Looked at Hiruzen's DB score.

[assface3]

Too bad Prime Hiruzen is fanfic.

 

[Untamed]

the highest a stat can go is 5 so who knows how much higher an actual stat is of a character which could be as high as 8/10.
Well he should be pretty strong to be trained by Hashi/Tobirama . For example of my first sentence, Hiruzen/Itachi's genjutsu stats were 5 , but in potential/talent/or actual ability & potency Hiruzen's could be stuck at 5 while Itachi's could be as high 8 or 9. Most likely. Hiruzen can defend against of level 5 genjutsu , but he cannot cast one .

 

[ComplexCity]

I don't troll. All I've done until now is state facts and my own comprehensions. Calling me a troll when you are debunked or emotionally shooken holds no objectivity and does not strengthen your argument.



You are incredibly biased. You have ignored all the feats I stated before finally admitting one was a feat and then twisting your words to say someone else's feat "was better" when the thread wasn't even about them. And during all of this, subjectively stating with no validation whatsoever that Hiruzen "is a fodder" over and over. You need a new routine.



I provided nine or ten feats. It is not my problem when you intentionally either ignore them or comprehend them differently.



1) fought on par with Orochimaru
Who was toying

2) disarmed orochimaru
Because he was toying

3) Overcame Hashirama's genjutsu
Ok?
4) Overcame Hashirama's mokuton
It has been proven that his staff > Mokuton. A feat, still doesn't make him greater than Hashi

5) mastered all the clans of Konoha's jutsus
Yet has never used any in the manga, even in the midst of war. Also contradictory, as he has cannot use Sussano, Jyuken, Tsukuyomi and etc

6) Sealed Orochimaru's hands which ultimately led to his defeat twice
Which means Hiruzen lost to Oro, who was toying because he sacrificed his life to seal his.... hands. Wonderful feat


7) Routed Orochimaru and all the sand and sound shinobi
Wow

8) taught the three sannin
Kakashi taught Naruto and Sasuke, arguably the two most powerful shinboi ATM, your point?

9) brought a fifty year peace to Konoha
Don't see how this makes him top 20

10) preserved Konoha's power
11) became Hokage when he was a teenager
Same as above
12) defeated the edo hokages and sealed them to not be used again
First of all, this is wrong because they're in the war now... You also forgot to mention that they were mindless killing machines, not using anywhere near any of their full arsenal, on top of that, were not even near full power which is proven by Tobria's statement the 2nd time they were brought back

13) endured the Shinju's power
Ok?
14) found out the properties of the gudou damas
A feat of observation, which was already proven with his fight with Oro, still doesn't make him top 20

15) saved Naruto from the Shinju
Won't even respond to this

16) saved the alliance from the buddha statue
A feat that still doesn't make him top 20

Your turn again.



Top ten is subjective as is anyone else who agrees with you or me.



I do.



Post scans of Hashirama and Kakashi using all the leaf jutsus. Calling me a fapboy doesn't support your objectivity or standpoint either.

1. Judging by your other post I can infer that you are a troll

2. Guess I should have chose my wording better. Compared to the top 20, Hiruzen is a fodder

3. Your feats do not giving him acess to the top 10 along with top 20. I don't know why you fapboys just think you can post a manga feat (something even all of K11 has and some aren't in the top 20), that qualifies him a spot for top 10

5. Top 10 with manga feats backing up the rankings isn't subjective
Feats = Facts
Facts = Truth


6. Well unbeknownst to you, not everyone characters statements should be taken literal, or do I need to post contradicted dialogue stated by some characters?

7. Did I claim that Kakashi can use every jutsu in the leaf? No I didn't you fapboys are making these ludicrous claims, then circumnavigate from the argument when you're asked for manga feats.

 

[Kiro1]

I'm a believer of Prime Hiruzen but these kinds of threads just make me laugh, anyway nice thread

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

Prime Fodderuzen doesn't exist.

You can show DB scores, hype whatever you want. He doesn't have any decent feats to be even in top 15.

You're right, Prime Fodderuzen doesn't exist, because Fodderuzen is fanfiction. Prime Hiruzen is very real.

the highest a stat can go is 5 so who knows how much higher an actual stat is of a character which could be as high as 8/10.
Well he should be pretty strong to be trained by Hashi/Tobirama . For example of my first sentence, Hiruzen/Itachi's genjutsu stats were 5 , but in potential/talent/or actual ability & potency Hiruzen's could be stuck at 5 while Itachi's could be as high 8 or 9. Most likely. Hiruzen can defend against of level 5 genjutsu , but he cannot cast one .

The genjutsu stat measures skill and proficiency at using genjutsu, not defending, and the stat goes up to 5. If he weren't as good as Itachi then he wouldn't had received a 5, but they both did, because they share comparable skill and proficiency in that area.

 

[assface3]

You're right, Prime Fodderuzen doesn't exist, because Fodderuzen is fanfiction. Prime Hiruzen is very real.

