EMS is NOT borrowed power

[Stark]

Then it's given powered or taken power. Many people call Kurama borrowed power but thanks to your post with the definition of Borrow, same goes for Naruto since Kurama gave Naruto his chakra just like Itachi gave his eyes to Sasuke. Or you can say Sasuke took Itachi's eyes as well since Itachi didn't out right gave them to Sasuke as Shisui did with Itachi. but you can say Naruto took Kurama's chakra when he gain KM as well. I only brought Naruto up because fanboys for boy tend to use borrowed power for both sides.

The eyes were a dead mans, Sasuke owns the eyes, they fused with his own occular powers therefore making them his and his alone. They are borrowed so is he gonna lend his eyes out? Or give them back to a corpse? No, Naruto borrows the 9 Tails power, it isn't his power, the Kyuubi does not belong to Naruto. Kurama is a immortal being and when Naruto dies he will most likely take another host.

 

[TrollKing]

that's obvious that the power is Sasuke's.

Naruto fans trying to say ems are itachi's power, I think they believe itachi gave sasuke enton and ps. If sasuke awaken rinnegan, they might say itachi has rinnegan power

 

[-ahhimane-]

Naruto fans trying to say ems are itachi's power, I think they believe itachi gave sasuke enton and ps. If sasuke awaken rinnegan, they might say itachi has rinnegan

Lol, that's laughable.
It's true that EMS is power because of Itachi's eyes. But those eyes enhanced Sasuke's MS powers.
But I haven't seen anyone around saying that to such troll-level.

 

[xxSAGExx]

The eyes were a dead mans, Sasuke owns the eyes, they fused with his own occular powers therefore making them his and his alone. They are borrowed so is he gonna lend his eyes out? Or give them back to a corpse? No, Naruto borrows the 9 Tails power, it isn't his power, the Kyuubi does not belong to Naruto. Kurama is a immortal being and when Naruto dies he will most likely take another host.

Wrong, Sasuke does not own Itachi's body, alive or dead. Just because it's his brother doesn't mean it's his. Itachi was his own person and it's his eyes. Sasuke took those eyes which combined with his power and the result was the EMS, this was not made by Sasuke's power alone but along with Itachi's. Kurama gave Naruto power, as OT described what borrow means, Naruto doesn't return this chakra since he uses it up in his jutsus so how can he return it if he uses it? Borrow means you intend to give back, can't give the chakra back when it's used up.

Itachi eyes doesn't belong to Sasuke either, just like how Kurama is his own living being, Itachi is his own person as well. Both gave their powers to those they wanted. Sasuke and Naruto were give power or took power for themselves. In fact, Obito was the one who had Itachi's eyes and gave them to Sasuke when Sasuke wanted them, after Itachi died, Sasuke blacked out so either way, he wouldn't have had them since Kakashi and Yamato's group would have taken Sasuke if Obito didn't and we don't know if they would have taken Itachi's body, buried it and destroy it since they didn't know the truth about Itachi at that time.

What does Kurama say to Naruto? "If you want me to lend you my power,...."

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Lend means to: (V) give temporarily. (V) bestow a quality on. (v) have certain characteristic of qualities for something. No chakra is temporary since once you use it, it's up and you have to mold more chakra. Naruto is given chakra, he doesn't borrow it; same with Sasuke's eyes, he was given Itachi's eyes, he's not borrowing them nor did he attain his power on his own.

 

[TrollKing]

Wrong, Sasuke does not own Itachi's body, alive or dead. Just because it's his brother doesn't mean it's his. Itachi was his own person and it's his eyes. Sasuke took those eyes which combined with his power and the result was the EMS, this was not made by Sasuke's power alone but along with Itachi's. Kurama gave Naruto power, as OT described what borrow means, Naruto doesn't return this chakra since he uses it up in his jutsus so how can he return it if he uses it? Borrow means you intend to give back, can't give the chakra back when it's used up.

