Can the juubbi sized katon be used without senju dna?

[Aya San]

listen, you don't know how big that fire is. I have a size comparison chart on a thread, but seriously. Obito's was so big because he whipped it up with his vortex. Madaras was enhanced by both his senju dna AND him being an edo

How does being an edo make the fire bigger? Hashi DNA is non factor

 

[KingHashirama]

In the scan where you provided , and said "rocks can't be burnt"... notice how Mokuton isn't burnt either...

 

[Aya San]

In the scan where you provided , and said "rocks can't be burnt"... notice how Mokuton isn't burnt either...

That's why Madara used katon against Hashi right? Knowing full well it wouldn't work right?

 

[GrayParadise]

Simple question to anyone who thinks any plain blooded Uchiha can do that:

How come Madara didn't use it against Hashirama?

 

[Draphsin]

GUYS! is it possible that it APPEARS so big because its from an areal view? Perhaps the fire is rising towards the "camera" and it expands as it rises

Unlikely as the entire shinobi alliance was pretty much engulfed & they did nothing about it. Even if it isnt as large is it looks the size is still significantly larger than anything we've seen thus far in terms of katon

Well ummm.... what I can say is
the effect of the slam is clearly shown that it is inclined towards shinobi alliance standing in front more than sideways.

Also, the Katon jutsu is only using the wind which is mixing into it.
Both direction of wind from shockwave as well as the Katon jutsu are independent of each other because the one pushing the Katon jutsu forward are Madara and Obito.

But it is a good strategy if I say that Madara and Obito took advantage of the wind blown from shockwave to strengthen and increase the area of their Katon Jutsus.

You can see the shockwave, it is not affecting the katon.

In the scan where you provided , and said "rocks can't be burnt"... notice how Mokuton isn't burnt either...

The wood that hashi was producing at that instant wasnt getting burned, plus mokuton absorbs chakra so unless the fire is overwhelming then it wont do much.

Simple question to anyone who thinks any plain blooded Uchiha can do that:

How come Madara didn't use it against Hashirama?

Exactly

 

[Retsu]

I agree with Madara since he seems to literally be a fusion of Hashirama and himself, however Obito I don't agree with, I think he took advantage of kamui to create his own signature fire tech, if senju dna really did enhance his chakra to such monstrous levels, he wouldn't need to use kamui to generate such huge flames. He should just use them automatically like Maddy.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Senju dna doesn't increase your chakra levels.

Hashirama cells boost immense psychical energy(Life force A.K.A. Yang)

This equates to stamina.The uses seen are displayed through obito being able to fight for days on end,not having to eat or drink,obito surviving the extraction process of the tailed beast,acting as a life support system support for old madara in conjunction with the Gedo Mazou

Remember chakra is made of the mixture of Yin & Yang.
Hashirama cells were the catalyst for a near unlimited source of psychical energy (Yang)






It was also no the works of Edo tensei


Madara was stated to be one of the most powerful shinobi of all time period before being an edo.

It was also stated that he has without a doubt the strongest and most wicked chakra ever produced by the uchiha clan.

Also a good thing to note is the edo tensei regenerates your chakra it does not give you unlimited chakra,meaning you cannot create a version of your justu that you had in life on a larger scale in edo form.

You create a justu with your chakra and the chakra used is replenished.

This still all edo users dangerous and even a certain few justu incredibly so.

I would also like to point out that the modification kabuto made never stated anything like enhancing his speed or strength OR chakra levels.

Kabuto retained the powers madara obtained throughout his entire life while bringing him back in a youthful state (Meaning he didn't suffer from the affects of being old)

Essentially bringing him back beyond his "Prime" as his prime did not feature all the abilities he has now.

Nagato while retaining his you did not come back in his "Prime" because he still suffered from the prolonged use of his legs because of his paraplegic state brought upon by Hanzo.

 

[Aya San]

Simple question to anyone who thinks any plain blooded Uchiha can do that:

How come Madara didn't use it against Hashirama?

