How can Hashirama beat Naruto?

[GrayParadise]

Well... There is a way. It might not work, but it's possible. The real Naruto could focus on escaping rather than trying to destroy the statue. He could use ransenshuriken to cut through the fists in front of him and escape the barrage. Just a thought.

Running is probably his best bet. I know Hashi can't keep it up forever, and it probably moved too slow. And just from my observations... This seems kind of like a Naruto wank thread. No offense though. It's just that his Rasengans are so hilariously weak compared to actual Bijuu Bombs I can't believe people are putting them on the same level.

In my belief, Rasenshuriken can't cut through the hands, let alone the full body. It's gotten far, far too much mass and is way to thick and bulky. I doubt he could even muster up the width of a Rasenshuriken that big, roughly the size of a meteor to cut through it.

I wouldn't put Hashirama's chakra levels on the same level as Naruto and the kyuubi. But it really doesn't matter who has the most.

Naruto can escape by using his

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, destroy the the forest with a technique or simply sit in the 9 tails construct where he's above the pollen.

He can maybe blitz through it. But like I said, he's a dead man if he doesn't know of the threat. Hashirama either way will have the upper hand if they were to fight, because he's already seen Kurama's power and knows what he's capable of. But what will Naruto do when Hashi releases 4 clones and makes a barrier around the Flower world, trapping him inside it?

I'm positive

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can cut through the 1k hands, just like the sword+tbb's madara did. Then there's odama rasenshuriken which could probably cut it in half and it's explosion can take out the statue and the

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.

Like I said above, in my belief, Rasenshuriken is weaker than the real Bijuu Dama Shuriken. And I pretty much responded to the rest of that earlier as well.

1k hands attacks are too quick for the fastest character who can react to v2 A's speed in a weaker mode? or 2nd fastest we don't know how fast Minato's foot speed is.

And yes. 1000 hands will be noticeably harder to dodge than 1 person.

Glad that you're giving reasons, but flower world wouldn't work. All Naruto has to do is throw ransenshuriken or massive ransenshuriken to shred the flower.

Rasenshuriken is a straightforward attack that is only sent out in one direction, it wouldn't clear as much of a safe, pollen free area as Oonoki did with his blast. And if he tries thrusting a Rasengan into the ground big enough to clear himself of the area, which im sure he can do, with a rasengan that big he'll be damaging himself in the process, since he'll be so close within the range of his own attack. It'd be kind of like what Sasuke did clearing himself of Deidara's bombs in his body. Hurting himself to protect himself. A win/lose situation.

 

[KidGamer65]

The posts in this thread are giving me cancer. Rasen Shuriken cutting down the Buddha? A weaker tech doing what a stronger tech failed to do?

Well... There is a way. It might not work, but it's possible. The real Naruto could focus on escaping rather than trying to destroy the statue. He could use ransenshuriken to cut through the fists in front of him and escape the barrage. Just a thought.

Madara fired 12 Bijuu Dama with PS Blades (Mountain Range cutting blades) and Chojo Kebutsu plowed into them all and still had enough power to bust open Madara's Susanoo.

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Yet you think a few FRS are going to not only destroy the fist coming at him (Which had enough AoE and power to create VoTE) and you think he's going to be able to escape it as well? Lets be serious here.

 

[Joshutsu]

Well he beat madara + kurama wrapped in susano. The only diff with Naruto is that the kyubi is inside of him. His jutsu can easily take out Naruto.

 

[5pace time continuum]

this is a cringeworthy thread lol.

comparing a full-fledged-primed shinobi against a 16 year old hmmmm, when isn't at his prime hmmmm?

Naruto's time will come soon, his far from Hashirama's status lol.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

The posts in this thread are giving me cancer. Rasen Shuriken cutting down the Buddha? A weaker tech doing what a stronger tech failed to do?



