Anyone find these panels overly suspicious?

[Touken]

Refer to the thread in my sig.

He used a Deva Path technique to immobilize him.

 

[BlacLord™]

orly?? how about this.. it seems tobirama failed to defeat maddy

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Because Madara was always tailing Hashirama and vice-versa.

And it really depends on how you interpret the emphasis:

"Madara... This time I'll defeat you."
"Madara... This time I'll defeat you."
"Madara... This time I'll​ defeat you."

 

[Floydical]

For everyone saying he countered with Deva Path or Susano'o or whatever, the fact is it was not shown, making it SUSPICIOUS. Kishi could have very quickly shown him using one of these techs and created the circumstances that lead to the next page. But instead he decided to leave it ambiguous. My point is that doing it like he did makes it possible that some form of Genjutsu was involved.

All of you seem to ignore that Madara could, and was, surprised by Tobirama. Doesn't matter how much stronger or how much more experienced an individual is, a pebble can still take down a giant if its thrown with great accuracy.

 

[Touken]

For everyone saying he countered with Deva Path or Susano'o or whatever, the fact is it was not shown, making it SUSPICIOUS. Kishi could have very quickly shown him using one of these techs and created the circumstances that lead to the next page. But instead he decided to leave it ambiguous. My point is that doing it like he did makes it possible that some form of Genjutsu was involved.

All of you seem to ignore that Madara could, and was, surprised by Tobirama. Doesn't matter how much stronger or how much more experienced an individual is, a pebble can still take down a giant if its thrown with great accuracy.

Everything points to Madara using a Deva Path technique to take down Tobirama.

 

[flyboyissac]

Madara has like 30 different techniques and growing he can use but this is still intresting

 

[Draw]

By what manga facts...? :|

Madara was far better than Tobirama in life, and now he has everything Hashirama did, who was also better than Tobirama while alive. This fight went exactly as it should have.

Hahahahahah

 

[adeshina365]

You're reading too much into it. Madara beat him, plain and simple.

 

[Mr Hiru]

You're reading too much into it. Madara beat him, plain and simple.

But the panel still earns some credits. This observation seems to be likely, since Kishimoto style of writting do these things at times (very often, lately).

 

[adeshina365]

But the panel still earns some credits. This observation seems to be likely, since Kishimoto style of writting do these things at times (very often, lately).

Kishimoto would provide a clear-cut hint if that were the case (ala Madara vs. Hashirama VOTE battle).

 

[valandil988]

Its plenty obvious that Madara can produce the black rods from any part of his body. Hence if you notice the way Tobirama is stabbed with the rods in the next panel they splay out from a central point somewhere below Tobirama.

Like this \|/ Hence in order for Madara to produce this effect in seconds from panel to panel Madara must have produced the rods from his back in order to pierce Tobirama multiple times in mid air. Hence the near instant defeat.

 

[sammypt Miyamoto Musashi]

Ok, so here's my explanation as to how we went from one panel showing Madara about to skewer Tobirama, to Madara gloating over a very punctured, porcupine-like Tobirama... After Tobirama teleported to kunai and was coming down on Madara, 2 or 3 things happened: Madara used rinnegan hyped reflexes to read Tobirama's movements- even tho he was "surprised", he simply did some fancy, body-contorting dodging while multi-stabbing the black rods into Tobirama. 2) The power he used to paralyze Sasuke was used on Tobirama- altho I think unlikely without at least 1 panel in between with Tobirama "reacting" to his body being unable to move while he was mid-air. My 3rd possible explanation hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, and that's the one that takes their surroundings into play. They are on the surface of the Gedo statue correct? The black rods can come out of the statue per Madara's will right? Therefore it would be possible that while Madara was mid-air along with Tobirama that he "called out" or whatever for the black rods to come out from the statue. Or maybe the statue could "sense" it's master/controller in trouble and reacted by itself in that fashion. There are still unanswered questions and powers pertaining to that statue. I don't personally believe this theory of the others but just that it seems like something that could possibly have happened. IMO it was my first thought: The use of hyper reflexes, fueled by having rinnegan. Madara knows of Tobi's FTG technique because that's what killed his bro. Even tho it may surprise him at first, a split second is all he'd need to counter it since in his mind he was possibly expecting Tobirama to use it. Lol Yeah, yeah, now I'm trying to read Madara's mind @.@ haha

 

[Mr Hiru]

Kishimoto would provide a clear-cut hint if that were the case (ala Madara vs. Hashirama VOTE battle).

Point taken... that's also a very valid point.

 

[EternalFlame]

Yeah...

I agree...

The master of genjutsu is lurking. Even death can't stop him.

 

[6PathsofKami]

You're over complicating things by reading into it too much he was just stating it in terms if how he is back to life now and how everything turned out in his favour even after Obito betrayed him, a bit of luck was involved.

 

[Draxus]

Your suspicions are unfounded. Kishi also didn't show how he finished of the Kage, or how Kakashi finished off the 7 swordsman. We see Madara has the ability to completely immobilize people as he did w/ Sasuke, there's no reason to believe there is some genjutsu at work.

 

[Ψ Veritas Ψ]

there is nothing fishy here, madara simply kicked all your favorite characters to the ground and you simply cant handle it.

 

[Floydical]

Madara soloed Tobirama , that's just the way it is , DEAL WITH IT U_U

there is nothing fishy here, madara simply kicked all your favorite characters to the ground and you simply cant handle it.

