Denying a Prime Hiruzens stength

[Vegeto30294]

What do you know about a prime Hiruzen Sarutobi or his Jutsu? Keep in mind Hiruzen already beat two hokage's at age 70 who even though where not at full chackra where facing a near 70 year old hokage who the anbu mentioned could not make clones because of his current chakara and still managed to beat them even when the first hokage used his Forrest jutsu.

What do you know about Prime Hiruzen Sarutobi or his Jutsu? Just like there's a possibility of some underrating him, theres a possibility that you are overrating him and it being hyperbole.

For all we know he has his own Kekkai Genkai that nullifies all others.

The only way to correctly judge his powers in his "prime" is to see what he can do. Happened to Kabuto, Tobirama, and many others, and just like the others, he will get his respect when he shows he deserves it.

 

[Sageof7Path]

What do you know about Prime Hiruzen Sarutobi or his Jutsu? Just like there's a possibility of some underrating him, theres a possibility that you are overrating him and it being hyperbole.

For all we know he has his own Kekkai Genkai that nullifies all others.

The only way to correctly judge his powers in his "prime" is to see what he can do. Happened to Kabuto, Tobirama, and many others, and just like the others, he will get his respect when he shows he deserves it.

I'm just going by a non prime Hiruzen sarutobi shutting down two edo hokage's while barely using his jutsu. That's the only indication yet their is no indication that Hashirama or Tobirama in their prime could victoriously solo the 3rd hokage.

 

[Joshutsu]

Prime Hiruzen surly is the most powerful. It's funny people deny that a prime hiruzen was the strongest of the hokage's but the playing field was pretty much in the favor of the two reanimated kages. It was said that the two reanimated kage's where not at full chakara well... What about hiruzen at his age? He probably wasn't at top form either. Also people try to say that he wouldn't have caught the two kage's in the reaper death jutsu if they where at full power... Well Hiruzen sarutobi said himself when he was fighting Hashirama that he was just as strong and as fast as ever. Hiruzen would know this because he trained under and fought along side him and Tobirama. Stating that although they were not perfected zombies they where at top condition as far as speed and stamina. It's also said by many Hashirama tobirama madara fan boys that the hokage's barely used any jutsu while fighting sarutobi... Well neither did Hurizen. It was stated that he could barely make clones because of his age and chakara. So how do you know Hiruzen didn't have better Jutsu 20 years ago. Keep in mind 20 years ago he would have been 50.... Come to think of it the first hokage used a hidden jutsu deep forrest.... One of the jutsu's that gave Madara and the 9 tailed fox trouble but Hiruzen still beat it. It's also said that the power of hashirama is myth like... If that is so than he should have been able to beat an aged Hiruzen with only half of his strength.

We can deny prime hiruzen untilo he exists. He doesn't exist because we never seen him fight in combat. We've only heard stories and thus he can't be shown any respect for it because its all assumptions when it comes to the ghost and vs threads.

 

[Sageof7Path]

We can deny prime hiruzen untilo he exists. He doesn't exist because we never seen him fight in combat. We've only heard stories and thus he can't be shown any respect for it because its all assumptions when it comes to the ghost and vs threads.

If you've never seen him then you can't deny him you can only make bias speculations as to why you think two guys he's already beaten are stronger than him.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

His age doesn't prevent him from using jutsu unless it was draining enough to be impractical at his old age when he had low reserves. However, now that he's an edo, stamina isn't a problem. Yet, we're not seeing any new, significant jutsus coming from him. So the jutsu we're seeing are the same we've seen in Hiruzen's prime.

Unless his frail old body with low reserves prevented him from using modes that enhanced him in his prime like Sage Mode and 8 gates, this is the full extent of his abilities. If he had Sage Mode, he'd still be weaker than Hashirama since Hashirama has it as well along with OP wood jutsu. I'm not quite convinced that 8 gates makes someone stronger than Hashirama since it took Hidora to take out Madara's complete susanoo.

Either way, Hiruzen being the strongest hokage was retconned. Especially after this scan.

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[Sageof7Path]

His age doesn't prevent him from using jutsu unless it was draining enough to be impractical at his old age when he had low reserves. However, now that he's an edo, stamina isn't a problem. Yet, we're not seeing any new, significant jutsus coming from him. So the jutsu we're seeing are the same we've seen in Hiruzen's prime.

