These are two different types of damage. Tsunade herself stated that she couldn't regenerate the type of damage the Rasenshuriken leaves. Yet you could say that every time Tsunade gets a serious wound, her cells are destroyed or the cell channels severed. Creation Rebirth and Byakugo actually produce new cells. Yet Tsunade says she can't heal this type of damage.
8 triagrms 64 palms is a very fast technique; it was able to succee on the likes of Lee, he learned the opening of 4 gates to avoid hits to be "untouchable". Someone needs to be highly fast to avoid all hits.
These are two different types of damage. Tsunade herself stated that she couldn't regenerate the type of damage the Rasenshuriken leaves. Yet you could say that every time Tsunade gets a serious wound, her cells are destroyed or the cell channels severed. Creation Rebirth and Byakugo actually produce new cells. Yet Tsunade says she can't heal this type of damage.
Actually, the gentle fist method harms internal organs which is what makes it deadly as opposed to the style being deadly because it blocks the flow of chakra. And Gai says that no matter how much one works out they cannot toughen up their internal organs. Now you've argued that because Hiashi attacks Tsunade's chakra network Tsunade therefore has no way to heal which in fact incorrect. So long as Tsunade has a Katsuyu mini on her she at all times can heal without needing to make seals as Katsuyu can heal so long as the Byakugou seal is intact.
Note that Tsunade is making no handseals yet the Gokage are recovering
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Which brings me to my next point it is well established that a portion of healing is refilling one's chakra.
Naruto's clone says he's out of chakra then asks Tsunade to heal him
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[/IMG]
And Naruto has shown that chakra running through a closed point will open it back up.
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Additionally, if Tsunade gains the ability to mold chakra at all or it's not completely neutralized I see no reason her seal will not restore her chakra network in the same fashion chakra from Naruto's seal reopened his seal.
Mkayyy...
Here is another explaination for gentle fist:
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^^That explaination and Hinata not being able to use gentle fist attacks no more suggests that gentle fist blocks chakra points and stops the overall flow. Gentle fist works when someone extracts chakra from their fingers and pinpoints the tenketsu and stops the flow. This takes someone's usage of chakra, the only way Naruto was able to open was he had Kurama, another entitiy inside him. It can't be compared to a seal.
And i am mentioning this case before Byakugo gets activated. Tsunade only activated it against someone pracitcally a God; what suggests she is using the jutsu right of the bat?
And Katsuyu had been seen as healing while delivering Tsunade's or Sakura's chakra or healing prowess. I don't know if she can accomplish such by her own, even if she does Hiashi can see the flowing chakra between Tsunade and slug and flick it away with an airpalm.
That would be the exact function Byakugou does... allowing Tsunade to operate/practice medicine on herself that was kind of a really bad analogy.
What i meant was when someone's healing ability is taken away, he/she can't perform the surgery and was also referring to Hinata's case mostly.
This would be incorrect as well. Both are capable of mid ranged attacks.
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And based on the way Hashirama spoke Tsunade would be capable of long range attacks too.
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( If we compare the size of the juubi fodder with Sakura's punch to the Juubi Fodder from Tobirama's Kibafuda we'd see just how grand of a scale Sakura's punch is actually on.
I was referring to their overall orientation as fighters, but i can talk about long range abilities.
First off, the distance is about 10 meters, so getting close for Hiashi would not be difficult.
Second, Tsunade's long range attacks have never been used against an opponent, she always goes for direct hits.
Did she do that against Madara? Against Kabuto, she only kicked the ground for a case of intimidation other than that the fight was hand to hand. And Hiashi would not fell into the trick Naruto did. He is far more experienced, faster and
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.
However, you do make some assumptions here. Namely that attacks that he couldn't dodge he didn't simply use rotation for. You're also forgetting that Gai never let Lee take his weights off except for serious situations. But that's beside the point, you're underestimating Tsunade's speed severely. You're somehow in the absence of feats assuming that Hiashi is faster than Tsunade. But regardless, let's say that he is. Furthermore, Tsunade has far more experience in battle than Lee, can use different fighting styles than Lee so they aren't even comparable, and reads an opponents fighting style. So this comparison doesn't work.
Well guess what; weighted Lee is faster than Tsunade. If it can be proven othervies i am willing to see it.
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; which suggests his speed of moving arms was high.
And i have already stated it would be assumed that Hiashi is capable of what Neji can since he had been his superior.
Tsunade have always shown a linear fighting style, don't what these "different ones" are.
Also Hiashi has much more experienced than Lee and Neji if we are going to bring that into game as well.