It just wasn't shown, besides Hashi tanked TBB it wouldn't do much

 

[KingHashirama]

That's why Madara used katon against Hashi right? Knowing full well it wouldn't work right?

So what you are saying is Madara should've admit defeat? He still fought Hashirama even when he knew Hashirama was stronger.. on top of that, Katon covers a wide range.. . But in that scan, Katon didn't burn Mokuton. No point asking my questions like that.

Senju dna doesn't increase your chakra levels.

Hashirama cells boost immense psychical energy(Life force A.K.A. Yang)

This equates to stamina.The uses seen are displayed through obito being able to fight for days on end,not having to eat or drink,obito surviving the extraction process of the tailed beast,acting as a life support system support for old madara in conjunction with the Gedo Mazou

Remember chakra is made of the mixture of Yin & Yang.
Hashirama cells were the catalyst for a near unlimited source of psychical energy (Yang)






It was also no the works of Edo tensei


Madara was stated to be one of the most powerful shinobi of all time period before being an edo.

It was also stated that he has without a doubt the strongest and most wicked chakra ever produced by the uchiha clan.

Also a good thing to note is the edo tensei regenerates your chakra it does not give you unlimited chakra,meaning you cannot create a version of your justu that you had in life on a larger scale in edo form.

You create a justu with your chakra and the chakra used is replenished.

This still all edo users dangerous and even a certain few justu incredibly so.

I would also like to point out that the modification kabuto made never stated anything like enhancing his speed or strength OR chakra levels.

Kabuto retained the powers madara obtained throughout his entire life while bringing him back in a youthful state (Meaning he didn't suffer from the affects of being old)

Essentially bringing him back beyond his "Prime" as his prime did not feature all the abilities he has now.

Nagato while retaining his you did not come back in his "Prime" because he still suffered from the prolonged use of his legs because of his paraplegic state brought upon by Hanzo.

Edo tensei/Shisui's eye/Izanami.. all got powered by Hashi's dna. o-o So it is only a good assumption that their Katons were made stronger by Hashirama's dna.

 

[-ahhimane-]

You can see the shockwave, it is not affecting the katon.

I said that the Katon jutsu used the wind which came in its path. Thus, the jutsu got multiplied.
In the direction of the shockwave, The Katon jutsu is big enough compared to that of behind it. Also the direction of the katon Jutsu matters

 

[Draphsin]

I agree with Madara since he seems to literally be a fusion of Hashirama and himself, however Obito I don't agree with, I think he took advantage of kamui to create his own signature fire tech, if senju dna really did enhance his chakra to such monstrous levels, he wouldn't need to use kamui to generate such huge flames. He should just use them automatically like Maddy.

How does using kamui to change the shape of your jutsu increase its size? Obito uses kamui to change the way his katon functions, like sasuke/madara & their dragons. But his katon is still the same size as madara's kamui wouldn't change that.

Senju dna doesn't increase your chakra levels.

Hashirama cells boost immense psychical energy(Life force A.K.A. Yang)

This equates to stamina.The uses seen are displayed through obito being able to fight for days on end,not having to eat or drink,obito surviving the extraction process of the tailed beast,acting as a life support system support for old madara in conjunction with the Gedo Mazou

Remember chakra is made of the mixture of Yin & Yang.
Hashirama cells were the catalyst for a near unlimited source of psychical energy (Yang)


It was also no the works of Edo tensei


Madara was stated to be one of the most powerful shinobi of all time period before being an edo.

It was also stated that he has without a doubt the strongest and most wicked chakra ever produced by the uchiha clan.

Also a good thing to note is the edo tensei regenerates your chakra it does not give you unlimited chakra,meaning you cannot create a version of your justu that you had in life on a larger scale in edo form.

You create a justu with your chakra and the chakra used is replenished.

This still all edo users dangerous and even a certain few justu incredibly so.

I would also like to point out that the modification kabuto made never stated anything like enhancing his speed or strength OR chakra levels.