Itachi eyes doesn't belong to Sasuke either, just like how Kurama is his own living being, Itachi is his own person as well. Both gave their powers to those they wanted. Sasuke and Naruto were give power or took power for themselves. In fact, Obito was the one who had Itachi's eyes and gave them to Sasuke when Sasuke wanted them, after Itachi died, Sasuke blacked out so either way, he wouldn't have had them since Kakashi and Yamato's group would have taken Sasuke if Obito didn't and we don't know if they would have taken Itachi's body, buried it and destroy it since they didn't know the truth about Itachi at that time.

What does Kurama say to Naruto? "If you want me to lend you my power,...."

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Lend means to: (V) give temporarily. (V) bestow a quality on. (v) have certain characteristic of qualities for something. No chakra is temporary since once you use it, it's up and you have to mold more chakra. Naruto is given chakra, he doesn't borrow it; same with Sasuke's eyes, he was given Itachi's eyes, he's not borrowing them nor did he attain his power on his own.

Then name 1 of itachi's power given to ems sasuke

 

[xxSAGExx]

Then name 1 of itachi's power given to ems sasuke

Amaterasu, show me another Uchiha using it but Itachi? Itachi already gave Sasuke Amaterasu before Sasuke awaken his MS

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. Itachi implanted it into Sasuke

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, equipped Sasuke with it

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. Also if you read then you know it's MS+MS=EMS Sasuke's power combines with Itachi's powers to form the EMS power. Each MS have a different shape with different set of jutsus, rather or not brothers can have same jutsus is unknown since only Madara and Izuna are another example and we don't know their MS jutsus so saying brothers can have is just speculations since we have yet to see two Uchihas awaken their own set of MS eyes with same powers, only know jutsu that seems to be obtainable by other Uchihas is Susanoo.

Read Sasuke's words here

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, Itachi's power is flowing into me...

 

[TrollKing]

Amaterasu, show me another Uchiha using it but Itachi? Itachi already gave Sasuke Amaterasu before Sasuke awaken his MS

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. Itachi implanted it into Sasuke

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, equipped Sasuke with it

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. Also if you read then you know it's MS+MS=EMS Sasuke's power combines with Itachi's powers to form the EMS power. Each MS have a different shape with different set of jutsus, rather or not brothers can have same jutsus is unknown since only Madara and Izuna are another example and we don't know their MS jutsus so saying brothers can have is just speculations since we have yet to see two Uchihas awaken their own set of MS eyes with same powers, only know jutsu that seems to be obtainable by other Uchihas is Susanoo.

Read Sasuke's words here

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, Itachi's power is flowing into me...

Since you believe sasuke's ms power belongs to itachi, so who gave itachi ms power?

Who gave obito ms power?

Who gave izuna ms power?

Who gave madara susanoo?

Who gave shisui ms power?

And where's tsukuyomi go?

And since you believe ms sasuke is using itachi power. Then there's no such thing as (sasuke ms power+itachi ms power=ems) like you said. You sounding more like (itachi ms power+itachi ms power=ems)

 

[xxSAGExx]

Since you believe sasuke's ms power belongs to itachi, so who gave itachi ms power?

Who gave obito ms power?

Who gave izuna ms power?

Who gave madara susanoo?

Who gave shisui ms power?

And where's tsukuyomi go?

Clearly you didn't read my post well, and it seems you're getting power and jutsus confused with each other. Try rereading the manga if that helps; What did Sasuke say? I can feel Itachi's power flowing into me

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if I was talking about jutsus then how the heck is Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Susanoo going to flow into Sasuke? You asked me to name a power Sasuke got from Itachi so I named Amaterasu. As I said in one of my other post, MS are all in different shape and all give a different set of jutsus to the MS user but since only Madara and Izuna are the only other brothers we know, it's unknown if brothers can awaken same jutsus fro the MS and to say so would be speculation.

