Can Kisame defeat Itachi ?

[Shadow Phantasm]

Kisame said Itachi was stronger than him so I don't think he would win if they fought.

 

[Prince Charles]

dummy,paralysis genjutsu was also what Itachi used on Orochimaru
No danzo noticed on his own fool

But the setting in which orochimaru was placed in via the background, the moon and dark red space made it obvious he was in a genjutsu...

 

[HNIC]

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It was at this point that Sharingan user Sasuke knew he was in a genjutsu. Yea, pretty much after itachi pointed it out.

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It was at this point naruto knew he was in genjutsu. Again, after itachi pointed it out kindly to him.

#Defeating more nonsense claims.


If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't speak. Only shark missles can be performed at mid. You don't even know what long range is do you? 20m isn't long range. That can quickly be shushined through. In the same respect you say kisame is itachi's partner, it's the same way itachi is his. Because you assume itachi is going to sit at mid range. FYI, itachi also possess mid range water techs. In fact, due to the sharingan, itachi can just copy all the shit kisame does and through it right back him if he wants to be a ***** about the situation. This is confirmed by kakashi using Shark missle.

you're mad and you obviously need to re-read Kisame's fights

 

[HNIC]

But the setting in which orochimaru was placed in via the background, the moon and dark red space made it obvious he was in a genjutsu...

Orochimaru didn't know until that appeared, he was in genjutsu before that. The point is, regardless of what genjutsu is used noticing the affects are the same.

the 4th Raikage being placed under paralysis genjutsu mad no difference. The 4th Raikage didnt even show any implications of having seen any out of the ordinary

 

[RikudouMadara]

Imho....he can if Itachi was completely blind and had no sharingan at all. If not Itachi wins 99/100.

 

[Draphsin]

you can believe genjutsu has no range limit all you want, that's pure speculation. The burden isn't on me, you are the one trying to argue genjutsu being long range, which is hilarious to me. You have NO proof of this happening, we have seen Itachi close the gap between his opponents to case genjutsu, yet your're sitting here stating something with NO proof.

Lol

I proved to you that genjutsu only requires eye contact. That's it, everyone reading this will see how ignorant you are for denying this rather simple fact.

Genjutsu has no range restriction unless you can prove so, the only restriction is that the user needs to make eye contact which obviously becomes harder as you move further away from someone. But nowhere is it stated that long range will render genjutsu ineffective.

Why didnt jiraiya mention that in the list of genjutsu counters? Why is a 2nd person needed if you can simply move back & use long ranged attacks? Its all proof poiting towards you being wrong. DB doesnt mention it, manga doesnt mention it. Your very flawed argument is based on no evidence while I actually have the databook to support me. Sorry friend, but you have lost this one.

 

[HNIC]

Lol

I proved to you that genjutsu only requires eye contact. That's it, everyone reading this will see how ignorant you are for denying this rather simple fact.

Genjutsu has no range restriction unless you can prove so, the only restriction is that the user needs to make eye contact which obviously becomes harder as you move further away from someone. But nowhere is it stated that long range will render genjutsu ineffective.

Why didnt jiraiya mention that in the list of genjutsu counters? Why is a 2nd person needed if you can simply move back & use long ranged attacks. Its all proof poiting towards you being wrong. DB doesnt mention it, manga doesnt mention it. You very flawed argument is based on no evidence while I actially have the databook to support me. Sorry friend, but you have lost this one.

child as I've stated in the other thread, anyone believing genjutsu is long distance isn't worth arguing with.

Jirya didn't mention pain being a counter, yet we've seen that it is. Like I've said, I have no more time for clueless fanboys.

 

[Dantee]

No bro lol

One does not need to redirect their attention but simply put someone between their line of view.

Garra has done this
Obito has done this
Sasuke has shown how this can be done
etc.

@PC nobody is hyped, when arguing a point we just go IN

What you're saying is the gist of what I'm establishing. Gaara has never done this because Sasuke used Enton not Amaterasu.

Raikage moved and Sasuke shot his Amaterasu at a soilder. Sasuke shunshined and forced Itachi to shoot his enton at trees before hitting him. Obito sensed the attack and forced Sasuke to shoot it at his black thingies. Zetsu says it here.

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The flames will converge at that spot.

Kisame is not as fast Raikage/Obito or Sasuke.


