Nagato Can't Counter Kirin

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Icelerate

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Kirin>Preta Path​
First off, Kirin can't get absorbed by Preta Path because it is made out of natural lightning. Preta Path can only absorb attacks that contain chakra but natural lightning is pure lightning without any chakra.

Kirin>Deva Path​
In order to understand this section, you must know how the force of electricity and the force of gravity are calculated as well as how Sasuke launches Kirin and Nagato launches Shinra Tensei.

Force of Electricity
First off, the force of electricity is calculated through the formula: F = kq1q2/r^2. F is the force of electricity, k is the universal electrical force constant of 9.0X10^9, q1 is the amount of charges in coulombs of the first source, q2 is the amount of charge in coulombs of the second source and finally, r is the distance, in meters, between the two sources, q1 and q2. So in this scenario, r is the distance between Sasuke and the thundercloud, q1 is the amount of electrical charge in the thundercloud and q2 is the amount of electrical charge in Sasuke's own hand.

The lightning bolt contains 5 coulombs of electrical charge but keep in mind two things. It was said that Kakashi was able to cut lighting with his raikiri so we'll assume that a skilled lightning release user with an average amount of chakra can produce up to 5 coulombs of electrical charge in their hands or else Kakashi would have got overwhelmed by the amount of electrical charge in the lightning bolt. Bare in mind that kirin is much stronger than a regular lightning bolt because after lightning strikes, the thundercloud doesn't go away, but when Sasuke uses kirin, it does go away because he uses up most of the electrical charge in the thundercloud. On average, thunderclouds have an electrical charge of between but just to be on the safe side, we'll assume that the thundercloud that Sasuke creates to use kirin has 350 coulombs of charge. So q1, the amount of electrical charge in the thundercloud is 350 C. q2 is going to be 5 coulombs because we already determined that a skilled lightning release user can produce up to 5 coulombs of electricity in their hands.

Force of Gravity
Secondly, the force of gravity is calculated through the formula: F = GMm/r^2. F is the force of gravity, G is the universal gravitational force constant of 6.67X10^-11, M is the mass of the more massive object, m is the mass of the less massive object and r is the distance between the two masses, M and m. Notice how the universal gravitational force constant is much much weaker than the universal electrical force constant? The electrical force constant is 1.349X10^20 times greater than the gravitational force constant. In this case scenario, M is Nagato's mass in kg, m is the mass of the lightning bolt in kg and r is the distance between the lightning bolt and Nagato in meters.

Nagato was an extremely thin and frail man so his mass ought to be much lower compared to the average man which is . We'll assume Nagato weighs 50 kg which is a reasonable approximation of his mass IMO. The mass of the lightning bolt he will be repelling is going to be approximately the same as the thunder cloud because Sasuke will be using up most of the thundercloud to utilize Kirin. This mass is equal to 3.96893e9 kg.

The value of r is not important because the distance between Sasuke and the thundercloud or Nagato and the thundercloud will be roughly the same so we'll ignore the division of r^2 as doing so is redundant.

Force of Electricity = kq1q2 / r^2
= 9.0X10^9(350)(5) / r^2
=1.575X10^13 / r^2

Force of Gravity = GMm / r^2
= 6.67X10^-11(3.96893e9)(50) / r^2
= 13.236 / r^2

Now I'm well aware of the fact that Nagato's shinra tensei has much more force as shown in the manga than what I just calculated, but bare in mind that even still, in general, it is a well known fact that the force of gravity is negligible compared to the force of electricity. Also even in manga context, shinra tensei dispelling lightning doesn't make much sense either.

Edit: Here is the deal, as the distance between Nagato and the lightning bolt decreases, the force he can apply to it exponentially increases because the distance between Nagato and the lightning bolt has an inverse square relationship with the force of gravity. If he can time it right, he might be able to counter Kirin right before it hits him. However, the distance between Sasuke and the lightning bolt will also decrease so the amount of force Sasuke can exert on the lightning bolt will also increase dramatically.

The only way I can think of Nagato being able to counter Kirin is by utilizing his own chakra energy and turning it into something with mass. E = MC^2 denotes the relationship between mass, in kg, and energy, in joules. C is the constant, the speed of light, which is 3.00X10^8 m/s. However, to create a mass strong enough to overcome the force of electricity, he'd have to a very large mass to use as gravity.

Let's find the mass Nagato would have to have in order to cancel out Kirin: m will be the variable we are looking for.

To cancel the force of lightning. Force of electricity = Force of gravity
kq1q2 / r^2 = GMm / r^2
*r cancels because it is nearly equal
kq1q2 = 1.575X10^13, as we found earlier.
1.575X10^13 = 6.67X10^-11(3.96893e9)m
m = 5.9495e13 kg

Now let's find the amount of chakra energy Nagato would have to create in order to utilize a massive shinra tensei to cancel Kirin out.

E = mc^2
E = 5.9495e13(3e8)
E = 1.7849e22 J

Nagato is an Uzumaki with a huge chakra reserve but he'd have convert his entire body's mass into chakra based energy and that still wouldn't be enough energy to counter Kirin. Not even close....