The wank is very real as well.

 

[Flakez]

You're right, Prime Fodderuzen doesn't exist, because Fodderuzen is fanfiction. Prime Hiruzen is very real.

He's real in the minds of the fapboys.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

The wank is very real as well.

And justifiably so.

He's real in the minds of the fapboys.

And in Kishimoto's writing.

Hiruzen > Tobirama
Hiruzen > Ei
Hiruzen > Onoki
Hiruzen > Yagura
Hiruzen > Gaara Sr.
Hiruzen > Orochimaru
Hiruzen > Danzo
Hiruzen > Minato

He inherited the title of "God of Shinobi" for a reason.

 

[assface3]

And justifiably so.

Fanfic ≠ justification.

 

[Trollasaur]

1. Judging by your other post I can infer that you are a troll

2. Guess I should have chose my wording better. Compared to the top 20, Hiruzen is a fodder

3. Your feats do not giving him acess to the top 10 along with top 20. I don't know why you fapboys just think you can post a manga feat (something even all of K11 has and some aren't in the top 20), that qualifies him a spot for top 10

5. Top 10 with manga feats backing up the rankings isn't subjective
Feats = Facts
Facts = Truth


6. Well unbeknownst to you, not everyone characters statements should be taken literal, or do I need to post contradicted dialogue stated by some characters?

7. Did I claim that Kakashi can use every jutsu in the leaf? No I didn't you fapboys are making these ludicrous claims, then circumnavigate from the argument when you're asked for manga feats.

Please tell me 20 people stronger than Hiruzen..

He took on the buddah, the whole shinobi alliance couldnt do that

 

[CloudWalker]

Some people are so ignorant my friend, that they will deny the cold hard facts in front of them!

Hiruzen is unstoppable! Believe in the Hype! Long Live Rikuzen! (Hiruzen 5 Leggo)

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[ComplexCity]

Please tell me 20 people stronger than Hiruzen..

He took on the buddah, the whole shinobi alliance couldnt do that

I'm not wasting my time with trolls anymore. Go read the manga U_U

 

[SkyGodHorus]

Who was toying

Incorrect. This was a battle to the death. They went at it with their sword and staff and Hiruzen disarmed Orochimaru, caught him , sealed his summons and took his hands with the RDS.

Ok?

I'm glad you understand.

4) Overcame Hashirama's mokuton
It has been proven that his staff > Mokuton.

Thank you for conceding.

5) mastered all the clans of Konoha's jutsus
Yet has never used any in the manga, even in the midst of war. Also contradictory, as he has cannot use Sussano, Jyuken, Tsukuyomi and etc

Jutsus are not the same as Kekkei Genkis.

Which means Hiruzen lost to Oro, who was toying because he sacrificed his life to seal his.... hands. Wonderful feat

Considering he was up against three kage level opponents and routed them all, yes it was. Madara was beaten over and over by Hashirama and was forced to steal his chakra and cells to become stronger while Tobirama and Hashirama were killed prematurely, one by cloud shinobi. Wonderful feat.

Wow

Thank you for conceding.

Kakashi taught Naruto and Sasuke, arguably the two most powerful shinboi ATM, your point?

Jiraiya, Orochimaru and Tsunade taught the three main characters and Tsunade became Hokage. That's my point.

Don't see how this makes him top 20

I'm not talking about a subjective top twenty or ten list. I'm talking about the feats of a character.

And again, thank you for conceding.

Same as above

Thank you for conceding.

First of all, this is wrong because they're in the war now...

You wanted feats and I'm giving them to you. My apologies if I don't forget or ignore things like you.

You also forgot to mention that they were mindless killing machines,

Being controlled by Orochimaru who had a brain and using their kages level techniques, or would you like me to whip up some scans?

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not using anywhere near any of their full arsenal, on top of that, were not even near full power which is proven by Tobria's statement the 2nd time they were brought back

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13) endured the Shinju's power
Ok?

Thank you for conceding.

14) found out the properties of the gudou damas
A feat of observation, which was already proven with his fight with Oro, still doesn't make him top 20

This isn't a top subjective top twenty argument. This is a feat debate and no one else had the power or techniques to counter the statue. He had all the elements, experience, power and technique to perform them.

15) saved Naruto from the Shinju
Won't even respond to this

Thank you for conceding.

16) saved the alliance from the buddha statue
A feat that still doesn't make him top 20

This isn't a top twenty argument. It's a feat debate.

And thank you for conceding.

1. Judging by your other post I can infer that you are a troll

Judging by all your posts, I have proved you are biased, subjective, off-topic and invalid.

2. Guess I should have chose my wording better. Compared to the top 20, Hiruzen is a fodder

An invalid statement.

3. Your feats do not giving him acess to the top 10 along with top 20.

Ton Ten and twenty are subjective and have nothing to do with this debate.

