[VS] Itachi vs Jiraya

Strict

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I guess we'll agree to disagree then, but just a point

Amaterasu appeared around A's location even before he actually dodged it

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Ay didn't dodge Amaterasu before it appeared on him on the panel. He dodged it after it appeared

It shows there is a formation time that allows speedsters like Ay to evade it before it completely takes them. You can't talk to me about latest chapters by using the example of someone who doesn't bother dodging considering she knows she possess the ability to absorb any ninjutsu
Well, this panel showed how the flame starts to ignite before Ay, before he escapes with his maximum speed from Sasuke's line of sight and the flame can't stick to his body. But this scan proves the impressive speed of Amaterasu imo. Ay moves with lightning speed, not allowing the eyes to follow him. The fact that this maneuver was so slowed down that we saw Ay moving, and Amaterasu nevertheless started to appear before his body, proves its impressive speed. The flame doesn't appear at your body but right before, before it immediately sticks at it. And this brief moment was used by Ay to dodge. In a non slowed down scenario, you see the flame igniting at your body directly [ ]. A human can't even react to that. As shown in your scan, even against Ay, the flame starts to appear before your body. You can react at Amaterasu via eye sight, but then you need an instant protection, there is no time for hand seals or significant moves, as one blink is enough for the flame to instantly ignite at the target. When Kabuto ran towards Itachi and Sasuke, Sasuke ignited Amaterasu instantly before his feet to make him stop.

Amaterasu is too fast. That's what I learned from the Manga, of course we don't need to agree.
 

Demonic.

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Well, this panel showed how the flame starts to ignite before Ay, before he escapes with his maximum speed from Sasuke's line of sight and the flame can't stick to his body. But this scan proves the impressive speed of Amaterasu imo. Ay moves with lightning speed, not allowing the eyes to follow him. The fact that this maneuver was so slowed down that we saw Ay moving, and Amaterasu nevertheless started to appear before his body, proves its impressive speed. The flame doesn't appear at your body but right before, before it immediately sticks at it. And this brief moment was used by Ay to dodge. In a non slowed down scenario, you see the flame igniting at your body directly [ ]. A human can't even react to that. As shown in your scan, even against Ay, the flame starts to appear before your body. You can react at Amaterasu via eye sight, but then you need an instant protection, there is no time for hand seals or significant moves, as one blink is enough for the flame to instantly ignite at the target. When Kabuto ran towards Itachi and Sasuke, Sasuke ignited Amaterasu instantly before his feet to make him stop.

Amaterasu is too fast. That's what I learned from the Manga, of course we don't need to agree.
Sasuke ran from it. I don't think you can compare Sasuke's Amaterasu with Itachi's. Sasuke has more mastery over it, and Itachi was going blind already.
 

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That's not true. Sasuke surpassed Itachi in the point of controlling the flames (with Kagutsuchi). But their Amaterasu is the same Jutsu. A flame that ignites wherever the eye aims at.
 

UltimateDeadpool

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It took him a whole chapter to enter Sage Mode. He simply won't have the chance against Itachi, who can use Genjutsu at all ranges, can control Jiraiya's summon, use Amaterasu and Susanoo with the Totsuka blade to seal away anything.

I also don't get why you allude to Itachi's stamina problem. Who was exhausted first, Itachi or Sasuke? Right, Sasuke was exhausted first and relied on Orochimaru's powers, while Itachi could still use Susanoo. Despite Itachi used Tsukuyomi and set a huge area on fire with his Amaterasu. He set on fire half the forest surrounding the Uchiha palace. Considering that all those flames consist of Chakra, Itachi would be able to cast a dozen of Amaterasu.

Jiraiya wouldn't even survive 2-3 usages of the MS. He simply won't counter the MS in the long run. Impossible. Itachi shits on Jiraiya. He shit on Orochimaru, he is portrayed as leagues above the Sannin.

Jiraiya makes 4 Shadow Clones and while he summons the Ni Dai Sennin, the clones use Underworld Swamp, Flattnened Silhoutte Manipulation, Food Cart Destroyer, and Toad Oil Fireball. By some miracle that Itachi survives, Jiraiya will be in Sage Mode.
Jiraiya wasn't trying to activate Sage Mode either, he was trying to summon the Ni Dai Sennin into his body; something that wasn't necessary in hindsight since they can fuse themselves to Jiraiya. So if he just summoned them and then let them fuse to him, then it just takes a couple seconds.
Sasuke manipulated Manda, that isn't Itachi's feat.
Jiraiya can stay out of range of Totsuka and avoid Amaterasu.