I posted links where it's say Itachi gave Sasuke Amaterasu so Sasuke didn't awaken that power himself. Did a MS user implant a jutsu into Obito, Izuna, Madara or Shisui? No? Then don't bring up irrelevant things. Fact is MS+MS=EMS Sasuke's MS power combines with Itachi's, does this means Sasuke gains all of his MS jutsus? We don't know since it wasn't confirmed and we do know Itachi still have his Susanoo weapons since he used them as an Edo and they're actual weapons and not Susanoo bound so Itachi would have to actually hand Sasuke them to give him them.

The MS itself hold a lot of power, it's not just the jutsus it holds. It increases the Sharingan's beyond that of a 3 tomoe.

 

[-Spoiler-]

Ems=ms+eternal light(clearly stated in manga)

Unless you want to add itachi sword, mirror or tsukuyomi(aka "itachi's power")

Lol because Yata and Totsuka are Sharingan ablities .

 

[TrollKing]

Clearly you didn't read my post well, and it seems you're getting power and jutsus confused with each other. Try rereading the manga if that helps; What did Sasuke say? I can feel Itachi's power flowing into me

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if I was talking about jutsus then how the heck is Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Susanoo going to flow into Sasuke? You asked me to name a power Sasuke got from Itachi so I named Amaterasu. As I said in one of my other post, MS are all in different shape and all give a different set of jutsus to the MS user but since only Madara and Izuna are the only other brothers we know, it's unknown if brothers can awaken same jutsus fro the MS and to say so would be speculation.

I postinks where it's say Itachi gave Sasuke Amaterasu so Sasuke didn't awaken that power himself. Did a MS user implant a jutsu into Obito, Izuna, Madara or Shisui? No? Then don't bring up irrelevant things. Fact is MS+MS=EMS Sasuke's MS power combines with Itachi's, does this means Sasuke gains all of his MS jutsus? We don't know since it wasn't confirmed and we do know Itachi still have his Susanoo weapons since he used them as an Edo and they're actual weapons and not Susanoo bound so Itachi would have to actually hand Sasuke them to give him them.

The MS itself hold a lot of power, it's not just the jutsus it holds. It increases the Sharingan's beyond that of a 3 tomoe.

That was a seal, one time automatic jutsu like "Ka naruto". I'm not gonna argue over that as its really obvious

But according to you, ms is implanted or given like "ms sasuke". Then who gave itachi ms power or "jutsu" if you prefer?

And no sasuke didn't gain any tsukuyomi, it was confirmed by danzo, unlike what your scan said "sasuke got all itachi jutsu or power"

 

[TrollKing]

Lol because Yata and Totsuka are Sharingan ablities .

That's kool, lets add kamui and ka too

 

[-Spoiler-]

That's kool, lets add kamui and ka too

Sigh lel your stupid Those are sharingan abilities Totsuka and Yata are spiritual weapons.

 

[TrollKing]

Sigh lel your stupid Those are sharingan abilities Totsuka and Yata are spiritual weapons.

Sigh, you are smart. Kamui is time and space jutsu, ka is high class genjutsu, they are sharingan abilities :bouncy:

 

[xxSAGExx]

That was a seal, one time automatic jutsu like "Ka naruto". I'm not gonna argue over that as its really obvious

But according to you, ms is implanted or given like "ms sasuke". Then who gave itachi ms power or "jutsu" if you prefer?

And no sasuke didn't gain any tsukuyomi, it was confirmed by danzo, unlike what your scan said "sasuke got all itachi jutsu or power"

Um no. Seal means its seal there. Kurama is sealed, is he a one time use? Orochimaru was sealed in Sasuke yet Sasuke was using Orochimaru's abilities more than once. KA was never sealed in Naruto, it enter Naruto's body but no seals were placed on Naruto since Itachi didn't even touch Naruto. According to me? Try reread, I never said Sasuke's MS was implanted or given, I said EMS was but not MS. Jutsu doesn't always mean power, that's what you fail to realize.

