Did Madara just confirm that Gai matches SM Hashirama?

[3MESSIAH]

Hiruzen only had to do that because he was blinded

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This is the RDS


And just like 8 gates, it doesn't kill you instantly. Noone uses rds because it's a suicide technique, 8 gates is a suicide technique. People need to get over it. 7 gates at max is applicable is vs threads, unless you are going for a draw battle

sorry,i was wrong there.

but i still think SM reactions and speed alone could provide evasion from the RDS. i am saying it isnt as OP as you claim it to be.

8th gate however is.

you have your way of looking at versus debates and i have mine.yours defines a fight in a real life situation(etc.gai uses 8th gate,dies and can no longer compete against another opponent) mine defines a fight in a sort of arena staged situation(etc.gai uses 8th gate,beats someone,gets rejuvenated,and fights again)

so our top 10 must be quite different

 

[Owarij]

Except that no one's going to let Minato be stationary and make the required hand seals for RDS, which is why it's only convenient when the enemy is subdued. 8 Gates is part of Gai's arsenal and is completely applicable in a battle. A tie implies both opponents killed each other which isn't the case.

Noone said he had to be stationary when casting the jutsu. I don't know what nonsense about subduing you're talking about, as soon as he finishes the seal, there's an invisible attack coming at you, that you can't predict, you can't see, there's nothing you can do about it .
Orochimaru didn't realize what was going on until it was already too late. RDS is a part of both hiruzen and minato's arsenal, and when they use it.
Just like 8 gates
They kill you , then shortly after, the die from its use
It is no different from the death Gate, In which you kill the person, then shortly after you die from its use

Only fanboyism would not see the similarity

And if you're arguing that Minato , a kage level ninja can't pull off 10 seals (Which they do in a second or less)
I have no more responses for you.

but i still think SM reactions and speed alone could provide evasion from the RDS. i am saying it isnt as OP as you claim it to be.

Once again, You can't see the rds until it touches you, and when it does, your ability to use ninjutsu etc is gone, and you can only stand as your soul gets pulled out
Avoiding an invisible attack would require some level of clairvoyance that has not yet been displayed by any character in the manga

 

[3MESSIAH]

Noone said he had to be stationary when casting the jutsu. I don't know what nonsense about subduing you're talking about, as soon as he finishes the seal, there's an invisible attack coming at you, that you can't predict, you can't see, there's nothing you can do about it .
Orochimaru didn't realize what was going on until it was already too late. RDS is a part of both hiruzen and minato's arsenal, and when they use it.
Just like 8 gates
They kill you , then shortly after, the die from its use
It is no different from the death Gate, In which you kill the person, then shortly after you die from its use

Only fanboyism would not see the similarity

And if you're arguing that Minato , a kage level ninja can't pull off 10 seals (Which they do in a second or less)
I have no more responses for you.




Once again, You can't see the rds until it touches you, and when it does, your ability to use ninjutsu etc is gone, and you can only stand as your soul gets pulled out
Avoiding an invisible attack would require some level of clairvoyance that has not yet been displayed by any character in the manga

forgot that it is invisible XD damn i feel like an idiot now....however one doesnt need to avoid it to win....by having great speed(naruto`s shuunshin) or great power(perfect susanoo) one can attack minato before RDS reaches him which would mean minato has to get away and waste his RDS attempt....but having no knowledge about RDS certainly is a great disadvantage against anyone who faces minato

 

[Touken]

Noone said he had to be stationary when casting the jutsu. I don't know what nonsense about subduing you're talking about, as soon as he finishes the seal, there's an invisible attack coming at you, that you can't predict, you can't see, there's nothing you can do about it .
Orochimaru didn't realize what was going on until it was already too late. RDS is a part of both hiruzen and minato's arsenal, and when they use it.

lol, you're acting as if the opponent isn't going to exert any pressure on Minato whatsoever. The only reason Hiruzen was able to pull it off was because Orochimaru was toying with him. Minato pulled it off because Kurama was subdued.

Just like 8 gates
They kill you , then shortly after, the die from its use
It is no different from the death Gate, In which you kill the person, then shortly after you die from its use

Only fanboyism would not see the similarity

And if you're arguing that Minato , a kage level ninja can't pull off 10 seals (Which they do in a second or less)
I have no more responses for you.

