[VS] Itachi vs Jiraya

[TRE MERCER]

His sharingan is always active, kamui is faster than Amaterasu, etc

I need Manga proof of this.

Since amaterasu seems to be a hot topic, I will list the ways Jiraiya can counter it.

-Fire sealing scroll (situational obviously)
-Needle Jizo
-Frog summons to be used as meat shields (not in character but works regardless)
-Kage bunshins
-Substitution jutsu
-Dust cloud from Ma (SM only)
-Stay out of Amaterasu's range
-Smoke bombs

Yepp Jiraiya will have time to pull out and open his scroll in time for Amaterasu. Amaterasu plows through needle Jizo just like it plowed through TMT. Not even going to bother with that third idiotic bullshit. As i said before Kakashi who has terrible draw backs managed to use his MS and perform Kamui all the while before getting hit by a Susanoo arrow. He won't live long enough to get into sm. He'll have to get close sometime. Please.

That's because your ignorance is bull, not knowing Jiraya can throw his hair away from his body anytime he wants [

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] Not that i'll try to convince you though considering you don't even know what you're talking about

You realize Amaterasu spreads right? Jiraiya will have to shoot off all his hairs in order to get rid of it. Try again bobo. Also like i said before you Jiraiya arguments are just shitty.

The fact they think Amaterasu one-shots Jman and the fact its been countered, combined with the fact that they have not posted any other argument just shows they can't even hold a decent serious debate.

None of the counters can even be considered reasonal.

No you won't. Your in the top Itachi wankers on this site. If Amaterasu is the only chance Itachi has to win versus Jman he most certainly loss. No one can make an argument to support Itachi outside of Amaterasu, which has already been countered. He has several other jutsu yet all they can muster up in an argument is Amaterasu. That tells me to stop deabting this.

Lmao now you know what's it like to debate against yourself. Also where is Jiraiya offence in this battle? Honestly?

Itachi wins this high diff

For once i agree with you.

 

[Beans2]

- You seem to love using the Needle Jizo argument so much that I forgot you know little to nothing about it! Silly me. Since you weren't already aware, let me dumb it down for you even more. When Jiraiya activates Needle Jizo it automatically both hardens and sharpens his hair into a blade-like fashion in order to serve as both an offense and defense. Believe it or not, there's a reason Jiraiya named the technique NEEDLE Jizo. As for Amaterasu, according to you, NOT being able to burn through Jiraiya's HAIR? Holy lord, save me now. Sasuke's Amaterasu not burning through Ay's arm, not burning through Nagato quickly, and not burning through the samurai's armor is contributed to one thing: they didn't focus their Amaterasu. Here, since it's a 1v1, Itachi will focus it instead of having to worry about fighting other shinobi. It'll easily render his hair to ash.

Interesting...you claim if Jiraiya covers his face with his hair it will pierce his face. Strange, because when he covered his body with needle jizo it didn't pierce his body

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Not to mention, he DID cover the lower half of his face in that scan, confirming that he didn't block his eyes only because he wanted to see. If you still see a problem with this, Jiraiya can leave some space between his face and the hair.

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^actual scan from the manga

Now, why does amaterasu not just burn through his hair? Simple, he shoots off the burnt hairs back at Itachi with Kebari senbon.

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When this happens, one of two things will occur.
1 - Itachi is forced to break concentration and stop focusing his amaterasu and shift attention to defending himself against the burning needles (most likely)
2 - Itachi somehow defends himself without breaking concentration. Jiraiya continues expanding his hair and shooting off the needles. Since amaterasu is a chakra-taxing technique Itachi can't focus his amaterasu longer than Jiraiya can continue to expand the Jizo and shoot off his needles.

- Summons are useless at this point. Itachi'll slaughter them all easily with either Ama or Sakegari.

The point of the summon isn't to keep it alive. It is simply used as a shield between Jiraiya and Amaterasu.

- Itachi used it the second he broke out of Edo Tensei.

