Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki: The Last Enemy That Shall Be Destroyed

[valandil988]

Awesome, I'm sure Hags is the final Villain. Its the only way to wrap things up.

 

[Vega]

Glad to see discussion is going on
I made some responses, will get some more down later

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The only thing I am confused on is why would Kishi have Kurama state that nothing can be unsealed from those two tools when we have previous evidence indicating otherwise, at least for the Amber Purifying Pot, via the sealing and unsealing of the 8 Tails. I'd like to see what the VIZ states for that page. Hamura could very well still be in the Gourd because we have never seen a way in which that seal was broken.

Also, it seems odd that Kurama would only have a flashback of those two tools. Why were the other three not there? I know that at the time Obito was using them for the Gold/Silver brother's chakra to revive the Juubi so those two were the only ones relevant. If the other tools are not shown in the flashback, is Kishi hinting there's something special in particular about those two, considering they're the ones which were brought back into play (Madara spitting them out and the headpiece landing on them).

I was looking into those tools again via scans and wiki, one thing interesting to note is that Sandaime Raikage did not use the orthodox process of the Pot to seal Gyuuki, instead of recording the voice he used a Seal[

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]. Perhaps there are 2 functions to the Pot, a temporary seal activated via Hand-Signs and then the Permanent Seal through recording the Voice of the user and getting them to respond. The Crimson Gourd/Bottle is definitely permanent though. And you bring up a good point, he only remembered those two which were the sealing ones. I guess that strengthens their importance even more.

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Vega, I absolutely love your theory, and I am almost convinced that Hogoromo has a high chance of being the final villain. There are a lot of logical things you mentioned that will explain this perfectly. It would explain why we don't know anything about Hogoromo, why So6P was so careless with the tablets and why he just "stood by and watched his children fight" without really guiding them. One of your strongest points is about "reality often being an illusion", as Itachi said. It is a reoccurring theme in the manga and I could totally see this tie in with the entire flow of the story. You have a great eye for details and logical flow!

The only thing I am now wondering is: was the revival of Kaguya a necessary orchestration of Hogoromo? Was he hoping that Madara, or another Indra reincarnate, would try to obtain the Rinnegan and do IT, and thus "accidentally" revive Kaguya? So that he could finally have his mixing of chakra and be revived himself while forming the Juubi? I could totally see this being the case. Plus, he did look like a creeper in that last panel!

Again, fantastic theory, thanks for providing something quite thoughtful and innovative to read!! *high fives*

Thank you my friend
What you said is spot-on, as that was his way to get back into his world. He seems to be a non-corporeal form at the moment as well, perhaps it's possible he can possess someone like a ghost as Ashura and Obito have.[

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][

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] It'd make sense considering he was able to call the Souls back from the dead. Perhaps that is the real origin of Dan/Tobirama's Soul Kinjutsu as well.

Great theory mate, also a great job typing it all. I think I am not the only one who felt something is off after reading the last chapter. Also as for the final villain of Naruto I prefer a lot if someone like Hagoromo or Madara to be the one instead of Kaguya, we and Naruto the series deserves better than the mess of Kaguya.

Also since Hagoromo actually wanted to achieve true peace he tried with Ashura's way and seeing after centuries and centuries of it not working maybe he is going to try Indra's\Madara's way now instead of being a full blown villain?

Thanks man, and yes I agree with you lol.
You brought up a good point, I can see Hagoromo saying something like that or along the lines of "Humans are an unstable force requiring Guidance. I am that Guidance, the one who will bestow peace, order, and prosperity upon thee."

Bro, this is an incredible thread. One of the best that I've ever seen.

I would love for this to happen, but I'm not sure if Kishi is capable of writing such a mature story. This would defecate on the face of the messianic image of Ashura and his successors (which would be awesome).

Thanks Adeshina
That's something I thought as well, Kishi seems childish quite often. But I think this is something he planned at the start of the series and that his editor will also push for this (at least I hope). It would be an ultimate test for Naruto to go up against the original "Savior", and perhaps even having an emotional battle to seal Kurama in the process for the greater good granted the Bijuu will always be misused.

