Can the juubbi sized katon be used without senju dna?

[Shadow Phantasm]

I don't think having Senju DNA increases the power of a jutsu,it's overpowere but it's not that overpowered.

 

[LeSauce]

I think they do need the Senju DNA.

I mean it allowed Obito to spam kamui, strengthened edo tensei, decreased the waiting period of KA, and increased the time of Izanagi. These are all different kinds of boosts I think it would be safe to say that it could boost Katon.

In addition to that Obito has been able to make his Katon the same size (like you stated) yet he has never even been noted for his strength in chakra, while Madara had the strongest ever seen.

 

[Draphsin]

I don't think having Senju DNA increases the power of a jutsu,it's overpowere but it's not that overpowered.

Not the power, but rather the size. The fire is the same strength as his regular katon would be, the only difference is that he can produce more at once (due to having a possible increase in chakra levels).

I think they do need the Senju DNA.

I mean it allowed Obito to spam kamui, strengthened edo tensei, decreased the waiting period of KA, and increased the time of Izanagi. These are all different kinds of boosts I think it would be safe to say that it could boost Katon.

In addition to that Obito has been able to make his Katon the same size (like you stated) yet he has never even been noted for his strength in chakra, while Madara had the strongest ever seen.

All very true.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

I think they do need the Senju DNA.

I mean it allowed Obito to spam kamui, strengthened edo tensei, decreased the waiting period of KA, and increased the time of Izanagi. These are all different kinds of boosts I think it would be safe to say that it could boost Katon.

In addition to that Obito has been able to make his Katon the same size (like you stated) yet he has never even been noted for his strength in chakra, while Madara had the strongest ever seen.

Senju DNA so far has only shown to provide increased stamina and life force.The fact Obito could spam Kamui without going blind is because the Senju cells of his Zetsu half are constantly healing his eye and preventing it from going blind.

 

[Aya San]

Senju DNA so far has only shown to provide increased stamina and life force.The fact Obito could spam Kamui without going blind is because the Senju cells of his Zetsu half are constantly healing his eye and preventing it from going blind.

Meaning increase in efficiency not power

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[TheSages456]

Dont call my thread garbage because you disagree. At least have some sense when debating. I have valid points yet all you do is post a scan of perfect susanoo & bash my thread? How about leaving before you make yourself look any more like an ass?

I don't even like madara you moron...

im calling it garbage because thats exactly what it is. you cant take criticism?

you have no points.

all im seeing in your beginning post is "im assuming", "its logical to assume". your thread almost gave me a heart attack.

if the author implies nothing, assume nothing.

obitos katon has nothing to do with senju dna. it was that big since he combined it with kamui which spins the flames outward.

the moment he didnt use kamui with his katon, this was the size of his katon:

Spoiler

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obitos katon has only been large scale when he has combined it with kamui. thats it. thats a closed case.

if madaras jutsus got a power boost from senju dna, it wouldnt only be his katon, it would be all of his techs. his perfect susano obviously received no power boost:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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so it stands that nothing in his arsenal is boosted by senju dna and what you see from him is his natural power. that is how you formulate a correct argument based on facts, without assuming.

 

[End of Days]

They used hashirama's power to strengthen the control over juubi so they can probably do this too

 

[Draphsin]

Senju DNA so far has only shown to provide increased stamina and life force.The fact Obito could spam Kamui without going blind is because the Senju cells of his Zetsu half are constantly healing his eye and preventing it from going blind.

How do you know that, if that were true then obito would still feel the strain, obito has never complained about his eye &even if it is constantly healing, its not preventing damage & pain.

Meaning increase in efficiency not power

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Efficiency is what im talking about here, an increase in size isnt necessarily an increase in power. The fire is still fire, I is powerful fire, madara's juubi sized katon is simply large, not powerful.

 

[Uchiha Marshmallow]

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[LeSauce]

Senju DNA so far has only shown to provide increased stamina and life force.The fact Obito could spam Kamui without going blind is because the Senju cells of his Zetsu half are constantly healing his eye and preventing it from going blind.

I'm pretty sure strengthening Edo Tensei has nothing to do with Satmina/Life force.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

How do you know that, if that were true then obito would still feel the strain, obito has never complained about his eye &even if it is constantly healing, its not preventing damage & pain.



Efficiency is what im talking about here, an increase in size isnt necessarily an increase in power. The fire is still fire, I is powerful fire, madara's juubi sized katon is simply large, not powerful.