I never said Sasuke had Tsukuyomi, that shows your reading skills sir. I mentioned Tsukuyomi but never said Sasuke had it plus it was never confirmed by Danzo, Danzo only said Sasuke's genjutsu is no where near Itachi's Tsukuyomi level which manipulated space and time. As for your quote of: " Sasuke got all itachi jutsu or power" I never said that so stop pulling false info out of nowhere. What I said was Sasuke's MS power combines with Itachi's MS power which makes the EMS power, no where did I say Sasuke gains all of Itachi's jutsus. In fact I said it was unknown if Sasuke will have them since it only said he would gain more power and his eye sight won't weaken.

I plain out provided manga fact of Sasuke saying he feeling Itachi's power flowing into him so either you're trolling, don't read the manga or just a fanboy who have no sense.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Sasuke's EMS is somewhat like Itachi's Totsuka blade and Yata mirror.
They were both not originally part of their power, but now they are, however Sasuke's EMS is still sort if a birth right given that all it did was give him the power of his ancestors.

Naruto on the other hand stopped being able to progress on his own at SM. His birth right is his strong body and butt loads of chakra.

Kurama is an external source that lends him power whenever he needs it. EMS is not feeding Sasuke power because Sasuke still has to use his own chakra, Naruto doesn't. EMS can't just decide to stop working, but Kurama can.

Whether Naruto suffered or not doesn't even matter. Otherwise I could be saying how Sasuke had to fight and lose his sight to get EMS.

As for being cheap, this isn't about being cheap or not. This about EMS being Sasuke's power.

Kurama is just as much as Naruto's rightful power as EMS is Sasuke's rightful power. Your whole argument that it's Sasuke's "right" hinges on the fact that it's passed down. However, Kurama has been passed down from Uzamaki to Uzamaki from the early days of the village. It's a power that is passed down just like EMS.


Both originally started out as an external force and are now an inseparable part(bar reverse sealing and eye tearing) of the user. Whether or not chakra's being consciously fed is completely irrelevant. In a fight, Kurama would never not give Naruto his chakra. Kurama stated it himself that if Naruto dies, he dies, and he doesn't want that. The thing is, even though Kurama can be revived, he does not like the consequences of Naruto dying, therefore, he will never let Naruto die and would always be forced to let Naruto to use his chakra. They rely on each other. It's a symbiotic relationship that is not conditional. It's just as good as Naruto's power since he decides who to fight, and bijus that want to live are going to have to keep him alive, which means they'll have to give him chakra.

 

[TrollKing]

Um no. Seal means its seal there. Kurama is sealed, is he a one time use? Orochimaru was sealed in Sasuke yet Sasuke was using Orochimaru's abilities more than once. KA was never sealed in Naruto, it enter Naruto's body but no seals were placed on Naruto since Itachi didn't even touch Naruto. According to me? Try reread, I never said Sasuke's MS was implanted or given, I said EMS was but not MS. Jutsu doesn't always mean power, that's what you fail to realize.

I never said Sasuke had Tsukuyomi, that shows your reading skills sir. I mentioned Tsukuyomi but never said Sasuke had it plus it was never confirmed by Danzo, Danzo only said Sasuke's genjutsu is no where near Itachi's Tsukuyomi level which manipulated space and time. As for your quote of: " Sasuke got all itachi jutsu or power" I never said that so stop pulling false info out of nowhere. What I said was Sasuke's MS power combines with Itachi's MS power which makes the EMS power, no where did I say Sasuke gains all of Itachi's jutsus. In fact I said it was unknown if Sasuke will have them since it only said he would gain more power and his eye sight won't weaken.

I plain out provided manga fact of Sasuke saying he feeling Itachi's power flowing into him so either you're trolling, don' read the manga or just a fanboy who have no sense.

