USSJ Future Trunks
Active member
now this is mostly inspired by uberhikari (IMO the best reviewer/debater on youtube. he has owned so many people its hilarious( who made a video about what makes someone a good character or villain. and its usually because of a few reasons
1. purpose
2. ideological or psychlogical complexity.
3. personal preference of the fan
someone is not a "fanboy" or "tard" when they say they like a character and have their reasons for it. i am not a "kabuto tard" just because i have defended his strength level. i merely called it as i saw it. kabuto himself has fallen from my favour lately actually.
but that being said.
i noticed alot of fans basically saying the whole pain arc sucks or pain himself sucks because "naruto's friensbp bullshit made him kil himself" "lol loser lost to a book" "lol nagato sucks dik hes a weakling".
its this kind of shit that i would expect from itachi fans but still. when did the idea that a character learning his errors and trying to change for the better, become a "loss" or a "defeat"? are you trying to tell me that rethinking your ideology and admitting it probably isnt for the better is a bad thing? regaining faith in a village you disliked is a defeat? that is retarded, disrespectful and flawed. its a goddamn victory. even nruto said "his methods were wrong but he truly wanted peace". that never changed. he didnt go from evil bloodthirsty murderer like gaara to "peace is the way!" from a few setneces about friends and comrades. it took real effort and persuasion over at least 5 chapters.
first of all, naruto's TNJ actually did not work. he explained he wants to find an answer, and will do anything to do it. nagato was impressed but not fully won over. it was not the book either. its that his master loved and respected him enough to put him in that book, and explain to him that the world isnt fair, things dont go the way you want them to go, and there can be a good solution. nagato even said that was childish and he can never go that path. but what the can do is trust that jiraiyas student maybe has better ideas than he does. being basically an old man his time was basically done. naruto DIDNT give him an answer but he did promise he'd take on jiraiya's legacy and will and use that to better mankind. seeing that from someone whos so cynical he thinks mankind is destined to just kill each other, came as a massive surprise. imagine a racist, who goes his whole life seeing nothing but shit come from a race of people, killing each other endless.y over and over.
but then imagine this. a kid comes along, BEATS YOU, and tells you to your face that he will help his race change, that they arent all bad, that he will bring everything together.
that shit got to him. and it is in line with nagatos character. his whole character was all about peace, obtaining peace. traching others about pain so they can understand the value of peae. and narut comes in ad says he wants peace as well and will use what hes learned about hate to try and turn this around. its not hopelessly idealisitc like jiraiya. becaue naruto has been taught pain. he knows humans are vicious people and wont unite by words alone or because someone tells them to hold hands and jump for joy. and nagato sympathized. he said "you know what? thats a good idea. ill leave this to you, naruto. jiraiya lives on inside of you and i feel happy dying knowing youll take care of shit here".
this is not the first time a villain has changed his ways but still kept in line with what makes him who he is. nagato's ideals remained basically the same. he wanted peace. he still wants it. all that changed is he went from trying to do it all himself to leaving to to the man who proved him wrong about a few things. nagato is not a "naruto worshiper". he thinks naruto is this funny little kid who is going to grow up one day and become a bringer of peace.
now onto what makes him a great or terrifying villain.
a villain is usually someone who poses a great threat to the heroes, gives him a challgen both physically and mentally, and does it in an interesting or cool way.
nagato is powerful. i give him that. his arc is one of the only ones where i felt like the heroes were helpless and their backs were against the wall. this guy just could not be stopped.
but having power and blowing up a bunch of shit doesnt make you a good villain, sorry madara. you need to have some type of proper ideology into what your doing and what you want. you need to have some type of uniqueness and complexity about you. as i just showed, nagato does have a lot of complexity. it took a whole lot of fighting and talking to get him to put his faith and will into a heroic boy. he didnt admit he was wrong and the nuking shouldn't go down. he didnt say that. he said narutos an interesting kid and should take over what jiraiya wanted to do which nagato refused to do. he couldnt do it. and that is in his mind, the main failure or mistake he actually made.
thorwing at us a bunch of hax ass shit and expecting us to buy that as a good or decent villain isnt what a good writer would do. madara been forgot his own goals or reason why he is. as a child he was like "i want peace but i want to force it on them". now its backwards. now all he wants is raw power or to fight strong opponents because tobirama was mean and his clan didnt trust him. he became what he hated so much before. its inconsistent and confusing.
second thing a villain needs. is some type of role, purpose or significance in the narrative.
nagato has this. he was the main antagonistic force behind the series ever since we found out itachi and kisame had a "boss" to report to and get ordered around by. he wasnt in the story just to be the in between bad guy between oro and obito or to have someone to give a rinnegan to obito. he is in the story to
1. be the face of akatsuki and give it a threatening presence
2. be the second "naruto gone evil" after gaara came around
3. be the child of prophecy alongside naruto and teach the reader about the nature of hatred and the shinobi world's nature.
4. introduce to us minor vilages and how the major nations corruption ruined the smaller ones.
this is extremely important and ties into alot of diferent things and themes.
third thing i want to address.
no nagato was not a puppet. an unwitting one sort of, but he wasnt like "mwah control me madara, control be obito, im too weak to make decisions on my own waaa reality is too hard waaa". he barely functioned as obito's subordinate. he talked shit to obito about sasuke. he ignored the moons eye plan to do his own thing. and like konan said, he held into his beliefs and never became what he hated which is a power hungry bloodthirsty maniac who just wants to fight. like madara. or someone whos obsessed with just one person like itachi and obito. nagato cared about yahiko but it wasnt his whole character or his goal to bring back yahiko. it was to bring about a dream that he grew to want on his own. he had his own path, his own dreams. his eyes were the puppets/tools. not nagato himself. he probably didnt even know about the plot to bring madara back.