T

Spoiler

he Last movie is a potential Spoiler for the manga's future or it marks the end of the manga.

In, the movie; Naruto's left hand is bandaged where the Sun Seal once was.

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Earlier, most of us thought that after Kaguya's sealing; the seal lost it's purpose and became dormant; until Kaguya would rise again.

But, we know that both Naruto and Sauske lost their seals when sealing Kaguya.

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And these seals reappeared in Hagoromo's possession.

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That smile when he gets the seals back.

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If we do assume that Hagoromo is evil; then there is nothing to stop Hagoromo as the only things that could seal him; Moon and Sun seals are in his possession.

Hagoromo stole Hamura's power to get Kaguya's power; so it's logical that Hagoromo could be sealed by the same seals.

So, how can they seal Hagoromo ?

Well; there could be a Third Seal; i.e; the Earth Seal in the Possession Of Hamura.

The logic behind the claim dates a long time back given by two theories :-

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If Hamura had the Earth Seal; then he will obviously give it to Naruto to ensure Hagoromo's sealing.

After the sealing and Hagoromo's defeat; Naruto has no choice but to seal the Earth Seal; so he won't get corrupted by it and go down the same pathway as Hagoromo.

Which brings us back to Naruto's Left hand being bandaged in the movie.

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Good point, I think this seal loss would be a good explanation for his bandaging as well. I'll look at those theories as well, but at this point in time I remember something very far back into the Chunin Exams about having "Heaven and Earth". It was something about having both makes the true shinobi. I think one could equate Both Moon/Sun to "Heaven", and then the Nature energy to "Earth". I think this was said right before the Preliminaries as well in case anyone can find it.

That's a pretty good theory. Really good, I appreciate the time you took. Also adding that RDR of the last mission in the title, how the the criminal is always considered the bad guy when he's good. Like the sage considered a good guy all time while he might be a disaster.

Thanks
Exactly, I was thinking about that same mission while making this.

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Even if Hagoromo was bad and tried to rule the world ... he will die and he will not live for ever .

Thats why some people become Immortal ..... to live for ever and rule for ever .

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So Hagoromo must become immortal to live for ever to rule for ever .

In the Tale of The Bamboo Cutter ..... Kaguya left the Elixir of life when she left to the Moon .

Going to the Moon is similar to being sealed in the Moon .

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Elixir of life

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Legends , Myths , Religions .... etc are all similar

Take Zeus as example

In Greek : His name is Zeus

In Rome : His name is Jupiter

In Norse : His name is Thor

........................

That goes for almost everything .... it is like looking at the same Sun but naming it

In a different name .

Astrologers say Hermes is Moses

And I already explained that Moses is Hagoromo

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As you saw in that previous image .... Hermes and Thoth drunk the Elixir of life

In other words ..... both Hermes and Thoth represent Hagoromo

Lets see what Thoth is doing

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And his similarity to Hagoromo

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If either Hermes or Thoth drunk the elixir of life ..... thats mean Hagoromo did that too .

Which means Hagoromo is already immortal and ruling this world as he wish .... in other words

He is a dictator .

Or he is not immortal .... he was planning for becoming immortal .... like planing for giving birth

To another fruit and gain the ability of immortality from it .

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No matter how I look at it ...... Hagoromo is a bad guy .... even if the manga consider him as

A good guy ...... I personally don't .

Interesting stuff you bring up, one thought I had was the possibility of Lord Jashin (Hidan's God) and Hagoromo being possibly the same person.

Excellent theory! It's been a while since I read such a good one. In fact I had also written two theories about hagoromo and him being the only one who can potentially bypass his tools' seals

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. But you took it some steps further, especially the connection you made to te Hyuga ancestos was ingenious, well done!

Amazing theory!
I read it all and it was an exceptional read.


Also, about this part, the ones who knew the truth could have been the Uzumakis, so there was a need for them to vanish from the sight.

