Yet for a whole village trying to find any clues to defeat the guy who just flattened it like a pancake, it would have been slightly important for the Hyuuga to notify someone if they could see chakra being broadcasted to the Paths.
You're literally arguing that a lack of knowledge was what stopped 2 Byakugan users from noticing Nagato's chakra, when one of those users faced a Path with her Byakugan activated in direct combat. In fact, let me put this another way:
Do Hinata and Ko need to have the knowledge that the Paths were being controlled by someone else, in order for the chakra that is being transmitted to Deva Path right in front of Hinata's eyes to suddenly become visible?
Not to mention the fact that Itachi as per this fight's timeline would not have that knowledge either...
But does absolutely jack in helping him see what at least two Hyuugas failed to see. Are you going to tell me that Itachi's Sharingan sees chakra better than several Byaukugan users now?
... which is what makes it untraceable. Again, how are you going to get a highest frequency to track when the mere fact that the frequency is constantly changing is the reason why it is untraceable?
3. Nagato shares his senses with his 3 paths and yet you justify that the paths that share the same senses didn't work on Nagato who shares the same hearing.
Yep, that Nagato fanboy logic
^^try using sense before I even attempt this one
So, if I understand this correctly, you're saying that Nagato was paralyzed along with the Paths.
That still doesn't explain how he was still able to send other Paths to Jiraiya's location. Nor does it explain how a genjutsu is reaching Nagato when there is no stable medium for Jiraiya to control the chakra in Nagato's brain. You know, what with Nagato making his chakra untraceable and all.
No, because it is not necessary. The Paths were damaged beyond repair by Sage Mode strength, being shattered after turning to stone, bifurcated by Rasenshuriken, and Sage Mode Rasengans (besides Deva Path who took the force of his own Shinra Tensei, part of a Bijuu bomb, and two Sage Mode kicks before a Rasengan damaged him beyond repair).
Unless they were damaged so badly that they would not be able to move. Shizune took out a bunch of receivers from Animal Path alone, all of which that Path clearly needs to move properly. You're telling me Naruto could not destroy the receivers in a Path's body with Sage Mode Rasengans and strength when KCM Rasengans were used to destroy said chakra rods during the fight against Obito?
You really should try to understand my posts before responding to them, because nowhere did I say that Nagato shares all of his senses with his Paths. What I did say was:
"Nagato "shares" hearing with his Paths in much the same way that he "shares" vision, otherwise he would not be able to hold conversations through his Paths."
If Nagato felt the same pain that his Paths feel (assuming they feel pain, of course) then he would most likely have been dead from the first time a Path was defeated.
The Paths having blood does nothing to prove that they feel pain, nor does it take away from the fact that they are corpses controlled by the chakra receivers in their bodies.
"Itachi is the only one who could take control of someone from outside the range of our sensors.."
Ao spoke in the singular, saying Itachi could take control of someone with genjutsu, then goes on to say Itachi can't control so many people in so many places. That does not in any way sound like a "mass control genjutsu". If anything, Ao is implying the opposite.
Oh you mean that genjutsu that Jiraiya (who has admitted before he sucks at genjutsu) casually broke that woman out of? Nagato breaks it just as easily, seeing that he has
I don't need to prove that a Byakugan user was searching for Nagato's real body, I just need proof that they saw a Path with their Byakugan activated and did not notice the chakra being transmitted to it. I have that proof with Hinata and Ko. Why you assume that you have to be aware of Nagato's real body to see that chakra is clearly going into a Path from an outside force is beyond me. Why you also assume that Itachi knows about Nagato's real body at this point in the story when he didn't even know what Obito's powers were is also baffling.
Yet for a whole village trying to find any clues to defeat the guy who just flattened it like a pancake, it would have been slightly important for the Hyuuga to notify someone if they could see chakra being broadcasted to the Paths.
You're literally arguing that a lack of knowledge was what stopped 2 Byakugan users from noticing Nagato's chakra, when one of those users faced a Path with her Byakugan activated in direct combat. In fact, let me put this another way:
Do Hinata and Ko need to have the knowledge that the Paths were being controlled by someone else, in order for the chakra that is being transmitted to Deva Path right in front of Hinata's eyes to suddenly become visible?
Not to mention the fact that Itachi as per this fight's timeline would not have that knowledge either...
But does absolutely jack in helping him see what at least two Hyuugas failed to see. Are you going to tell me that Itachi's Sharingan sees chakra better than several Byaukugan users now?
... which is what makes it untraceable. Again, how are you going to get a highest frequency to track when the mere fact that the frequency is constantly changing is the reason why it is untraceable?
So, if I understand this correctly, you're saying that Nagato was paralyzed along with the Paths.
That still doesn't explain how he was still able to send other Paths to Jiraiya's location. Nor does it explain how a genjutsu is reaching Nagato when there is no stable medium for Jiraiya to control the chakra in Nagato's brain. You know, what with Nagato making his chakra untraceable and all.
The fact that it would have done much worse to him otherwise.
No, because it is not necessary. The Paths were damaged beyond repair by Sage Mode strength, being shattered after turning to stone, bifurcated by Rasenshuriken, and Sage Mode Rasengans (besides Deva Path who took the force of his own Shinra Tensei, part of a Bijuu bomb, and two Sage Mode kicks before a Rasengan damaged him beyond repair).
By physically damaging it beyond repair, after it took damage from other, stronger attacks. Even then he still had to
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to make sure he didn't get back up. Tsukuyomi does not cause physical damage, and is going to do jack to the mind of a corpse.
Unless they were damaged so badly that they would not be able to move. Shizune took out a bunch of receivers from Animal Path alone, all of which that Path clearly needs to move properly. You're telling me Naruto could not destroy the receivers in a Path's body with Sage Mode Rasengans and strength when KCM Rasengans were used to destroy said chakra rods during the fight against Obito?
You really should try to understand my posts before responding to them, because nowhere did I say that Nagato shares all of his senses with his Paths. What I did say was:
"Nagato "shares" hearing with his Paths in much the same way that he "shares" vision, otherwise he would not be able to hold conversations through his Paths."
If Nagato felt the same pain that his Paths feel (assuming they feel pain, of course) then he would most likely have been dead from the first time a Path was defeated.
