Part 2: Achieving peace

[guts2nevergiveup]

Awesome thread .

Thanks man, glad you liked it=D

 

[Behemoth55]

I'm still sticking to what I said in the thread though.

That's ok. ^^

Also, i'm sorry but I'm not sure I really understand your last paragraph. Are you saying that on top of referring to Samsara, the six paths also refers to the power that Hagoromo has? If so, I believe that it is just a way to name that power. Since hagoromo was known as the sage of six paths, I believe they are just simply referring to hagoromo's power as the power of the six paths and that it has no connection whatsoever to the fact that the six paths represent the six realms in the wheel of samsara.

That's what I thought too, but that's not right actually. If Sasuke would refer only to Hagoromos power/chakra he would declare it as:

"Rikudō Sennin no Chakra/Chakura"=Chakra of the Hermit of the Six Path's

but he said:

"Rikudō {no} Sennin Chakra"=Hermit Chakra of the Six Path's

The particel 'no' (の) shifts the translation of the phrase. The hermit chakra of the six path's is a new variation of chakra, I guess. The term "six path's" refers to more than Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

That's ok. ^^


That's what I thought too, but that's not right actually. If Sasuke would refer only to Hagoromos power/chakra he would declare it as:

"Rikudō Sennin no Chakra/Chakura"=Chakra of the Hermit of the Six Path's

but he said:

"Rikudō {no} Sennin Chakra"=Hermit Chakra of the Six Path's

The particel 'no' (の) shifts the translation of the phrase. The hermit chakra of the six path's is a new variation of chakra, I guess. The term "six path's" refers to more than Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki.

Interesting. If you don't mind me asking(since you seem like an insightful person haha), what do you think is special about the hermit chakra of the six path's? Also, do you think he was the only one with such chakra or did kaguya and his brother have the same chakra?

 

[Behemoth55]

Interesting. If you don't mind me asking(since you seem like an insightful person haha), what do you think is special about the hermit chakra of the six path's? Also, do you think he was the only one with such chakra or did kaguya and his brother have the same chakra?

I think, it's the strongest form of chakra and it contains also nature energy-as the name implies it. But even Madara can't touch his other self from the Limbo/Rinbo-dimension. That means not even Jūbi has these kind of chakra, because Madara uses its chakra, right? Yes, there is something really special about it.

Hagoromo, Kaguya, Hagromos brother, Naruto and Sasuke they all have one similaritie~they got their chakra from the original Shinju, the origin of all chakra. Maybe that's why it's special. The god-tree we have seen in this war is just a fragment of the original tree.

Original Shinju=>Kaguya(due to the fruit)=>Hagoromo/brother(born with that chakra inside their body)=>Naruto/Sasuke

The usual concept of chakra is=physical energy+spiritual energy=chakra

However, that doesn't count for Kaguya, Hagoromo, Naruto and Sasuke anymore.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

I think, it's the strongest form of chakra and it contains also nature energy-as the name implies it. But even Madara can't touch his other self from the Limbo/Rinbo-dimension. That means not even Jūbi has these kind of chakra, because Madara uses its chakra, right? Yes, there is something really special about it.

Hagoromo, Kaguya, Hagromos brother, Naruto and Sasuke they all have one similaritie~they got their chakra from the original Shinju, the origin of all chakra. Maybe that's why it's special. The god-tree we have seen in this war is just a fragment of the original tree.

Original Shinju=>Kaguya(due to the fruit)=>Hagoromo/brother(born with that chakra inside their body)=>Naruto/Sasuke

The usual concept of chakra is=physical energy+spiritual energy=chakra

However, that doesn't count for Kaguya, Hagoromo, Naruto and Sasuke anymore.

Also very interesting. You mentioned kaguya as having chakra that comes straight from the original shinju but my belief is that she has become one with the jubi and madara.

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Also, madara states that he has both Naruto and Sasuke's power

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My point is, I think madara also has that chakra, what do you think about that?