So you saying Sasuke ms abilities is not given by itachi, but amaterasu is given by itachi. Kishi clearly stated amaterasu is "sasuke's" first ms power, never once said itachi gave him ability to use amaterasu. I gave you much better scan than you have to support your claim, you should thank me for being so generous.

So base on you, the only power itach gave sasuke is amaterasu, I wonder where enton comes from. So sasuke ms power is enton, but his ms doesn't have amaterasu, then what the hell he has enton for normally? Please entertain me by saying itachi gave sasuke enton, then I be speechless

Seal or enter whatever you like to call it, ka naruto and (itachi's ms)sasuke is only one time thing and that's itachi or shisui power.

Kishi show ms sasuke never controlled (itachi given)power. Show me a scan says ms sasuke controlled "itachi's power"

Ems= sasuke ms/madara ms+ eternal light(Manga stated clearly)

jutsu is power, power without jutsu is garbage unless you go 8 gates. When people say power, its "always" about power of certain jutsu. If you want to talk about sasuke's power, its the power of his jutsu(aka eye power same thing). Powerful eyes with 0 jutsu is nothing

 

[shelke]

This is still going on? Alright, it's thread clean-up time.


Regardless of whether or not it's "borrowed power," you're dodging the main point. EMS is a modified power. There is no denying this. It is not Sasuke's natural power, and his natural skills and progression ended at the kage summit with MS. Now, he's been modified beyond is own skill and natural potential by an outside force.

Naruto's the same way. His natural progression stopped when he obtained the current-level of power his SM has.(not the new buff) His outside modification is Kurama.

To say either hasn't been modified beyond natural potential would be foolish. The only question if what's more "cheap."


However, this argument cannot be used against Naruto since Sasuke only got a surgery for his power. Naruto had to have his skin burnt off, mutilated, and had to literally fight Kurama and some other bijus to get his respect.

You cleaned up squat, given that Sharingan usage by the Clan members isn't stealing or borrowing. Listen to yourselves. The manga outright talks about sacrifices by the Uchiha Clan members to learn the secrets of the Sharingan.

Even from an anthropological perspective, this is rubbish logic. You know it, I know it, every body knows it. So let's drop this shenanigan. As for Naruto working hard? This is just a funny argument, given how he got KCM and BM. Extremely funny.

 

[xxSAGExx]

So you saying Sasuke ms abilities is not given by itachi, but amaterasu is given by itachi. Kishi clearly stated amaterasu is "sasuke's" first ms power, never once said itachi gave him ability to use amaterasu. I gave you much better scan than you have to support your claim, you should thank me for being so generous.

So base on you, the only power itach gave sasuke is amaterasu, I wonder where enton comes from. So sasuke ms power is enton, but his ms doesn't have amaterasu, then what the hell he has enton for normally? Please entertain me by saying itachi gave sasuke enton, then I be speechless

Seal or enter whatever you like to call it, ka naruto and (itachi's ms)sasuke is only one time thing and that's itachi or shisui power.

Kishi show ms sasuke never controlled (itachi given)power. Show me a scan says ms sasuke controlled "itachi's power"

Ems=sasuke/madara ms+ eternal light(Manga stated clearly)

jutsu is power, power without jutsu is garbage unless you go 8 gates. When people say power, its "always" about power of certain jutsu. If you want to talk about sasuke's power, its the power of his jutsu(aka eye power same thing). Powerful eyes with 0 jutsu is nothing

I never said Sasuke's MS abilities were given by Itachi, reread. MS abilities include reading the opponente's movements, seeing through ninjutsus/Genjutsus/Taijutsus, controlling Bijuus and using the MS jutsus. Yes I believe Itachi gave Sasuke Amaterasu, all MS are different with different shapes and powers but it is unknown if brothers can awaken similar power so to say they can is speculations. You didn't provide me any scans so I don't know why you think you did. Of course it was Sasuke's first MS jutsu, that was the first one he used but did he say it was a jutsus Sasuke unlocked on his own or was it because Itachi equipped Sasuke with it and using it influenced his eyes to have it?