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Quite literally, it was his first attack. I don't see why he wouldn't do it here. Besides, the difference is that Jiraiya hasn't actually used Kage Bunshins AT ALL in a major fight. You are, again, taking things that OTHER people have used and automatically contributing it to Jiraiya. Not that it matters. A single exploding clone takes care of the rest of Jiraiya's clones. They're useless. Even if an exploding clone doesn't work, Itachi can trace Amaterasu to get rid of them like this, nailing the real one hiding in the midst of the fakes.

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Itachi used it during a fight even while he was purposely throwing the fight, and when he used it it was against a mere Katon. Him using it against Jiraiya, knowing his reputation as a Sannin, is not far-fetched at all; rather, it is most likely.

First off, it's not totally out of character for Jiraiya to use kage bunshins in this scenario. He has a much greater understanding of Itachi's genjutsu and understands its deadliness much more since his last encounter with Itachi (he saw how Itachi completely manipulated a woman to seduce him; he saw how much damage Tsukuyomi dealt to Kakashi; he saw how totally incapacitated Sasuke was after taking a Tsukuyomi from Itachi.) Jiraiya is an analytical man, he knows kage bunshins are immune to genjutsu so it's actually pretty likely he'd put up a bunch of them at the beginning.

Please reread my post. I said ALIVE Itachi. Edo Itachi can afford to spam Amaterasu for eternity. When he's alive he doesn't have that luxury (since his stamina and chakra reserves are shit) and will try to take down Jiraiya through other means first (alive Itachi always starts out his battles with his 3T arsenal.) It's the same case with Jiraiya and shadow clones - is it in character for him to use them? Maybe, maybe not. Is it in character for alive Itachi to spam amaterasu at the beginning of a battle?

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Not that it matters, anyway. If I cared about Itachi and Jiraiya being in character I wouldn't even be having this conversation since an amaterasu one-shot would be out of question. So you need to figure out a way for Itachi to handle these shadow clones, because they are a hard counter to amaterasu.

Moving on. Exploding clones are killed through any of Jiraiya's hair techniques, the best option probably being Kebari Senbon. A line of amaterasu? Please. That's assuming the clones are all going to be in a straight line, plus the image you showed was multiple amaterasu. Itachi needs to focus on each individual clone to ignite them, he doesn't have enton. Since he can't distinguish the real from the fakes, he can either spam amaterasu, hoping to nail the real one by some lucky chance (and dying of chakra exhaustion in the meantime) or figure out a different way to take care of them - proving that Itachi can't beat Jiraiya with amaterasu alone as you claim.

- Itachi's crow flies (obviously), and Jiraiya isn't going to be in the dust. Even if he does, again, Itachi can simply jump out of it via Shunshin. Yeah, he can sense it coming and when he does he'll respond with his own Katon like you said he would. When he does this he'll only end up helping clear the dust.

Uh, what? Jiraiya obviously WILL be in the dust. Ma is perched on his shoulder and she's spitting out a dust cloud around them. Neither Itachi nor his crow can see through the dust (it's irrelevant whether or not Itachi is in the dust cloud.) Jiraiya overpowers Itachi's katon like

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, except Fukusaku and Jiraiya will be spitting out oil/fire, while Shima continues to spit out the dust cloud to make up for the dust that is being cleared by the katons.

- Jiraiya only uses his barrier against people who are invisible. That's why he used it against Pain. Besides, how the hell does sensing where a person is mean that he can out run Itachi? Df?

This is the absolute pinnacle of your ignorance. Since Jiraiya only used his barrier once and it was against an invisible opponent, that means he only uses it against invisible opponents right? Kakashi and Jiraiya always exchange intel regarding Akatsuki, especially Itachi. Kakashi certainly told Jiraiya about Itachi's extremely fast shunshin, fast hand seals, and clones. Jiraiya would erect the barrier to prevent surprise attacks. Once Itachi enters his barrier Jiraiya is instantly alerted while Itachi is still some distance away (since the barrier is huge.) This gives Jiraiya early warning, giving him ample time to counterattack.

- Yeah, they won't, unless they're full of chakra to the point of where it confuses Itachi's eyesight. Otherwise, Itachi sees right through it and sees Jiraiya's chakra and attacks from there.

That is why I said ok and moved on.