Again, it's not applicable in battle. It leaves him wide open if he's going up against opponents who can devastate the landscape, so in most cases, he'd die before the Shinigami can pull out the opponent's soul which is done at Minato's command. You're under the impression the opponent would simply stand there while Minato activates his technique.

 

[Owarij]

impression the opponent would simply stand there while Minato activates his technique.

What can the opponent do to minato before he finishes 10 seals? By your logic, no opponent in this manga can cast a jutsu, because their opponent will stop it. You do realize Minato has v2 level reflexes, you do realize he has ftg?
You're clinging to some argument that he will not be able to pull the technique off in battle. Which is not only bs, but isn't the point.

The point is that the technique is suicide, and isn't used in versus threads, go check for yourself. The technique kills the victim, then shortly after kills the user. Just like gates, which (Possibly) will kill the victim, then surely after kills the user.
There is no difference in these techniques. Suicide techniques are suicide techniques. They aren't wins, they are draws

 

[Touken]

What can the opponent do to minato before he finishes 10 seals? By your logic, no opponent in this manga can cast a jutsu, because their opponent will stop it. You do realize Minato has v2 level reflexes, you do realize he has ftg?
You're clinging to some argument that he will not be able to pull the technique off in battle. Which is not only bs, but isn't the point.

The point is that the technique is suicide, and isn't used in versus threads, go check for yourself. The technique kills the victim, then shortly after kills the user. Just like gates, which (Possibly) will kill the victim, then surely after kills the user.
There is no difference in these techniques. Suicide techniques are suicide techniques. They aren't wins, they are draws

He isn't activating FTG while he's performing seals for RDS. That goes against the manga. He has no way to protect himself and once he's actually cast RDS, he still has to command the Shinigami to take the soul of who Minato wishes, something he isn't going to be able to do once he's left a smear on the ground by, like I've said before, techniques that devastate the landscape. He wouldn't be able to kill EMS Madara with RDS if Madara has PS out.

There's a difference between a draw and killing an opponent and then succumbing to wounds or a technique. By that logic, high diff scenarios are ties, because if both opponents inflict devastating damage to each other, they'd eventually die too. For example, Sasuke beat Itachi, but without any outside help, he'd have eventually died to his wounds [

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].

 

[3MESSIAH]

He isn't activating FTG while he's performing seals for RDS. That goes against the manga. He has no way to protect himself and once he's actually cast RDS, he still has to command the Shinigami to take the soul of who Minato wishes, something he isn't going to be able to do once he's left a smear on the ground by, like I've said before, techniques that devastate the landscape. He wouldn't be able to kill EMS Madara with RDS if Madara has PS out.

There's a difference between a draw and killing an opponent and then succumbing to wounds or a technique. By that logic, high diff scenarios are ties, because if both opponents inflict devastating damage to each other, they'd eventually die too. For example, Sasuke beat Itachi, but without any outside help, he'd have eventually died to his wounds [

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completely agree with this

 

[KingHashirama]

i see your point...however....hashi`s SM grants the user faster reactions and death reaper seal would be avoided

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even if it`s suicidal in the end gai would win before he died.so it would be a victory for him so to speak,even if he dies after that

Nope sadly nope.

It would be considered a fact, that Hashirama or whoever faced Gai, forced gai to commit suicide to even have the chance to take them out.

 

[3MESSIAH]

Nope sadly nope.

It would be considered a fact, that Hashirama or whoever faced Gai, forced gai to commit suicide to even have the chance to take them out.

and that exact suicide would occur seconds,minutes after when gai defeated hashirama or whoever he was facing.so it still counts as a victory.

 

[Owarij]

He isn't activating FTG while he's performing seals for RDS. That goes against the manga. He has no way to protect himself and once he's actually cast RDS, he still has to command the Shinigami to take the soul of who Minato wishes, something he isn't going to be able to do once he's left a smear on the ground by, like I've said before, techniques that devastate the landscape. He wouldn't be able to kill EMS Madara with RDS if Madara has PS out.

There's a difference between a draw and killing an opponent and then succumbing to wounds or a technique. By that logic, high diff scenarios are ties, because if both opponents inflict devastating damage to each other, they'd eventually die too. For example, Sasuke beat Itachi, but without any outside help, he'd have eventually died to his wounds [

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].