The Paths having blood does nothing to prove that they feel pain, nor does it take away from the fact that they are corpses controlled by the chakra receivers in their bodies.
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Who's making stuff up now?
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"Itachi is the only one who could take control of someone from outside the range of our sensors.."
Ao spoke in the singular, saying Itachi could take control of someone with genjutsu, then goes on to say Itachi can't control so many people in so many places. That does not in any way sound like a "mass control genjutsu". If anything, Ao is implying the opposite.
Oh you mean that genjutsu that Jiraiya (who has admitted before he sucks at genjutsu) casually broke that woman out of? Nagato breaks it just as easily, seeing that he has
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with genjutsu himself.
I don't need to prove that a Byakugan user was searching for Nagato's real body, I just need proof that they saw a Path with their Byakugan activated and did not notice the chakra being transmitted to it. I have that proof with Hinata and Ko. Why you assume that you have to be aware of Nagato's real body to see that chakra is clearly going into a Path from an outside force is beyond me. Why you also assume that Itachi knows about Nagato's real body at this point in the story when he didn't even know what Obito's powers were is also baffling.
None of them left the village to find nagato's real body acres away from the village.
2. You didn't read my edit, I posted a scan of where the hyuuga's were looking during the battle.
b. Changing the rate of chakra through the stake, someone with intel is not going to use a stake to find Nagato.
3. No, it just explains why the paths didn't attack Jiraiya until after the genjustu was over :|
The other paths couldn't do anything...
4. What part of base rasengan don't you understand?
Read the edit I made 2hrs ago, they're scans of the paths feeling pain.
Even Obito's 5 tail jinchuuriki path said it felt pain.
So you are going nowhere with this...
You're just not picking which of the 5 senses that Nagato shares with his paths you fanboy.
The sharingan manipulates all your senses.
If Nagato doesn't share the same mind with his paths, he wouldn't share the same hearing, speech, and sight as his paths.
/logic
5. Referr to edit, it was literally 2 hrs ago
6. It is a genjustu that itachi can control multiple people at once (mass genjustu), if you read they said that controlling a whole alliance simultaneously widely spread is too much for itachi.
Six bodies aren't doing anything..
The only way you can cancel out a ocular genjustu is by another person disrupting your chakra.
It says so in the databook, even Sakura was able to do it to naruto.
So cool your hype, it was only a distraction.
That is a shield not a genjustu repeller :|
Pointless stupid scan, I knew there were fanboys how misunderstood that part of the manga.
7. Like I posted before, no one knows that the corpse are not real bodies.
All they see is chakra running through the bodies like every other person.
If they left the village, they will see chakra similar to the paths.
Itachi does have knowledge on Nagato, for starters he knows nagato's name and seen his face.
He knows the secrets of the tablet..,
He knows that Tobi is the leader of Akatsuki
He knew how to disable all of nagato's shared vision while attacking with Susanoo at the same time.
Yes, Itachi has knowledge...
He even knows about infinite tsukyomi, something Nagato never knew.
I wonder if you'll ever realize how little that matters. It doesn't matter whether or not they knew the Paths were corpses. It doesn't matter whether they knew about Nagato's real body. If their eyes have the ability to perceive Nagato's chakra as it's being broadcasted to the Paths, then they would notice it from the moment they gaze at a Path. Hinata and Ko both looked at the Paths with their Byakugan activated. Neither saw the chakra Nagato was broadcasting to the Paths, despite having the Paths in their vision. Therefore how will Itachi see that same chakra when his eyes aren't even on the same level as theirs?
And you continue to prove my point for me. Ko and Hinata were watching Naruto fight Pain. Neither made any indication towards the Paths receiving chakra from an outside force.
Showing a Path trying to talk with a large sword jammed right where its lungs would be is not conclusive evidence that they feel pain. It's conclusive evidence that it's hard to talk when your lungs are full of sword.
Obito's Paths =/= Nagato's Paths. Obito's Paths were Edo jinchuriki with bijuu in them, and thus, each Path had some form of consciousness. Nagato's Paths are corpses controlled by chakra. There's no consciousness present in any of them. Not like I would expect a dead body to have a consciousness in the first place ...
It's quite clear that Nagato would have to be able to hear what the Paths hear as well in order for him to hold conversations through his Paths. Which pretty decisively ends any argument that could be made that Nagato can only see through the Paths. It's also quite clear that Nagato would most likely be dead several times over if he experienced the same injuries that his Paths were inflicted with, which is why he likely doesn't feel what they feel. Every other sense is unclear. But please, continue with your ad hominem.
6. It is a genjustu that itachi can control multiple people at once (mass genjustu), if you read they said that controlling a whole alliance simultaneously widely spread is too much for itachi.
Nowhere in that scan did Ao state that Itachi can control multiple people at once with the same genjutsu. What he said was that Itachi could take control of someone with genjutsu outside the range of their sensors. When the conversation turned to controlling multiple people with genjutsu Ao automatically discounted Itachi.
The only way you can cancel out a ocular genjustu is by another person disrupting your chakra.
It says so in the databook, even Sakura was able to do it to naruto.
Yet Kurenai broke out of one by biting her lip. And Jiraiya suggested another way of dealing with genjutsu, via disrupting your chakra control. And Chiyo suggested
So Nagato can create "powerful genjutsu shields" yet can't dispel a genjutsu that a self-admitted novice at genjutsu was able to at a moment's notice. Yup, that makes perfect sense *sarcasm*
Nearly all of those things have nothing to do with Nagato's abilities. As for the things that do, that does not help Itachi at all in locating Nagato's real body.
Yes. We all know eyesight is one of the mediums in which itachi uses genjutsu.
By looking into his eyes his chakra takes control of the opponents brain. Common knowledge.
It still doesn't explain how nagato falls under genjutsu. Only his path would be effected. Just like with jman's sound gen.
So I'll ask it again How does Nagato(not his paths) fall under genjutsu?Cuz your whole argument is centered around that.
I wonder if you'll ever realize how little that matters. It doesn't matter whether or not they knew the Paths were corpses. It doesn't matter whether they knew about Nagato's real body. If their eyes have the ability to perceive Nagato's chakra as it's being broadcasted to the Paths, then they would notice it from the moment they gaze at a Path. Hinata and Ko both looked at the Paths with their Byakugan activated. Neither saw the chakra Nagato was broadcasting to the Paths, despite having the Paths in their vision. Therefore how will Itachi see that same chakra when his eyes aren't even on the same level as theirs?