As for this Kisame breaking genjutsu argument I will add that Kishi only gave him a 2.5 in this category. I'm doubtful to Kisames ability to fare against genjutsu because of this. Just something to add on than just speculation and relying on Samehada to break him out. Samehada who also shows no special intelligence feats besides mere instinct.

 

[Draphsin]

child as I've stated in the other thread, anyone believing genjutsu is long distance isn't worth arguing with.

Jirya didn't mention pain being a counter, yet we've seen that it is. Like I've said, I have no more time for clueless fanboys.

More ignorance, & no scans? Typical. Looks like you have admitted inferiority, lmao.

Don't have time for me? Or can't counter my point? I can guarantee its the latter because you've literally done nothing but show me that you can't interpret proof properly.

 

[Disquiet]

Orochimaru didn't know until that appeared, he was in genjutsu before that. The point is, regardless of what genjutsu is used noticing the affects are the same.

the 4th Raikage being placed under paralysis genjutsu mad no difference. The 4th Raikage didnt even show any implications of having seen any out of the ordinary

No. That's where you're wrong. The affects aren't the same. Orochimaru realized it because Itachi only restricted movement. This is proved by the fact that Orochimaru proceeded to break out the genjutsu while talking to Itachi who was right in front of him. The "canceling" wasn't to dispel any visual illusion, only to regain movement.

The somatic affects are different from the visual ones.

 

[HNIC]

What you're saying is the gist of what I'm establishing. Gaara has never done this because Sasuke used Enton not Amaterasu.

Raikage moved and Sasuke shot his Amaterasu at a soilder. Sasuke shunshined and forced Itachi to shoot his enton at trees before hitting him. Obito sensed the attack and forced Sasuke to shoot it at his black thingies. Zetsu says it here.

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The flames will converge at that spot.

Kisame is not as fast Raikage/Obito or Sasuke.


As for this Kisame breaking genjutsu argument I will add that Kishi only gave him a 2.5 in this category. I'm doubtful to Kisames ability to fare against genjutsu because of this. Just something to add on than just speculation and relying on Samehada to break him out. Samehada who also shows no special intelligence feats besides mere instinct.

we're you in class? How did you have time to get all this! haha

This when I thought I was done clowning today.

Amaterasu has been deflected, by the three i have listed. Enton not being Amaterasu is irrelevant, as the steps in which it is performed are the same. We've also seen Obito deflect this himself, all this proving that as long as a jutsu is placed in front of oneself, amaterasu isnt connecting with them

As you claim to be an Itachi fanboy, you should know that amaterasu requires prep, especially when having a specific target (requiring more concentration)

Amaterasu can't burn through water, let alone chakra enhanced water.

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Here Kisame performs a jutsu arguably faster than the initial amaterasu, considering its prep. This also alone Kisame to to perform jutsu protected from amaterasu

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Now, consider the prep for amaterasu and look how fast Kisame performed this. Get it? Got it? Good! lol I've entertained fools saying genjutsu is long distance, to others saying Kisame has little to no long range offenses. I've had enough Itachi fanboy rants, now I see why ya'll are considered that worse here.

 

[HNIC]

No. That's where you're wrong. The affects aren't the same. Orochimaru realized it because Itachi only restricted movement. This is proved by the fact that Orochimaru proceeded to break out the genjutsu while talking to Itachi who was right in front of him. The "canceling" wasn't to dispel any visual illusion, only to regain movement.

The somatic affects are different from the visual ones.

My last here, this is really sad.

All illusions prevent movement, Deidara wasn't moving himself

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Do you think he was moving? He was wrapped up! Kabuto is the same, he isnt moving the illusion gives the perception that movement is occurring. Orochimaru didn't just suddenly noticed this the moment he couldn't move, he was never MOVING.

Repelling the illusion IS regaining movement. Also, we see Kisame explaining the steps of genjutsu, yet people argue him falling into it senselessly lol JOKES.

 

[Dantee]

we're you in class? How did you have time to get all this! haha

This when I thought I was done clowning today.

Amaterasu has been deflected, by the three i have listed. Enton not being Amaterasu is irrelevant, as the steps in which it is performed are the same. We've also seen Obito deflect this himself, all this proving that as long as a jutsu is placed in front of oneself, amaterasu isnt connecting with them

As you claim to be an Itachi fanboy, you should know that amaterasu requires prep, especially when having a specific target (requiring more concentration)

Amaterasu can't burn through water, let alone chakra enhanced water.

