Hyuuga Hiashi vs Senju Tsunade

[paratise]

-This matchup would be made with the assumption of Hiashi can accomplish any technique Neji did; which is hardly an assumption since the former had always canonically been latter's superior-
Location: Gokage vs Madara
Distance: 10 meters
Intel: Manga intel
Intent: To kill or incapacitate

------
This my point of view on the matter, a little long and grammar might be sucky but i won’t be playing with thesaurus like some kiddos.

As it had been stated;

You must be registered for see links

, and it is said that no matter how durable someone is; he/she is meant to effected by attacks. And these

You must be registered for see links

; meaning if someone gets full strike of 8 triagrams 64 palms he/she is meant to lose her/his chakra based techniques while getting injured.

^This shortly explains what gentle fist does. In summary; when Hiashi strikes Tsunade he would damage her chakra coil system; thus take the chances of her usage of chakra and negates possibilites of healing techniques.

Now; there is this: Hinata get healed by other no-name medical ninja after her fight with Neji; so Tsunade/Byakugo would suffice as well since they are on higher levels. But medical ninja only have healed injuries, there is nothing suggests they fixated chakra coil system right there and there. Also Tsunade being able to heal herself while her own sources got blocked is far-fetched. A surgeon can operate an open heart surgery on another human, but he/she can not accomplish such on him/herself.

*Taijutsu*

Both are close range fighters, so they would attempt direct hits on each other to harm.
However; the one who has the superior combat and striking speed is meant to have the edge.

This is where Lee's and Neji's situation comes to play, as i stated in the beginning i will take anything Neji have done as can be done by Hiashi.

During their sparrings; Neji have never taken a direct hit from Lee. If he would, he would not belittle Lee that much, since Lee's hits ar strong themselves and can cause serious harm to someone with normal physiology.
This is a glimpse of what Lee is capable of with sole strength: [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

]
^What i meant is; Neji's speed was able to contend with Lee's; thus result in the outcome that he never took an accurate hit from Lee.

Now, what does this give us?
A fighter like Lee, who relies on striking speed have never laid an actual hit on Neji, a much more inferior Hyuuga to Hiashi. Tsunade's both combat and movement speed is below Lee's levels, if he never landed an actual strike Tsunade is less than likely to do so.
Not to mention Neji was able to

You must be registered for see links

which is an ability allows Hiashi's chances of dodging attacks.

*Punch to ground hurr*

Rotaition comes to play here, though Tsuande most likely would not go for such against a cqc expert at this range.

You must be registered for see links

. It would protect Hiashi the effects of attack, and

You must be registered for see links

. Even Juubi's hand got backed away by 2 rotations.

*Wanksuyu*

If she ever gets summoned, she does not required to get killed, Tsunade is. The only problem would be get her out of way, which can be accomplished.

First off; it is a slug that can be divided into pieces. It might not be effected by physical attacks; but this attirubute makes Hiashi's job easier.
How?
Lets look how

You must be registered for see links

. Hiashi can use this tech if a mini-Katsuyu attached herself. Also

You must be registered for see links

, so it can be used if Tsunade hides in slug.
If slug does not divide herself;

You must be registered for see links

; that juubi hand was about at the size of a bijuu, it is enough to contend with the slug.

--------

I might most likely not have covered all points but what do you think on overall matchup?

 

[Penguin]

Katsuya solos.

Herp derp.

 

[paratise]

Katsuya solos.

Herp derp.

Thanks for the miraculously great contributation right after i posted.
Seriously some Will just say slug solos.

 

[Bogard]

Caterpillar were you reading in my mind or what? I just wanted to post the exact same thread :|

 

[paratise]

Caterpillar were you reading in my mind or what? I just wanted to post the exact same thread :|

Well does it seem valid?
My lay-out is poopy though lel. I hope you did not spend much time beforehand.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Senju > Fodder Hyuuga. Manga fact.

 

[paratise]

Senju > Fodder Hyuuga. Manga fact.

Never had been stated that a Senju is always obligated to defeat Hyuuga at any and all conditions so that's not a manga fact.