Unless his frail old body with low reserves prevented him from using modes that enhanced him in his prime like Sage Mode and 8 gates, this is the full extent of his abilities. If he had Sage Mode, he'd still be weaker than Hashirama since Hashirama has it as well along with OP wood jutsu. I'm not quite convinced that 8 gates makes someone stronger than Hashirama since it took Hidora to take out Madara's complete susanoo.

Either way, Hiruzen being the strongest hokage was retconned. Especially after this scan.

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I've said this before. He has the same amount of chackra as in his current state. Edo Tensei doesn't give you the ability to use big attacks like the nine tails gives Naruto. It regenerates the amount of chakara he already has. So you think now that he's in Edo form he has the amount of chakara as a tailed beast? If that was the case what reason would there be for Minato still having half of the 9 tails? So no his chackara still isn't up to par with where it once was it will just come back quickly once he uses it but their is a limit. If chackara in these edo clones is so huge why wasn't the second hokage able to make more than 1 clone? He said it himself it's the best he could do. The Anbu clarified that his chackra was low because of his age that's why he couldn't use jutsus and still can't use jutsu considering edo tensei does not increase chackara.

 

[Sageof7Path]

His age doesn't prevent him from using jutsu unless it was draining enough to be impractical at his old age when he had low reserves. However, now that he's an edo, stamina isn't a problem. Yet, we're not seeing any new, significant jutsus coming from him. So the jutsu we're seeing are the same we've seen in Hiruzen's prime.

Unless his frail old body with low reserves prevented him from using modes that enhanced him in his prime like Sage Mode and 8 gates, this is the full extent of his abilities. If he had Sage Mode, he'd still be weaker than Hashirama since Hashirama has it as well along with OP wood jutsu. I'm not quite convinced that 8 gates makes someone stronger than Hashirama since it took Hidora to take out Madara's complete susanoo.

Either way, Hiruzen being the strongest hokage was retconned. Especially after this scan.

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I've said this before. He has the same amount of chackra as in his current state. Edo Tensei doesn't give you the ability to use big attacks like the nine tails gives Naruto. It regenerates the amount of chakara he already has. So you think now that he's in Edo form he has the amount of chakara as a tailed beast? If that was the case what reason would there be for Minato still having half of the 9 tails? So no his chackara still isn't up to par with where it once was it will just come back quickly once he uses it but their is a limit. If chackara in these edo clones is so huge why wasn't the second hokage able to make more than 1 clone? He said it himself it's the best he could do.

 

[Xāvî1]

Prime Hiruzen surly is the most powerful. It's funny people deny that a prime hiruzen was the strongest of the hokage's but the playing field was pretty much in the favor of the two reanimated kages. It was said that the two reanimated kage's where not at full chakara well... What about hiruzen at his age? He probably wasn't at top form either. Also people try to say that he wouldn't have caught the two kage's in the reaper death jutsu if they where at full power... Well Hiruzen sarutobi said himself when he was fighting Hashirama that he was just as strong and as fast as ever. Hiruzen would know this because he trained under and fought along side him and Tobirama. Stating that although they were not perfected zombies they where at top condition as far as speed and stamina. It's also said by many Hashirama tobirama madara fan boys that the hokage's barely used any jutsu while fighting sarutobi... Well neither did Hurizen. It was stated that he could barely make clones because of his age and chakara. So how do you know Hiruzen didn't have better Jutsu 20 years ago. Keep in mind 20 years ago he would have been 50.... Come to think of it the first hokage used a hidden jutsu deep forrest.... One of the jutsu's that gave Madara and the 9 tailed fox trouble but Hiruzen still beat it. It's also said that the power of hashirama is myth like... If that is so than he should have been able to beat an aged Hiruzen with only half of his strength.

Whats the point

 

[Sageof7Path]

I posted this because it's worth talking about.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

I've said this before. He has the same amount of chackra as in his current state. Edo Tensei doesn't give you the ability to use big attacks like the nine tails gives Naruto. It regenerates the amount of chakara he already has. So you think now that he's in Edo form he has the amount of chakara as a tailed beast? If that was the case what reason would there be for Minato still having half of the 9 tails? So no his chackara still isn't up to par with where it once was it will just come back quickly once he uses it but their is a limit. If chackara in these edo clones is so huge why wasn't the second hokage able to make more than 1 clone? He said it himself it's the best he could do.

I know this. However, Itachi used amaterasu twice, tsukyomi, and final susanoo for a minute or 2 and then switched to complete susanoo. All of those techniques are the most draining in the series. Yet, a person with low stamina stats can use them several times. Itachi's stamina stats-2.5

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Hiruzen's 3.0(same as Kakashi's).