Spoiler

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Here Kisame performs a jutsu arguably faster than the initial amaterasu, considering its prep. This also alone Kisame to to perform jutsu protected from amaterasu

Spoiler

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Now, consider the prep for amaterasu and look how fast Kisame performed this. Get it? Got it? Good! lol I've entertained fools saying genjutsu is long distance, to others saying Kisame has little to no long range offenses. I've had enough Itachi fanboy rants, now I see why ya'll are considered that worse here.

Enton is irrelevant because the speed at which both techniques can be used are different. The only prep it takes is the gathering of chakra. Kisame won't have time to react once it's fired is what I'm getting at. If Kisame suspects Itachi will use Amaterasu and puts up a defense, Itachi can also withhold Amaterasu like here. Use it when the time is right.

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I'm not an Itachi fanboy lols. Pretty obvious who my fav character is. As for this genjutsu not being long range That's pretty false. AO made note Itachi can cast genjutsu bypassing a sensors range. I also don't see a reason why it can't be used at any range especially one that requires eye contact. Sasuke casted one when Diedara was in the air.

I don't see this fight getting past genjutsu all the odds are against Kisame. His 2.5 in genjutsu. Is samehada really a reliable counter? He's not like a bijuu who shares a mind with you. That scan where you showed Kisame "explaining" genjutsu...well he's not really explaining it.

 

[Disquiet]

My last here, this is really sad.

All illusions prevent movement, Deidara wasn't moving himself

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Do you think he was moving? He was wrapped up! Kabuto is the same, he isnt moving the illusion gives the perception that movement is occurring. Orochimaru didn't just suddenly noticed this the moment he couldn't move, he was never MOVING.

Repelling the illusion IS regaining movement. Also, we see Kisame explaining the steps of genjutsu, yet people argue him falling into it senselessly lol JOKES.

My points continue to elude you. Obviously, simply restricting one's movement is completely different from stopping their movement while also making them think they're actually still moving. I'd be able to notice instantly something was up if I suddenly couldn't move, but not so if I believe I'm still moving. Oh yes, Kabuto, another person who wouldn't have realized it if it weren't for recurring events.

Also, wasn't moving? All we see is his leg on the upper step and his bent posture.

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And again, it's not a genjutsu that controls visual perception.

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He noticed it through restricted movement. Again, noticing simulated reality genjutsu is unprecedented, at least without a sharingan or trained eye. <------That should tell you something.


Yeah that statement is not evidence he wouldn't get caught. Shee, Ay, and Danzo all got caught in one despite knowing how it works.

And yes, the affects of a paralysis genjutsu are clearly different from the affects of a visual genjutsu. In the case of Demonic Illusion: Shackle Stakes, the victim feels physical pain while not being able to move freely. In Itachi's reality simulation genjutsu, any events occurring are all within the mind; making the person believe they're still moving.

 

[xxSAGExx]

a taijutsu user guy can beat kisame.....guy sensei......i doubt anyone here thinks guy can beat itachi....itachi takes kisame med diff

Kisame didn't have samehada with him and lost due to lack of information on Guy's jutsu, not due to Guy being stronger.

Not only has Kisame admitted inferiority to Itachi, there's nothing allowing him to get past his Genjutsu, let alone Tsukiyomi

He said he couldn't beat Jiraiya and even said compared to him and Itachi that they pale in comparison to Jiraiya. All genjutsus can be avoided with hidden mist jutsus and water clones.

No he didn't you're implying he did based on something that was known plot jutsu to prevent 12yr old Naruto from being captured.(you honestly believe Itachi+Kisame+backup < Jiraiya? -_-

exactly feats speak for themself, but some people just ignore it.

Actually yes to the Jiraiya part, have you forgot the fact that Jiraiya fought and killed 4 of Pains in total and all of Pain's bodies are kage level. Nagato even said Jiraiya might have won if he had more Intel, this supports what Itachi said.

Kisame already admitted Itachi was superior. He even followed his orders because he knew Itachi was not someone to fuk with. If Itachi was weaker Kisame would have killed him already like he did his other partners.

He admitted he Jiraiya was, follow Itachi's orders? They both follow Nagato's orders who follows Tobi's. Kisame does what is helpful to Akatsuki and that's all. Kisame killed his comrades because that was the mission, not because they were weaker. Also it doesn't matter who's stronger, they're both on the same level and either one can win depending on battle field, how the fight starts and such.