 

[Behemoth55]

Also very interesting. You mentioned kaguya as having chakra that comes straight from the original shinju but my belief is that she has become one with the jubi and madara.

But that happened after she had ate the fruit of the holy true and after she achieved the power to stop the war. In my opinion Jūbi absorbed Kaguya's body, but not her chakra, otherwise Jūbi would be complete.

Jūbi+Fruit=original Shinju

Now she exists in Jūbi/Madara. Yeah, I think so too. She will be the last antagonist in my opinion. However, maybe she even needs a new body like Hinata?

Also, madara states that he has both Naruto and Sasuke's power

My point is, I think madara also has that chakra, what do you think about that?

Madara said he has the Rinnegan and Senjutsu of the six path's{Gudōdama} like Naruto and Sasuke, but didn't refer to the chakra itself. He even asked why Sasuke and Naruto could see/sense his other self. No one in this world should be able to do that-according to Madara.
Madaras origin of his power is Jūbi, but in Narutos and Sasukes case it's the hermit chakra of the six path's. There is a difference, because even Madara can't harm/sense the shadow-Madara.

 

[God Of Destruction]

Amazing bro.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

But that happened after she had ate the fruit of the holy true and after she achieved the power to stop the war. In my opinion Jūbi absorbed Kaguya's body, but not her chakra, otherwise Jūbi would be complete.

Jūbi+Fruit=original Shinju

Now she exists in Jūbi/Madara. Yeah, I think so too. She will be the last antagonist in my opinion. However, maybe she even needs a new body like Hinata?



Madara said he has the Rinnegan and Senjutsu of the six path's{Gudōdama} like Naruto and Sasuke, but didn't refer to the chakra itself. He even asked why Sasuke and Naruto could see/sense his other self. No one in this world should be able to do that-according to Madara.
Madaras origin of his power is Jūbi, but in Narutos and Sasukes case it's the hermit chakra of the six path's. There is a difference, because even Madara can't harm/sense the shadow-Madara.

Good stuff. I see your point. I also think she will be the last antagonist. Maybe as herself, or in the form of someone else like madara or maybe hinata like you said lol. I don't understand how the jubi could absorb her body but not her chakra cause as we have seen during this war, the god tree/ jubi that his present, completely absorbed the chakra of people. I'm sure you have an reason behind what you said so how do you think that the jubi absorbed her body and not her chakra?

Regarding madara, I think he was saying that no one except him could see it. That would be my only explanation as to how he knows that it is "his clone from the invisible world" as it is stated in the manga panda translation.

 

[Behemoth55]

I don't understand how the jubi could absorb her body but not her chakra cause as we have seen during this war, the god tree/ jubi that his present, completely absorbed the chakra of people. I'm sure you have an reason behind what you said so how do you think that the jubi absorbed her body and not her chakra?

The reason why I think Jūbi coudn't absorb her chakra is that it didn't change its form.
The origin of all chakra is the holy tree, which yield a fruit that's made of chakra.

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After Kaguya had ate the fruit and achieved the "holy power" she could rule over this land. Then, the remaining chakra of the Shinju changed into the Jūbi.

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I'm sure there has to be a reason why Kaguya didn't defeat Jūbi simply. Maybe it could absorb her like Majin Buu did it with Gohan? ;D
But one thing for sure~Kaguya was the strongest, stronger than Hagoromo and stronger than Jūbi. If Jūbi would absorb her chakra, the chakra of the fruit, it would change into the complete Shinju again.
However, that's not the case. Hagoromo and his brother fought with Jūbi.

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In short: Jūbi can't have Kaguyas chakra because it didn't change into the complete form. Even Obitos creation wasn't the complete Shinju, that's why it had to absorb the chakra of the alliance, but even that wasn't enough.

Regarding madara, I think he was saying that no one except him could see it. That would be my only explanation as to how he knows that it is "his clone from the invisible world" as it is stated in the manga panda translation.