Madara fired 12 Bijuu Dama with PS Blades (Mountain Range cutting blades) and Chojo Kebutsu plowed into them all and still had enough power to bust open Madara's Susanoo.

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Yet you think a few FRS are going to not only destroy the fist coming at him (Which had enough AoE and power to create VoTE) and you think he's going to be able to escape it as well? Lets be serious here.

:vincent:

Read my post more carefully. I did not say it would destroy the statue. I'm saying that Naruto could try to go through the barrage and use ransenshuriken to cut through the fists that he can't manage to dodge. It's far different from what Madara did. Madara attempted to destroy the statue itself with the TBB with susanoo swords. I'm saying Naruto would try to go through the barrage, dodge fists by jumping from arm to arm, and use ransenshuriken to cut through the fists that he failed to dodge. Madara tried to overpower, Naruto will try to evade. That's the difference Kidgamer. Saying Naruto could overpower the statue is ludicrous, as a result, I didn't claim that he could.

 

[Strict]

I more or less agree with what you're saying. I have a different idea on how Naruto survives. However, what's stopping Naruto from making shadow clones to make multiple massive ransenshurikens?

It would be less effective than the attack Madara used against the Shinsuusenju, as I believe that a Bijuudama from the Kyuubi, that is equipped with the perfect Susanoo's swordblade has by far more destructive force than a Chou Rasenshuriken. That Bijuudama barrage caused an explosion that dwarfed mountains like they were small bows on the landscape. It would make more sense if Naruto used a continuous Bijuudama or his huge one, although I don't think that even this would reach the force Madara created with more than 10 Bijuudama's.

First of all if you're going to quote me in your signature quote me correctly instead of leaving out most of the post. Secondly use paragraphs it makes it a lot easier for others to read and respond to your posts.

Since when where each of the 1k hands a mountain buster? The kyuubi was unscathed after being pummeled by the 1k hands thanks to susanoo, he was not demolished like you put. Naruto's able to swat away tbb's and tank a juubi dama, those punches aren't going to be enough to destroy his 9 tails construct especially after most of the hands are destroyed by a barrage of rasenshurikens.

If the statue picks up Naruto in his avatar what's stopping him from simply leaving it and going after Hashirama? Why would he get picked up and finished like the 9 tails?

As for Chou odama rasenshurkien's size,

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are a lot more accurate than you simply saying, "no it's not".

The gates were mostly destroyed by 1 tbb blade, Naruto rasenshikens don't have to be thrown and can be redirected with chakra arms they're also sharp enough to cut through the Juubi's tails. Hashirama has been shown to catch regular bijuu dama's that doesn't mean all tbb's are ineffective how about the charged versions?

The space for my signature is limited to a few lines, so the quote is limited to the main part - your opinion. But I was so kind to remove it for you.

Each of the 1K hands has a size coming close to a mountain [

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]; so if one of these hands was about to strike a mountain, it would most probably bust it.

The Kyuubi also wasn't unscratched but visibly battered as it was t least trembling.

Further, you should compare the size a Bijuu has compared to a human, compare the size it has to Gamakichi and then, compare the explosion Hachibi's TBB had compared to Hachibi himself. And now visualize what power the +10 Bijuudama's of the Kyuubi, which were equipped with Susanoo's blades had and try to tell me how Naruto's Chou Rasenshuriken barrage (it isn't even proved how much of them he could use at the same time) would reach nearly the power Madara's attack displayed.

And when did the Rasenshuriken show to cut the Juubi's tails? Yeah, it was Naruto who was in front of the army, but it was still the whole army forming a phoenix with the Chakra of Kyuubi to cut two tails; how could the Rasenshuriken even affect two if it was the cause for this? Or am I missing the part of the Rasenshuriken cutting a tail alone? Madara hyped the perfect Susanoo's sword to have enough power to break all creation with one blow, showing feats of slicing mountain ranges. Why do you think a Chou Rasenshuriken could rival with the magnitude of Madara's attacks?