To sum it up, credits to Bogard:
Tsunade is a linear type of fighter when Hiashi's style is more raffinated. He is not only landing punches randomly, but pin-pointing chakra networks. One touch with his gentle fist style and Tsunade is done for. Her Byakuyou won't even activate itself. Also, Tsunade's punch is nothing compared to Juubi's powerful tail which was able to destroy blow away thousand fodders, destroy SM Naruto's resilient clone, push a TBB with a finger, yet Hiashi
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his attack in one move and even pushed it back with
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. This attack attacks internal organs as well as being a powerful long range attacks(domain where Tsunade lacks in her fighting style)
Aren't you a charming one who bothers to mock someone in your post. A true sign of intelligence and superiority. So there are a few points you missed in your patronizing counter argument.
Chill out my thread is not too rafinated with a nicely done lay-out.
It is not hard to handle with a joke-ish statement, i have never patronized or claimed superiority.
Striking the ground doesn't only serve the purpose of killing. It also creates rubble and unsettling footing, which would one make it harder for Hiashi to approach Tsunade, make it harder for him to move on the battle field, make it harder for him to avoid attacks, and make it harder for him to string together successive attacks.
So Hiashi can't even avoid or react to such force, or accomplish to get close to Tsunade?
It did not prevented Kabuto much to do so. And the diatance is 10 meters.
Further, as Neji proved there is definitely a limit to how much force Rotation can handle.
It was against an unexpected attack by an opponent who got unexpectedly faster; and the rotation was not even full.
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; and as i said Neji's rotation against Naruto's clash was not complete.
Assuming the blade on Gamabunta's Tanto is made of steel, and the butt of the Tanto is made of wood and steel is heavier than wood and the Tanto is nearly the same length as Gamabunta, and Tsunade jumped that high in the air and maneuvered the sword with natural strength (no CES)
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then conceivably she should be able to produce nearly enough power to swat away juubi hand, considering it's made of wood. Accounting for how much heavier steel is and the boost of CES this seems within the realm of reason. Yet it took two rotations to swat away said hand so a reasonable possibility still exists that she'd overpower Rotation.
1st: That sword was something that is not applying force, it is physically stable and is not doing anything against Tsunade. Lifting it up can't be compared to Jubi's hand which is larger than it and applying its own force.
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To take a different approach let's say that he does try to tank the punch to the ground in the way you suggest he does. one of two things are going to happen when the Earth moves up. Either he'll dig a whole with Rotation and won't go air born and be in that hole when the earth has resettled leaving him in a position where all of Tsunade's attacks are capable of being aimed at the hole he's trapped in. (For instance Katsuyu could clog up the hole whilst using her acid so that the floor of the hole has acid and the there's no way out of the top essentially dooming him, or she could just spit acid into the hole that essentially acid is being rained down atop him and which he could temporarily avoid damage with rotation but as soon as he stops spinning the acid will take out his feet, or Tsunade could throw poisonous smoke bombs in said hole and Hiashi'd be trapped [as Tsunade was the person who taught Sakura to make poison bombs they are a tool in her arsenal
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) or Hiashi really is launched in the air by the land mass and because Rotation pushes against the ground, which is what causes the indentation, he will be in the air unable to avoid attacks. Additionally, rotation would only last for so long as he'd have no surface to keep his momentum up, and even if he did, he'd run out of air. Thus, he'd be a sitting duck in the air who wouldn't be able to avoid a strike from Tsunade, short of air palming. But then he'd be susceptible to Katsuyu's acid as well.
Rotation does not dig a hole to the ground, he deflects the damage.
The scenario had been created here is almost funny. He can focus chakra on his foot and jumpaway from the damaged area, if he ever finds himself in a crater.
If he ever finds himself in the air; he can still counter attack or perform airpalms. In this manga, people are have shown to jump tremendous hights and landing perfectly or
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.
Also Kisame distributed the whole battlezone by creating a massive shockwave by water; yet
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, heck Lee
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.
And lastly you've failed to cover some Katsuyu points at well which somehow fails to surprise me.
As i said; this is not a throughout establishment thread. i just showed why i think Hiashi has this match and has good counters.
This is what i have stated at the end of OP:
I might most likely not have covered all points but what do you think on overall matchup?
What happens when Katsuyu divides herself surrounds him and fires continual acid.
And by that I mean several slugs fire one after each other creating a continual rain of acid.
What happens when Tsunade does not even summon the slug, she did not do that against Madara? Anyway i will go this scenario.
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And Hiashi can not rotate indefinitely, as he'd run out of chakra and he'd run out of air before that. So he'd be screwed. While he could clear up to three sides at once (left air palm, right air palm, and behind full body blow [though we don't know how taxing this is on his chakra reserves, nor do we know if he has the chakra control to accomplish such a task])he can't clear all four sides and then he'd still be screwed so long as all the minis are not in range of his rotation.
Rotation is a 360 degrees of defense; against Juubi; Neji can fend off very well but he have chooses to protect others, so in terms of self defense, it is enough for a single human.