Susanoo apparently has a filtration system lol

Didn't filter Mei's boiling mist on Sasuke haha

Kisame admitted inferiority when he spoke of the nine tails and Jiraya. He said he knew couldn't face them, but Itachi probably could.

Thats right I was.

Nope, that can also mean Itachi havng the sharingan can aid him in reading moves which is something Kisame can't do also there are bad match ups as well that you have to take in consideration.

Jman is a different opponent. Jman can own certain characterd better than Itachi, same for Itachi

Match ups determibe the victor

Exactly

thats not the same thing, kisame lost to guy because he thought the move guy was using was a jutsu but it was taijutsu which was Daytime Tiger and Kisame used Super Shark Bomb which absorbs any ninjutsu thus overpowering it but since guy used a taijutsu that didnt work...guy won in that scenario he isnt more powerful than kisame

Agreed

Kisame has his chances.

However, this Samehade interrupting genjutsu argument.

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^That's Jiraiya explaining to Naruto how to cancel genjutsu. There's no proof a much lesser intelligent being even knows what to do in such a situation. Even people with brains had to have the methods taught to them at one point.

There are ways to avoid genjutsu as well. Kisame has Hidden mist and water clones for this.

Under what grounds? Kisame can't even avoid Amaterasu and Kisame has no counter for genjutsu. Honestly people either want Kisame to win because he has Water dome and can asorb chakra but lels that's not enough for someone like Itachi. Itachi is not just deadly but very skilled and has a much keener eye in battle.

Kisame wouldn't have said that if Itachi wasn't stronger. Not to mention Kisame knows nothing about Jirayas arsenal.

Really? Hidden mist and water clones is all Kisame needs to avoid Amaterasu or genjutsu since it's chakra made and messes up the vision of chakra seers. Rather Itachi is stronger than Kisame or not doesn't mean he can't beat Itachi also Kisame could have meant since Itachi had the Sharingan that he could do better due to the reading move and jutsu ability.

he himself said no. Tsukuyomi rapes his ass. Totsuka rapes his ass. Samehade didn't want to absorb a shitty fireball, it sure as hell isn't touching Amaterasu which will rape his ass. Susano'o crush rapes his ass. Enton magatamas rape his ass.

What's that? I just listed his entire MS arsenal? That's because he has plenty ways to rape ass.

Hidden mist and water clones prevent Amaterasu or genjutsus working on Kisame or being hit by totsuka, he even shown that he can attack from underground. Also Kisame fuse with Samehada and use water dome which makes Itachi and Susanoo slower and makes Kisame faster. Kisame only needs to slightly touch Itachi to absorb all of his chakra (he absorb a lot from Bee in Version 2 so that's more than Itachi even have.

Kisame has no counter to:

*Totska Blade
*Susanoo
*Tsukiyomi
*Regular Genjutsu
*Yata Mirror
*Itachis Sheer speed
*Amaturasu

Really, Kisame looses almost negative difficulty if itachi goes at him with killing intent. He has no counter to tsukiyomi, a gnjutsu that takes place instantly. No one will even be able to react an help him break free. Manga fact: If you aren't uchiha, you cant break tsukiyomi.

Itachi has like 4 techniques to one shot kisame.

Hidden mist and water clones counters most to all of those and Great shark missile absorbs Amaterasu and Susanoo and gets stronger as it absorbs chakra. That's not manga fact, Jinchuuriki's weren't introduced yet and part 2 info > part 1 so Jins can break out. Itachi even said all jutsus have a weakness in part 2 while inpart one he said no one can break out so Itachi supports this.

You're under the impression Kisame carries around stolen chakra. That is highly false. The reason Samehada follows him is to feed off Kisames chakra. You can't disrupt your own chakra with your own chakra.

Actually you can, one of the ways is to take your chakra to 0 then disrupt the chakra with a greater chakra flow and Samehada would be disrupting Itachi's chakra not Kisames. if he can break out that way is unknown but Kisame seem knowledgeable about genjutsus since his partner is Itachi and genjutsu are taught about in academies.

Well apparently it does, now what about amaterasu

Except when you learn to read he wasn't talking about Jiraya when he said that. Kisame knows what Itachi is capable of. He has seen Itachi fight and not only acts but his words imply Itachi is stronger than him. You don't even need to be a fan to see who is stronger by the manga.