How are you suppose to see of what you don't know?
Hinata didn't even see the fight until Deva path, then she ran after Naruto.
When seeing chakra all you can see is the chakra in the stakes and the same from the original body.
You don't sense chakra broadcasting in the air, otherwise naruto wouldn't need to stab himself with one of the stakes :/
And you continue to prove my point for me. Ko and Hinata were watching Naruto fight Pain. Neither made any indication towards the Paths receiving chakra from an outside force
Irrelevant, none of the Paths were one shotted with a base Rasengan.
I can tell you're a noob that makes sh*t up
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Showing a Path trying to talk with a large sword jammed right where its lungs would be is not conclusive evidence that they feel pain. It's conclusive evidence that it's hard to talk when your lungs are full of sword.
If you don't feel pain then it wouldn't matter, nor would they grunt
Obito's Paths =/= Nagato's Paths. Obito's Paths were Edo jinchuriki with bijuu in them, and thus, each Path had some form of consciousness. Nagato's Paths are corpses controlled by chakra. There's no consciousness present in any of them. Not like I would expect a dead body to have a consciousness in the first place ...
It's quite clear that Nagato would have to be able to hear what the Paths hear as well in order for him to hold conversations through his Paths. Which pretty decisively ends any argument that could be made that Nagato can only see through the Paths. It's also quite clear that Nagato would most likely be dead several times over if he experienced the same injuries that his Paths were inflicted with, which is why he likely doesn't feel what they feel. Every other sense is unclear. But please, continue with your ad hominem.
It's quite clear that the rinnegan's ability is to share the same vision, it is not clear that they share every other specific senses because the never stated it can in the first place.
please do preach more blasphemy and biased reports that suits your needs... :|
Why does he need to share his mind with the Paths to see what they see, or hear what they hear?
how do you share sight and hearing without a mind?
please do tell...
Nowhere in that scan did Ao state that Itachi can control multiple people at once with the same genjutsu. What he said was that Itachi could take control of someone with genjutsu outside the range of their sensors. When the conversation turned to controlling multiple people with genjutsu Ao automatically discounted Itachi.
Shikamaru's dad stated he can control the ninjas (plural) with genjustu.
Yet Kurenai broke out of one by biting her lip. And Jiraiya suggested another way of dealing with genjutsu, via disrupting your chakra control. And Chiyo suggested
Yet naruto tried to disrupt his chakra and that failed against a 30% substitute
Like I posted before Chiyo need another person and so does the databook.
Since pain shares one chakra and one vision, he'll need konan to help him disrupt his chakra
Your point?
Kurenai wasn't even a sharingan genjustu
Orochimaru who hasa 5 in genjustu couldn't even break Itachi's sharingan genjustu
Nagato has no genjustu training whatsoever
/post
So Nagato can create "powerful genjutsu shields" yet can't dispel a genjutsu that a self-admitted novice at genjutsu was able to at a moment's notice. Yup, that makes perfect sense *sarcasm*
Until you realize the different forms of genjustu, I'd advice you stop making a fool of yourself
Prove the bolded.
Nearly all of those things have nothing to do with Nagato's abilities. As for the things that do, that does not help Itachi at all in locating Nagato's real body.
Yes. We all know eyesight is one of the mediums in which itachi uses genjutsu.
By looking into his eyes his chakra takes control of the opponents brain. Common knowledge.
It still doesn't explain how nagato falls under genjutsu. Only his path would be effected. Just like with jman's sound gen.
So I'll ask it again How does Nagato(not his paths) fall under genjutsu?Cuz your whole argument is centered around that.
Wait, so now you're saying that you can't see the chakra being broadcasted to the Paths? Unless you stab yourself with one of Pain's chakra rods, which will disrupt Itachi's chakra and prevent him from controlling it as per canon?
Well, it's about damn time. Thank you for finally conceding that Itachi has no chance of finding Nagato's real body.
So if Itachi never fought the Paths, that would mean ... in other words ... that Itachi does not know how Nagato fights when he's using the Paths.
And for all we know, Nagato could have told Itachi about that aspect of his Rinnegan whilst the two were partnered up as Edos. But that's not incredibly important: what is important is the fact that Itachi only succeeded in blinding the vision of stationary targets whose focus was on Naruto and Bee (which is a moment of absolute stupidity on Kabuto's part, as that defeats the entire purpose of having multiple viewpoints). Itachi is not likely to replicate that feat against 6 Paths + Konan who can not only increase their number of viewpoints with summons/Asura Path face growth, but more importantly ... dodge.
You would only say that if you failed to understand what I was posting all along.
Once again, the Paths do not share sight and hearing with each other. There would be no point in doing that. They are corpses (plus there's also the fact that if that was the case all the Paths would be blinded once Jiraiya kicked the sight out of Human Path). They share their sight and hearing with Nagato, who can also rely on his own senses in tandem with the additional viewpoints/hearing points, as he demonstrated when he was an Edo. Not once have I said that they share minds.
I can tell you don't understand the meaning of "one shotted":
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The mere fact that Deva Path took all of that damage before Naruto's base Rasengan came into play means that he wasn't one shotted by a base Rasengan. The mere fact that Deva Path took significant damage at all before base Rasengan came into play means that he wasn't one shotted by said Rasengan. Hence what I said still remains true. Unless you're going to accuse me of making up those scans too.
PS: You would have also noticed that Deva Path did not cry out in pain after taking any of those attacks, not like that matters as much as you may think it does, seeing that Tsukuyomi is not going to be doing anything to the mind of a corpse.
Except that the air being provided from your lungs to your vocal cords is kinda sorta important to ensuring you can speak. The Paths' lungs were full of sword at that point, not air.
With the soul of deceased being bound to that corpse, hence, a form of consciousness. On their own, the Paths have no consciousness, hence they are not comparable to Obito's Paths.
It's quite clear that the rinnegan's ability is to share the same vision, it is not clear that they share every other specific senses because the never stated it can in the first place.
Misinterpreted my question again. Why does Nagato need to share his mind with the Paths in order to see through their eyes and hear what they hear? That's what the chakra receivers are there for. That's why he's broadcasting his chakra to those receivers in the first place.