As well as possessing slow reaction time, no speed feats, and inferior agility in combination with the fact that he has no real, feasable counter to Amaterasu, Jiraiya has nothing that can put Itachi down for good. Saying Jiraiya is going to counter this with Bunshins is utterly retarded because absolutely ANYONE can counter ANYTHING using shadow clones. To make this situation worse, Jiraiya never even uses shadow clones! This is grasping at straws. Jiraiya using a barrier intended for invisible opponents against a clearly visible Itachi because he predicted before the fight that Itachi's going to be too fast for him? That's likely Lol.

This isn't worth replying to.

 

[Demonic.]

I think we all can agree Sage Mode Jiraiya wins. I reread the Pain vs Jiraiya fight, and it didn't take long at all to summon Ma and Pa. It happened in the same chapter, just a few pages and not a lot happened in between. The rhyno summoning just charged at Jiraiya and was overpowered.

 

[Strict]

I think we all can agree Sage Mode Jiraiya wins. I reread the Pain vs Jiraiya fight, and it didn't take long at all to summon Ma and Pa. It happened in the same chapter, just a few pages and not a lot happened in between. The rhyno summoning just charged at Jiraiya and was overpowered.

It took him a considerable time to enter Sage Mode, where he wasn't able to fight on his own. And Itachi is leagues above Chikushodo. I doubt that Itachi, if he goes all out, will even allow Jiraiya to enter Sage Mode. He either burns his summon or controls it with Genjutsu. While remaining in the same position, he becomes an easy target for Itachi. Forget about SM. And I disagree anyway on him beating Itachi in SM.

 

[Demonic.]

It took him a considerable time to enter Sage Mode, where he wasn't able to fight on his own. And Itachi is leagues above Chikushodo. I doubt that Itachi, if he goes all out, will even allow Jiraiya to enter Sage Mode. He either burns his summon or controls it with Genjutsu. While remaining in the same position, he becomes an easy target for Itachi. Forget about SM. And I disagree anyway on him beating Itachi in SM.

If you reread the chapter you'll see it wasn't long at all. I was surprised myself. The anime really extended it with stuff that didn't even happen. For one, Jiraiya never ran away from summons with his hands in place. He stayed in the same area where he used the barrier the whole time. At the very least, they both die. Itachi will be exhausted just like Hebi Sasuke exhausted him and pushed him to the brink of death. Everyone knows Itachi could've killed Sasuke had he wanted to, but it doesn't change the fact Sasuke exhausted him in the fight.

 

[Strict]

It took him a whole chapter to enter Sage Mode. He simply won't have the chance against Itachi, who can use Genjutsu at all ranges, can control Jiraiya's summon, use Amaterasu and Susanoo with the Totsuka blade to seal away anything.

I also don't get why you allude to Itachi's stamina problem. Who was exhausted first, Itachi or Sasuke? Right, Sasuke was exhausted first and relied on Orochimaru's powers, while Itachi could still use Susanoo. Despite Itachi used Tsukuyomi and set a huge area on fire with his Amaterasu. He set on fire half the forest surrounding the Uchiha palace. Considering that all those flames consist of Chakra, Itachi would be able to cast a dozen of Amaterasu.

Jiraiya wouldn't even survive 2-3 usages of the MS. He simply won't counter the MS in the long run. Impossible. Itachi shits on Jiraiya. He shit on Orochimaru, he is portrayed as leagues above the Sannin.

 

[Bogard]

You realize Amaterasu spreads right? Jiraiya will have to shoot off all his hairs in order to get rid of it. Try again bobo. Also like i said before you Jiraiya arguments are just shitty.

You realise it spread on Madara's head right? And just like i've already said, your counter-arguments are stupid because of your ignorance, so please stop playing smart because you're not

 

[Strict]

wtf.. Madara absorbed Amaterasu. The flames were deleted and disappeared despite of burning on him (it even burned on his shoulder). The flames burn until the target is burnt. Are we really gonna argue whether hairs stop Amaterasu and get rid of it? What's wrong with you Bogard.