What are you talking about? Power doesn't always mean jutsu. the scan I provided is Sasuke saying he feels Itachi's power flowing into him, none of Itachi's MS jutsus can flow into Sasuke like he was describing it. Power can mean chakra, strength, energy, ect. Sasuke felt Itachi's power, not any jutsus

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. Enton is Amaterasu with shape manipulation basically. As you can see, Sasuke manipulated the Amaterasu's shape but it's still the same Amaterasu flame

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.

Kishi never showed Sasuke using Itachi's Amaterasu because Sasuke got his MS right after talking to Obito

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and he wasn't in any fights until fighting Bee. Wrong if EMS was only MS+ Eternal light then they wouldn't have any new MS jutsus like Perfect Susanoo or leg Susanoo. Itachi would be able to use PS if it was MS jutsus since he had his MS since he was 13 and he died around age 21-22. If getting Itachi's eye did not give Sasuke more power then why is Sasuke saying he can feel Itachi's power flowing through him? Are you denying what Sasuke himself said?

Wow, your last part was pure garbage since it's only your opinion and hold no truth to it. So what jutsu are people talking about when they talk about the Kurama's power? They're talking about the raw power that Kurama has, a roar that can destroy a huge part of Konoha, a swing of Kurama's tail can crumble mountains and start tsunamis

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. What jutsus are people talking about when they talk about the Byakugan? not gentle fist or any other jutsus since they actually will mention those jutsus if they were. That's power, not jutsus. What does a EMS looks like? The combination of both MS eyes? Why? Because it's the combination of both MS and it's a new Duojutsu which makes it much stronger than a MS (Itachi called it a new doujutsu

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).

 

[Stark]

Wrong, Sasuke does not own Itachi's body, alive or dead. Just because it's his brother doesn't mean it's his. Itachi was his own person and it's his eyes. Sasuke took those eyes which combined with his power and the result was the EMS, this was not made by Sasuke's power alone but along with Itachi's. Kurama gave Naruto power, as OT described what borrow means, Naruto doesn't return this chakra since he uses it up in his jutsus so how can he return it if he uses it? Borrow means you intend to give back, can't give the chakra back when it's used up.

Itachi eyes doesn't belong to Sasuke either, just like how Kurama is his own living being, Itachi is his own person as well. Both gave their powers to those they wanted. Sasuke and Naruto were give power or took power for themselves. In fact, Obito was the one who had Itachi's eyes and gave them to Sasuke when Sasuke wanted them, after Itachi died, Sasuke blacked out so either way, he wouldn't have had them since Kakashi and Yamato's group would have taken Sasuke if Obito didn't and we don't know if they would have taken Itachi's body, buried it and destroy it since they didn't know the truth about Itachi at that time.

What does Kurama say to Naruto? "If you want me to lend you my power,...."

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Lend means to: (V) give temporarily. (V) bestow a quality on. (v) have certain characteristic of qualities for something. No chakra is temporary since once you use it, it's up and you have to mold more chakra. Naruto is given chakra, he doesn't borrow it; same with Sasuke's eyes, he was given Itachi's eyes, he's not borrowing them nor did he attain his power on his own.

Making long paragraphs means nothing if you just repeat what you and I said and pass it off as a big intimidating response, Naruto relies on Kurama, and beast that was sealed in him. Sasuke relies on his eyes that he was born with, eyes that belong to him after the passing of his brother Itachi. The eyes don't belong to him so who do they belong to? I see Sasuke's MS pattern in the eye.

 

[KisuneUchiha]

So , a stolen power then ?

"Stolen" infers that Itachi didnt WANT Sasuke to do the transplant and that Sasuke did it regardless of Itachi's will