Kisame can avoid genjutsus and Amatersau with hidden mist and water clones, he even shown to attack from underground. Also juts because someone is stronger doesn't meant they can't lose. We seen Naruto, Sasuke, Shikamaru all beat people stronger than them so 2 ninjas on the same level fighting wouldn't be because 1 is stronger but who has the best strategy, battle field advantage, ect..

I have yet to see anything that stops Tsukiyomi or Susano'o, or Amaterasu once it ignites on Kisame or Samehada

Hidden mist and water clones stops those and fusing with Samehada absorbs chakra by touch and Amaterasu has been shown to burn slow as seen with trees and A's arm. Kisame can regenerate using the chakra he absorb so even if he's hit, he can heal from it while absorbing it and he even said the stronger his opponent the stronger he becomes

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And on top of that, even the bijuu didn't instantly respond.

Wrong, you're using real world time and Bee broke out in seconds, a Bijuu is connected to their Jinchuuriki's mind so even in Tsukuyomi they would be there to break them out, Time moves differently when a Jin visits the Bijuu, we see Bee have full convos with the 8 while in battle, same for Naruto and Kurama. The bijuu's are in the Jin while it's everyone but the victim that are not in Tsukuyomi time.

How can Kisame counter Amaterasu ? With Samehada ?

Hidden mist and water clone, Itachi use it and hits the clone cause the mist weakens his sharingan. The mist is chakra base so it clouds his vision. Also fuse with Samehada and Kisame can absorb the Amaterasu and heal himself with it's own chakra

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Yes kisame has his chances to win but i can see Itachi having the slight edge.

The fight would be much closer than people think, Kisame's ability to absorb anything made of chakra is very bad for someone who had very little chakra to waste in the first place.

They forgot that Kisame can regenerate with Samehada's help so when they fuse he can just absorb Amaterasu is hit as well and heal himself. Amaterasu burned trees and A's arm slowly while Kisame absorbed high chakra amounts from Bee so he can just absorb it all in 1 go since Amaterasu doesn't have more chakra than Version 2

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It really isnt as seeing kisame would first have to realize he is in a genjutsu and like other have said we don't know the process that samehada would take to break kisame out of it, it took both lady chiyo and sakura to break naruto out of itachi's genjutsu, samehada will surely need more time since it is alone, and thats if it is even capable of doing so and if kisame can realize his in a genjutsu.

Hidden mist and water clones prevent genjutsus.

Unbiased? Amaterasu > Kisame EOD

How so? Kisame can Regenerate

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and fuse with Samehada can absorb chakra with the slightest touch so Kisame absorbs Amaterasu and heals himself. He absorbed a ton of chakra from version 2 Bee in 1 go fused and samehada unfused absorbed up to 3 tails which are all greater than Amaterasu's chakra amount. Plus hidden mist and water clones can avoid being hit.

It takes time for even Bijuu to notice its host is in trouble, let alone a separate sentient weapon. Neither one would break out of Genjutsu instantly, especially on the level of Tsukiyomi.

Wrong, took mere seconds and the same would happen with Tsukuyomi since the Bijuus are in the Jins so they're in the Tsukuyomi's time as well. Itachi even said all jutsus have weaknesses.

Amaterasu doesn't make travel so he will be hit. Samehada doesn't like fire and has shown to disobey it's user. The possibilities of it wanting to asorb Amaterasu is slim to none. Not to mention once Kisame is hit and inactive. Itachi effortlessly kicks Samehada to a bush somewhere and lets Kisame burn.

And Kisame fused to Samehada prevent him kicking samehada away and absorbs any chakra base attack. Kisame can regenerate from wounds

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and absorb Version 2 chakra amounts so Amaterasu is going to be tanked.

But he wasnt hit with tsukuyomi...if he was hit with tsukuyomi bee would be done....now its just like u said samehada is a living creature soooo tell me how does he absorb ama when its not chakra??

No, the 8 tails would break him out. The 8 tails and Bee minds and chakra are connected so they both would be in the same time effect that Tsukuyomi's creates. And use Ama is chakra, it's a ninjutsu and all ninjutsus are chakra. Sealing jutsus are ninjutsus and Minato's chakra is in the mark which further proves my point. If ama wasn't chakra then Itachi couldn't use it with MS, he would have to use an outside source like Sasuke using Lightning to make Karin which is not chakra.