In this case Madara woudn't say that no one in this world should be able to see/sense his other self(that statement includes himself too). And he coudn't believe at first that Sasuke and Naruto could do that.
Also, we should consider that Madara has gotten the knowledge about the Rinnegan(with certainty) from Hagoromos stone tablet. Actually there is also no explanation how Madara could knew anything about the Rinnegans Rikudō no Jutsu, but he could taught them Obito after all(chapter 606).

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

great read dude

this is amazing thread

1+ Rep =)

 

[davidou]

In short: Jūbi can't have Kaguyas chakra because it didn't change into the complete form. Even Obitos creation wasn't the complete Shinju, that's why it had to absorb the chakra of the alliance, but even that wasn't enough.

Kaguya is the strongest but Hagoromo is very strong , his brother may be too.
Kaguya could have used a great part of her power (including the power of the fruit) , to use creation of all things to create her powerfull twins.

That may be why Shinju isn't complete , it lacks the rikudou brothers part of its "chakra/power"(Shinobi Alliance chakra).

 

[Honord Sage]

Buda Was from India the hole believe in reincarnation is a punishment for Bad Karma accumulated in life. The ideal state is to never be reincarnated so that you do not have bad karma and you can become one with all things. That why You pray and try to lead a Saintly live. The worst your karma is you could come back as someones food like a chi keen thats way in India Cows are Holly it might be your Mother,Father or other relative.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

great read dude

this is amazing thread

1+ Rep =)

Thanks a lot man=D

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

The reason why I think Jūbi coudn't absorb her chakra is that it didn't change its form.
The origin of all chakra is the holy tree, which yield a fruit that's made of chakra.

You must be registered for see links

After Kaguya had ate the fruit and achieved the "holy power" she could rule over this land. Then, the remaining chakra of the Shinju changed into the Jūbi.

You must be registered for see links

I'm sure there has to be a reason why Kaguya didn't defeat Jūbi simply. Maybe it could absorb her like Majin Buu did it with Gohan? ;D
But one thing for sure~Kaguya was the strongest, stronger than Hagoromo and stronger than Jūbi. If Jūbi would absorb her chakra, the chakra of the fruit, it would change into the complete Shinju again.
However, that's not the case. Hagoromo and his brother fought with Jūbi.

You must be registered for see links

In short: Jūbi can't have Kaguyas chakra because it didn't change into the complete form. Even Obitos creation wasn't the complete Shinju, that's why it had to absorb the chakra of the alliance, but even that wasn't enough.



In this case Madara woudn't say that no one in this world should be able to see/sense his other self(that statement includes himself too). And he coudn't believe at first that Sasuke and Naruto could do that.
Also, we should consider that Madara has gotten the knowledge about the Rinnegan(with certainty) from Hagoromos stone tablet. Actually there is also no explanation how Madara could knew anything about the Rinnegans Rikudō no Jutsu, but he could taught them Obito after all(chapter 606).

first, it's still weird to me how madara knows so much about the rinnegan techniques but whatever, I will go with what you said.

Second, We know so little about kaguya and what happened to her that it is hard to predict anything, but you have a very logical hypothesis and you back it up well, good job.
I'm not gonna act like I know what happened cause I don't lol but i'm gonna try to make an educated guess, going off of what you said.

I think that when she ate the fruit, she did it to bring peace and she tried to rule over the land to bring peace to world, by herself. As we have learned many times from the manga, that is not the way to do it.

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People started to fear her and didn't accept what was going on. That peace was just an illusion like the peace that pein was trying to establish. Imo, she couldn't accept that and the fruit had driven her mad so she continued to impose her rule.

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As a result, Hagoromo and his brother had to fight her first and somehow they managed to separate her spirit/chakra from her body. The jubi was pissed this whole time because his chakra was being distributed like you said, and he tried to absorb kaguya and her chakra but it was too late so he only absorbed her body. Then the jubi attacked hagoromo and his brother and that his when they took care of him. I think this would explain how kaguya became both the jubi and the reaper dath seal. Her body is within the jubi while her chakra/spirit became the RDS. You could say that she was a shell of herself just like the jubi was a shell of himself when it was sealed in the moon.