 

[Bogard]

wtf.. Madara absorbed Amaterasu or did something else. The flames were deleted and disappeared despite of burning on him (it even burned on his shoulder). The flames burn until the target is burnt. Are we really gonna argue whether hairs stop Amaterasu and get rid of it? What's wrong with you Bogard.

The question is what is wrong with you? Who said he didn't? But he speaks as if they spread the same second it touched him. No, it stayed on him a while before he actually absorbed it. It does matter in Jiraya's case considering he can transform his hair in needle senbons similar to that of Kaguya's, automatically throwing them away from his body. So if Amaterasu touches his hair, it's no problem considering he could throw it away anytime he wants. The issue is to touch the body directly. Touching Jiraya's hair with Amaterasu would be a waste of time

 

[Strict]

Amaterasu burned on Madara's complete back. Even if Jiraiya protects himself with his hair, Amaterasu spreads on your whole body. Either Jiraiya throws away his complete hair or he dies. Don't you see how Madara's complete back was on fire? Jiraiya certainly won't get rid of the flames by shooting needle senbons out of his hair.

It's bad that you never will agree on something. Once you formed your opinion, other arguments mean shit to you.

 

[Bogard]

*Geez*

Madara's hair vs Amaterasu

1- Stays on him few panels [

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2- Absorbs it after few other panels [

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3- No hair loss [

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Where did that instant Amaterasu burn go?

Jiraya

Spoiler

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If you still don't get that a Amaterasu hair burning on Jiraya is useless, then it's pretty sad if you ask me

 

[NightGuy]

I think J-man has a chance to outlast this hindered Itachi.. Itachi even praised his abilities. I'd say it's a toss up for either of them, high difficulty.

 

[Strict]

Panel 1, the flame hits Madara's back, panel 2, he immediately turns around and then the absorption starts, since he is already absorbing when the others talk as Hashirama revers to it. When using his Senbons, Jiraiya shots hairs at the target. First explain to me how it helps him to get rid of the flames which burn at his complete body and we can continue. As the flames cover his whole hair, it's logical that he need to get rid of all these hairs.

 

[Bogard]

Panel 1, the flame hits Madara's back, panel 2, he immediately turns around and then the absorption starts, since he is already absorbing when the others talk as Hashirama revers to it. When using his Senbons, Jiraiya shots hairs at the target. First explain to me how it helps him to get rid of the flames which burn at his complete body and we can continue. As the flames cover his whole hair, it's logical that he need to get rid of all these hairs.

Jiraya's technique grows hair from the original one. He can't lose his hair even if he fired all of it, because it's how the technique works

 

[Strict]

Then, we have to agee to disagree.

In the last week's chapter, we saw how Amaterasu instantly ignites where the user aims at; the user isn't even able to react (unless you are on a level with Juubi Jins, who even react at Minato's FTG). Amaterasu was used as fast by Itachi and Sasuke with EMS and MS only.

2. Even if he covers himself completely with hair, the flames will cover him completely. And I don't believe that his technique will allow him to grow his hair so he can shed the burned part. This is not how this technique is intended to work. It is portrayed as a Ninjutsu allowing Jiraiya to stretch his hair. Nothing more.

So as we can't agree again, we should leave here.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

Bee didn't say, "I know," that was what Naruto said when Itachi Shunshined over his head.

And yeah Ik about the Kabuto thing, but Itachi wasn't going for the kill. Itachi was inches away from slicing off his head. If he was going for the kill, the odds are that he would of gone for his head instead of his horn.


Heading offline.

In another translation, Bee said "I know." Are you saying that Itachi can say an entire sentence faster than he can shunshin? That's pretty slow. However you look at it, Bee was faster than Itachi's shunshin because he wasn't touched.

You just said that Itachi was inches away from slicing off Kabuto's head, but then you say that Itachi wasn't aiming for his head... but if Itachi wasn't trying to cut off Kabuto's head, why was he trying to cut off Kabuto's head? Kabuto's horn got cut off by accident, he forgot he had horns and Itachi was not aiming for the horn.

Totsuka and Yata Mirror anybody? Or Itachi's blatantly superior speed?

Overglorified sword and shield.

