Had BSM Naruto surpassed base Hashi?

[take it easy]

Actually, thats how Fukusaku explained it. You add natural energy to jutsu = you have stronger jutsu.

Pa only explained it in terms of the 'Individual' and his 'own' Chakra, unless he did encompass Bijuu Chakra, then I am all eyes and ears. In that regard, his explanation holds. And since when is TBB a Jutsu? The last time I checked it was a Attack Bijuu Possessed and that's it. It's mostly a 'skill' exclusive to Bijuus.

this tailed beast jutsu which naruto can use in human form.

 

[Huzaifa]

I would say bsm is stronger but hashirama is simply a perfect counter to naruto.

Thank you for understanding the actual question of the thread. I think we all know the bold.

 

[TrollingSage]

Actually, thats how Fukusaku explained it. You add natural energy to jutsu = you have stronger jutsu.

Pa only explained it in terms of the 'Individual' and his 'own' Chakra, unless he did encompass Bijuu Chakra, then I am all eyes and ears. In that regard, his explanation holds.

In BM, Naruto and Kurama's chakras are merged.

Spoiler

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Rad Kurama's explanation for BSM. He says Naruto syncs kurama's chakra with his sage chakra.

And since when is TBB a Jutsu? The last time I checked it was a Attack Bijuu Possessed and that's it. It's mostly a 'skill' exclusive to Bijuus.

Everything that uses chakra is a jutsu. TBB is a jutsu which only tailed beasts can use due to their chakra. Rasengan is the human version of tbb. Saying tbb isnt a jutsu because only tailed beasts use it is like saying susano isnt a jutsu since only Uchihas can use it.

 

[shelke]

Aside from the fact that both Jiraiya can make much bigger rasengans than they can in base.In Naruto's case, it even gave him the ability to throw his rasenshuriken. Can't say am suprised you didnt know that, afterall it has nothing to do with Sasuke.

So the Energy that is supposed to enhance and make the Base Chakra powerful enabled Naruto and Jiraiya to make better Rasangans? Shocker! But it somehow automatically translates to Bijuu Chakra as well - A chakra, that is shown to have completely different properties from the start.

Oh please. Don't make a pointless jab. I am pretty sure I am more aware of Natural Energy's workings than you. You are welcome to try me.

@NarutoxMan

I have facts and basic logic to bring me to lead me to this conclusion. When in biju mode, Naruto's chakra is merged with Kuramas. Therefore, it's not simply base chakra being enhanced.

What facts? As I said, the manga hasn't made a statement about Natural Energy enhancing Bijuu Chakra nor have I seen Naruto's TBBs become more powerful. The fact that it damaged Obito doesn't mean the TBB was enhanced, but because Natural Energy was injected in it as he's vulnerable to it. Heck, even the Toad's Senjustu attack affected him.

 

[Turson]

Pa only explained it in terms of the 'Individual' and his 'own' Chakra, unless he did encompass Bijuu Chakra, then I am all eyes and ears.

What do you mean? Are you saying that Bijuu chakra > natural energy when it comes to strenght? I have to disagree. After all, the Juubi, the most powerful being in Narutoverse was basically a mass of natural energy.

And since when is TBB a Jutsu?

Jutsu, attack, whatever. Its a mass of condensed chakra. Going by Fukusakus words, when you add natural energy to chakra you make it more powerful. I see no reason why TBB should be an excpeption.

 

[shelke]

@Trolling Sage

I am aware of ALL of these scans. No use in reminding me. Unless I have forgotten something. Anyone is welcome to correct me. Jutsu Literally translates into 'Technique', TBB is a 'Skill'. Two different things.

 

[Huzaifa]

KCM is also a chakra enhancement. The kyubi's chakra is more powerful than Naruto's base.


Yea let's not compare Sasuke's fake "SM" with the real thing.

Not really his own is pretty powerful also it was stated. He can be the jin just cause his chackra is strong or he would have succumbed to kurama a long time ago.

 

[itachi4real]

Base hashi is stronger than bsm naruto. What has naruto done that makes people think he beats base hashi? The god of shinobi is too much for bsm naruto for now. Naruto will surpass hashi but not now tho

 

[shelke]

@Turson

For the love of ... Natural energy is its Achilles heel. I didn't make this logic, the manga did. Anyhow, unless anyone of you have any defnitive proof that Bijuu chakra is enhanced as well, I will stick to my point, as Naruto's attacks don't seem any better to me.