Now there is the parallel between her and madara since they are both trying to accomplish the same thing.

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Both trying to become one by getting all that power and both trying to control the world themselves to put in place what they believe will be an eternal peace. This time it will be Naruto and sasuke that take care of it.

What do you think about that?

 

[Behemoth55]

first, it's still weird to me how madara knows so much about the rinnegan techniques but whatever, I will go with what you said.

Second, We know so little about kaguya and what happened to her that it is hard to predict anything, but you have a very logical hypothesis and you back it up well, good job.
I'm not gonna act like I know what happened cause I don't lol but i'm gonna try to make an educated guess, going off of what you said.

I think that when she ate the fruit, she did it to bring peace and she tried to rule over the land to bring peace to world, by herself. As we have learned many times from the manga, that is not the way to do it.

You must be registered for see links

People started to fear her and didn't accept what was going on. That peace was just an illusion like the peace that pein was trying to establish. Imo, she couldn't accept that and the fruit had driven her mad so she continued to impose her rule.

You must be registered for see links

As a result, Hagoromo and his brother had to fight her first and somehow they managed to separate her spirit/chakra from her body. The jubi was pissed this whole time because his chakra was being distributed like you said, and he tried to absorb kaguya and her chakra but it was too late so he only absorbed her body. Then the jubi attacked hagoromo and his brother and that his when they took care of him. I think this would explain how kaguya became both the jubi and the reaper dath seal. Her body is within the jubi while her chakra/spirit became the RDS. You could say that she was a shell of herself just like the jubi was a shell of himself when it was sealed in the moon.

Now there is the parallel between her and madara since they are both trying to accomplish the same thing.

You must be registered for see links

Both trying to become one by getting all that power and both trying to control the world themselves to put in place what they believe will be an eternal peace. This time it will be Naruto and sasuke that take care of it.

What do you think about that?

Great! You should make a fanfiction or your own manga about it. ^3^
But there are two things I don't understand now:

1. Woudn't have Hagormo said that he fought with his mother?
2. If Kaguyas chakra and body have been seperated, why should her chakra became a Fuin-Jutsu like Shiki Fūjin anyway? Is there a relation? And if Kaguyas spirit is gone, how could she talk with Madara then?

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

Great! You should make a fanfiction or your own manga about it. ^3^
But there are two things I don't understand now:

1. Woudn't have Hagormo said that he fought with his mother?
2. If Kaguyas chakra and body have been seperated, why should her chakra became a Fuin-Jutsu like Shiki Fūjin anyway? Is there a relation? And if Kaguyas spirit is gone, how could she talk with Madara then?

Thank you.

And yeah those are some good questions that I thought about haha.
1. Maybe he thought that the threat was the jubi and that kaguya's body doesn't have much to do with it. Or maybe he wanted to hide what happened to his mother.
2. Maybe hagoromo or his brother, used some kind of justu(maybe a sealing justu) and since her chakra was so powerful that happened.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

Excellent Thread, but humanity must first free themselves from the Outer Path heresy: the power of Chakra. Then true peace can be achieved.

Interesting.

Thanks for reading and for the compliment!

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

Kaguya is the strongest but Hagoromo is very strong , his brother may be too.
Kaguya could have used a great part of her power (including the power of the fruit) , to use creation of all things to create her powerfull twins.

That may be why Shinju isn't complete , it lacks the rikudou brothers part of its "chakra/power"(Shinobi Alliance chakra).

Ya why not. I don't think that's the case but who knows

 

[GhostProject]

Pretty epic thread guts! I'm not extremely knowledgeable on the specifics of Buddhism, but these seem like excellent connections with a lot of research backing it up.

Once again, great analysis =D

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

Pretty epic thread guts! I'm not extremely knowledgeable on the specifics of Buddhism, but these seem like excellent connections with a lot of research backing it up.

Once again, great analysis =D

Thanks a lot ghost! I tried my best haha. The research took forever and it took even longer to put it all together and make it as coherent as possible, but it was worth it.=D