Now apply context to what he said. Shikaku said the only possibility was that their guys were being controlled by genjutsu, then considered Itachi as a choice. That could just as easily mean that Itachi was catching ninja one at a time with Sharingan genjutsu, which would still fall in line with his words. And then Ao comes in and bulldozes any notion of a "mass control genjutsu" by not only saying that Itachi could take control of one person outside of their sensor range, but that he was not capable of controlling several people with genjutsu.
Itachi is fighting the Six Paths of Pain and Konan. If he attempts to put one Path under genjutsu, that leaves 5 others + summons + Konan to attack him.
Except he doesn't share one vision, Nagato gains 6 extra pairs of eyes in addition to his own. Whereas the only mind Itachi will be subjugating with his genjutsu will be the mind of the Path he's targeting, what with that inconvenient fact that Nagato makes his chakra untraceable via normal means and all.
Then how did Itachi counter Kurenai's genjutsu without making any handseals? Here's a hint: it was the Sharingan.
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"Magen: Kyou Tenchi Ten
KEKKEI GENKAI; Genjutsu; Magen: Kyou Tenchi Ten (Genjutsu; Demonic Illusion: Universe-Mirroring Reversal)
User: Uchiha Itachi
Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none
Main text
One decrypts a genjutsu that has been applied onto them, and casts back a jutsu with identical effects onto the opponent!! It's a form of illusion reversal, but in order to instantly read through a jutsu and cast it in return, the Sharingan's power is necessary. As genjutsu is initially used to confuse the enemy, this technique which sends it right back to its caster deals a high amount of mental damage, more than anything else."
Therefore Kurenai broke out of a Sharingan genjutsu via biting her lip.
Speculation. Nagato was taught how to be a ninja by the same man who taught Naruto defense against genjutsu as part of his training to be a ninja. And unlike Naruto, Nagato has an established feat of being able to create powerful genjutsu shields that not even skilled sensors and interrogators could breach without time and difficulty. To say he has enough knowledge of genjutsu to create shields with them yet have no defense against genjutsu itself is silly. To say he can't dispel the same genjutsu that Jiraiya the novice at genjutsu dispelled is beyond silly.
The Paths are being controlled by Nagato in this battle, not Kabuto.
Bee and Naruto are not here to take the Paths' and Konan's attention off Itachi, neither can they help him break out of Chibaku Tensei.
Itachi is alive and sick, thus is unable to spam his Mangekyo techniques without keeling over. Nevermind the myriad of ways the Paths can counter said techniques.
The Paths are not going to stand around and get their eyes blinded by kunai. They can dodge.
Itachi has little to no chance of winning this match.
Wait, so now you're saying that you can't see the chakra being broadcasted to the Paths? Unless you stab yourself with one of Pain's chakra rods, which will disrupt Itachi's chakra and prevent him from controlling it as per canon?
Well, it's about damn time. Thank you for finally conceding that Itachi has no chance of finding Nagato's real body.
So if Itachi never fought the Paths, that would mean ... in other words ... that Itachi does not know how Nagato fights when he's using the Paths.
And for all we know, Nagato could have told Itachi about that aspect of his Rinnegan whilst the two were partnered up as Edos. But that's not incredibly important: what is important is the fact that Itachi only succeeded in blinding the vision of stationary targets whose focus was on Naruto and Bee (which is a moment of absolute stupidity on Kabuto's part, as that defeats the entire purpose of having multiple viewpoints). Itachi is not likely to replicate that feat against 6 Paths + Konan who can not only increase their number of viewpoints with summons/Asura Path face growth, but more importantly ... dodge.
You would only say that if you failed to understand what I was posting all along.
Once again, the Paths do not share sight and hearing with each other. There would be no point in doing that. They are corpses (plus there's also the fact that if that was the case all the Paths would be blinded once Jiraiya kicked the sight out of Human Path). They share their sight and hearing with Nagato, who can also rely on his own senses in tandem with the additional viewpoints/hearing points, as he demonstrated when he was an Edo. Not once have I said that they share minds.
I can tell you don't understand the meaning of "one shotted":
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The mere fact that Deva Path took all of that damage before Naruto's base Rasengan came into play means that he wasn't one shotted by a base Rasengan. The mere fact that Deva Path took significant damage at all before base Rasengan came into play means that he wasn't one shotted by said Rasengan. Hence what I said still remains true. Unless you're going to accuse me of making up those scans too.
PS: You would have also noticed that Deva Path did not cry out in pain after taking any of those attacks, not like that matters as much as you may think it does, seeing that Tsukuyomi is not going to be doing anything to the mind of a corpse.
Except that the air being provided from your lungs to your vocal cords is kinda sorta important to ensuring you can speak. The Paths' lungs were full of sword at that point, not air.
With the soul of deceased being bound to that corpse, hence, a form of consciousness. On their own, the Paths have no consciousness, hence they are not comparable to Obito's Paths.
So Nagato is a trained lip-reader and psychic, and the Paths were all blinded when Jiraiya blinded Human Path, as per your logic. Gotcha.
Misinterpreted my question again. Why does Nagato need to share his mind with the Paths in order to see through their eyes and hear what they hear? That's what the chakra receivers are there for. That's why he's broadcasting his chakra to those receivers in the first place.
Now apply context to what he said. Shikaku said the only possibility was that their guys were being controlled by genjutsu, then considered Itachi as a choice. That could just as easily mean that Itachi was catching ninja one at a time with Sharingan genjutsu, which would still fall in line with his words. And then Ao comes in and bulldozes any notion of a "mass control genjutsu" by not only saying that Itachi could take control of one person outside of their sensor range, but that he was not capable of controlling several people with genjutsu.
Naruto also happens to not have feats of creating powerful genjutsu shields.
Itachi is fighting the Six Paths of Pain and Konan. If he attempts to put one Path under genjutsu, that leaves 5 others + summons + Konan to attack him.
Except he doesn't share one vision, Nagato gains 6 extra pairs of eyes in addition to his own. Whereas the only mind Itachi will be subjugating with his genjutsu will be the mind of the Path he's targeting, what with that inconvenient fact that Nagato makes his chakra untraceable via normal means and all.
Then how did Itachi counter Kurenai's genjutsu without making any handseals? Here's a hint: it was the Sharingan.