Kabuto retained the powers madara obtained throughout his entire life while bringing him back in a youthful state (Meaning he didn't suffer from the affects of being old)

Essentially bringing him back beyond his "Prime" as his prime did not feature all the abilities he has now.

Nagato while retaining his you did not come back in his "Prime" because he still suffered from the prolonged use of his legs because of his paraplegic state brought upon by Hanzo.

Who else can produce juubi sized attacks on their own? Hashirama is the only one & he needs SM in order to do so, funny thing about SM is that you need

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amounts of chakra in order to master the technique. Who is the only person we know that has a perfect SM & huge chakra levels? Hashirama.

Not only that but hashi compared his chakra levels to that of

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, to say that hashi doesnt just have an immense level of chakra is ridiculous.

So translating that to having increased time on izanagi & reduced time on KA, its safe to assume that senju dna boosts chakra levels.

I said that the Katon jutsu used the wind which came in its path. Thus, the jutsu got multiplied.
In the direction of the shockwave, The Katon jutsu is big enough compared to that of behind it. Also the direction of the katon Jutsu matters

The jutsu showed no signs of being manipulated by the wind. Assuming so is speculation.

 

[Aya San]

Edo tensei/Shisui's eye/Izanami.. all got powered by Hashi's dna. o-o So it is only a good assumption that their Katons were made stronger by Hashirama's dna.

Increased in efficiency not power

Even Oro's chakra strengthen the edo bond so that's a special case

 

[Retsu]

kamui changes the size because it creates a vortex of wind.

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obito is basically using a wind+fire combination, this to me implies he could not get his flames as large as Madara witout using kamui.

 

[KingHashirama]

Increased in efficiency not power

Even Oro's chakra strengthen the edo bond so that's a special case

Sadly no, Orochimaru's edo tensei bind with his own chakra was about to be shat on by Tobirama, until Orochimaru used Hashi's dna to strengthen the bind.. soo yea. .

 

[Aya San]

Sadly no, Orochimaru's edo tensei bind with his own chakra was about to be shat on by Tobirama, until Orochimaru used Hashi's dna to strengthen the bind.. soo yea. .

Sadly no what? Did it not get stronger with Oro's chakra? About to get shat on is a different story, doesn't mean his chakra didn't strengthen it.

My point is Edo is special, since even Oro chakra can strengthen it. Put Sasuke's chakra in it and it should do the same as well

 

[Flawž]

kamui changes the size because it creates a vortex of wind.

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obito is basically using a wind+fire combination, this to me implies he could not get his flames as large as Madara witout using kamui.

Kamui changes it shapes into spirals. Doesn't increase the size of it.

 

[KingHashirama]

Sadly no what? Did it not get stronger with Oro's chakra? About to get shat on is a different story, doesn't mean his chakra didn't strengthen it.

My point is Edo is special, since even Oro chakra can strengthen it. Put Sasuke's chakra in it and it should do the same as well

He did strengthen the bind. Meaning Oro's chakra > Kabuto's own. =]. lol Edo tensei isn't special, this concept applies to all the jutsus.

 

[TheSages456]

what is this garbage? these desperate madara fanboys keep making up limitations for ems madara and trying to buff edo madara to make it seem like there is a gap between them.

never has hashiramas cells increased the power of a persons jutsu.

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[Draphsin]

what is this garbage? these desperate madara fanboys keep making up limitations for ems madara and trying to buff edo madara to make it seem like there is a gap between them.

never has hashiramas cells increased the power of a persons jutsu.

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Spoiler

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Dont call my thread garbage because you disagree. At least have some sense when debating. I have valid points yet all you do is post a scan of perfect susanoo & bash my thread? How about leaving before you make yourself look any more like an ass?

I don't even like madara you moron...

 

[Aya San]

He did strengthen the bind. Meaning Oro's chakra > Kabuto's own. =]. lol Edo tensei isn't special, this concept applies to all the jutsus.

Does having stronger chakra makes KA, Izanagi stronger? No the stronger chakra only works with Edo

Hashi dna only increases efficiency not power