Lets discuss

Amaterasu

There might be a possibility that Amaterasu can be fed on by Kisame's sword, I'm not sure, but probably not. If itachi aims his Amaterasu on Kisame's body other than his sword, then Kisame has lost.

Round one: Itachi > Kisame

Tsukyomi/Genjutsu

Kisame doesn't excel at taijutsu like gai does, therefore it'll be unlikely for him to fight itachi by judging his movement based on itachi's body positioning and trajectory. In fact, if he even looks at Itachi's finger, he'll be in a Genjutsu. However Kisame's sword could probably bring him back from the genjutsu, not tsukuyomi. Therefore if kisame is looking at itachi chin below, he wont be able to tell if he's using amaterasu or anything like that.

Round 2: Itachi > Kisame.

Susano + Yata Mirror + Totsuka Blade

Kisame hasn't got anything in his arsenal capable of going through a susano ribcage, never mind Yata mirror. Totsuka blade is an overkill.

Round 3: Itachi > Kisame

I don't know why this has become a heated discussion, but based on feats and hype, Itachi godstomps Kisame, thus why Kisame has been seen as itachi's partner, not the other way around.​

Wrong, Hidden mist and water clones is how he avoid Amaterasu and genjutsu. His Water shark missile absorbs Amaterasu and Susanoo and only gets stronger. Kisame can heal from wounds with Samehada

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so fuse with Samehada and he can absorb Amaterasu if hit and use it's chakra to heal himself.

[video=youtube;7GuOLqb_UqM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GuOLqb_UqM[/video]

Peep the end. Itachi didn't even have to look at him directly and he could have scored the kill.

What are you talking about? Kisame won against 3 tomoes Itachi and Itachi was going to start using MS but Kisame reminded himthat he's about to fight Sasuke so shouldn't go all out. Kisame wasn't at full power either, he wasn't fused with Samehada so both were just sparring.

All you said was Samehada absorbs Amaterasu (assuming it even can, and what happens if it hits Kisame directly?)

Samehada breaks him out of Tsukiyomi (again, assuming it can, it wouldn't be able to break out fast enough before he's struck down either mentally or physically)

And there's still nothing in Kisame's arsenal that stops Susano'o, let alone Susano'o with Totsuka & Yata.

Almost is your problem. If it takes longer than a second to break Kisame out of Tsukiyomi, then its over.

Amaterasu burn slow as we seen with trees, A's arm and the samurai's armors. Kisame can regenerate from wounds with Samehada

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So he can fuse with Samehada and absorb Amaterasu in 1 go and heal any wounds (He absorbed high amount of chakra from Bee in 1 go so he can do it no prob). As for any genjutsus, hidden mist and water clones would help him avoid them. Itachi can't be waste full of chakra which Kisame absorbs so water dome and absorb all chakra plus he's faster in water than Itachi.

I already addressed that Samehada can be seperated with a mere kick. You contradicted your in your 1st two posts. You say he doesn't disobey Kisame and then disobeys him in the scan you posted. I don't feel like going into the debate whether Amaterasu travels or not. I'm heading to class now but we all know Kisame doesn't have the means to react to Amaterasu.

Kisame can fuse with Samehada so no separating and I already ddescribed how he can absorb Amaterasu in other posts ^^

I'm honestly trying my best to not state "Totsuka Blitz GG"

hidden mist weakens Itachi's sight, Water dome slows Susanoo's and Itachi's movements while increases Kisame's. Kisame absorbs Amaterasu even if it hits him as I described before and Itachi drowns GG Kisame generates from wounds and fused with Samehada absorbs thru touch so water clones speed blitzing around Itachi and GG

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[Disquiet]

There are ways to avoid genjutsu as well. Kisame has Hidden mist and water clones for this.



Wrong, you're using real world time and Bee broke out in seconds, a Bijuu is connected to their Jinchuuriki's mind so even in Tsukuyomi they would be there to break them out, Time moves differently when a Jin visits the Bijuu, we see Bee have full convos with the 8 while in battle, same for Naruto and Kurama. The bijuu's are in the Jin while it's everyone but the victim that are not in Tsukuyomi time.

Reread both my posts.

1)

Kisame has his chances.

However, this Samehade interrupting genjutsu argument.