Sasuke used more jutsus, including Chidori variants and Oral Rebirth which are chakra heavy, and he shot a dozen B-rank fireballs into the sky. Sasuke also fought Deidara to exhaustion just earlier that morning.
Itachi's little bit of Amaterasu that was chasing Sasuke touched some of those trees and became a forest fire, that's it. Itachi used Tsukiyomi once, Amaterasu twice, and Susanoo twice; one partial and one full. That's about his limit. Even in part 1, Itachi used 3 MS's and needed to rest.

Jiraiya would survive even 2-3 usages, and then Itachi's almost out of shots. Itachi "shit" on Orochimaru the same way Sasuke "shit" on Itachi. Itachi has the same feat as Sasuke, whom admitted to being weaker than Orochimaru. And even then, Itachi encountered Orochimaru when he was gimped. But this isn't about Orochimaru, Itachi himself said that he and Jiraiya are equals, and it has been reinforced that SM = MS.

wtf.. Madara absorbed Amaterasu. The flames were deleted and disappeared despite of burning on him (it even burned on his shoulder). The flames burn until the target is burnt. Are we really gonna argue whether hairs stop Amaterasu and get rid of it? What's wrong with you Bogard.

Yet Madara was still burning as he took off his burning clothes, so he didn't absorb it.

Clothes stopped Amaterasu, so why not thick steel-like hair? Thin armor worked for that samurai.

Then, we have to agee to disagree.

In the last week's chapter, we saw how Amaterasu instantly ignites where the user aims at; the user isn't even able to react (unless you are on a level with Juubi Jins, who even react at Minato's FTG). Amaterasu was used as fast by Itachi and Sasuke with EMS and MS only.

2. Even if he covers himself completely with hair, the flames will cover him completely. And I don't believe that his technique will allow him to grow his hair so he can shed the burned part. This is not how this technique is intended to work. It is portrayed as a Ninjutsu allowing Jiraiya to stretch his hair. Nothing more.

So as we can't agree again, we should leave here.

1. I saw it slamming into the opponent last week. The artist doesn't have to draw panels of jutsus travel time, and he often doesn't.

2. He can seal the flames while they are kept away from his body.

Not really a fire ball. I'd say that like Kamui, Amaterasu is formed via a space-time void depending on where the user looks. From where it appears, it follows line-sight, but depending on the speed of the opponent he can react to the formation time of the jutsu

Except Kamui stays where it's formed, it doesn't move if the target moves, as shown with Deidara.

Amaterasu has been shown as a fireball and has been shown to have momentum.

Well, this panel showed how the flame starts to ignite before Ay, before he escapes with his maximum speed from Sasuke's line of sight and the flame can't stick to his body. But this scan proves the impressive speed of Amaterasu imo. Ay moves with lightning speed, not allowing the eyes to follow him. The fact that this maneuver was so slowed down that we saw Ay moving, and Amaterasu nevertheless started to appear before his body, proves its impressive speed. The flame doesn't appear at your body but right before, before it immediately sticks at it. And this brief moment was used by Ay to dodge. In a non slowed down scenario, you see the flame igniting at your body directly [ ]. A human can't even react to that. As shown in your scan, even against Ay, the flame starts to appear before your body. You can react at Amaterasu via eye sight, but then you need an instant protection, there is no time for hand seals or significant moves, as one blink is enough for the flame to instantly ignite at the target. When Kabuto ran towards Itachi and Sasuke, Sasuke ignited Amaterasu instantly before his feet to make him stop.

Amaterasu is too fast. That's what I learned from the Manga, of course we don't need to agree.

You don't escape something that's instant unless you're faster than "instant." Ei is also a few hundred thousands of miles an hour slower than light too, which I imagine is slower than "instant," which means it's not instant. And if Amaterasu was already on him, it's not going to just fall off because he jumped. It was a fireball and he moved out of the way.

Why would Amaterasu appear inches infront of you, then shoot at you? There's nothing that even alludes to this, it's all overly complicated fanon mechanics that is meant to dismiss any contradiction from the idea that Amaterasu is the most op thing in the manga.

Sasuke dodged it and Bee intercepted it with his tail. Hell, it was stated that MS Sasuke and SM Naruto were equals, how are they equals is Sasuke could just one-shot him at the start of the fight with Amaterasu?
 
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Phonas

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Are we seriously debating the effectiveness of Amaterasu? Get real:


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UltimateDeadpool said:
Itachi's speed advantage is only a slim one. Kisame with a 4.0 in speed kept up with Gai's 5.0. Itachi and Base Jiraiya and Itachi only have a 0.5 difference... in Sage Mode, Jiraiya would be blatantly superior.

