Anyone find these panels overly suspicious?

Floydical

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
4,030
Kin
5💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
In chapter 661, Tobirama ambushes Madara. Madara seems to gain the advantage but Tobirama follows it up with a Minato style counter:
You must be registered for see images


Even considering Madara's experience fighting the Senju Brothers, one would assume Madara would take a direct hit from this counter. However, Kishi decides to leave us in the dark for a single panel, and proceeds to show Tobirama flat on his face one panel later:

You must be registered for see images



We can assume this is less than a minute later, perhaps seconds later, yet Madara completely turned the tide of the battle, managed to skewer Tobirama with a dozen black rods, and all without taking a hit.

On top of all this, Madara states some very ambiguous and overly suspicious thngs like, "The heavens have smiled upon me" and speaks of coincidence and fate. Is it just me or is genjutsu involved here? However, if it was simply normal genjutsu (like Madara casting a well timed genjutu on Tobirama to surprise him), Kishi would have simply showed it on panel like he always does. But no, Kishi decides to leave it a complete mystery with no evidence that Madara used a normal Genjutsu.

Is it the Tsukuyomi? If so is Madara controlling it? Based on how totally defeated Obito is there is no way he is controlling it. But why would Madara speak of fate and coincidence in such a strange way if he's controlling it? Is he simply being ironic by implying fate when he's actually controlling it all? Or is it something else? Is some greater power controlling a large scale Genjutsu? Is this power siding with Madara and letting him win at the moment?

I get the feeling more and more that some form of genjutsu is occurring right now. But considering Madara's actions and statements, I am not sure he is the actual orchestrator. Is anyone else suspicious of these panels and Madara's actions/ statements?

I suppose its also possible for a panel to be missing in this chapter (it has happened before) but I honestly don't think there is a missing panel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jiraiya lives

UchihaNagashi

Banned
Elite
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
5,563
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I agree. There's something fishy there.

Tobirama should have beaten the shit out of Madara by manga facts. The fact that he actually lost, means he got momentary back-up from Zetsu, I suppose. Actually, even that's not enough.

He may have controlled Hashirama to summon the Buddha and put Tobirama in pinch.

You have good eyes my brother. This thread deserves 6 stars and ultra rep.​
 

The Necromancer

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
18,138
Kin
0💸
Kumi
2,500💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I agree. There's something fishy there.

Tobirama should have beaten the shit out of Madara by manga facts. The fact that he actually lost, means he got momentary back-up from Zetsu, I suppose. Actually, even that's not enough.

He may have controlled Hashirama to summon the Buddha and put Tobirama in pinch.

You have good eyes my brother. This thread deserves 6 stars and ultra rep.
By what manga facts...? :|

Madara was far better than Tobirama in life, and now he has everything Hashirama did, who was also better than Tobirama while alive. This fight went exactly as it should have.
 

AllomnisymbolsparttwoT

Banned
Elite
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
5,247
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
In chapter 661, Tobirama ambushes Madara. Madara seems to gain the advantage but Tobirama follows it up with a Minato style counter:
You must be registered for see images


Even considering Madara's experience fighting the Senju Brothers, one would assume Madara would take a direct hit from this counter. However, Kishi decides to leave us in the dark for a single panel, and proceeds to show Tobirama flat on his face one panel later:

You must be registered for see images



We can assume this is less than a minute later, perhaps seconds later, yet Madara completely turned the tide of the battle, managed to skewer Tobirama with a dozen black rods, and all without taking a hit.

On top of all this, Madara states some very ambiguous and overly suspicious thngs like, "The heavens have smiled upon me" and speaks of coincidence and fate. Is it just me or is genjutsu involved here? However, if it was simply normal genjutsu (like Madara casting a well timed genjutu on Tobirama to surprise him), Kishi would have simply showed it on panel like he always does. But no, Kishi decides to leave it a complete mystery with no evidence that Madara used a normal Genjutsu.

Is it the Tsukuyomi? If so is Madara controlling it? Based on how totally defeated Obito is there is no way he is controlling it. But why would Madara speak of fate and coincidence in such a strange way if he's controlling it? Is he simply being ironic by implying fate when he's actually controlling it all? Or is it something else? Is some greater power controlling a large scale Genjutsu? Is this power siding with Madara and letting him win at the moment?

I get the feeling more and more that some form of genjutsu is occurring right now. But considering Madara's actions and statements, I am not sure he is the actual orchestrator. Is anyone else suspicious of these panels and Madara's actions/ statements?

I suppose its also possible for a panel to be missing in this chapter (it has happened before) but I honestly don't think there is a missing panel.
-_- Dude... watch madara hand closely. before the last panel.. there is no hidden thing there.... a black rod was coming out of madara's palm and it touched tobirama. thus we get the panel with only a kunai

and the second to last panel In this thread proves it by showing a long black rod already out from maddy's hand


WATCH HIS PALM

You must be registered for see images
[/IMG]
 
Last edited:

fati

Active member
Regular
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
532
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
As you can read there in the same page, madara has knowledge on tobirama's style and has seen this type of attack from him before.
 

RikudouMadara

Active member
Elite
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,169
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I feel at this moment anything can happen. Though....I feel Madara is saying luck is on his side because of everything he's done to get to this point worked out for him so far.
 

BlacLord™

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
16,201
Kin
22💸
Kumi
12💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
The fight continued off-panel, I think you're reading too much into it.