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"Magen: Kyou Tenchi Ten
KEKKEI GENKAI; Genjutsu; Magen: Kyou Tenchi Ten (Genjutsu; Demonic Illusion: Universe-Mirroring Reversal)
User: Uchiha Itachi
Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none
Main text
One decrypts a genjutsu that has been applied onto them, and casts back a jutsu with identical effects onto the opponent!! It's a form of illusion reversal, but in order to instantly read through a jutsu and cast it in return, the Sharingan's power is necessary. As genjutsu is initially used to confuse the enemy, this technique which sends it right back to its caster deals a high amount of mental damage, more than anything else."
Therefore Kurenai broke out of a Sharingan genjutsu via biting her lip.
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.
Speculation. Nagato was taught how to be a ninja by the same man who taught Naruto defense against genjutsu as part of his training to be a ninja. And unlike Naruto, Nagato has an established feat of being able to create powerful genjutsu shields that not even skilled sensors and interrogators could breach without time and difficulty. To say he has enough knowledge of genjutsu to create shields with them yet have no defense against genjutsu itself is silly. To say he can't dispel the same genjutsu that Jiraiya the novice at genjutsu dispelled is beyond silly.
The Paths are being controlled by Nagato in this battle, not Kabuto.
Bee and Naruto are not here to take the Paths' and Konan's attention off Itachi, neither can they help him break out of Chibaku Tensei.
Itachi is alive and sick, thus is unable to spam his Mangekyo techniques without keeling over. Nevermind the myriad of ways the Paths can counter said techniques.
The Paths are not going to stand around and get their eyes blinded by kunai. They can dodge.
Itachi has little to no chance of winning this match.
Wait, so now you're saying that you can't see the chakra being broadcasted to the Paths? Unless you stab yourself with one of Pain's chakra rods, which will disrupt Itachi's chakra and prevent him from controlling it as per canon?
Well, it's about damn time. Thank you for finally conceding that Itachi has no chance of finding Nagato's real body.
When sending a crow summoning or clone outside the village away from the paths.
The sharingan will see the real bodies chakra...Simple
So if Itachi never fought the Paths, that would mean ... in other words ... that Itachi does not know how Nagato fights when he's using the Paths.
And for all we know, Nagato could have told Itachi about that aspect of his Rinnegan whilst the two were partnered up as Edos. But that's not incredibly important: what is important is the fact that Itachi only succeeded in blinding the vision of stationary targets whose focus was on Naruto and Bee (which is a moment of absolute stupidity on Kabuto's part, as that defeats the entire purpose of having multiple viewpoints). Itachi is not likely to replicate that feat against 6 Paths + Konan who can not only increase their number of viewpoints with summons/Asura Path face growth, but more importantly ... dodge.
Well first off this is an itachi vs. pain fight, konan was never included in this fight.
While on track, Nagato wasn't stationary when he was on the chameleon so I see no issue here.
Regardless, hitting moving targets wouldn't be a problem for Itachi...
He never miss, even deflecting all of Sasuke shurikens accurately faster than any eye movement.
As senile as Nagato is, his paths have no serious justification.
Just look at how Kakashi nearly stabbed deva, if it weren't for shrina tensei he would of been killed.
The word dodge and Nagato pain should never be in the same sentence, since hiding like a mole technique nearly pierced his chest.
You would only say that if you failed to understand what I was posting all along.
Once again, the Paths do not share sight and hearing with each other. There would be no point in doing that. They are corpses (plus there's also the fact that if that was the case all the Paths would be blinded once Jiraiya kicked the sight out of Human Path). They share their sight and hearing with Nagato, who can also rely on his own senses in tandem with the additional viewpoints/hearing points, as he demonstrated when he was an Edo. Not once have I said that they share minds.
Wow more fan-fic, this time with flawful contradictory .
If the paths don't share sight with each other, then the whole 360• vision with the rinnegan doesn't exist with your logic.
That means the time Kakashi tried to raikiri Asura and missed wasn't due to the fact that deva's sight was linked with the Asura path?
That Nagato fap logic, please keep it coming :|
The you justify your self that all the paths don't share with each other, but all towards Nagato (which mean that genjustu from 3 paths just one shot him too).
Oh wait, but he can somewhat keep his own sight/hearing from getting damage from his paths too Lol
.... How about you cut the @sspull story and post some damn facts to back up this horrid assumption. :|
I can tell you don't understand the meaning of "one shotted":
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The mere fact that Deva Path took all of that damage before Naruto's base Rasengan came into play means that he wasn't one shotted by a base Rasengan. The mere fact that Deva Path took significant damage at all before base Rasengan came into play means that he wasn't one shotted by said Rasengan. Hence what I said still remains true. Unless you're going to accuse me of making up those scans too.
PS: You would have also noticed that Deva Path did not cry out in pain after taking any of those attacks, not like that matters as much as you may think it does, seeing that Tsukuyomi is not going to be doing anything to the mind of a corpse.
So you're implying that all those previous close call hits soften him up before getting one-shot?
That only works if you can feel pain, you do realize this?
The kick that he blocked, the six tail laser that he blocked with bansho tenin all count as a clear hit?
Not to mention that I didn't bring up what happened to Kings hell path, when he was stabbed with 3 Kunai knives to the arm.
Which he dropped Ebisu from the extraction due to...oh I don't know...PAIN :|
Making less sense by the post
Except that the air being provided from your lungs to your vocal cords is kinda sorta important to ensuring you can speak. The Paths' lungs were full of sword at that point, not air.
Since when does corpse grunt from being stabbed in the chest?
Since when does corpse need to be revived by the hell path, if they're died and don't feel pain?
You just keep digging that whole noob or, it is just way too easy.
With the soul of deceased being bound to that corpse, hence, a form of consciousness. On their own, the Paths have no consciousness, hence they are not comparable to Obito's Paths.
Both Nagato and Obito's body paths have no conscious, while the soul being bond to the Edo body is to keep the immortal body active, hence being exactly the same.
Only difference is that the soul gives an undead body, while Nagato has died bodies that have been given life unto.
(Hence why the six path of pain is an outer path, the controller of life and death).
You've just been educated kid, you're welcome...
So Nagato is a trained lip-reader and psychic, and the Paths were all blinded when Jiraiya blinded Human Path, as per your logic. Gotcha.