Thank you!
What you mentioned regarding the Uzumakis is actually very interesting, a while ago I theorized that Hamura would be the Hyuuga/Uzumaki link, and that Uzumaki's goal was to secretly pass down Sealing Jutsu. What if they were related to Hamura and were trying to create a Jutsu to seal Hagoromo and stumbled upon the Death God?

Hagoromo=Light from Death Note

I never thought it that way but I can see loosely the relation of wanting to rule the world lol.

 

[Six Paths]

Don't do this to me...This theory was perfect, maybe the greatest I have read. But I can't really believe Hagoromo is the key to evil. What you said though can never be disapproved. Vega you are the greatest theorist in NB.

 

[Byron123]

Don't do this to me...This theory was perfect, maybe the greatest I have read. But I can't really believe Hagoromo is the key to evil. What you said though can never be disapproved. Vega you are the greatest theorist in NB.

Man I'm so pumped up for the next chapters right now. Kaguya could never satisfy my lust for evilness but Hagoromo from the first moment had that something, that quality that makes him intriguing.

 

[Six Paths]

Man I'm so pumped up for the next chapters right now. Kaguya could never satisfy my lust for evilness but Hagoromo from the first moment had that something, that quality that makes him intriguing.

I know what you mean. I am so excited!!!!

 

[Sound]

Really impressive theory.​

 

[-Spoiler-]

Would be really Interesting if that happens great theory Vega. Would be kinda similar to what i'm be reading in Batman Eternal, Kaguya would be the known lesser evil, while Hagoromo would be the true evil pulling the heroes strings.

 

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Amazing work, as always.

Everything you said is highly plausible. I, too, thought that something was a little off with Hagoromo. What you've theorized isn't too farfetched, at all.

In fact, there's something that's been bugging me a little, and it will probably add some plausibility to this theory. There's plenty to suggest that Kaguya wasn't the FV, or that something big is about to go down.

In the last chapter, there's a bizarre panel of Sasuke. He has a sad expression on his face. I doubt that it's just a drawing mistake or a coincidence. Now that you notice it, doesn't the panel give off a vibe that Sasuke knows something that the rest don't?

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And, going in accordance with this, we still don't know what Hagoromo said to Sasuke in their talk. What if he told Sasuke (for example) that he was going to bring peace to the world, and make him Hokage, if he could kill Naruto and the other's that would be against him ruling over everything?

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Or maybe I'm just crazy

 

[Fireplay]

A very nice read. Im starting to believe that Hag is indeed the final villain. I mean think about it, Kaguya has already been sealed so theres no more use for those ninja tools, and Kaguya's defeat was too damn simple and easy.

It really is hard to believe that Hagoromo is evil, he seems like a good guy but i can't deny the fact that i've had a weird feeling about him ever since he showed up.

 

[Xlad]

Shit, I read the first part and it was already getting good. Reading it some more later on when I have time.

 

[-Spoiler-]

Amazing work, as always.

Everything you said is highly plausible. I, too, thought that something was a little off with Hagoromo. What you've theorized isn't too farfetched, at all.

In fact, there's something that's been bugging me a little, and it will probably add some plausibility to this theory. There's plenty to suggest that Kaguya wasn't the FV, or that something big is about to go down.

In the last chapter, there's a bizarre panel of Sasuke. He has a sad expression on his face. I doubt that it's just a drawing mistake or a coincidence. Now that you notice it, doesn't the panel give off a vibe that Sasuke knows something that the rest don't?

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And, going in accordance with this, we still don't know what Hagoromo said to Sasuke in their talk. What if he told Sasuke (for example) that he was going to bring peace to the world, and make him Hokage, if he could kill Naruto and the other's that would be against him ruling over everything?

Spoiler

Or maybe I'm just crazy

You could be right dude. i bet Sasuke's conversation will be featured next chapter

 

[EthioBoi]

Too many damn final bosses, but I do agree with the sage being evil.

 

[Madara mhm]

Lol, I don't understand where everyone is getting this evil persona for hagoromo from all of a sudden, then again we all have opinions, and I for one think hagoromo is not the final villain, if he was he's weaker then kaguya so Naruto and sasuke still stomp..