He would use rotation/airpalms just to keep the slugs away; it is not like they are abnormally fast to reach him right away.
Also credits to Strict; Hiashi has enough endurance to contedn with continous attacks:
Secondly, you neglected to take into account that Katsuyu can liquefy herself. Meaning that she can surround him as a liquid and absorb his feet, which would create a problem similar to the problem Neji faced with Kidomaru's webs.
He can use fullbody blow to deflect surrounding liquids. After that; an airpalm aimed to the ground would keep him away from the liquified slug.
And perhaps he'll be able to save himself, but this would just continue to happen so long as Tsunade stands on blobsuyu. Thus stopping multihit combos and limited the abilities of Hiashi severely. And to the same strain Tsunade could then send deadly chakra through Katsuyu to kill Hiashi.
If Tsunade is able send deadly chakra through Katsuyu, Hiashi can very well use this strategy against her.
Now; we all know that byakugan has insight ability and
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.
And
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Hiashi can send his own chakra with
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[
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] method through the slug and distribute the flow; since it is stated that Tsunade sends her chakra via slug.
Damn that was long.
I think you are fixating too much of scenarios here, the distance is a mere 10 meters and i can fend off much more, my thread was overall ability vs ability and how would it go.
In this scenarios, Katsuyu divides, surrounds, Tsunade keeps punches but Hiashi miraclously does nothing until these happen...Anyway i think we will be in the end agree to disagree.
Well, they are both restricted to Taijutsu. Only that Tsunade has a summon that won't necessarily help her. Acid is countered as well with rotation. I don't think Katsuyu will spamm her acid, especially if she sees that it is useless. Hiashi hasmore endurance than war arc Neji, being able to dodge Obito's Sashiki no Jutsu spamm [
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][
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] without a fail. If Hiashi can outlast such an attack, he obviously outlasts what Tsunade can do offensively.
Yeah, but question is, for how long would he be able to pull it off. I dare to say that he would exhaust himself way faster than that giant blob. She can be summoned for quite some time, we could in the recent chapters that when Aoda and Gamakichi already dissappeared Sakura was still able to use Katsuyu.
Byakugo shouldn't be able to reactivate the blocked Chakra points, merely heal the internal damage which was left to her organs (what is also debatable, because if most of her Chakra points are blocked, she can't control her Chakra - thus, she isn't able to use Ninjutsu (also Medical Ninjutsu) anymore. Tenten states, that Kaiten knocks away the victims Chakra [
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] and Chakra is the source of Jutsu.
Neji says, as the victims 64 Chakra points are blocked, he isn't able to use Chakra temporary [
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]. No use of Chakra, no use of Jutsu, no Byakugo, so no healing.
No it is not; it is a part of Tsunade's chakra unlike Kyuubi; which is another entity.
Not to mention it is needed to be activated to be useful; Tsunade might not even be able to activate it since her chakra points are blocked and it can's be accomplished without chakra; and
^^That explaination and Hinata not being able to use gentle fist attacks no more suggests that gentle fist blocks chakra points and stops the overall flow. Gentle fist works when someone extracts chakra from their fingers and pinpoints the tenketsu and stops the flow.
Yeah, but question is, for how long would he be able to pull it off. I dare to say that he would exhaust himself way faster than that giant blob. She can be summoned for quite some time, we could in the recent chapters that when Aoda and Gamakichi already dissappeared Sakura was still able to use Katsuyu.
I didn't see Katsuyu at the battlefield after Gamakichi disappeared. If it's so, bother to show me the scan?
People rely too much on Katsuyu. Katsuyu is almost more important for most of Tsunade's battles than she herself. Why didn't Tsunade use Katsuyu against Madara? Because summonings are used rarely against an opponent who uses no summon.. such huge summons would just disturb the battle. Why people always think that Tsunade will summon Katsuyu for her spamming her acid?
Lee needed to open atleast gates to avoiding 8 triagrams 64 palms strike, in base form he is faster than Tsunade (both by feats and DB) yet he got defeated by Neji by getting touched everytime while not landing a decent strike on Neji.
And i have stated every feat of Neji goes to Hiashi, also i have only used 13 year old Neji's feats who is much inferior to Hiashi.
If kabuto (who openly admited not being strong at taijutsu)can find openings to cut tsunades bicep and abdomen muscles by tapping her with his hands, I think Hiashi a taijutsu specialist and a master of the leafs strongest taijutsu style can find openings to do the same or block chakra points in her body
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According to her battle with kabuto back in part one, Tsunade is far from unbeatable in close combat.
OT: Had this discussion countless times, the Tsunade supporters will keep saying the same thing "He said, she said" & "Katsuya".. That's why I simply stopped Participating in these type of threads as often as i did in the past First showing the entire site How powerful the hyugas really are.