İf you don't have a valid counter just say so or state "i disagree". I won't expect a decent counter from you anyway, but there is No need for stating irrevelant BS.

 

[Penguin]

Thanks for the miraculously great contributation right after i posted.
Seriously some Will just say slug solos.

I know. Some believe that Katsuya solos Minato. :leaf:

I think the Hyuuga wins high - extreme diff.

 

[paratise]

I know. Some believe that Katsuya solos Minato. :leaf:

I think the Hyuuga wins high - extreme diff.

I don't think it would be that high of difficulty; but in the end Hiashi would win and that's what matters.

 

[Bogard]

Tsunade is a linear type of fighter when Hiashi's style is more raffinated. He is not only landing punches randomly, but pin-pointing chakra networks. One touch with his gentle fist style and Tsunade is done for. Her Byakuyou won't even activate itself. Also, Tsunade's punch is nothing compared to Juubi's powerful tail which was able to destroy blow away thousand fodders, destroy SM Naruto's resilient clone, push a TBB with a finger, yet Hiashi

You must be registered for see links

his attack in one move and even pushed it back with

You must be registered for see links

. This attack attacks internal organs as well as being a powerful long range attacks(domain where Tsunade lacks in her fighting style)

 

[paratise]

Tsunade is a linear type of fighter when Hiashi's style is more raffinated. He is not only landing punches randomly, but pin-pointing chakra networks. One touch with his gentle fist style and Tsunade is done for. Her Byakuyou won't even activate itself. Also, Tsunade's punch is nothing compared to Juubi's powerful tail which was able to destroy blow away thousand fodders, destroy SM Naruto's resilient clone, push a TBB with a finger, yet Hiashi

You must be registered for see links

his attack in one move and even pushed it back with

You must be registered for see links

. This attack attacks internal organs as well as being a powerful long range attacks(domain where Tsunade lacks in her fighting style)

Thanks bb that's what i am thinking.
İn fact, i think Neji takes her on too wo slug; it is just that Hiashi's attacks are large enough to fend off with a summoning.

 

[ShaneEyyy]

Senju > Fodder Hyuuga. Manga fact.

What kind of argument is this? Gtfoh

OP: I agree with you. Good arguments. The people who say Tsunade wins I bet can't even supply a legit counter

 

[KingHashirama]

Jiraiya already stated Tsunade is the best hand to hand combatant... that includes all the Hyuuga/Sarutobis/ Uchiha....

Tsunade wins.. She can easily dodge them blows.. And as for Rotation.. she doesn't have to get caught in to.. throwing a tree and blitzing right when the rotation ends ..

She is superior.. but the fight depends on Scenarios (just like any other fight).

 

[Europa]

What if Tsunade punches the ground?

 

[paratise]

What kind of argument is this? Gtfoh

OP: I agree with you. Good arguments. The people who say Tsunade wins I bet can't even supply a legit counter

Thanks ^_^
And yeah, No legit counters yet.

What if Tsunade punches the ground?

Did you read the OP?

 

[KingHashirama]

Thanks ^_^
And yeah, No legit counters yet.

Just because you fail to see the counters does not mean there aren't any legit counters.

On top of that you are expecting counters for something that the Manga already answered when Tsunade was introduced.. This is just as pathetic as the claim of Neji beating Tsunade.

PS: Tsunade's 1 finger does damage = to Hiashi's hand.

 

[Icelerate]

I was going to counter this thread but on second thought, I agree that Hiashi wins high difficulty.

 

[Europa]

Did you read the OP?

No I did not. Is that a problem?

 

[Tazzilla88]

-This matchup would be made with the assumption of Hiashi can accomplish any technique Neji did; which is hardly an assumption since the former had always canonically been latter's superior-
Location: Gokage vs Madara
Distance: 10 meters
Intel: Manga intel
Intent: To kill or incapacitate

------
This my point of view on the matter, a little long and grammar might be sucky but i won’t be playing with thesaurus like some kiddos.

As it had been stated;

You must be registered for see links

, and it is said that no matter how durable someone is; he/she is meant to effected by attacks. And these

You must be registered for see links

; meaning if someone gets full strike of 8 triagrams 64 palms he/she is meant to lose her/his chakra based techniques while getting injured.

