In pursuit of a DREAMWORLD

kunde

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I understand this is a part of Obito's plan. .but what about MADARA?? . .this leads me to one more interesting question . .m not saying ur theory is invalid m just curious to know what if obito hadn't come across madara . .ur theory is mainly based on the other world existing without the knowledge of shinobi's . .that is KAMUI i believe. .so my question is what would hav happened if obito wasn't there in the scenario @ all. .what madara would hav done??. .how did he plan to cast eternal genjutsu without using KAMUI? hey no offence bro m just curious about it. .
 

uchihamad

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Obito wouldn't be able to play the controller of the dream world.Since he too effected by the illusion.People will be put in illusion they will be in their own dream world.It dosen't effect others dream world.
 
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I understand this is a part of Obito's plan. .but what about MADARA?? . .this leads me to one more interesting question . .m not saying ur theory is invalid m just curious to know what if obito hadn't come across madara . .ur theory is mainly based on the other world existing without the knowledge of shinobi's . .that is KAMUI i believe. .so my question is what would hav happened if obito wasn't there in the scenario @ all. .what madara would hav done??. .how did he plan to cast eternal genjutsu without using KAMUI? hey no offence bro m just curious about it. .

I think that's why he was curious about Obito's eye. And another thing bro, it's true that Obito's eyes are rare but he may not be the only Kamui user. Remember how Kakashi said that there was no one who could cancel Kamui. The very existence of the name 'Kamui' suggests that there were previous yielders. This is what I believe or maybe it's only me. I believe that the SO6P or the Juubi is behind this technique.
 

kunde

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I think that's why he was curious about Obito's eye. And another thing bro, it's true that Obito's eyes are rare but he may not be the only Kamui user. Remember how Kakashi said that there was no one who could cancel Kamui. The very existence of the name 'Kamui' suggests that there were previous yielders. This is what I believe or maybe it's only me. I believe that the SO6P or the Juubi is behind this technique.

To some extent i believe juubi has that particular ability not SO6P. .maybe madara knew that juubi has Kamui type ability since it's the creation of everything . .the fundamental chakra concept started from juubi. .and it's eye almost looks like a combination of rinnegan +sharingan
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and i assume juubi has access to all the types of jutsu's that exists . .maybe thats y madara wanted to revive juubi and it makes sense y madara didn't let obito go away but rather manipulated him . .maybe he found that obito's sharingan are KAMUI based eyes . .
 
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To some extent i believe juubi has that particular ability not SO6P. .maybe madara knew that juubi has Kamui type ability since it's the creation of everything . .the fundamental chakra concept started from juubi. .and it's eye almost looks like a combination of rinnegan +sharingan
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and i assume juubi has access to all the types of jutsu's that exists . .maybe thats y madara wanted to revive juubi and it makes sense y madara didn't let obito go away but rather manipulated him . .maybe he found that obito's sharingan are KAMUI based eyes . .

It's my belief too.
 

Tachondar

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To be precise,an individual DREAM WORLD for every individual on this earth.

I never looked at it that way, but you're right, that's possibly also the only right way to look at it 0_o
Wel, If I think about it, even if Obito will cast this, they'll still figure out somethings not right, like in the movie. People will deny the world in the genjutsu becausse they have what they want, but never had to fight for it and a real past they know of.
And, Obito would still be ****ed. He'd know that it's just all fake, right?
And, if everyone would live in the eternal genjutsu, then their bodies in the real world would just be lying there, not being nursed, fed, and they would die from hunger and dehydration and stuff
 
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To be precise,an individual DREAM WORLD for every individual on this earth.

I never looked at it that way, but you're right, that's possibly also the only right way to look at it 0_o
Wel, If I think about it, even if Obito will cast this, they'll still figure out somethings not right, like in the movie. People will deny the world in the genjutsu becausse they have what they want, but never had to fight for it and a real past they know of.
And, Obito would still be ****ed. He'd know that it's just all fake, right?
And, if everyone would live in the eternal genjutsu, then their bodies in the real world would just be lying there, not being nursed, fed, and they would die from hunger and dehydration and stuff

I think that funny paradox (in the bold) would not be so troublesome as there would be linkages from all the world to the Kamui dimension.....
 

accept pain

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nice thread ....obito will definitly acheive what he wants...and when that will be completed,naruto will definitly shock to see moon eye plan that its totally change what obito had told us before...just my assumptions
 
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I think that there are many good points to your theory, and I would like to add onto it by putting emphasis on three things: the genjutsu of tsukuyomi, the power of the ten tails, and the most recent film for Naruto which was written via Kishimoto's notes.