And if Hashirama could catch a regular Bijuudama, why not a huger one? The principle is exactly the same and Hashirama used tendrils with the diameter of Kurama himself [

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] and also used huge wooden sculptures able to stop the slash of the perfect Susanoo [

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]. Plus, if Naruto enters Bijuumode and uses that huge Kyuubi avatar, Hashirama could simply use the wood dragon to absorb it. Saying that Naruto could blitz Hashirama by leaving the avatar is also mere speculation; the avatar is Naruto's type of Bijuumode with Naruto staying inside its head and sending out clones. If he want to fight by himself, he would have to dissolve that avatar instead.

And although Naruto showed speed feats in a few cases, curiously, he never used the speed the Naruto proponents are so proud of to blitz the opponents with a direct attack. The two best examples may be: [

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/

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][

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]. So going by the speed feats Naruto displayed against opponents he shouldn't restrain, Hashirama could catch Naruto off guard with his techniques whether he is in his Kyuubi avatar or not.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Spoiler

It would be less effective than the attack Madara used against the Shinsuusenju, as I believe that a Bijuudama from the Kyuubi, that is equipped with the perfect Susanoo's swordblade has by far more destructive force than a Chou Rasenshuriken. That Bijuudama barrage caused an explosion that dwarfed mountains like they were small bows on the landscape. It would make more sense if Naruto used a continuous Bijuudama or his huge one, although I don't think that even this would reach the force Madara created with more than 10 Bijuudama's.



The space for my signature is limited to a few lines, so the quote is limited to the main part - your opinion. But I was so kind to remove it for you.

Each of the 1K hands has a size coming close to a mountain [

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]; so if one of these hands was about to strike a mountain, it would most probably bust it.

The Kyuubi also wasn't unscratched but visibly battered as it was t least trembling.

Further, you should compare the size a Bijuu has compared to a human, compare the size it has to Gamakichi and than, compare the explosion Hachibi's TBB had compared to Hachibi himself. And now visualize what power the +10 Bijuudama's of the Kyuubi, which were equipped with Susanoo's blades had and try to tell me how Naruto's Chou Rasenshuriken barrage (it isn't even proved how much of them he could use at the same time) would reach nearly the power Madara's attack displayed.

And when did the Rasenshuriken show to cut the Juubi's tails? Yeah, it was Naruto who was in front of the army, but it was still the whole army forming a phoenix with the Chakra of Kyuubi to cut two tails; how could the Rasenshuriken even affect two if it was the cause for this? Or am I missing the part of the Rasenshuriken cutting a tail alone? Madara hyped the perfect Susanoo's sword to have enough power to break all creation with one blow, showing feats of slicing mountain ranges. Why do you think a Chou Rasenshuriken could rival with the magnitude of Madara's attacks?

And if Hashirama could catch a regular Bijuudama, why not a huger one? The principle is exactly the same and Hashirama used tendrils with the diameter of Kurama himself [

You must be registered for see links

] and also used huge wooden sculptures able to stop the slash of the perfect Susanoo [

You must be registered for see links

]. Plus, if Naruto enters Bijuumode and uses that huge Kyuubi avatar, Hashirama could simply use the wood dragon to absorb it. Saying that Naruto could blitz Hashirama by leaving the avatar is also mere speculation; the avatar is Naruto's type of Bijuumode with Naruto staying inside its head and sending out clones. If he want to fight by himself, he would have to dissolve that avatar instead.

And although Naruto showed speed feats in a few cases, curiously, he never used the speed the Naruto proponents so proud of to blitz the opponents with a direct attack. The two best examples may be: [

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/

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. So going by the speed feats Naruto displayed against opponents he shouldn't restrain, Hashiram could catch Naruto off guard with his techniques whether he is in his Kyuubi avatar or not.