Madara is on a whole other level now, you could say that Madara defeating him and Hashirama is Kishimoto's way of demonstrating how much more powerful Madara has become since revival/SM. Plus, Tobirama/Hashirama can't 'feel' like Alive Madara can either.

I think Tobirama just let his guard down prematurely.
 

RikudouMadara

Active member
Elite
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,169
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I agree. There's something fishy there.

Tobirama should have beaten the shit out of Madara by manga facts. The fact that he actually lost, means he got momentary back-up from Zetsu, I suppose. Actually, even that's not enough.

He may have controlled Hashirama to summon the Buddha and put Tobirama in pinch.

You have good eyes my brother. This thread deserves 6 stars and ultra rep.

By what manga facts...? :|

Madara was far better than Tobirama in life, and now he has everything Hashirama did, who was also better than Tobirama while alive. This fight went exactly as it should have.
Yes.....I'm at a lost....Necro imo is correct. By what Manga facts put Tobirama above Madara at anytime in the Manga?
 

Floydical

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
4,030
Kin
5💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I agree. There's something fishy there.

Tobirama should have beaten the shit out of Madara by manga facts. The fact that he actually lost, means he got momentary back-up from Zetsu, I suppose. Actually, even that's not enough.

He may have controlled Hashirama to summon the Buddha and put Tobirama in pinch.

You have good eyes my brother. This thread deserves 6 stars and ultra rep.
Thank you.

By what manga facts...? :|

Madara was far better than Tobirama in life, and now he has everything Hashirama did, who was also better than Tobirama while alive. This fight went exactly as it should have.
I agree with him that by manga facts Madara should have taken a hit here. However you slice it, Madara was surprised by Tobirama here. But instead of taking a hit, or even a glancing hit, he took no damage at all. Its not even shown that he used a simple genjutsu (which Kishi always shows in fights like this). Yet Madara somehow comes out on top seconds later having Tobirama completely subdued. What I'm saying is that the haste of the situation and speed of the tide changing implies something fishy occurred.

-_- Dude... watch madara hand closely. before the last panel.. there is no hidden thing there.... a black rod was coming out of madara's palm and it touched tobirama. thus we get the panel with only a kunai

and the second to last panel proves it by showing a long black already out from maddy's hand
What? I'm not talking about the black rod. Madara used the black rod to try to counter Tobirama's first move, but what I'm talking about is how he managed to counter Tobirama's counter.

As you can read there in the same page, madara has knowledge on tobirama's style and has seen this type of attack from him before.
But Madara was clearly surprised (the ! proves it) and yet takes no damage. More over, there is nothing to show HOW he actually turned the tide in a matter of seconds, hence why it is suspicious. Feels like I just keep repeating myself.
 
Last edited:

AllomnisymbolsparttwoT

Banned
Elite
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
5,247
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
What? I'm not talking about the black rod. Madara used the black rod to try to counter Tobirama's first move, but what I'm talking about is how he managed to counter Tobirama's counter..
he managed to do it by touching him with THE BLACK ROD In the first attack. thus we see all those black rods on tobirama. it's already known fact that the rods can maniuplate things it touches. again it shows there is no hidden thing
 

The Necromancer

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
18,138
Kin
0💸
Kumi
2,500💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I agree with him that by manga facts Madara should have taken a hit here. However you slice it, Madara was surprised by Tobirama here. But instead of taking a hit, or even a glancing hit, he took no damage at all. Its not even shown that he used a simple genjutsu (which Kishi always shows in fights like this). Yet Madara somehow comes out on top seconds later having Tobirama completely subdued. What I'm saying is that the haste of the situation and speed of the tide changing implies something fishy occurred.
It's one of any number of logical explanations.

-Deva Path
-Sage Mode Reactions
-Sharingan Precognition Reactions
-Simple Taijutsu Superiority
-Hashirama Regeneration healing any damage he may have taken, making it look like he didn't get a scratch on him
-Susano'o
-Shunshin faster than Sage Mode Naruto can counter
-Mokuton Spawning

Take your pick. You can't just say it's BS because you didn't see it. Logically and factually, Madara is leagues above Tobirama.
 

BlacLord™

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
16,201
Kin
22💸
Kumi
12💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
By what manga facts...? :|

Madara was far better than Tobirama in life, and now he has everything Hashirama did, who was also better than Tobirama while alive. This fight went exactly as it should have.
In life, he was never far better than him and he was above MS Madara, even EMS Madara wasn't very far in front of him. It was Edo Madara and after that he overtook him by a great deal.

Madara himself acknowledges Tobirama's strength and even categorises him with Hashirama.
 

The Necromancer

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
18,138
Kin
0💸
Kumi
2,500💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
In life, he was never far better than him and he was above MS Madara, even EMS Madara wasn't very far in front of him. It was Edo Madara and after that he overtook him by a great deal.

Madara himself acknowledges Tobirama's strength and even categorises him with Hashirama.
Not anywhere near enough to call auto BS because Tobirama was defeated off panel.
 

AllomnisymbolsparttwoT

Banned
Elite
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
5,247
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
In life, he was never far better than him and he was above MS Madara, even EMS Madara wasn't very far in front of him. It was Edo Madara and after that he overtook him by a great deal.

Madara himself acknowledges Tobirama's strength and even categorises him with Hashirama.
orly?? how about this.. it seems tobirama failed to defeat maddy

You must be registered for see images
 
Top