

Who the hell said anything about flying upwards?

Clone ain't blocking shit, clone gets sent flying into Naruto and goes poof and then Ei blitzes to Naruto while he is in the air and GG.

If you didn't mean flying upwards when you stated "While Naruto is in the air" then you should have worded your post better.

Ei covers it before Naruto has time to do anything bar blocking or dodging, if Ei notices that Naruto is capable of dodging V1 speed, he will go V2 speed, at which point its GG.

You keep repeating this, but you don't add the proof, just flimsy, shitty evidence.


If Ay goes at Naruto with V1 and not V2, Naruto does what he did with the 3rd except he one shots him with Senpo Oodama Rasengan.

My my aren't you ignorant, or at least blinded by your bias.

THERE ARE LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME THREE BROKEN PIPES ON TOP OF BOTH HOLES, how you do not notice this is beyond me. Just to put insult to injury, as if you have not embarrassed yourself enough, we see the same hole in the same position and everything

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.

Wow...how can anyone be this stupid? Look inside both holes dumbass, and you will clearly see that the one the Yak made is mostly made up of rock, cause he plowed through the wall. Inside the one Jiraiya was traveling through, THERE WAS PIPE LAID ALL THROUGHOUT THE TUNNEL.

This dumbreply only shows that you didn't read the fucking post. Yes, we know that those are the same holes, but the tunnel the Yak created LEADS TO A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TUNNEL. Which is where Jiraiya was at. The sheer fact that the insides of one tunnel looks like it was torn through (Hence there being NO pipe inside) while the others were already there, hence there being pipe inside.

If anyone is embarrassing himself, its the guy who can't read the manga, which is clearly you.

lol what? So a small chip at the too of the Ribcage, affected the durability of the Susanoo all around? Keep dreaming, Ei has also cracked Madaras Susanoo in two different occasions. So no, Narutos hands are coming clean off after a chop.

Small crack=/=Small chip.

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Not to mention Ay hit Sasuke in a similar area.

Yeah, with help from Onoki. The only time he hit himself was here, and

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did nothing to Susanoo.

If he slammed Sasuke into the ground, he would have had more momentum. If he uses liger bomb on Naruto (I don't see why he would), Naruto's head falls off.

Lol? Do you even know how momentum works? His momentum comes from swinging Sasuke upwards, then downwards toward the ground. Momentum isn't going to change because Susanoo is what ended up hitting the ground. Why don't you open a physics book up one of these days so you'll stop spouting this BS? Lol.

Momentum

Something you obviously don't understand.

Its called a Shunshin.

Yeah, and he did something that you are claiming he didn't. Shunshin, stop and Shunshin again. It was all one movement.

He thre exactly 3 FRS and made exactly 2 clones before running out, that's his limit of sage chakra usage.

3 FRS is what makes him run out of Sage Mode. You are going to have to provide proof that he can only make 2 clones while in Sage Mode. Even then that's debatable since he was able to make an FRS

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big, with his clones out, and still remained in Sage Mode. So 3 FRS isn't even his limit at this point.

Wrong. Ei charged, Minato teleported above him and just as when he was about to stab, the tentacle came down and Minato used Ei as Levrage to jump up and cut the tentacle (and plant the tag), Ei was sent flying forwards and quickly regained balance and jumped back. This is quiet literally what happened.

Lol, what the hell?

-Ay is dashing at Minato.

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-Minato evades and teleports above him. Ay is in that position because he was already in that position when he was dashing towards Minato.

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-Minato is about to cut Ay, but the tentacle comes and pushes Ay out of the way, so he ends up cutting that instead.

I don't know where you got this "Ay was kicked by Minato" and "Minato jumped up and cut the tentacle" shit from, but it wasn't the manga, as nothing of the sort was shown, at all.

It seems you only looked at the first panel, because in the bottom panels its quiet literally shown Sasuke using Shunshin to Sakura, and then Naruto following shortly after. And no, Precog does not give enhanced Shunshin, its because he got faster.

Sasuke jumping back to Sakura's side doesn't mean he used Shunshin, so no, nothing is shown, at all. Just you inventing stuff to try and support your argument.

Lol, precog was for Juubito, no shit it doesn't give you enhanced Shunshin, but its not like Sasuke's Shunshin is on par with KCM Naruto anyway.

First we deny that the Yak made that hole in the wall, then we start babbling about subjects we don't understand (Momentum) and now we are saying that Sasuke=KCM Naruto in speed....lol, what a joke.

 

[ARGUS]

Naruto wrecks him

 

[Bronze]

We'll have to go back to P1, and use Rock Lee's quotes: Even if you're able to sense or predict what your opponent will do, your body will actually have to function equally at the same. Naruto can sense and predict Ay's movements, but the problem is that his body is too slow to keep up. This is proven when base Madara outright blitzed Naruto, and the latter could not see it coming. He didn't avoid, because he couldn't. Ay is a lot faster than Madara, and his punches and kicks are so strong that KCM Naruto can barely withstand them. [

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] Those who have been saying Naruto wins, need to actually learn how to post a proper post with everything taken with consideration.

Now that ignorance has been thrown out of the window, Ay takes this match-up with minimum difficulty.​

 

[Brother Numpsay]

We'll have to go back to P1, and use Rock Lee's quotes: Even if you're able to sense or predict what your opponent will do, your body will actually have to function equally at the same. Naruto can sense and predict Ay's movements, but the problem is that his body is too slow to keep up. This is proven when base Madara outright blitzed Naruto, and the latter could not see it coming. He didn't avoid, because he couldn't. Ay is a lot faster than Madara, and his punches and kicks are so strong that KCM Naruto can barely withstand them. [

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] Those who have been saying Naruto wins, need to actually learn how to post a proper post with everything taken with consideration.

Now that ignorance has been thrown out of the window, Ay takes this match-up with minimum difficulty.​

Too bad that context was talking about the Sharingan, as SM reflexes are superior and coordinate w/ their bodies equally. His body isn't too slow to keep up as SM has better reaction then KCM and we know KCM only option was to out run Raikages fastest blitz. Madara did not blitz Naruto as he was shown to block Madara, even at a shorter distance. Later we see Naruto running towards Madara, which Madara decided to evade Naruto with Katon ashes. So using these examples doesn't support your claims at all.

 

[Bronze]

Too bad that context was talking about the Sharingan, as SM reflexes are superior and coordinate w/ their bodies equally. His body isn't too slow to keep up as SM has better reaction then KCM and we know KCM only option was to out run Raikages fastest blitz. Madara did not blitz Naruto as he was shown to block Madara, even at a shorter distance. Later we see Naruto running towards Madara, which Madara decided to evade Naruto with Katon ashes. So using these examples doesn't support your claims at all.

Sharingan has a superior reading movement than Sage mode. EMS Sasuke was keeping up fine with Madara, while Naruto got outdone right the start of the chapter. @Bold, [

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]. Blocking /=/ avoiding. The whole point is Naruto could not avoid it with reflexes, and his only option was to arm block it. In here, blocking is not important as Ay's punches will go right through him. @Underlined, not sure how this is important or true to begin with.

Off topic: I have an interview, so I'll be replying back later.​