Lol at people trying to say I'm a butthurt fanboy. I don't care that Tobirama was defeated by Madara, I care that his defeat was left very open-ended and therefore it comes off as very suspicious to me.

Its plenty obvious that Madara can produce the black rods from any part of his body. Hence if you notice the way Tobirama is stabbed with the rods in the next panel they splay out from a central point somewhere below Tobirama.

Like this \|/ Hence in order for Madara to produce this effect in seconds from panel to panel Madara must have produced the rods from his back in order to pierce Tobirama multiple times in mid air. Hence the near instant defeat.

Ok, so here's my explanation as to how we went from one panel showing Madara about to skewer Tobirama, to Madara gloating over a very punctured, porcupine-like Tobirama... After Tobirama teleported to kunai and was coming down on Madara, 2 or 3 things happened: Madara used rinnegan hyped reflexes to read Tobirama's movements- even tho he was "surprised", he simply did some fancy, body-contorting dodging while multi-stabbing the black rods into Tobirama. 2) The power he used to paralyze Sasuke was used on Tobirama- altho I think unlikely without at least 1 panel in between with Tobirama "reacting" to his body being unable to move while he was mid-air. My 3rd possible explanation hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, and that's the one that takes their surroundings into play. They are on the surface of the Gedo statue correct? The black rods can come out of the statue per Madara's will right? Therefore it would be possible that while Madara was mid-air along with Tobirama that he "called out" or whatever for the black rods to come out from the statue. Or maybe the statue could "sense" it's master/controller in trouble and reacted by itself in that fashion. There are still unanswered questions and powers pertaining to that statue. I don't personally believe this theory of the others but just that it seems like something that could possibly have happened. IMO it was my first thought: The use of hyper reflexes, fueled by having rinnegan. Madara knows of Tobi's FTG technique because that's what killed his bro. Even tho it may surprise him at first, a split second is all he'd need to counter it since in his mind he was possibly expecting Tobirama to use it. Lol Yeah, yeah, now I'm trying to read Madara's mind @.@ haha

I appreciate the explanations, but most of them do not explain what happened conclusively. Again, its more a matter of how Kishi made the situation seem more suspicious that anything, but I'll try to counter a point or two.

As to Madara producing rods from his back to skewer Tobirama or the Mazou producing rods in his defense and skewering Tobirama, neither of those explanations are feasible in this situation. Tobirama is above Madara with his stomach facing the ground. If he were skewered by the statue or by rods protruding from Madara's back, the rods would be in his STOMACH not his back.

The explanation that Madara did some fancy footwork and dodged it is the best explanation in my opinion. Better than him using Deva path or Susanoo, who's activations might have taken too long to counter the attack properly. But again, its a matter of how Kishi decided to show what occurred. The fact that it is not shown means that any explanation is simply a theory and since no method of avoidance is being implied at the moment, it comes off overly suspicious.

 

[valandil988]

Lol at people trying to say I'm a butthurt fanboy. I don't care that Tobirama was defeated by Madara, I care that his defeat was left very open-ended and therefore it comes off as very suspicious to me.


I appreciate the explanations, but most of them do not explain what happened conclusively. Again, its more a matter of how Kishi made the situation seem more suspicious that anything, but I'll try to counter a point or two.

As to Madara producing rods from his back to skewer Tobirama or the Mazou producing rods in his defense and skewering Tobirama, neither of those explanations are feasible in this situation. Tobirama is above Madara with his stomach facing the ground. If he were skewered by the statue or by rods protruding from Madara's back, the rods would be in his STOMACH not his back.

The explanation that Madara did some fancy footwork and dodged it is the best explanation in my opinion. Better than him using Deva path or Susanoo, who's activations might have taken too long to counter the attack properly. But again, its a matter of how Kishi decided to show what occurred. The fact that it is not shown means that any explanation is simply a theory and since no method of avoidance is being implied at the moment, it comes off overly suspicious.

What I meant was as Tobirama was as descending Madara produced the rods at high speed which combined with Tobirama's descending speed pierced right through Tobirama and out his back.

 

[Floydical]

What I meant was as Tobirama was as descending Madara produced the rods at high speed which combined with Tobirama's descending speed pierced right through Tobirama and out his back.

Hmm I suppose that's possible but the ends that are showing are blunted. They are not sharp edges and likely did not pierce through his body. In addition, Madara is shown in a dominant position with his arm extended, implying he just thrust a black rod into Tobirama. Again, I like the idea, but I think its only logical that those rods were thrust into Tobirama's back, not through his stomach and out the other side.

 

[Touken]

I'm hoping my explanation will give some insight:

Spoiler

Tobirama was taken out the same way Sasuke was. You can see here that Madara was about to loose his footing and that his hands were occupied.

Spoiler

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Tobirama had the advantage here. But also, take note of his stance. Now, if you look at it in the middle-left panel of this page you'll see his stance is exactly the same.

Spoiler

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His left arm is close to his chest, his right hand outstretched and his left knee is exactly the same and his left foot is a little angled. Better close-up here in the bottom right-hand panel:

Spoiler

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As I said before, his hands were occupied but this Rinnegan technique requires no use of his hands as shown here:

Spoiler

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So yeah, hope I've proved my point here too; Madara took him down with a Deva Path technique, not because Tobirama's reactions are slow or whether his taijutsu is better.

Awesome chapter btw.

Add the fact Tobirama wasn't surprised by Madara completely freezing Sasuke in mid-air.

Something else too, Tobirama's bottom shielding thingy is left in mid air, further supporting my little theory.

Spoiler

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