 

[xXVergiliusXx]

This is most likely the case.

agree, i don't buy that Hagoromo is a good guy >.>

also +rep TC it was a really interesting read

 

[Hinageshi]

This makes me wonder if the story of Indra and Ashura is even true. It was told to Naruto and it gave Ashura, who he is a transmigrant of, a significant positive slant. Hagoromo played the whole underdog who no one believed in but had lots of friends and became their hero schtick up for him because Naruto loves, loves stories like that. It plays on his heartstrings because it resembles his life.

Quite frankly, Naruto seems a little gullible.

And if that's a sham, who's to say Hagoromo even introduced himself as Hagoromo to Sasuke? or spoke about mostly Indra to him? For all we know Sasuke could have been regaled by the wonderful tale of Hamura, who gave his life for his brother. Kishimoto has pulled worse on us before and it seems like a lot of Eastern, or people familiar with Buddhism, can call out cultural markers that make Hago pretty suspect.

I think Hago's end goal is the fruit personally.

 

[GhostProject]

This would be interesting, but it goes against the overall theme of Yin and Yang that has been built.

In every case of Yin/Yang relationship in this manga, it has always been the "Yin" member that has showed a lack of comradeship. (Indra, Kid Kakashi, Danzo, Sasuke, Madara) Obito is the only Yang aligned character that has been evil, and even with that, he ended the same way as he started.

It would be odd if Hagaromo, the supposed Yang son, started the "kill your brother" theme, which resonated strongly with the Uchiha Clan.

Edit: I find it much more likely that Hamura wanted the power and Hagaromo defended himself. But I do get a "Brotherly conflict" vibe from all of this.

 

[Dãrth1]

Just, wow, omg

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Hagoromo is aware of the Elder Toad's Prophecy:

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And yet, the prophecy implies that Naruto will fight Sasuke:

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Hagoromo smirking:

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[adeshina365]

This would be interesting, but it goes against the overall theme of Yin and Yang that has been built.

In every case of Yin/Yang relationship in this manga, it has always been the "Yin" member that has showed a lack of comradeship. (Indra, Kid Kakashi, Danzo, Sasuke, Madara) Obito is the only Yang aligned character that has been evil, and even with that, he ended the same way as he started.

It would be odd if Hagaromo, the supposed Yang son, started the "kill your brother" theme, which resonated strongly with the Uchiha Clan.

Edit: I find it much more likely that Hamura wanted the power and Hagaromo defended himself. But I do get a "Brotherly conflict" vibe from all of this.

This is BS.

Sasuke leaving the village was solely the fault of the village. It was them who committed the genocide of an oppressed people. Konoha is built on a Senju "will of fire". In the end the Senju (yang) system only cared about understanding and loving others when it was convenient for them. The "will of fire" is a complete sham.

Madara was willing to work with Hashirama, but was forced to leave the village after realizing that the Uchiha clan were going to be wiped out under the future policies of Tobirama. In the end Hashirama had no problem with killing those who threatened his established system (he outright says it). So much for understanding and love; Hashirama himself enforced his peace through might.

The Uchiha (yin) have never had problems with cooperating with others (at least no more than the Senju). Under the village system they were forced to be defensive when their survival was in question.

The reality is that both the Uchiha and Senju enforce peace through might. The Senju are the kings of hypocrisy.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

This would be interesting, but it goes against the overall theme of Yin and Yang that has been built.

In every case of Yin/Yang relationship in this manga, it has always been the "Yin" member that has showed a lack of comradeship. (Indra, Kid Kakashi, Danzo, Sasuke, Madara) Obito is the only Yang aligned character that has been evil, and even with that, he ended the same way as he started.

It would be odd if Hagaromo, the supposed Yang son, started the "kill your brother" theme, which resonated strongly with the Uchiha Clan.

Edit: I find it much more likely that Hamura wanted the power and Hagaromo defended himself. But I do get a "Brotherly conflict" vibe from all of this.

Well there is a saying "The Darkening Of The Sun"

Kakashi and Obito were Yin and Yang in their youth, after the tragedy, Obito became the Yin while Kakashi became the Yang