This has no lick of sense in it whatsoever, I ask for a scan and all I get is some horsesh*t about psychic.
Misinterpreted my question again. Why does Nagato need to share his mind with the Paths in order to see through their eyes and hear what they hear? That's what the chakra receivers are there for. That's why he's broadcasting his chakra to those receivers in the first place.
Why should Nagato share his speech-whatever when he has his chakra rods, that's what they are for.
^^See what I did there
If you share vision with your paths, it is linked with the optic nerve which is attached to the brain or mind in a sense.
Now apply context to what he said. Shikaku said the only possibility was that their guys were being controlled by genjutsu, then considered Itachi as a choice. That could just as easily mean that Itachi was catching ninja one at a time with Sharingan genjutsu, which would still fall in line with his words. And then Ao comes in and bulldozes any notion of a "mass control genjutsu" by not only saying that Itachi could take control of one person outside of their sensor range, but that he was not capable of controlling several people with genjutsu.
That's a rinnegan ability specifically made to prevent mind reading.
Literally could of some human path ability that is used on some fodder ninja.
The Justu is far from powerful, just read the databook states
Including, one important issue is that it is not a self inflicted shield.
Otherwise sage song wouldn't of worked on Nagato in the first place.
Remember...
The genjustu puts a trap or lock in the mind, but the sage song paralyzes the body and mind...
It's why I told you that you know nothing about genjustu...
Itachi is fighting the Six Paths of Pain and Konan. If he attempts to put one Path under genjutsu, that leaves 5 others + summons + Konan to attack him.
No you bimbo...
Konan isn't in this versus thread, and when you put one path in a visual genjustu all the other paths are in a genjustu
because the Rinnegan shares his vision with his paths.
Even you were arguing that the paths don't share with each other but only Nagato the real body.
If the bodies don't share vision (which is stupid because the manga stated this 10 times) that means one path getting genjustu sniped is going to affect Nagato directly.
Which would put all the other paths in an illusion too.
You never thought about this did you?
Except he doesn't share one vision, Nagato gains 6 extra pairs of eyes in addition to his own. Whereas the only mind Itachi will be subjugating with his genjutsu will be the mind of the Path he's targeting, what with that inconvenient fact that Nagato makes his chakra untraceable via normal means and all.
I want to know how has been feeding you these fan fic lies, I want to find them and punish them with words...
Because this is by far the most ludicrous crap you dug yourself into
You refuse to see the difference in sensing chakra and seeing it for yourself
Nagato gets genjustu thanks to that one path that gets caught, since he only shares hearing and sight with his path and not the paths with each other.
GG
Then how did Itachi counter Kurenai's genjutsu without making any handseals? Here's a hint: it was the Sharingan.
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"Magen: Kyou Tenchi Ten
KEKKEI GENKAI; Genjutsu; Magen: Kyou Tenchi Ten (Genjutsu; Demonic Illusion: Universe-Mirroring Reversal)
User: Uchiha Itachi
Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none
Main text
One decrypts a genjutsu that has been applied onto them, and casts back a jutsu with identical effects onto the opponent!! It's a form of illusion reversal, but in order to instantly read through a jutsu and cast it in return, the Sharingan's power is necessary. As genjutsu is initially used to confuse the enemy, this technique which sends it right back to its caster deals a high amount of mental damage, more than anything else."
Therefore Kurenai broke out of a Sharingan genjutsu via biting her lip.
Sasuke did the same thing to Orochimaru in his dimensions, yet he still didn't cut his hand of.
A genjustu release isn't a ninjustu that requires seals, he can still use his hands you know...
Speculation. Nagato was taught how to be a ninja by the same man who taught Naruto defense against genjutsu as part of his training to be a ninja. And unlike Naruto, Nagato has an established feat of being able to create powerful genjutsu shields that not even skilled sensors and interrogators could breach without time and difficulty. To say he has enough knowledge of genjutsu to create shields with them yet have no defense against genjutsu itself is silly. To say he can't dispel the same genjutsu that Jiraiya the novice at genjutsu dispelled is beyond silly.
The fact that Jiraiya stated that he never taught Nagato genjustu, so that's what he decided to use on him.
The fact that Jiraiya told naruto that he doesn't know any genjustu, but it will be important for him to break out of it
Specifically the that his main enemy is a genjustu user.
The fact that Jiraiya told the frog sage that he doesn't know any genjustu himself, so can they lend a hand in the genjustu usage.
It is just silly and preposterous how you can blandly lie and justify yourself in your own
Delusions.
The Paths are being controlled by Nagato in this battle, not Kabuto.
Bee and Naruto are not here to take the Paths' and Konan's attention off Itachi, neither can they help him break out of Chibaku Tensei.
Itachi is alive and sick, thus is unable to spam his Mangekyo techniques without keeling over. Nevermind the myriad of ways the Paths can counter said techniques.
The Paths are not going to stand around and get their eyes blinded by kunai. They can dodge.
Itachi has little to no chance of winning this match.
Nagato has no counter for genjustu, especially when he can burn up 4 paths with Amatersu, genjustu preta for location of Nagato, and totsukya deva path.
This is immobile Nagato and the real body can only use chakra stakes if he is using pain in his match up.
Hinata and Ko disagree with you, as you have ignored several times.
Itachi is not going to get a clone past the Paths + their summons + Konan, as you have ignored several times.
Yet both Asura and Deva Path dodged Raikiri, 3 Paths dodged Rasenshuriken, and Deva Path dodged Rasenshuriken again, even when Naruto clones tried to jump him mid throw.
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, once even whilst
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.They can dodge a few shuriken aimed at their eyes, if not outright deflect them with chakra rods/block them with Animal Path summons/blast them and Itachi back with Shinra Tensei.
Nagato has access to the Paths' viewpoints, and since he is the one controlling them, he is the one who coordinates those viewpoints in such a way to eliminate blind spots. Think of each Path's sight as a camera, and Nagato as a guy in a room looking at each camera at once. The cameras do not share what they see with each other. They can't, they're just cameras. Nagato is there to figure out what to do with what they see.
The you justify your self that all the paths don't share with each other, but all towards Nagato (which mean that genjustu from 3 paths just one shot him too).