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^That's Jiraiya explaining to Naruto how to cancel genjutsu. There's no proof a much lesser intelligent being even knows what to do in such a situation. Even people with brains had to have the methods taught to them at one point.

2)

And on top of that, even the bijuu didn't instantly respond.

Seconds =/= instantly. I said even the bijuu didn't instantly free him, then you went and said I was wrong by stating it took seconds. That was my point.

Also, I never understood that it "took place in their mind" argument. If I read the page of a book only in my head vs out loud, the seconds wouldn't be as far off as say, I actually had to THINK about what I had to say first. In the latter scenario, the person hearing the words would have no idea how long it took me to come up with it in my head (assuming there's a delay in constructing the actual sentence, and then pondering a bit on if I should say it). However, if I'm reading words off a book, it's nearly instantaneous. Bee and the 8 tails conversing while in battle doesn't prove that it's happening much faster between them. Conversing with another person in my head (in this case a Bijuu) is even slower than reading words off a book (which there is not much delay in time between the thought and surrounding events), I'd have to wait for the person to finish his words, then think of mine. As much as I read on this assumption, it all seems baseless.

Tsukuyomi would already be over. Anyways, no need to turn this into a tsukuyomi vs perfect jinchuuriki argument.

 

[RikudouMadara]

@Sage Itachi won the fight, it was all merely an illusion. That's why Itachi ended up on the opposite side of Kisame in the end. Kisame even admits he was nervous.....also that isn't part of the original story is it?

 

[blazekev90]

Sage dont waste your time, this boys are so caught up in Kismae realizing he'll be in genjutsu, they dont notice how ridiculous they sound.

Let them stay in their fairytale world.

 

[xxSAGExx]

@Sage Itachi won the fight, it was all merely an illusion. That's why Itachi ended up on the opposite side of Kisame in the end. Kisame even admits he was nervous.....also that isn't part of the original story is it?

Yes, they fought in the genjutsu because Itachi was going to fight Sasuke so wasn't going to tire himself out physically hence the genjutsu fight. He didn't say he nervous only said look at you go, I haven't sweated this much in a while. All that shows was Itachi put up a good fight and that is part of the story, it took place before Itachi fought Sasuke.

Reread both my posts.

1)

2)

Seconds =/= instantly. I said even the bijuu didn't instantly free him, then you went and said I was wrong by stating it took seconds. That was my point.

Also, I never understood that it "took place in their mind" argument. If I read the page of a book only in my head vs out loud, the seconds wouldn't be as far off as say, I actually had to THINK about what I had to say first. In the latter scenario, the person hearing the words would have no idea how long it took me to come up with it in my head (assuming there's a delay in constructing the actual sentence, and then pondering a bit on if I should say it). However, if I'm reading words off a book, it's nearly instantaneous. Bee and the 8 tails conversing while in battle doesn't prove that it's happening much faster between them. Conversing with another person in my head (in this case a Bijuu) is even slower than reading words off a book (which there is not much delay in time between the thought and surrounding events), I'd have to wait for the person to finish his words, then think of mine. As much as I read on this assumption, it all seems baseless.

Tsukuyomi would already be over. Anyways, no need to turn this into a tsukuyomi vs perfect jinchuuriki argument.

How did Naruto go from pulling the Chakra rods out of the Bijuus here

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into talking to all Jins and Bijuus for a good amount of time and Obito do nothing about Naruto pulling the chakra rods? Time is different for Jins and Bijuus and are connected so even in Tsukuyomi they would still react in enough time where Itachi wouldn't do enough damage. The Bijuus can pull their Jin to where they are while in a fight and that Jin not getting killed while they talk means in their mind it's faster than out

Bijuu broke the genjutsu in secunds in real time, would be faster in the Jin's mind. We see Bee sitting on the 8 tails all the time and Naruto right by Kurama. Kisame knows Itachi's fighting style so would know how to prevent from getting under a genjutsu an use hidden mist and his water clones to further aid him. Both are on the same level and can beat each other.

 

[xxSAGExx]

Sage dont waste your time, this boys are so caught up in Kismae realizing he'll be in genjutsu, they dont notice how ridiculous they sound.

Let them stay in their fairytale world.

True, They don't understand that both can beat ach other and Itachi doesn't win all of the time. Genjutsus have been shown to be avoidable by Kakashi who used hidden mist and a clone in the anime and in the manga he only useda clone to attack from below which is something Kisame did to Guy's team.