Except we aren't talking about battle wounds, We are talking about Suicide techniques , Abilities that specifically kill the user once executed.

He isn't activating FTG while he's performing seals for RDS

Ftg is an ability that doesn't require seals. You can use two abilities at the same time, we 've seen Sasuke using Susanno and amaterasu, as well as many other ninjas doing similar things

He wouldn't be able to kill EMS Madara with RDS if Madara has PS out.

Once again, ridiculous, The death god is a spiritual entity, according to the databook, not made of chakra. Like dan's soul, it would be able to easily go through physical objects

something he isn't going to be able to do once he's left a smear on the ground by,

I really don't think you're getting the point .
I don't care if Minato gets destroyed before he uses rds. As far as i'm concerned, Sure, there might be ninjas who can do that. Just like there might be ninjas who can destroy guy before he enters the Gates. That's not the point. The point is that once you use a suicide technique and it's sucessful in killing your target. It doesn't constitute as a win, It's a draw. Since the postrequisite of the technique itself is DEATH

 

[KingHashirama]

and that exact suicide would occur seconds,minutes after when gai defeated hashirama or whoever he was facing.so it still counts as a victory.

It doesn't matter. And also, someone like Hashirama can simply trick gai with wood clones..Naruto can do the same.. and so on.

Victory is determined by no deaths.. not both ends at suicide.

Gai might have killed someone with a technique.. however he had to kill himself in the process also. Hence at the best it is a draw. That person who Gai is facing FORCED gai to kill himself.. Gai had no choice but to kill himself.


Its like me stabbing you in the heart while you cutting my head off.. you will obviously survive for couple of seconds or minutes.. however i killed you..

 

[Owarij]

It doesn't matter. And also, someone like Hashirama can simply trick gai with wood clones..Naruto can do the same.. and so on.

Victory is determined by no deaths.. not both ends at suicide.

Gai might have killed someone with a technique.. however he had to kill himself in the process also. Hence at the best it is a draw. That person who Gai is facing FORCED gai to kill himself.. Gai had no choice but to kill himself.


Its like me stabbing you in the heart while you cutting my head off.. you will obviously survive for couple of seconds or minutes.. however i killed you..

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
The entire situation with Muu and the 2nd Mizukage was based off of this. They both killed each other. There was no winner. They simply both killed each other that day. It doesn't matter who died first, or last. It was a draw. Noone came out victorious


This is even more so the case with a technique that specifically kills you. It doesn't in any way put you above the person you're fighting, it's a cheap move at ending the fight in a stale mate, a last ditch effort

 

[KingHashirama]

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
The entire situation with Muu and the 2nd Mizukage was based off of this. They both killed each other. There was no winner. They simply both killed each other that day. It doesn't matter who died first, or last. It was a draw. Noone came out victorious


This is even more so the case with a technique that specifically kills you. It doesn't in any way put you above the person you're fighting, it's a cheap move at ending the fight in a stale mate, a last ditch effort

precisely. I think people are determining this by how Kubo did the Ichigo vs Kenpachi fight. Though Kenpachi was the last man standing , he apparently lost. Because he sword was broken, while Ichigo was knocked out. In this case they are trying to say oh it doesn't matter if Gai is going to die or is forced to commit suicide, he still kills the other guy.

But sh*t i had totally forgot about the Muu and mizukage fight thing.

 

[3MESSIAH]

It doesn't matter. And also, someone like Hashirama can simply trick gai with wood clones..Naruto can do the same.. and so on.

Victory is determined by no deaths.. not both ends at suicide.

Gai might have killed someone with a technique.. however he had to kill himself in the process also. Hence at the best it is a draw. That person who Gai is facing FORCED gai to kill himself.. Gai had no choice but to kill himself.


Its like me stabbing you in the heart while you cutting my head off.. you will obviously survive for couple of seconds or minutes.. however i killed you..

the bold is entirely your perspective and not a general one.if that were true then you cant say hashirama beat madara.hashirama collapsed from exhaustion and would most probably die if there wasnt for mito or whoever else went after him...but still hashi beat madara.that`s how it is

if what you wrote was true then there`s literally not a possible concept of high diff

and about the clones...i will admit it`s a way to outlast gai but gai will probably blitz and destroy the entire area and an opponent as a counter


and gai kills himself in this scenario...it`s not like he`s killed by another opponent.