There's been no explanation on the phoenix. I see no evidence that they were transferring power to Naruto. If any power transfer were involved, it would be through a combination of the 9 tails chakra. In which case, Naruto could do the same thing with shadow clones.

If you look on Naruto wiki, you'll see that his twin ransenshuriken was what cut through the juubi.

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[KidGamer65]

:vincent:

Read my post more carefully. I did not say it would destroy the statue. I'm saying that Naruto could try to go through the barrage and use ransenshuriken to cut through the fists that he can't manage to dodge. It's far different from what Madara did. Madara attempted to destroy the statue itself with the TBB with susanoo swords. I'm saying Naruto would try to go through the barrage, dodge fists by jumping from arm to arm, and use ransenshuriken to cut through the fists that he failed to dodge. Madara tried to overpower, Naruto will try to evade. That's the difference Kidgamer. Saying Naruto could overpower the statue is ludicrous, as a result, I didn't claim that he could.

Read the post more carefully. The bold is what I was responding to. Where did I say that he would destroy the whole statue? The fact you think he can dodge something that was able to create the whole VoTE is completely ridiculous at best. The fact you think he can a fist that was able to go through Bijuu Dama combined with PS Blades with FRS is ridiculous.

Yet you think a few FRS are going to not only destroy the fist coming at him (Which had enough AoE and power to create VoTE) and you think he's going to be able to escape it as well? Lets be serious here.

Again, read more carefully before you respond. The fist went through those Bijuu Dama/PS blades before it hit Susanoo, and it still had enough power to break Susanoo, why would FRS let Naruto destroy the fists coming at him and escape the statue? I hope you weren't referring to the paragraph above your quote, cause that obviously wasn't a reply to you nor was it referencing you.

@italics: Not sure if srs...

 

[KidGamer65]

There's been no explanation on the phoenix. I see no evidence that they were transferring power to Naruto. If any power transfer were involved, it would be through a combination of the 9 tails chakra. In which case, Naruto could do the same thing with shadow clones.

If you look on Naruto wiki, you'll see that his twin ransenshuriken was what cut through the juubi.

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You can clearly see it was a combined attack, hence the phoenix appearing in the first place.

Manga>Naruto wiki. Don't even know why you bothered to reference it.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Read the post more carefully. The bold is what I was responding to. Where did I say that he would destroy the whole statue? The fact you think he can dodge something that was able to create the whole VoTE is completely ridiculous at best. The fact you think he can a fist that was able to go through Bijuu Dama combined with PS Blades with FRS is ridiculous.



Again, read more carefully before you respond. The fist went through those Bijuu Dama/PS blades before it hit Susanoo, and it still had enough power to break Susanoo, why would FRS let Naruto destroy the fists coming at him and escape the statue? I hope you weren't referring to the paragraph above your quote, cause that obviously wasn't a reply to you nor was it referencing you.

@italics: Not sure if srs...

Yes, I was responding to your first paragraph since I was the only one you quoted. However, you still don't understand what I'm implying. Naruto won't be staying on the ground where the shockwaves can get him. He'll be dashing upwards and essentially climbing the statue to avoid the devastation below. I just thought that since that's the only possible way he couldn't have been affected by the shock waves, that it would be obvious.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes, I was responding to your first paragraph since I was the only one you quoted. However, you still don't understand what I'm implying. Naruto won't be staying on the ground where the shockwaves can get him. He be dashing upwards and essentially climbing the statue to avoid the devastation below. I just thought that since that's the only possible way he couldn't have been affected by the shock waves, that it would be obvious.

Usually when you reply to someone who quoted you. You only reply to the part below the quote, not above. Especially since I said the posts in this thread are giving me cancer, posts referring to multiple posts from multiple people.

This is so unrealistic that isn't even funny. Naruto dashing up the statue? While Hashirama just stands there and lets him get to the statue? Again, lets be serious here..