 

[take it easy]

Anyone is welcome to correct me. Jutsu Literally translates into 'Technique', TBB is a 'Skill'. Two different things.

Jutsu (術; Literally meaning "skills/techniques")are the mystical arts a ninja will utilise in battle. To use a technique, the ninja will need to use their chakra.

so TTB is jutsu

 

[Huzaifa]

@Turson

For the love of ... Natural energy is its Achilles heel. I didn't make this logic, the manga did. Anyhow, unless anyone of you have any defnitive proof that Bijuu chakra is enhanced as well, I will stick to my point, as Naruto's attacks don't seem any better to me.

Hey I have a question for you if don't agree with the proof do you have proof it doesn't enhance biju chackra? Do you have a counter argument? All I see is you making bs statements so far about that topic.

 

[LeSauce]

Either way, even if BM cloak is enhanced by SM it isn't that much of a difference. Especially not 20 times more powerful considering Sasuke was able to fight on equal grounds.

It only seems to add a little boost (if any) and probably isn't even twice as powerful.

Of course this is all an assumption.

 

[take it easy]

Either way, even if BM cloak is enhanced by SM it isn't that much of a difference. Especially not 20 times more powerful considering Sasuke was able to fight on equal grounds.

It only seems to add a little boost (if any) and probably isn't even twice as powerful.

Of course this is all an assumption.

tired naruto with half bijuu sage mode and fresh sasuke with full power....

 

[AlphaScythian]

KCM is also a chakra enhancement. The kyubi's chakra is more powerful than Naruto's base.
Yea let's not compare Sasuke's fake "SM" with the real thing.

Well maybe he just have no enough strenght to throw FRS in his base lol.
Fake SM or not is still SM. I would love to see actual jutsu enhancement factor. Some people claim it to be 20X which i seriously doubt, the body however gets good enhancement.

 

[Turson]

@Turson

For the love of ... Natural energy is its Achilles heel. I didn't make this logic, the manga did.

What are you talking about? Please, read my post one more time.

 

[take it easy]

Well maybe he just have no enough strenght to throw FRS in his base lol.
Fake SM or not is still SM. I would love to see actual jutsu enhancement factor. Some people claim it to be 20X which i seriously doubt, the body however gets good enhancement.

ewww.... since cursed mark ( ability which give chance used senjutsu)= true sage mode?

 

[shelke]

Hey I have a question for you if don't agree with the proof do you have proof it doesn't enhance biju chackra? Do you have a counter argument? All I see is you making bs statements so far about that topic.

What proof? What counter argument? What Bs Statements?

You will have to be specific.

 

[iNotorious]

Either way, even if BM cloak is enhanced by SM it isn't that much of a difference. Especially not 20 times more powerful considering Sasuke was able to fight on equal grounds.

It only seems to add a little boost (if any) and probably isn't even twice as powerful.

Of course this is all an assumption.

Equal grounds? Naruto has barely take a break after he gained KCM. Lol

 

[Champ]

Not after we seen a mini Shinsuusenju being made without Sage mode.

 

[TrollingSage]

@Trolling Sage

I am aware of ALL of these scans. No use in reminding me. Unless I have forgotten something. Anyone is welcome to correct me. Jutsu Literally translates into 'Technique', TBB is a 'Skill'. Two different things.

Maybe. You've forgotten Naruto in BM mixes his chakra with Kurama's. And also the fact that Kurama said Naruto syncrochised his (kurama's chakra) with is nature energy. Kurama's explanation makes it clear that BSM is a result of Naruto mixing and using nature, his chakra and kurama's chakra simultaneously. All the three chakras are combined into one chakra that Naruto uses.
He's not just using sage mode and bijuu mode at the same time.

Well maybe he just have no enough strenght to throw FRS in his base lol.
Fake SM or not is still SM. I would love to see actual jutsu enhancement factor. Some people claim it to be 20X which i seriously doubt, the body however gets good enhancement.

You only have to look at the size of Jiraiya's base rasengan and compare it to the one he made against Pain. Mind you that wasn't even perfect sage mode.