Except Nagato does not share his mind with the Paths. The Paths still have their own minds, they just also happen to be dead (therefore they possess no consciousness of their own). Therefore genjutsu can only affect their minds since Nagato's happens to be untraceable.
*Sees Deva Path take 2 kicks from someone who casually throws boss summons into the clouds*
*Sees him blasted back from the force of his own repelled Shinra Tensei*
*Sees Deva Path lose part of his cloak and headband from taking part of an explosion of a Bijuu bomb*
*Claims they were all close call hits*
So you don't understand the meaning of "one-shotted". Concession accepted.
Not to mention that I didn't bring up what happened to Kings hell path, when he was stabbed with 3 Kunai knives to the arm.
Which he dropped Ebisu from the extraction due to...oh I don't know...PAIN :|
Or maybe Nagato values that body the most of the Paths due to its ability to bring back the other Paths and would prefer if it got damaged as little as possible.
Fun fact: usually you need lungs to speak. Lungs that are not full of sword.
As for the rest, Nagato implanted chakra receivers in various places on the bodies of his Paths. Receivers which were probably damaged the moment Jiraiya drove a large sword through them. Hence those were what were recovered by Hell Path.
Both Nagato and Obito's body paths have no conscious, while the soul being bond to the Edo body is to keep the immortal body active, hence being exactly the same.
Only difference is that the soul gives an undead body, while Nagato has died bodies that have been given life unto.
(Hence why the six path of pain is an outer path, the controller of life and death).
Edo Tensei brings back the souls of the deceased and binds them to "immortal" bodies. The souls are the exact reason why Obito's Paths have consciousness. Take away Obito's chakra broadcasting to his Paths and you have Edo jinchuriki with individual personalities and the ability to control their bodies to the extent the caster of Edo Tensei allows.
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. There is literally no way to argue against that.
You asked for a scan proving that Nagato can hear what the Paths hear.
I refer to every time Nagato holds a conversation through his Paths as proof, even citing a page where Nagato, through a Path, was able to tell Jiraiya was using a sound genjutsu. Because you know, you kinda need to be able to hear what the other guy is saying in order to have a conversation with him.
You say that is not proof, that it was not explicitly stated in the manga, blah blah blah.
Thus, if Nagato can't hear what the Paths hear, then he must be a lip reader. And psychic, for all those times he "heard" things without looking at someone's lips.
... the chakra Nagato is broadcasting to the chakra rods enable him to speak through his Paths.
The chakra Nagato is broadcasting to the chakra receivers on the Paths is the reason he can access the Path's senses. That chakra happens to be untraceable unless you're a Perfect Sage like Naruto who stabbed himself with one of Nagato's chakra rods. Therefore genjutsu will not reach Nagato himself.
So said ninja had to be looking at Kakashi's Sharingan in order to fall under said genjutsu. Which means if the Paths don't look at Itachi's eyes they'll not be at risk of falling under genjutsu. Which also means this "mass-control" genjutsu you keep talking about has no actual basis in fact. Concession accepted.
*Sees a databook scan expanding on an event in the manga where a Sharingan genjutsu was broken via biting your lip*
*Still refuses to believe that Sharingan genjutsu can be broken in ways other than the partner method*
You know, you could have just said you don't care what the manga says. At least then it'll be more honest.
Different situation. Orochimaru did not have a body at the verge of rejecting him when he was fighting Itachi. Neither was Itachi under Oro's ritual. Neither were his arms sealed. Neither was he in his White Snake form when the genjutsu was cast.
Something he could have easily done with Nagato, Konan and Yahiko, seeing that he wanted them to be able to fend for themselves against other ninja in a country that was a magnet for war.
Nagato has no counter for genjustu, especially when he can burn up 4 paths with Amatersu, genjustu preta for location of Nagato, and totsukya deva path.
This is immobile Nagato and the real body can only use chakra stakes if he is using pain in his match up.
Sick Itachi is going to use Amaterasu 4 times nonstop when using it twice had him on his knees while fighting Sasuke? Cool story bro.
Nevermind the fact Animal Path could either pre-empt an Amaterasu with a Panda Summon, or hide in the chameleon summon whilst spamming other summons, which Itachi will have to take care of again with Amaterasu if he wants to get rid of them.
Hell Path is going to be protected by Deva Path wherever he goes. Itachi is not going to be able to take him out with Deva Path there ready to send him and Amaterasu flying with boss-toad level Shinra Tenseis. Thus he'll be free to bring back any defeated Paths.
Any other Path can be saved by Preta Path absorbing the flames.
Totsuka has only successfully caught stationary opponents. Again, the Paths can dodge. Nevermind the fact that the longer he stays in Susano'o, the sooner he dies.
Konan's also in this matchup, as per the stipulations of the first post.
Hinata and Ko disagree with you, as you have ignored several times.
Itachi is not going to get a clone past the Paths + their summons + Konan, as you have ignored several times.
Okay then, show me a scan for Hinata and Ko looking for the real body with their byukagan.
Until you give me a scan of Hinata and Ko looking for the real body, this assumption needs to end.
Because the manga doesn't disagree with anything but your assumption.
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Jiraiya and pein...once teacher and student, now their battle begins.
Nowhere does it say konan is involved...
Read OP kid, it means that Itachi starts of with animal path. Herp DERP...
Yet both Asura and Deva Path dodged Raikiri, 3 Paths dodged Rasenshuriken, and Deva Path dodged Rasenshuriken again, even when Naruto clones tried to jump him mid throw.
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, once even whilst
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.They can dodge a few shuriken aimed at their eyes, if not outright deflect them with chakra rods/block them with Animal Path summons/blast them and Itachi back with Shinra Tensei.
Yep Senile look at kakashi vs pein and the kakashi vs itachi fights, pein looked like an amateur in taijustu/movement compared to a 30% substitute.
Nagato has access to the Paths' viewpoints, and since he is the one controlling them, he is the one who coordinates those viewpoints in such a way to eliminate blind spots. Think of each Path's sight as a camera, and Nagato as a guy in a room looking at each camera at once. The cameras do not share what they see with each other. They can't, they're just cameras. Nagato is there to figure out what to do with what they see.
Except Nagato does not share his mind with the Paths. The Paths still have their own minds, they just also happen to be dead (therefore they possess no consciousness of their own). Therefore genjutsu can only affect their minds since Nagato's happens to be untraceable.