Tsukuyomi as a jutsu is very powerful, and it is important to note that it was referred to specifically by name when referring to the plan, infinite tsukuyomi. There is relevance in the particulars, and for that we should think about what tsukuyomi as a jutsu actually does. Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu unlike any other in that it the user controls both the time and space within the technique (Itachi controlled the duration of how long he tortured both Sasuke and Kakashi.) The time outside of the technique has no relevance to the time within, one second having barely passed despite the perceived three days while under its effects.

Next I would like to briefly talk about the ten tails power. In a complete form the ten tails was known to have abilities and chakra that affected the entire world (moving continents, being the primordial base of chakra and human existence, etc,) it's incomplete form being capable of launching attacks that could hit continents away, in addition to causing localized natural disasters. Therefore we can assume that a controlled form of this raw power, as an actualized jinchuuriki is supposed to possess, has great potential. Enough chakra to cast and maintain a jutsu for potentially as long as one wishes.

The last point I will make includes the movie and should serve to wrap things up. The movie's premise was all based around an incomplete version of the infinite tsukuyomi, the "limited tsukuyomi." Forgive me for spoiling some of the movie, but within this movie both Naruto and Sakura were caught within the limited tsukuyomi, and spent around two or three days within the illusion. When they finally managed to break it, it was apparent that no time had passed in the real world, despite their experiences within the dream world, as in normal with a normal tsukuyomi. I believe that, rather than there being entirely separate dimensions, it may simply be that each individual is simply in their own illusion, with the necessary chakra for these many individual illusions being provided by the ten tail's chakra. And they will live out their lives, from whatever age they entered until whatever age they "want" to die, because as previously stated, time means nothing within the illusion. Obito himself can enter his illusion and live in it as he wants to look (Madara had previously demonstrated that one can alter their own appearance within the illusion when he first briefed Obito on the plan in their hideout) and despite knowing it was all an illusion, the fact that he could physically interact with anyone in it as if it were real is the appeal to him (if you are familiar with "The Matrix," Cypher's character is similar to Obito.)

This is what I thought, and I look forward to your opinions.
 
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I think that there are many good points to your theory, and I would like to add onto it by putting emphasis on three things: the genjutsu of tsukuyomi, the power of the ten tails, and the most recent film for Naruto which was written via Kishimoto's notes.

Tsukuyomi as a jutsu is very powerful, and it is important to note that it was referred to specifically by name when referring to the plan, infinite tsukuyomi. There is relevance in the particulars, and for that we should think about what tsukuyomi as a jutsu actually does. Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu unlike any other in that it the user controls both the time and space within the technique (Itachi controlled the duration of how long he tortured both Sasuke and Kakashi.) The time outside of the technique has no relevance to the time within, one second having barely passed despite the perceived three days while under its effects.

Next I would like to briefly talk about the ten tails power. In a complete form the ten tails was known to have abilities and chakra that affected the entire world (moving continents, being the primordial base of chakra and human existence, etc,) it's incomplete form being capable of launching attacks that could hit continents away, in addition to causing localized natural disasters. Therefore we can assume that a controlled form of this raw power, as an actualized jinchuuriki is supposed to possess, has great potential. Enough chakra to cast and maintain a jutsu for potentially as long as one wishes.

The last point I will make includes the movie and should serve to wrap things up. The movie's premise was all based around an incomplete version of the infinite tsukuyomi, the "limited tsukuyomi." Forgive me for spoiling some of the movie, but within this movie both Naruto and Sakura were caught within the limited tsukuyomi, and spent around two or three days within the illusion. When they finally managed to break it, it was apparent that no time had passed in the real world, despite their experiences within the dream world, as in normal with a normal tsukuyomi. I believe that, rather than there being entirely separate dimensions, it may simply be that each individual is simply in their own illusion, with the necessary chakra for these many individual illusions being provided by the ten tail's chakra. And they will live out their lives, from whatever age they entered until whatever age they "want" to die, because as previously stated, time means nothing within the illusion. Obito himself can enter his illusion and live in it as he wants to look (Madara had previously demonstrated that one can alter their own appearance within the illusion when he first briefed Obito on the plan in their hideout) and despite knowing it was all an illusion, the fact that he could physically interact with anyone in it as if it were real is the appeal to him (if you are familiar with "The Matrix," Cypher's character is similar to Obito.)

This is what I thought, and I look forward to your opinions.