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Usually when you reply to someone who quoted you. You only reply to the part below the quote, not above. Especially since I said the posts in this thread are giving me cancer, posts referring to multiple posts from multiple people.

This is so unrealistic that isn't even funny. Naruto dashing up the statue? While Hashirama just stands there and lets him get to the statue? Again, lets be serious here..

Has Hashirama been seen multitasking while using the statue? No, he has to detach himself for that, which might actually stop the jutsu with the statue.

 

[BlackFlame44]

You can clearly see it was a combined attack, hence the phoenix appearing in the first place.

Manga>Naruto wiki. Don't even know why you bothered to reference it.

Naruto was at the front of the bird so yeah he cut it down

 

[Midday]

Each of the 1K hands has a size coming close to a mountain [

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]; so if one of these hands was about to strike a mountain, it would most probably bust it.

Okay.

The Kyuubi also wasn't unscratched but visibly battered as it was at least trembling.

I can't see any tremble lines around it. Just dust and debris around it.

Spoiler

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Further, you should compare the size a Bijuu has compared to a human, compare the size it has to Gamakichi and than, compare the explosion Hachibi's TBB had compared to Hachibi himself. And now visualize what power the +10 Bijuudama's of the Kyuubi, which were equipped with Susanoo's blades had and try to tell me how Naruto's Chou Rasenshuriken barrage (it isn't even proved how much of them he could use at the same time) would reach nearly the power Madara's attack displayed.

My thread was made to get an idea of how large odama rasenshurikens explosion would be, comparing bijuu's/humans/tbb's aren't necessary for it.

As for a chou odama rasenshuriken barrage, it was mainly about cutting off the arms in a similar fashion to the tbb+swords. The technique itself is larger than each of the tbb's+swords Madara used, the explosions are just estimates as of now so it's anyones guess but I worked it out to be 45 Gamakichi's which takes up a large portion of the 1k hand statue. Rasenshuriken also works differently from a tbb, it slices up what's in the explosion and pretty much turns it to dust like it did to on of the paths.

And when did the Rasenshuriken show to cut the Juubi's tails? Yeah, it was Naruto who was in front of the army, but it was still the whole army forming a phoenix with the Chakra of Kyuubi to cut two tails; how could the Rasenshuriken even affect two if it was the cause for this? Or am I missing the part of the Rasenshuriken cutting a tail alone? Madara hyped the perfect Susanoo's sword to have enough power to break all creation with one blow, showing feats of slicing mountain ranges. Why do you think a Chou Rasenshuriken could rival with the magnitude of Madara's attacks?

Rasenshuriken was at the tip of the phoenix that cut the tail.

Spoiler

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Hype is just hype. We saw a sm rasenshuriken cut through several pieces of the chibaku tensei which were close to mountain sized. Now scale it up to Odama rasenshuriken.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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And if Hashirama could catch a regular Bijuudama, why not a huger one? The principle is exactly the same and Hashirama used tendrils with the diameter of Kurama himself [

You must be registered for see links

] and also used huge wooden sculptures able to stop the slash of the perfect Susanoo [

You must be registered for see links

]. Plus, if Naruto enters Bijuumode and uses that huge Kyuubi avatar, Hashirama could simply use the wood dragon to absorb it. Saying that Naruto could blitz Hashirama by leaving the avatar is also mere speculation; the avatar is Naruto's type of Bijuumode with Naruto staying inside its head and sending out clones. If he want to fight by himself, he would have to dissolve that avatar instead.

Hashirama had to use that specific

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as his regular one's weren't enough to stop a tbb like the wood dragon which was cleanly cut through.
There's also a difference between catching a tennis ball and a ball the same size as you, that's the reasoning why Hashirama is going to have a hard time trying to catch a charged tbb. The size and weight make it a lot harder.

Wood dragon is easily countered, first time he had no knowledge and easily left his avatar and

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. He could simply destroy it the same way the Kyuubi did in the Madara fight. As for him leaving the cloak, it's not mere speculation check the link earlier in the paragraph.