Lies, all you've been posting is your own bullsh*t theories
*Sees Deva Path take 2 kicks from someone who casually throws boss summons into the clouds*
*Sees him blasted back from the force of his own repelled Shinra Tensei*
*Sees Deva Path lose part of his cloak and headband from taking part of an explosion of a Bijuu bomb*
*Claims they were all close call hits*
So you don't understand the meaning of "one-shotted". Concession accepted.
Even if it breaks bones or receivers, if you don't feel pain you still will be able to move.
Or maybe Nagato values that body the most of the Paths due to its ability to bring back the other Paths and would prefer if it got damaged as little as possible.
He got hit with a premature rasengan from konohamaru and yet he still was able to revive the paths:
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Fun fact: usually you need lungs to speak. Lungs that are not full of sword.
As for the rest, Nagato implanted chakra receivers in various places on the bodies of his Paths. Receivers which were probably damaged the moment Jiraiya drove a large sword through them. Hence those were what were recovered by Hell Path.
a few Chakra receivers being damage doesn't shut down the body completely, in fact Jiraiya's sword isn't going to damage those chakra receivers anyway.
It took naruto's frog kumite to break those receivers.
... what?
Edo Tensei brings back the souls of the deceased and binds them to "immortal" bodies. The souls are the exact reason why Obito's Paths have consciousness. Take away Obito's chakra broadcasting to his Paths and you have Edo jinchuriki with individual personalities and the ability to control their bodies to the extent the caster of Edo Tensei allows.
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. There is literally no way to argue against that.
The edo tensei weren't even mobile as soon as naruto took out the stakes.
The edo tensei bodies didn't even have a conscious, that was all the bijuus
If they all had conscious, they would of been talking or help bee and naruto like the rest of the edo tensei's
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You asked for a scan proving that Nagato can hear what the Paths hear.
I refer to every time Nagato holds a conversation through his Paths as proof, even citing a page where Nagato, through a Path, was able to tell Jiraiya was using a sound genjutsu. Because you know, you kinda need to be able to hear what the other guy is saying in order to have a conversation with him.
You say that is not proof, that it was not explicitly stated in the manga, blah blah blah. Thus, if Nagato can't hear what the Paths hear, then he must be a lip reader. And psychic, for all those times he "heard" things without looking at someone's lips.
If nagato can "hear," through his paths that means he can also "hear," the the frog genjustu and get cauht.
Like posted before, I either get substantial manga proof, or gtfo with whatever retort that you come up with.
noob mistake 101
... the chakra Nagato is broadcasting to the chakra rods enable him to speak through his Paths.
The chakra Nagato is broadcasting to the chakra receivers on the Paths is the reason he can access the Path's senses. That chakra happens to be untraceable unless you're a Perfect Sage like Naruto who stabbed himself with one of Nagato's chakra rods. Therefore genjutsu will not reach Nagato himself.
Since when does seeing chakra and sensors become the same thing?
So because you think that only sagemode sensor can reach nagato, you think a genjustu won't affect nagato?
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Stfu, even pain said that he got caught in the genjustu here, which literally contradict your stupid statment of nagato not being able to be caught in a genjustu.
I'm looking right here nagato being caught in a genjustu and admitting it too.
Via using Sharingan genjutsu on one ninja, then using Sharingan genjutsu on another.
You can't use a sharingan genjustu through a ninja who dosen't have a sharingan.
what the f*ck is your logic?
I'm questioning your thought process because this is absurd and stupid
So said ninja had to be looking at Kakashi's Sharingan in order to fall under said genjutsu. Which means if the Paths don't look at Itachi's eyes they'll not be at risk of falling under genjutsu. Which also means this "mass-control" genjutsu you keep talking about has no actual basis in fact. Concession accepted
*Sees a databook scan expanding on an event in the manga where a Sharingan genjutsu was broken via biting your lip*
*Still refuses to believe that Sharingan genjutsu can be broken in ways other than the partner method*
You know, you could have just said you don't care what the manga says. At least then it'll be more honest.
^^ Read this and quite your quailing, databook agrees with everything I posted
Different situation. Orochimaru did not have a body at the verge of rejecting him when he was fighting Itachi. Neither was Itachi under Oro's ritual. Neither were his arms sealed. Neither was he in his White Snake form when the genjutsu was cast.
Something he could have easily done with Nagato, Konan and Yahiko, seeing that he wanted them to be able to fend for themselves against other ninja in a country that was a magnet for war.
look at all the ironic statements, and then this one right here
Sick Itachi is going to use Amaterasu 4 times nonstop when using it twice had him on his knees while fighting Sasuke? Cool story bro.
Nevermind the fact Animal Path could either pre-empt an Amaterasu with a Panda Summon, or hide in the chameleon summon whilst spamming other summons, which Itachi will have to take care of again with Amaterasu if he wants to get rid of them.
Hell Path is going to be protected by Deva Path wherever he goes. Itachi is not going to be able to take him out with Deva Path there ready to send him and Amaterasu flying with boss-toad level Shinra Tenseis. Thus he'll be free to bring back any defeated Paths.
Any other Path can be saved by Preta Path absorbing the flames.
Totsuka has only successfully caught stationary opponents. Again, the Paths can dodge. Nevermind the fact that the longer he stays in Susano'o, the sooner he dies.
Konan's also in this matchup, as per the stipulations of the first post.
Itachi wins. We have NEVER seen him fight seriously.
Edo Itachi said himself that he didn't wanna kill Kabutomaru, and
Itachi never took Kakashi nor Sasuke seriously when he was SICK.
Totsuka Blade kills Pain even if he's using Shinra Tensei (6 Tailed Naruto surpassed Shinra Tensei and Totsuka blade is stronger than 6 Tailed Naruto) and defends himself from all the paths with his Yata Mirror. Also, if Pain used Chibaku Tensei, Itachi would just destroy it with the Totsuka Blade before it got too big.
Serious and healthy Itachi = Nagato > Healthy Itachi > Sick-but-serious Itachi > Pain > Sick-but-toying Itachi = Pain > HEBI Sasuke
We've never seen Itachi trying, but we know that he's had many chances to kill his enemies and yet he never takes them (and this is the rather obvious reason why we know Itachi hasn't tried, especially because he's never bloodlusted or wants to kill anybody).