I don't know why you fapboys just think you can post a manga feat (something even all of K11 has and some aren't in the top 20), that qualifies him a spot for top 10

I should say the same for someone who believes they can just ignore a feat whenever they want, insult people who debunk them and go off-topic and make invalid, subjective generalizations about top ten and twenty nonsense that has nothing to do with it.

5. Top 10 with manga feats backing up the rankings isn't subjects

You haven't even demonstrated this top ten or whatever you are talking about. You're right, it's not subjective. It's completely invalid, pointless and baseless.

6. Well unbeknownst to you, not everyone characters statements should be taken literal,

I never stated all characters statements should. I was going by Orochimaru's statement, someone who was his student, who knows him, studied up on him and prepared to fight him. That is all.

or do I need to post contradicted dialogue stated by some characters?

Considering it would likely be a different context, no.

7. Did I claim that Kakashi can use every jutsu in the leaf? No I didn't you fapboys are making these ludicrous claims, then circumnavigate from the argument when you're asked for manga feats.

At least I state feats and stick to the character and subject rather than insulting members and going on and on about invalidated top twenty nonsense that has nothing to do with the argument.

 

[Vega]

Prime Hiruzen's databook score would be a perfect 40 displaying his versatile/all-rounded capabilities.

 

[Trollasaur]

I'm not wasting my time with trolls anymore. Go read the manga U_U

Here I'll give you a top ten.

1.Madara
2.Kaguya
3.Hagamoro
4.Obito
5.Guy
6.Naruto/Sauskeccor Ashura/Indra
7.Ashura/Indra or Naruo/Sauske
8.Kabuto
9.Orchimaru
10.Hashirama

Provide 10 more stronger than Hiruzen, Hiruzen(with fears) is around top 20 imo

 

[ComplexCity]

Incorrect. This was a battle to the death. They went at it with their sword and staff and Hiruzen disarmed Orochimaru, caught him , sealed his summons and took his hands with the RDS.



I'm glad you understand.



Thank you for conceding.



Jutsus are not the same as Kekkei Genkis.



Considering he was up against three kage level opponents and routed them all, yes it was. Madara was beaten over and over by Hashirama and was forced to steal his chakra and cells to become stronger while Tobirama and Hashirama were killed prematurely, one by cloud shinobi. Wonderful feat.



Thank you for conceding.



Jiraiya, Orochimaru and Tsunade taught the three main characters and Tsunade became Hokage. That's my point.



I'm not talking about a subjective top twenty or ten list. I'm talking about the feats of a character.

And again, thank you for conceding.



Thank you for conceding.



You wanted feats and I'm giving them to you. My apologies if I don't forget or ignore things like you.



Being controlled by Orochimaru who had a brain and using their kages level techniques, or would you like me to whip up some scans?

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Thank you for conceding.



This isn't a top subjective top twenty argument. This is a feat debate and no one else had the power or techniques to counter the statue. He had all the elements, experience, power and technique to perform them.



Thank you for conceding.



This isn't a top twenty argument. It's a feat debate.

And thank you for conceding.



Judging by all your posts, I have proved you are biased, subjective, off-topic and invalid.



An invalid statement.



Ton Ten and twenty are subjective and have nothing to do with this debate.



I should say the same for someone who believes they can just ignore a feat whenever they want, insult people who debunk them and go off-topic and make invalid, subjective generalizations about top ten and twenty nonsense that has nothing to do with it.



You haven't even demonstrated this top ten or whatever you are talking about. You're right, it's not subjective. It's completely invalid, pointless and baseless.



I never stated all characters statements should. I was going by Orochimaru's statement, someone who was his student, who knows him, studied up on him and prepared to fight him. That is all.



Considering it would likely be a different context, no.



At least I state feats and stick to the character and subject rather than insulting members and going on and on about invalidated top twenty nonsense that has nothing to do with the argument.

Listen bruh, I'm not going to waste my time with someone who can't name a jutsu that can beat Hashi's Buddah, when you do, then I will debate with you properly. Until then, I'm not wasting my time, not wasting my time on trolls anymore.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

Listen bruh, I'm not going to waste my time with someone who can't name a jutsu that can beat Hashi's Buddah, when you do, then I will debate with you properly. Until then, I'm not wasting my time, not wasting my time on trolls anymore.

I am neither your "bruh" nor a "troll." And you couldn't debate properly even if you wanted to.

 

[ComplexCity]

I am neither your "bruh" nor a "troll." And you couldn't debate properly even if you wanted to.

You can't post a scan stating how Hiruzen can beat a full powered Hashi

You are a troll, which is why I'm not wasting my time debating

 

[assface3]

I am neither your "bruh" nor a "troll." And you couldn't debate properly even if you wanted to.

Only a dumbass debates with trolls.

 

[Jimihendrix]

if kishimoto says in his prime he is the best, then that means that in his prime he's the best

get over yourselves. Kishi doesn't need to give you feats to justify his story--exactly how important are your opinions to kishi that he'd cater to your whining, just to satisfy you in hypothetical "vs threads"
/thread

argue against this crybabies, I dare you