(and yes you can officially call be a obito hater. bring me good villains please)
1. purpose
2. ideological or psychlogical complexity.
3. personal preference of the fan
someone is not a "fanboy" or "tard" when they say they like a character and have their reasons for it. i am not a "kabuto tard" just because i have defended his strength level. i merely called it as i saw it. kabuto himself has fallen from my favour lately actually.
but that being said.
i noticed alot of fans basically saying the whole pain arc sucks or pain himself sucks because "naruto's friensbp bullshit made him kil himself" "lol loser lost to a book" "lol nagato sucks dik hes a weakling".
its this kind of shit that i would expect from itachi fans but still. when did the idea that a character learning his errors and trying to change for the better, become a "loss" or a "defeat"? are you trying to tell me that rethinking your ideology and admitting it probably isnt for the better is a bad thing? regaining faith in a village you disliked is a defeat? that is retarded, disrespectful and flawed. its a goddamn victory. even nruto said "his methods were wrong but he truly wanted peace". that never changed. he didnt go from evil bloodthirsty murderer like gaara to "peace is the way!" from a few setneces about friends and comrades. it took real effort and persuasion over at least 5 chapters.
first of all, naruto's TNJ actually did not work. he explained he wants to find an answer, and will do anything to do it. nagato was impressed but not fully won over. it was not the book either. its that his master loved and respected him enough to put him in that book, and explain to him that the world isnt fair, things dont go the way you want them to go, and there can be a good solution. nagato even said that was childish and he can never go that path. but what the can do is trust that jiraiyas student maybe has better ideas than he does. being basically an old man his time was basically done. naruto DIDNT give him an answer but he did promise he'd take on jiraiya's legacy and will and use that to better mankind. seeing that from someone whos so cynical he thinks mankind is destined to just kill each other, came as a massive surprise. imagine a racist, who goes his whole life seeing nothing but shit come from a race of people, killing each other endless.y over and over.
but then imagine this. a kid comes along, BEATS YOU, and tells you to your face that he will help his race change, that they arent all bad, that he will bring everything together.
that shit got to him. and it is in line with nagatos character. his whole character was all about peace, obtaining peace. traching others about pain so they can understand the value of peae. and narut comes in ad says he wants peace as well and will use what hes learned about hate to try and turn this around. its not hopelessly idealisitc like jiraiya. becaue naruto has been taught pain. he knows humans are vicious people and wont unite by words alone or because someone tells them to hold hands and jump for joy. and nagato sympathized. he said "you know what? thats a good idea. ill leave this to you, naruto. jiraiya lives on inside of you and i feel happy dying knowing youll take care of shit here".
this is not the first time a villain has changed his ways but still kept in line with what makes him who he is. nagato's ideals remained basically the same. he wanted peace. he still wants it. all that changed is he went from trying to do it all himself to leaving to to the man who proved him wrong about a few things. nagato is not a "naruto worshiper". he thinks naruto is this funny little kid who is going to grow up one day and become a bringer of peace.
now onto what makes him a great or terrifying villain.
a villain is usually someone who poses a great threat to the heroes, gives him a challgen both physically and mentally, and does it in an interesting or cool way.
nagato is powerful. i give him that. his arc is one of the only ones where i felt like the heroes were helpless and their backs were against the wall. this guy just could not be stopped.
but having power and blowing up a bunch of shit doesnt make you a good villain, sorry madara. you need to have some type of proper ideology into what your doing and what you want. you need to have some type of uniqueness and complexity about you. as i just showed, nagato does have a lot of complexity. it took a whole lot of fighting and talking to get him to put his faith and will into a heroic boy. he didnt admit he was wrong and the nuking shouldn't go down. he didnt say that. he said narutos an interesting kid and should take over what jiraiya wanted to do which nagato refused to do. he couldnt do it. and that is in his mind, the main failure or mistake he actually made.
thorwing at us a bunch of hax ass shit and expecting us to buy that as a good or decent villain isnt what a good writer would do. madara been forgot his own goals or reason why he is. as a child he was like "i want peace but i want to force it on them". now its backwards. now all he wants is raw power or to fight strong opponents because tobirama was mean and his clan didnt trust him. he became what he hated so much before. its inconsistent and confusing.
second thing a villain needs. is some type of role, purpose or significance in the narrative.
nagato has this. he was the main antagonistic force behind the series ever since we found out itachi and kisame had a "boss" to report to and get ordered around by. he wasnt in the story just to be the in between bad guy between oro and obito or to have someone to give a rinnegan to obito. he is in the story to
1. be the face of akatsuki and give it a threatening presence
2. be the second "naruto gone evil" after gaara came around
3. be the child of prophecy alongside naruto and teach the reader about the nature of hatred and the shinobi world's nature.
4. introduce to us minor vilages and how the major nations corruption ruined the smaller ones.
this is extremely important and ties into alot of diferent things and themes.
third thing i want to address.
no nagato was not a puppet. an unwitting one sort of, but he wasnt like "mwah control me madara, control be obito, im too weak to make decisions on my own waaa reality is too hard waaa". he barely functioned as obito's subordinate. he talked shit to obito about sasuke. he ignored the moons eye plan to do his own thing. and like konan said, he held into his beliefs and never became what he hated which is a power hungry bloodthirsty maniac who just wants to fight. like madara. or someone whos obsessed with just one person like itachi and obito. nagato cared about yahiko but it wasnt his whole character or his goal to bring back yahiko. it was to bring about a dream that he grew to want on his own. he had his own path, his own dreams. his eyes were the puppets/tools. not nagato himself. he probably didnt even know about the plot to bring madara back.
(and yes you can officially call be a obito hater. bring me good villains please)