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Hiruzen most certainly has enough chakra in his body to perform powerful jutsu, it just was impractical since he'd be using up all his strength. Now that he's an edo, it regenerates, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Sageof7Path]

I know this. However, Itachi used amaterasu twice, tsukyomi, and final susanoo for a minute or 2 and then switched to complete susanoo. All of those techniques are the most draining in the series. Yet, a person with low stamina stats can use them several times. Itachi's stamina stats-2.5

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Hiruzen's 3.0(same as Kakashi's).

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Hiruzen most certainly has enough chakra in his body to perform powerful jutsu, it just was impractical since he'd be using up all his strength. Now that he's an edo, it regenerates, so it doesn't matter.

Well being that he can only use a limited amount of chackara at one time he is limited to the kind of jutsu that his old edo tensei body can manage. You can't really say he could have used any jutsu from his prime because you don't know how powerful he was in his prime or how much chackara he actually had at the time. The only reason I say he had low chackara was because the ambu confirmed it; however, I can tell you that a prime Hiruzen was not an older Hiruzen. Orochimaru even confirmed the deference in strength when insulting Hiruzen and in hiruzen's flashback of where he could have killed orochimaru with out breaking a sweat. Hiruzen was in his late 50's at that time. Still at an age where one is not considered in their prime. That right there says that Hiruzen had a large range of Jutsu and abilities that he couldn't use during his battle with his two opponents.

 

[General Lex]

We can deny prime hiruzen untilo he exists. He doesn't exist because we never seen him fight in combat. We've only heard stories and thus he can't be shown any respect for it because its all assumptions when it comes to the ghost and vs threads.

The moment Kishi revealed that there was a prime Hiruzen is the moment prime Hiruzen came into existence. The only thing we can say is that the prime Hiruzen was stronger than the one we saw in part 1. This should be considered a fact as it was never stated otherwise.

 

[startup97]

Prime Hiruzen solos all!

 

[Joshutsu]

The moment Kishi revealed that there was a prime Hiruzen is the moment prime Hiruzen came into existence. The only thing we can say is that the prime Hiruzen was stronger than the one we saw in part 1. This should be considered a fact as it was never stated otherwise.

That's all well and good but we don't know how much stronger he was we know NOTHING therefore its useless to hold prime hiruzen in any regard whatsoever. Please enlighten me on what you know about him besides his name and his 'title' that got stripped by him by a true god of shinobi/

 

[Cloudis1]

oh so it's one of those..

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[General Lex]

That's all well and good but we don't know how much stronger he was we know NOTHING therefore its useless to hold prime hiruzen in any regard whatsoever. Please enlighten me on what you know about him besides his name and his 'title' that got stripped by him by a true god of shinobi/

Simply that he was stronger when he was younger. Which was stated multiple times by multiple people. That's all I'm saying. Now to scale that you have to think about the characters that the Hiruzen can beat based on what you know. The problem is there is only anecdotal evidence to what he can do since he was only shown in one fight. But then again his fight was with Orochimaru who in the first part was modeled to be the strongest ninja introduced. Truth be told there isn't enough evidence to say how powerful he actually can be other than that it was stated he used to be better.

 

[Strawberry]

prime hiruzen can solo jubi

 

[Sageof7Path]

oh so it's one of those..

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I'm not trolling it's just people like you who refuse to even acknowledge the thought of a prime Hiruzen.

 

[startup97]

prime hiruzen can solo jubi

Hiruzen solos all!

 

[LegendaryAce]

No feats besides defeating both 1st and 2nd hokage at his age.

You know what your problem is ? you're so hung up on the hiruzen vs oro fight that you're ignoring the facts
1. Just as hiruzen wasnt at his "prime" at 69 the edo's oro summoned were lesser than what they are now and for your information they aren't as strong as they should be still.
2. The only reason they were caught is because OROCHIMARU chose to sacrifice them to find out what the jutsu hiruzen was using could do,while being laid back doing nothing and not to forget that hiruzen was hit by B.O.D meaning he was limited to what he could do,had he been attacked from a long range he would have been killed easily.
3. Orochimaru had full control of their moves and they couldnt think for themselves
4. Hashirama right now is like the 3rd strongest
5. Hiruzen prob wont be able to beat minato prime or not

some are just me saying but these are facts if hiruzen gets more feats to prove that he was strong then ye ill acknowledge it then but at the moment he has nothing on hashi,tobirama,minato