No. A 0.5 difference is a gargantuan disparity in terms of stats. Think of it as decimals, where there are infinitesimal increments of 0.1 or even 0.01. Itachi's speed was leagues above Sasuke's, yet Sasuke's speed was perceived as being extremely fast for Deidara/Tobi (of course that's prior to the current Sasuke,lol) but he had a 4.5 in the speed department. I don't feel like going in depth into this, so I will just leave off with these next few statements: SM Jiraiya has never displayed any speed feat that's even remotely close to Itachi's. In addition, Itachi is faster than "Complete" Dragon Sage Mode Kabuto, which is a substantiation to the fact that Itachi is indeed faster than "Incomplete" SM Jiraiya.
 
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LuckyMan

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Are we seriously debating the effectiveness of Amaterasu? Get real:


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No. A 0.5 difference is a gargantuan disparity in terms of stats. Think of it as decimals, where there are infinitesimal increments of 0.1 or even 0.01. Itachi's speed was leagues above Sasuke's, yet Sasuke's speed was perceived as being extremely fast for Deidara/Tobi (of course that's prior to the current Sasuke,lol) but he had 4.5 in the speed department. I don't feel like going in depth into this, so I will just leave off with these next few statements: SM Jiraiya has never displayed any speed feat that's even remotely close to Itachi's. In addition, Itachi is faster than "Complete" Dragon Sage Mode Kabuto, which is a substantiation to the fact that Itachi is indeed faster than SM Jiraiya.

Is anyone even taking this kid serious?

@OT This still going on :|
 

WolfHaley

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Jiraiya seals away Amaterasu just like he did last time, foolish to think he'd seal that Jutsu away and not have a counter prepared for the future. Food cart destroyer crushes him, and if it doesn't, Doton Yomi finishes him off.

The United States only let those wannabe Dutchmen win.

At the end if the day: Germany got this.
 
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Oznod

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"Place: Destroyed Konoha
Restrictions: Genjutsu from both (I know its a high nerf for Itachi)
Who wins"
I don't get it why even put a restrictions Jiraya is not Naruto who got put in a Genjutsu before the fight even begun.

because if it was that easy why didn't Itachi just put a genjutsu on jiraiya & Naruto when he was going to Kidnap Naruto and just take him. Are they close or far from each other ? Huge factor in the fight because of Jiraiya's toad mouth trap which Itachi ran and used Amaterasu. Also because juts because itachi has high genjutsu lvl does not mean he can't fall under Jiraiya's Toad music genjutsu i don't know what lvl's the toad Genjutsu is neither do you. Also Jiraiya uses alot of summoning such as the the two toads on his shoulders and the ungraceful toad. Also Jiraiya has that hair streaching jutsu and shadow clones and his summoning that can help him break out of genjutsu. and he has earth release so he can use swamp of the under world when itachi uses his susano. he could also use oil toad release and bullet fire to cover susano's body which itachi can't stay in for long. sage art goemon. (SORRY NOT TOAD BELLY "TOAD MOUTH BIND")and lion mane and also hiding inside a small toad.


Sorry I was on Jiraiya's D but all I'm saying this won't be an easy fight because i believe Jiraiya has the ability to make Itachi spend alot of his Charaka and this is where I see Jiraiya's Chance of defeating Itachi not that he would but that he could. We all know Itachi's power's but no one would point out Jiraiya's power so i did just to tell you Itachi fan boy's and girl its not that easy. I like Jiraiya but I'm more of a fan Maito Gui.

Also I'm talking Genjutsu included. :eek:o:
 

Unorthodox

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itachi wins everytime i wouldnt even debate with bogard or invisibileman concerning uchiha the bias is outstanding with those two
 

HNIC

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I need Manga proof of this.

Yepp Jiraiya will have time to pull out and open his scroll in time for Amaterasu. Amaterasu plows through needle Jizo just like it plowed through TMT. Not even going to bother with that third idiotic bullshit. As i said before Kakashi who has terrible draw backs managed to use his MS and perform Kamui all the while before getting hit by a Susanoo arrow. He won't live long enough to get into sm. He'll have to get close sometime. Please.


You realize Amaterasu spreads right? Jiraiya will have to shoot off all his hairs in order to get rid of it. Try again bobo. Also like i said before you Jiraiya arguments are just shitty.


None of the counters can even be considered reasonal.


Lmao now you know what's it like to debate against yourself. Also where is Jiraiya offence in this battle? Honestly?

For once i agree with you.

Transplanted eyes are always active, we see this from Danzo and Mizukage's guard. The very reason they need to see them covered all the time.
 

Dãrth1

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OMG
Never thought this would be such a long thread
 

Phonas

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Jiraiya seals away Amaterasu just like he did last time, foolish to think he'd seal that Jutsu away and not have a counter prepared for the future. Food cart destroyer crushes him, and if it doesn't, Doton Yomi finishes him off.