^This shortly explains what gentle fist does. In summary; when Hiashi strikes Tsunade he would damage her chakra coil system; thus take the chances of her usage of chakra and negates possibilites of healing techniques.

Now; there is this: Hinata get healed by other no-name medical ninja after her fight with Neji; so Tsunade/Byakugo would suffice as well since they are on higher levels. But medical ninja only have healed injuries, there is nothing suggests they fixated chakra coil system right there and there.

Actually, the gentle fist method harms internal organs which is what makes it deadly as opposed to the style being deadly because it blocks the flow of chakra. And Gai says that no matter how much one works out they cannot toughen up their internal organs. Now you've argued that because Hiashi attacks Tsunade's chakra network Tsunade therefore has no way to heal which in fact incorrect. So long as Tsunade has a Katsuyu mini on her she at all times can heal without needing to make seals as Katsuyu can heal so long as the Byakugou seal is intact.

Spoiler

Note that Tsunade is making no handseals yet the Gokage are recovering

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Which brings me to my next point it is well established that a portion of healing is refilling one's chakra.

Spoiler

Naruto's clone says he's out of chakra then asks Tsunade to heal him

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

[/IMG]

And Naruto has shown that chakra running through a closed point will open it back up.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Additionally, if Tsunade gains the ability to mold chakra at all or it's not completely neutralized I see no reason her seal will not restore her chakra network in the same fashion chakra from Naruto's seal reopened his seal.

Also Tsunade being able to heal herself while her own sources got blocked is far-fetched. A surgeon can operate an open heart surgery on another human, but he/she can not accomplish such on him/herself.

That would be the exact function Byakugou does... allowing Tsunade to operate/practice medicine on herself that was kind of a really bad analogy.

*Taijutsu*

Both are close range fighters, so they would attempt direct hits on each other to harm.
However; the one who has the superior combat and striking speed is meant to have the edge.

This would be incorrect as well. Both are capable of mid ranged attacks.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And based on the way Hashirama spoke Tsunade would be capable of long range attacks too.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

( If we compare the size of the juubi fodder with Sakura's punch to the Juubi Fodder from Tobirama's Kibafuda we'd see just how grand of a scale Sakura's punch is actually on.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Thus, my

You must be registered for see links

seem correct-ish.

This is where Lee's and Neji's situation comes to play, as i stated in the beginning i will take anything Neji have done as can be done by Hiashi.

During their sparrings; Neji have never taken a direct hit from Lee. If he would, he would not belittle Lee that much, since Lee's hits ar strong themselves and can cause serious harm to someone with normal physiology.
This is a glimpse of what Lee is capable of with sole strength: [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

]
^What i meant is; Neji's speed was able to contend with Lee's; thus result in the outcome that he never took an accurate hit from Lee.

Now, what does this give us?
A fighter like Lee, who relies on striking speed have never laid an actual hit on Neji, a much more inferior Hyuuga to Hiashi. Tsunade's both combat and movement speed is below Lee's levels, if he never landed an actual strike Tsunade is less than likely to do so.
Not to mention Neji was able to

You must be registered for see links

which is an ability allows Hiashi's chances of dodging attacks.

However, you do make some assumptions here. Namely that attacks that he couldn't dodge he didn't simply use rotation for. You're also forgetting that Gai never let Lee take his weights off except for serious situations. But that's beside the point, you're underestimating Tsunade's speed severely. You're somehow in the absence of feats assuming that Hiashi is faster than Tsunade. But regardless, let's say that he is. Furthermore, Tsunade has far more experience in battle than Lee, can use different fighting styles than Lee so they aren't even comparable, and reads an opponents fighting style. So this comparison doesn't work.

*Punch to ground hurr*

Rotaition comes to play here, though Tsuande most likely would not go for such against a cqc expert at this range.

You must be registered for see links

. It would protect Hiashi the effects of attack, and

You must be registered for see links

. Even Juubi's hand got backed away by 2 rotations.