You have made some very good points. I have nothing more to say about the first two points. Now regarding third point I would like to say something. As was shown in the film it was apparent that no time had passed in the real world, despite their experiences within the dream world.. but lets say that there is a single dimension,not multiple dimensions..Then how you will explain the paradox that I mentioned in my theory? And in the film,it was a limited version of tsukuyomi and it included only Naruto and Sakura. And the worlds around them collapsed too because it was not perfectly done.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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The Mooneye's plan is not evil, rather it is unrealistic. The whole Genjutsu itself is a lie and the question is - can people find true happiness in a fake world where everything they ever dreamt exists in that world? Would they even be aware that they're in a fake world? Because even if they don't, they probably will realise their world is an illusion since everything is too perfect.

No the idea is that everybody doesn't know it's a dream world and that they live in a heaven-esque place. I doubt they would realise that everything is 'too perfect' because in that genjutsu it's all they've ever known. Itachi made Kakashi believe he was stuck in a torture world for two days. And Danzo didn't even know Sasuke was using genjutsu so it's not so hard to believe.
 

Hori

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Impressive thread bro I guess I should increase my expectations on you, you made it with such a delicate attractive manner. Btw its kinda hard to believe that Juubi has Kamui abilities.. just no, or maybe its able to absorb powers of the ones it consumes
 

saw2097

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I always just imagined that everybody has their own seperate world where their dreams can come true. And honestly, I don't see Obito once he has the Tsuki no me being a dictator. The only crimes he's done so far were only to create this good cause (in his eyes) once he has the jutsu active and he's with Rin and Kakashi and his sensei again why would he go and do evil? Madara obviously would but Obito seems like someone whose goals and schemes would end there.

And thus I see no problem with the dreamworld. Or at least, why Naruto and crew hasn't even questioned it to find out what the jutsu entails and what exactly they're trying to stop. Why are they fighting for a war-torn world where little oprhans can go unnoticed and little girls can die through war? These are issues i'd like to see addressed before everyone just determines that Obito's genjutsu is evil.

Oh so unleashing the 9 tails on the Hidden Leaf Village wasn't evil or what about all the people he manipulated and killed across the series. Obito has made it clear what the Genjutsu is, the Shinobi Alliance doesn't want it.

He was seen talking to Kakashi about replacing all the dead with illusions.

And it isn't a perfect world, its what in Obito's mind is a perfect world, he is still only human and is shown to be mentally insane so any world he creates would be corrupt.
 

FemmeFatale

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I had a simular thought to that, like how would that work.
And wouldn't it leave a strong willed victims opportunity to resist and manipulate it for themselves.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Oh so unleashing the 9 tails on the Hidden Leaf Village wasn't evil or what about all the people he manipulated and killed across the series. Obito has made it clear what the Genjutsu is, the Shinobi Alliance doesn't want it.

He was seen talking to Kakashi about replacing all the dead with illusions.

And it isn't a perfect world, its what in Obito's mind is a perfect world, he is still only human and is shown to be mentally insane so any world he creates would be corrupt.

How did I say killing people wasn't evil? Reread, I said all the evil he's done was in his eyes to achieve good, once the sacrifices are out of the way the dreamworld itself doesn't seem to have any real flaws that have been addressed as of yet. Has Obito since he put on the mask and started the plan ever killed anybody out of spite that didn't help him in his cause? Because I count the Uchiha clan (to help the plan) the 9 tails attack (to help the plan) Konan (who attacked him) and the jinchuuriki, which he didn't even do himself.

I'm not arguing Obito isn't evil, because he's quite twisted but he genuinely believes he is doing good and once he has achieved what he wants he has no more reason to be malicious towards anyone because he has his goal.
 

KGB Kakuzu

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Nicely written you do a nice job of addressing some characteristics. Here's my thoughts on it... The Tsukiyomi will fall under one of two categories.

1. It's flawed in that it's geared to one person's dreams

Remember how when Obito had it used on him Madara was the one in control of the dream?! Thisould be a problem for if Obito is in control he can theoretically only manifest his dream AMD this would cause multiples of people to exist causing mass confusion.

2. Obito really can give everyone thwir dream or the order of the genjutsu is to live out your dream.

This would be the only system that would be somewhat successful. If so then you'd be able to manipulate everyone to a perfect world for each individual. While you brought up the concept of multiverses questioning ones self, I don't think that is a problem. Remember that the real you should be happy in the dream. The other yous are false manifestations in the minds of everyone else. As such, Obito does not have to make sure the other you is happy because the other you's state of mind is dependant on what the other genjutsu victim imagines. The minute Obito changes this, the minute someone's dream is being messed with.


Now the flaw to this this

1. Is everyone just standing out on the battlefield we are currently on?! If so, this world will actually die of starvation leaving Obito in his own world.

3. If someone dreams of fighting other countries will the dream manifest shinobi? The problem is dreams only allow you to see people you've seen before so it could end up backfiring because one would notice you see the same old people.





That's my thought anyhow.
 
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