Are you aware of the steps that Jiraiya has to take in order to use the scroll? Sharingan genjutsu or Susanoo sword says bye to Food Cart Destroyer. Itachi will place chakra on his feet to walk on the mud, just as Izuisimo did with his syrup jutsu as he approached Kakuzu. Not to mention Itachi has the Sharingan precognition, so he'll counteract way before Jiraiya even has the opportunity to use the jutsu. Ask Kabuto and Deidara.

Oznod said:
because if it was that easy why didn't Itachi just put a genjutsu on jiraiya & Naruto when he was going to Kidnap Naruto and just take him. Are they close or far from each other ?

Because of this: Had he placed Jiraiya in genjutsu, Kisame would have sliced him with the Samehada, since of course, Jiraiya would be in a comatose state leaving him open to a lethal assault.

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Phonas

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Non-canonical proof, translated by the Viz English anime team, that Itachi could have extirpated Jiraiya with Amaterasu.

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Oh, and Jiraiya was making eye-contact with Itachi (I know genjutsu is restricted but I just felt the need to throw it out there):

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Oznod

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Jiraiya already sealed Amaterasu.

Jiraiya avoids Amaterasu.

Jiraiya bunshin feints Amaterasu.

Who has Amaterasu beaten, anyway? lol.

Underworld Swamp GG, prove me wrong.



That was a drugged Jiraiya. Get your facts straight.



Why does Jiraiya need Sage Mode?

Ninjutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Chakra: 5
Handseals: 4.5

Those are his stats in base, and are more than adaquate for dealing with Itachi. Jiraiya also has a plethora of powerful jutsus at his disposal.



How?

Itachi has to close his eye.
Build chakra pressure.
Eyes bleeds.
Then focus on a target.

That's like 5 seconds of prep for a clone.

Great logic there, buddy.



And Itachi starts off fights spamming Amaterasu and stuff? Nice try.



Bee disagrees with you.

Amaterasu can be intercepted and dodged.



Ei comfortably dodged it.

People have kept up with Ei.

Sasuke dodged it.

We don't need to have any feats of him using what he can obviously use. Besides, he used a clone feint in his book, which Minato said was like Jiraiya's autobiography.

No, it's simply favorable to your argument.



There you go assuming again.

Jiraiya has a 4.5 in speed, same as Sasuke, and I'm sure he's faster than Bee's tail.

A Shadow Clone alone is all that's needed, or shoot it with a Katon.



Jiraiya seals it.



So you think that Amaterasu is basically just the Deathnote in Itachi's eyes and he beats everyone with it? So basically powerlevels, match-ups, and everything else means nothing because Itachi one-shots everyone with a jutsu that is exactly as fast and powerful as you want it to be and all evidence to the contrary means nothing. Congratulations, your opinion doesn't matter.



I remember you, you only believe what you want to believe.

Ok...

Underworld Swamp GG. Itachi has no counters.
Food Cart Destroyer GG. Itachi has no counters.
Flattened Silhouette Manipulation GG. Itachi has no counters.
Toad Gourd Prison GG. Itachi has no counters.
Frog Conversion GG. Itachi has no counters.



I read a lot of "blah, blah, blah," but no actual facts or arguments presented.



You took the words out of my mouth.



Well said, sir. You are impressing me.

Its because they don't get it they think itachi has unlimited chakara and will spam amaterasu and if he does that he will die. and that is only if itachi uses his powerful jutsus and if he does not he will have to fight for a long time because of the ungreaceful toad making want to use amaterasu to get rid of one of his target. so i think genjutsu it a huge nerf on ittachi to the point its almost not even fair.
 

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Jiraya's technique grows hair from the original one. He can't lose his hair even if he fired all of it, because it's how the technique works
He is right it grow hair and makes it steel like using his chakara.
 

Unorthodox

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He is right it grow hair and makes it steel like using his chakara.

doesnt matter jiraiya removes senbons of hair witch is no where near enough he is lite a blaze
 

Oznod

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Are you aware of the steps that Jiraiya has to take in order to use the scroll? Sharingan genjutsu or Susanoo sword says bye to Food Cart Destroyer. Itachi will place chakra on his feet to walk on the mud, just as Izuisimo did with his syrup jutsu as he approached Kakuzu. Not to mention Itachi has the Sharingan precognition, so he'll counteract way before Jiraiya even has the opportunity to use the jutsu. Ask Kabuto and Deidara.



Because of this: Had he placed Jiraiya in genjutsu, Kisame would have sliced him with the Samehada, since of course, Jiraiya would be in a comatose state leaving him open to a lethal assault.

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no the mud tries to drown the opponet
 
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