Aren't you a charming one who bothers to mock someone in your post. A true sign of intelligence and superiority. So there are a few points you missed in your patronizing counter argument. Striking the ground doesn't only serve the purpose of killing. It also creates rubble and unsettling footing, which would one make it harder for Hiashi to approach Tsunade, make it harder for him to move on the battle field, make it harder for him to avoid attacks, and make it harder for him to string together successive attacks.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Further, as Neji proved there is definitely a limit to how much force Rotation can handle.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Assuming the blade on Gamabunta's Tanto is made of steel, and the butt of the Tanto is made of wood and steel is heavier than wood and the Tanto is nearly the same length as Gamabunta, and Tsunade jumped that high in the air and maneuvered the sword with natural strength (no CES)

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

then conceivably she should be able to produce nearly enough power to swat away juubi hand, considering it's made of wood. Accounting for how much heavier steel is and the boost of CES this seems within the realm of reason. Yet it took two rotations to swat away said hand so a reasonable possibility still exists that she'd overpower Rotation.
To take a different approach let's say that he does try to tank the punch to the ground in the way you suggest he does. one of two things are going to happen when the Earth moves up. Either he'll dig a whole with Rotation and won't go air born and be in that hole when the earth has resettled leaving him in a position where all of Tsunade's attacks are capable of being aimed at the hole he's trapped in. (For instance Katsuyu could clog up the hole whilst using her acid so that the floor of the hole has acid and the there's no way out of the top essentially dooming him, or she could just spit acid into the hole that essentially acid is being rained down atop him and which he could temporarily avoid damage with rotation but as soon as he stops spinning the acid will take out his feet, or Tsunade could throw poisonous smoke bombs in said hole and Hiashi'd be trapped [as Tsunade was the person who taught Sakura to make poison bombs they are a tool in her arsenal

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

) or Hiashi really is launched in the air by the land mass and because Rotation pushes against the ground, which is what causes the indentation, he will be in the air unable to avoid attacks. Additionally, rotation would only last for so long as he'd have no surface to keep his momentum up, and even if he did, he'd run out of air. Thus, he'd be a sitting duck in the air who wouldn't be able to avoid a strike from Tsunade, short of air palming. But then he'd be susceptible to Katsuyu's acid as well.

*Wanksuyu*

If she ever gets summoned, she does not required to get killed, Tsunade is. The only problem would be get her out of way, which can be accomplished.

First off; it is a slug that can be divided into pieces. It might not be effected by physical attacks; but this attirubute makes Hiashi's job easier.
How?
Lets look how

You must be registered for see links

. Hiashi can use this tech if a mini-Katsuyu attached herself. Also

You must be registered for see links

, so it can be used if Tsunade hides in slug.
If slug does not divide herself;

You must be registered for see links

; that juubi hand was about at the size of a bijuu, it is enough to contend with the slug.

--------

I might most likely not have covered all points but what do you think on overall matchup?

And lastly you've failed to cover some Katsuyu points at well which somehow fails to surprise me. What happens when Katsuyu divides herself surrounds him and fires continual acid. And by that I mean several slugs fire one after each other creating a continual rain of acid. And Hiashi can not rotate indefinitely, as he'd run out of chakra and he'd run out of air before that. So he'd be screwed. While he could clear up to three sides at once (left air palm, right air palm, and behind full body blow [though we don't know how taxing this is on his chakra reserves, nor do we know if he has the chakra control to accomplish such a task]) he can't clear all four sides and then he'd still be screwed so long as all the minis are not in range of his rotation.
Secondly, you neglected to take into account that Katsuyu can liquefy herself. Meaning that she can surround him as a liquid and absorb his feet, which would create a problem similar to the problem Neji faced with Kidomaru's webs. And perhaps he'll be able to save himself, but this would just continue to happen so long as Tsunade stands on blobsuyu. Thus stopping multihit combos and limited the abilities of Hiashi severely. And to the same strain Tsunade could then send deadly chakra through Katsuyu to kill Hiashi.

 

[Shura]

Hiashi wins. If he feels like 1shotting Tsunade then all he has to do is ask Sasori to do it for him.