And although Naruto showed speed feats in a few cases, curiously, he never used the speed the Naruto proponents so proud of to blitz the opponents with a direct attack. The two best examples may be: [

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/

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. So going by the speed feats Naruto displayed against opponents he shouldn't restrain, Hashiram could catch Naruto off guard with his techniques whether he is in his Kyuubi avatar or not.

The scans you showed of Naruto being stopped in bijuu mode are when Naruto's not using his blitz speed there's a clear difference between the attack he did on Madara where his clone is falling through the air and when he used his speed to slap away the tbb's. I can't be bothered to find the scan of Naruto blitzing Kisame first time he used his new speed.

 

[KidGamer65]

Has Hashirama been seen multitasking while using the statue? No, he has to detach himself for that, which might actually stop the jutsu with the statue.

Multitasking? What are you talking about? If Naruto comes towards his statue, all he needs to do is paste him with the statue. Simple as that.

Naruto was at the front of the bird so yeah he cut it down

Combined attack is obviously a combined attack.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Multitasking? What are you talking about? If Naruto comes towards his statue, all he needs to do is paste him with the statue. Simple as that.




Combined attack is obviously a combined attack.

1. What makes you think that he can change the direction of his attack once it starts?

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It's not humanly possible to direct so many arms like that except in only one direction. Plus, the momentum probably wouldn't let him.


2. It was never stated to be a combined attack. There's no official record that states that it's a combined attack, so jury's still out on that one. Plus, what exactly did the other shinobi do? The only thing I saw them doing was traveling with Naruto.

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The only thing they possibly could have done is focus the 9 tails chakra, and if that's the case, Naruto can do this trick with shadow clones. Plus, Naruto was the tip. The tip, the thing that cut the juubi. The ransenshuriken didn't look unusual. The only thing they could have possibly done to enhance it, is forcing the cut Naruto already made open wider.

 

[KidGamer65]

1. What makes you think that he can change the direction of his attack once it starts?

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It's not humanly possible to direct so many arms like that except in only one direction. Plus, the momentum probably wouldn't let him.

Why would he need to change his attack? Its as simple as this.

-If Naruto comes toward him.
-He attacks with Chojo Kebutsu.
-Naruto dies.

Simple as that.

2. It was never stated to be a combined attack. There's no official record that states that it's a combined attack, so jury's still out on that one. Plus, what exactly did the other shinobi do? The only thing I saw them doing was traveling with Naruto.

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The only thing they possibly could have done is focus the 9 tails chakra, and if that's the case, Naruto can do this trick with shadow clones. Plus, Naruto was the tip. The tip, the thing that cut the juubi. The ransenshuriken didn't look unusual. The only thing they could have possibly done to enhance it, is forcing the cut Naruto already made open wider.

It doesn't need to be stated because its as obvious as day that is a combined attack, hence the combined form the Shinobi took.

What did the other Shinobi do?

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Take off the selective reading goggles. You can clearly see them form into a phoenix and cut through 3 of the Juubi's tails. It doesn't matter if Naruto was the tip as he didn't cut them by himself.

It was a combined attack.

You better have scans of Naruto being able to use as many Shadow Clones as there is alliance members when in BM.

 

[AGoodBoy]

bahahahahahahahahahhfahahahah naruto overration getting sky high. First Nagato now hashirama. oh boy, he's soon going to be stronger than edo madara too huh? maybe even juubi lel

 

[Turson]

bahahahahahahahahahhfahahahah naruto overration getting sky high. First Nagato now hashirama. oh boy, he's soon going to be stronger than edo madara too huh? maybe even juubi lel

Actually, Naruto is stronger than alive Nagato, there is nothing funny in it.

 

[Bronze]

I know. Hashirama can't fight 1000 clones in KCM and giant rasengans and light speed at the same time. He gets stomped.