 

[Prince Charles]

It seems my judgement regarding KH was misguided he seem's more intelligent today=D

OT: I agree with Owarij and Kinghashirama(surprisingly)

 

[KingHashirama]

the bold is entirely your perspective and not a general one.if that were true then you cant say hashirama beat madara.hashirama collapsed from exhaustion and would most probably die if there wasnt for mito or whoever else went after him...but still hashi beat madara.that`s how it is

if what you wrote was true then there`s literally not a possible concept of high diff

and about the clones...i will admit it`s a way to outlast gai but gai will probably blitz and destroy the entire area and an opponent as a counter


and gai kills himself in this scenario...it`s not like he`s killed by another opponent.

It isn't my perspective, but a law of a fight to death. Now please show me where Hashirama collapsed.. And now show me where Mito helped him get back up.

No he is forced to kill himself.. Which is done by the opponent.. Either way it is because of the opponent he dies.. Same concept as RDS.. suicide.

It seems my judgement regarding KH was misguided he seem's more intelligent today=D

OT: I agree with Owarij and Kinghashirama(surprisingly)

We simply tend to have different opinions and takes on most things. Probably due to how we view things.

 

[3MESSIAH]

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
The entire situation with Muu and the 2nd Mizukage was based off of this. They both killed each other. There was no winner. They simply both killed each other that day. It doesn't matter who died first, or last. It was a draw. Noone came out victorious


This is even more so the case with a technique that specifically kills you. It doesn't in any way put you above the person you're fighting, it's a cheap move at ending the fight in a stale mate, a last ditch effort

i totally understand your thinking.it`s just that our perspectives about the result of the fights are different.

where i say gai beats an opponent thus declaring himself the victor in terms of power in combat and dying after it,you say that even though gai defeats his opponent the match ends in a draw because gai`s technique kills him from exhaustion afterwards....as i said our ways of looking at the fight itself is different

 

[3MESSIAH]

It isn't my perspective, but a law of a fight to death. Now please show me where Hashirama collapsed.. And now show me where Mito helped him get back up.

No he is forced to kill himself.. Which is done by the opponent.. Either way it is because of the opponent he dies.. Same concept as RDS.. suicide.




We simply tend to have different opinions and takes on most things. Probably due to how we view things.

i seemed to have mixed up sth.hashirama didnt collapse,he was just exhausted.but you do get my point there??

let me try with a different example.....sasuke was a victor in his fight with itachi...but collapsed afterwards and would have died if obito hadnt saved him.....so by your way of thinking this would be a draw....which is not wrong or right..i am simply saying we have different views about it....in my view sasuke did defeat itachi,even though he collapsed after and would undoubtedly die by himself

i think the same with gai

 

[KingHashirama]

i seemed to have mixed up sth.hashirama didnt collapse,he was just exhausted.but you do get my point there??

let me try with a different example.....sasuke was a victor in his fight with itachi...but collapsed afterwards and would have died if obito hadnt saved him.....so by your way of thinking this would be a draw....which is not wrong or right..i am simply saying we have different views about it....in my view sasuke did defeat itachi,even though he collapsed after and would undoubtedly die by himself

i think the same with gai

But everyone is exhausted after a fight like that. While you do realize Hashirama had no intentions of killing Madara until the very end, while the later had intentions of killing Hashirama throughout the whole fight..

But nowhere is it stated he would have died lol. Obito simply wanted to get to him before Naruto and Kakashi could. And also, its more like Itachi let him win. However, Sasuke was the winner and the one who forced Itachi's death.

You seem to believe collapsing = dieing.. while that is against any fighting logic.

And you do understand that Gai's opponent is the one who caused Gai to use the gate of suicide right? Gai didn't plain out say hey i can beat this guy without suiciding, but i'm still gonna commit suicide just to take him down.

Also, for Itachi.. people can say he had a disease thats why he died and so on. But Sasuke is the reason Itachi died at that time. Otherwise Itachi would still be alive, though in a bad state.

 

[Haizaki]

Lol 8th gates is part of Gai's arsenal..whether he dies or not..if it's capable of making him above an opponent is what matters..RDS?..pleasee...let's talk about how MS users are supposed to be blind with continuous use of their eyes