The fact Kakashi is strained when using Kamui could be explained because he's not a Uchiha.Obito however is the originator of the jutsu and so he would'nt feel the strain of using it like Kakashi does.

 

[Aya San]

How do you know that, if that were true then obito would still feel the strain, obito has never complained about his eye &even if it is constantly healing, its not preventing damage & pain.



Efficiency is what im talking about here, an increase in size isnt necessarily an increase in power. The fire is still fire, I is powerful fire, madara's juubi sized katon is simply large, not powerful.

Yeah I'm saying to the people who believe that it increases power

 

[Draphsin]

im calling it garbage because thats exactly what it is. you cant take criticism?

you have no points.

all im seeing in your beginning post is "im assuming", "its logical to assume". your thread almost gave me a heart attack.

There's a difference between criticism & insulting smartass.

Heart attack? Watch that cholesterol..

if the author implies nothing, assume nothing.

The author implied nothing, he showed us for ourselves.

obitos katon has nothing to do with senju dna. it was that big since he combined it with kamui which spins the flames outward.

Bullsh*t, look at the different katon/kamui sizes, the katon that obito used initially had

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, the first katon's shape was manipulated, & obito was using kamui

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with his katon.

But as you can clearly see in 2nd katon scan obito is not only showing

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being activated but you can EASILY tell that this particular katon has

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. To say that obito used kamui the same way as he did in the 2nd scan is laughable.

the moment he didnt use kamui with his katon, this was the size of his katon:

Spoiler

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I LOVE how you use the only scan where obito's katon is even smaller than

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katon, lmfao. To say that obito's katon hasnt increased in size since he was a kid is once again laughable.

The only thing that this proves is that obito was tired from battle, I know you & your ignorance blinds you from seeing it but if you believe that obito's katon hasnt increased in over a decade then you're not even worth debating.

obitos katon has only been large scale when he has combined it with kamui. thats it. thats a closed case.

Wrong. Obito's kamui does not increase the size, it changes the shape. Laughable to assusme otherwise. & kishi shpowed us obito producing the fire from his mouth. Obito used kamui after he produced the katon & it's proven from the first scan. Kamui does not increase the volume of the katon but rather changes its shape, which in turn sacrifices volume.

if madaras jutsus got a power boost from senju dna, it wouldnt only be his katon, it would be all of his techs. his perfect susano obviously received no power boost:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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When did I ever say power boost?

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Size increased, which is my point.

so it stands that nothing in his arsenal is boosted by senju dna and what you see from him is his natural power. that is how you formulate a correct argument based on facts, without assuming.

You proved nothing & you've assumed more than I have. PS has increased in size & obito's katon did as well, logically, madara's katon size increased with the addition of hashirama's dna.

 

[TheSages456]

Bullsh*t, look at the different katon/kamui sizes, the katon that obito used initially had

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, the first katon's shape was manipulated, & obito was using kamui

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with his katon.

come on now. you need to learn to not make easily refutable arguments.

But as you can clearly see in 2nd katon scan obito is not only showing

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being activated but you can EASILY tell that this particular katon has

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. To say that obito used kamui the same way as he did in the 2nd scan is laughable.

he already blew out the katon. even in that scan you posted, you can see a swirl pattern in his katon, just like when he first used it, which was with kamui. when obito used bakufuu ranbu, it was with kamui. in both instances, the swirl pattem on the flames is the same.

I LOVE how you use the only scan where obito's katon is even smaller than

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katon, lmfao. To say that obito's katon hasnt increased in size since he was a kid is once again laughable.

all im going to say is, prove it. you're assuming that it has increased.

The only thing that this proves is that obito was tired from battle, I know you & your ignorance blinds you from seeing it but if you believe that obito's katon hasnt increased in over a decade then you're not even worth debating.

you cant prove that obito was tired? do you see where assumptions get you?

Wrong. Obito's kamui does not increase the size, it changes the shape. Laughable to assusme otherwise. & kishi shpowed us obito producing the fire from his mouth. Obito used kamui after he produced the katon & it's proven from the first scan. Kamui does not increase the volume of the katon but rather changes its shape, which in turn sacrifices volume.

it makes the flames spin outward. kishi showed us obito blowing a katon midstream after kamui was utilized.
when did i say that kamui increases volume? stop putting words in my mouth.

When did I ever say power boost?

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Size increased, which is my point.

ems madara and edo madaras susano are equal in all aspects. one was used to coat the kyuubi and one stood in full form.

You proved nothing & you've assumed more than I have. PS has increased in size & obito's katon did as well, logically, madara's katon size increased with the addition of hashirama's dna.