Itachi's speed advantage is only a slim one. Kisame with a 4.0 in speed kept up with Gai's 5.0. Itachi and Base Jiraiya and Itachi only have a 0.5 difference... in Sage Mode, Jiraiya would be blatantly superior.

 

[TRE MERCER]

You realise it spread on Madara's head right? And just like i've already said, your counter-arguments are stupid because of your ignorance, so please stop playing smart because you're not

Tssk i quit your dumb as f*ck.

 

[Bogard]

Then, we have to agee to disagree.

In the last week's chapter, we saw how Amaterasu instantly ignites where the user aims at; the user isn't even able to react (unless you are on a level with Juubi Jins, who even react at Minato's FTG). Amaterasu was used as fast by Itachi and Sasuke with EMS and MS only.

2. Even if he covers himself completely with hair, the flames will cover him completely. And I don't believe that his technique will allow him to grow his hair so he can shed the burned part. This is not how this technique is intended to work. It is portrayed as a Ninjutsu allowing Jiraiya to stretch his hair. Nothing more.

So as we can't agree again, we should leave here.

I guess we'll agree to disagree then, but just a point

Amaterasu appeared around A's location even before he actually dodged it

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Ay didn't dodge Amaterasu before it appeared on him on the panel. He dodged it after it appeared

It shows there is a formation time that allows speedsters like Ay to evade it before it completely takes them. You can't talk to me about latest chapters by using the example of someone who doesn't bother dodging considering she knows she possess the ability to absorb any ninjutsu

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

- You seem to love using the Needle Jizo argument so much that I forgot you know little to nothing about it! Silly me. Since you weren't already aware, let me dumb it down for you even more. When Jiraiya activates Needle Jizo it automatically both hardens and sharpens his hair into a blade-like fashion in order to serve as both an offense and defense. Believe it or not, there's a reason Jiraiya named the technique NEEDLE Jizo. As for Amaterasu, according to you, NOT being able to burn through Jiraiya's HAIR? Holy lord, save me now. Sasuke's Amaterasu not burning through Ay's arm, not burning through Nagato quickly, and not burning through the samurai's armor is contributed to one thing: they didn't focus their Amaterasu. Here, since it's a 1v1, Itachi will focus it instead of having to worry about fighting other shinobi. It'll easily render his hair to ash.

- Summons are useless at this point. Itachi'll slaughter them all easily with either Ama or Sakegari.

- Itachi used it the second he broke out of Edo Tensei.

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Quite literally, it was his first attack. I don't see why he wouldn't do it here. Besides, the difference is that Jiraiya hasn't actually used Kage Bunshins AT ALL in a major fight. You are, again, taking things that OTHER people have used and automatically contributing it to Jiraiya. Not that it matters. A single exploding clone takes care of the rest of Jiraiya's clones. They're useless. Even if an exploding clone doesn't work, Itachi can trace Amaterasu to get rid of them like this, nailing the real one hiding in the midst of the fakes.

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Itachi used it during a fight even while he was purposely throwing the fight, and when he used it it was against a mere Katon. Him using it against Jiraiya, knowing his reputation as a Sannin, is not far-fetched at all; rather, it is most likely.

- Itachi's crow flies (obviously), and Jiraiya isn't going to be in the dust. Even if he does, again, Itachi can simply jump out of it via Shunshin. Yeah, he can sense it coming and when he does he'll respond with his own Katon like you said he would. When he does this he'll only end up helping clear the dust.

- Jiraiya only uses his barrier against people who are invisible. That's why he used it against Pain. Besides, how the hell does sensing where a person is mean that he can out run Itachi? Df?

- Yeah, they won't, unless they're full of chakra to the point of where it confuses Itachi's eyesight. Otherwise, Itachi sees right through it and sees Jiraiya's chakra and attacks from there.


As well as possessing slow reaction time, no speed feats, and inferior agility in combination with the fact that he has no real, feasable counter to Amaterasu, Jiraiya has nothing that can put Itachi down for good. Saying Jiraiya is going to counter this with Bunshins is utterly retarded because absolutely ANYONE can counter ANYTHING using shadow clones. To make this situation worse, Jiraiya never even uses shadow clones! This is grasping at straws. Jiraiya using a barrier intended for invisible opponents against a clearly visible Itachi because he predicted before the fight that Itachi's going to be too fast for him? That's likely Lol.