"obito was tired", "obitos katons got stronger", "obito doesnt need kamui for bakufuu ranbu" despite the flames clearly being shown to spiral which is what happened when he first used it with kamui.

you said all of the nonsense above but you're saying that i assumed? please stop, you look ridiculous.

 

[Naruto.]

I agree with you OP. But you're forgetting Kamui. Obito has used Kamui several times to enhance his Katon! I can't find the particular manga scans! :|

 

[Draphsin]

he already blew out the katon. even in that scan you posted, you can see a swirl pattern in his katon, just like when he first used it, which was with kamui. when obito used bakufuu ranbu, it was with kamui. in both instances, the swirl pattem on the flames is the same.

Lol as I said there is volume in the 2nd katon while the other is completely hollow. Okay obito's katon had a swirl pattern, doesnt prove that he did the same thing to his first kamui. Now look who's assuming, lol. The swirl pattern is (as I said before) simply changing the shape, not increasing the size.

all im going to say is, prove it. you're assuming that it has increased.

& Now you're assuming madara's katon increased from

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, if obito's katon hasnt increased since his younger days then why should madara's? He doesnt have kamui to help him, so tell me. How did his increase?

See how foolish you look? If adult obito's katon is the same size as his childhood katon then why is madara's much larger in comparison to his childhood? No sense, lol.

you cant prove that obito was tired? do you see where assumptions get you?

Show me another ninja who's done what obito has done without getting tired. Even naruto/hashirama & madara got tired after a day of fighting. Why is obito so godly now that he has more chakra than anyone & everyone in the manga? See? another assumption on your part. Obito not being tired after all of his fighting is more logical than your assumption which is that his chakra reserves were completely fine.

it makes the flames spin outward. kishi showed us obito blowing a katon midstream after kamui was utilized.
when did i say that kamui increases volume? stop putting words in my mouth.

It changes the shape of the flames, it doesnt add more fire to the flame that's already there, & that makes absolutely no sense (unless he has fire in his dimension, waiting to be spawned in :|).

You saying that kamui made the fire larger than what it should normally be means that you believe its volume was increased. As I showed you in the OP & in my response the katon that obito used against kakashi/Gai had no middle, it was a vortex with fire around the edge & none in the center, it was hollow. The 2nd scan shows us clearly that obito's katon was not hollow, therefore its volume increased since the first bakufu ranbu.

If obito's katon got larger, then it was because the hole that was once in his first katon is now filled with fire. There is more fire (volume) than in the previous scan so saying that kamui increased the size means that you think its volume got increased in turn.

ems madara and edo madaras susano are equal in all aspects. one was used to coat the kyuubi and one stood in full form.

Another assumption, why am I not surprised.

I guess EMS sasuke's & EMS madara's Perfect susanoos are equal in all aspects? Sasuke simply used his to cover kurama but he hasnt shown us his full form... This is an assumption based on your logic. If we havent seen madara's "full form" PS then why are you assuming that its equal to edo madara's? The destructive capability? That changes nothing as the shockwave would do the same amount of damage, they arent vastly different in size but one is obviously larger.

My two scans show that one diamond is smaller than the other, if EMS madara's susanoo can grow to be as large as the one edo madara showed us then why didnt he just add more layers to kurama's coat? Create more swords? Or do something to compensate for the difference in size?

"obito was tired", "obitos katons got stronger", "obito doesnt need kamui for bakufuu ranbu" despite the flames clearly being shown to spiral which is what happened when he first used it with kamui.

1. Logical assumption, foolish to believe otherwise.

2. Never said stronger, but rather larger, if you don't believe so then why did madara's katon increase in size since his childhood?

3. Never said he didnt need it, bakufu ranbu is a specific jutsu where obito uses kamui to manipulate his katon. He has never increased the size of his katon via kamui & if he uses kamui on the katon he produces then it does nothing to increase the volume.

you said all of the nonsense above but you're saying that i assumed? please stop, you look ridiculous.

You have assumed & you're still assuming.

Btw I find it funny that the only reason why you commented in this thread is because you think this could possibly lead to edo madara being > hashirama. You're an absolute joke, if hashi was shown to tank such a large katon then I bet you wouldnt give two sh*ts about this thread. Just goes to show you how much you love that damn wood.

Who cares if this may change the gap between edo madara & ems madara? I sure as hell dont, just making an observation. & Shinsuusenju can still tank it under the right circumstances so your lord is safe, dont worry & get on with your wanking.