It would eventually burn through Jiraiya's hair, if allowed to remain there long enough to do so. Remember the samurai armor? Focus vs. unfocused Amaterasu is fanon, the only way to use Amaterasu is by focusing it.

Itachi wastes all of his chakra on summons and is running on empty against Jiraiya.

Yet Itachi didn't use Amaterasu against Naruto or Bee, despite being made to fight seriously. That was also Edo Itachi, living Itachi never resorted to Amaterasu right away.

And Itachi has never fought to kill anyone. So I suppose we're both assuming each participant will use whatever methods are necessary to win.
How powerful is Itachi's exploding clone? What's the range of the explosion? You might be giving it far too much credit.
Itachi won't know which on is the real one, and Jiraiya can avoid/seal it.

Then Jiraiya using clones and barriers against Itachi, knowing his reputation, is also a given.

Or helping to poof the dust out farther.

Jiraiya used Dome Method Formation because he had a reason to, and he'll have a reason to use it against Itachi too. In Base he can keep up with Itachi, in Sage Mode he'll out run him and/or out shunshin him. Remember, Sage Mode augments physical abilities and jutsus.

Sharingan can only see through things as the plot demands. Itachi couldn't see Kakashi hiding underground, nor could he see Sasuke beneath him.

Jiraiya handled Konan and Animal swiftly enough with his speed and reflexes. He also did well in Sage Mode, such as blitzing a variable football field. It's not Jiraiya's fault he has only had one real fight in the manga and Itachi has had a couple. There is Kishimoto's opinion though that Jiraiya has a 4.5 in speed, the same as characters like Kakashi, Sasuke, etc.
Jiraiya can seal Amaterasu, which you enjoy forgetting. Dodging, Clone feint, etc. are options too.
Even without Frog Song in this topic, any harmful jutsu because Itachi is not immortal and is squishy. Rasengan, Hair Needle Barrage, Wild Lion's Mane, Fire Bomb, Toad Oil Blast, Deep Fryer, War of Words, Underworld Swamp, Flattened Silhouette Manipulation, Food Cart Destroyer, Toad Gourd Prison, Toad Mouth Binding, etc. Hell, even just a Summoned Sword will do the trick. Itachi doesn't have any feasible counters to some of those.

I guess we'll agree to disagree then, but just a point

Amaterasu appeared around A's location even before he actually dodged it

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Ay didn't dodge Amaterasu before it appeared on him on the panel. He dodged it after it appeared

It shows there is a formation time that allows speedsters like Ay to evade it before it completely takes them. You can't talk to me about latest chapters by using the example of someone who doesn't bother dodging considering she knows she possess the ability to absorb any ninjutsu

What it appeared to show is that it's a fireball. What we saw was Amaterasu approaching Ei, and then him sidestepping it and flying past him to hit the samurai. Just like with Bee, he saw Amaterasu coming and used his tail to intercept it from hitting his head. And for the record, Bee's tails are nowhere near as fast as Ei. Sasuke also dodged it, and it was a fireball. All three instances showed that Amaterasu had momentum too, again showing that it's a fireball.

Think of Kamui, too. Deidara actually dodged Kamui, but it remained next to Deidara where Kakashi activated it, it didn't fly past Deidara.

 

[Bogard]

What it appeared to show is that it's a fireball. What we saw was Amaterasu approaching Ei, and then him sidestepping it and flying past him to hit the samurai. Just like with Bee, he saw Amaterasu coming and used his tail to intercept it from hitting his head. And for the record, Bee's tails are nowhere near as fast as Ei. Sasuke also dodged it, and it was a fireball. All three instances showed that Amaterasu had momentum too, again showing that it's a fireball.

Not really a fire ball. I'd say that like Kamui, Amaterasu is formed via a space-time void depending on where the user looks. From where it appears, it follows line-sight, but depending on the speed of the opponent he can react to the formation time of the jutsu