However, I agree that Nagato>>>EMS Sasuke.

Note: 1.0X10^10 = 1e10, just so if you are confused what e means.
 
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Nous

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Wow! Nice, understood it all. As always, excellent thread Icelerate.
 

Invsblphntm

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Cool, cool, cool.


The obvious question arises, however; how will Sasuke EVER get Kirin prepared on Nagato?
 

accept pain

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why u jealous of nagato godly prowess.
 

ballerjordan

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That kind of logic wouldn't work for Kishi's manga

Sasuke simply is directing the Kirin using his chakra, he is manipulating it with his chakra

Preta path could possibly absorb it

Nice thread
 

Minator93

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Nagato shits on Kirin. A kid Kakashi was able to cut a lightening with his Chidori U_U
 
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Fodder#4

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Nice work and all, but I doubt Sasuke would use Kirin on Pein or Nagato. Depending on the version, an MS and Hebi wouldn't get the prep in time before they were defeated.

And an EMS wouldn't require it to win.
 

Optimistic

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Sasuke wouldn't even live long enough to use it but nice thread.
 
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That kind of logic wouldn't work for Kishi's manga

Sasuke simply is directing the Kirin using his chakra, he is manipulating it with his chakra

Preta path could possibly absorb it

Nice thread

^^This, you can't always apply real world logic to a Manga, especially Naruto. Not even counting the fact that it's extremely difficult to set up. It is possible the animal path could counter Kirin.
 

Thundercles

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Kirin>Preta Path​
First off, Kirin can't get absorbed by Preta Path because it is made out of natural lightning. Preta Path can only absorb attacks that contain chakra but natural lightning is pure lightning without any chakra.

Kirin>Deva Path​
In order to understand this section, you must know how the force of electricity and the force of gravity are calculated as well as how Sasuke launches Kirin and Nagato launches Shinra Tensei.

Force of Electricity
First off, the force of electricity is calculated through the formula: F = kq1q2/r^2. F is the force of electricity, k is the universal electrical force constant of 9.0X10^9, q1 is the amount of charges in coulombs of the first source, q2 is the amount of charge in coulombs of the second source and finally, r is the distance, in meters, between the two sources, q1 and q2. So in this scenario, r is the distance between Sasuke and the thundercloud, q1 is the amount of electrical charge in the thundercloud and q2 is the amount of electrical charge in Sasuke's own hand.

The lightning bolt contains 5 coulombs of electrical charge but keep in mind two things. It was said that Kakashi was able to cut lighting with his raikiri so we'll assume that a skilled lightning release user with an average amount of chakra can produce up to 5 coulombs of electrical charge in their hands or else Kakashi would have got overwhelmed by the amount of electrical charge in the lightning bolt. Bare in mind that kirin is much stronger than a regular lightning bolt because after lightning strikes, the thundercloud doesn't go away, but when Sasuke uses kirin, it does go away because he uses up most of the electrical charge in the thundercloud. On average, thunderclouds have an electrical charge of between but just to be on the safe side, we'll assume that the thundercloud that Sasuke creates to use kirin has 350 coulombs of charge. So q1, the amount of electrical charge in the thundercloud is 350 C. q2 is going to be 5 coulombs because we already determined that a skilled lightning release user can produce up to 5 coulombs of electricity in their hands.

Force of Gravity
Secondly, the force of gravity is calculated through the formula: F = GMm/r^2. F is the force of gravity, G is the universal gravitational force constant of 6.67X10^-11, M is the mass of the more massive object, m is the mass of the less massive object and r is the distance between the two masses, M and m. Notice how the universal gravitational force constant is much much weaker than the universal electrical force constant? The electrical force constant is 1.349X10^20 times greater than the gravitational force constant. In this case scenario, M is Nagato's mass in kg, m is the mass of the lightning bolt in kg and r is the distance between the lightning bolt and Nagato in meters.

Nagato was an extremely thin and frail man so his mass ought to be much lower compared to the average man which is . We'll assume Nagato weighs 50 kg which is a reasonable approximation of his mass IMO. The mass of the lightning bolt he will be repelling is going to be approximately the same as the thunder cloud because Sasuke will be using up most of the thundercloud to utilize Kirin. This mass is equal to 3.96893e9 kg.

The value of r is not important because the distance between Sasuke and the thundercloud or Nagato and the thundercloud will be roughly the same so we'll ignore the division of r^2 as doing so is redundant.

Force of Electricity = kq1q2 / r^2
= 9.0X10^9(350)(5) / r^2
=1.575X10^13 / r^2

Force of Gravity = GMm / r^2
= 6.67X10^-11(3.96893e9)(50) / r^2
= 13.236 / r^2

Now I'm well aware of the fact that Nagato's shinra tensei has much more force as shown in the manga than what I just calculated, but bare in mind that even still, in general, it is a well known fact that the force of gravity is negligible compared to the force of electricity. Also even in manga context, shinra tensei dispelling lightning doesn't make much sense either.
Kirin needs thunderstorms to accumulate so Sasuke can use the tech. So, Pain would have to ignore the chakra build up and Sasuke utilizing the storm clouds (which the Rinnegan can see chakra manipulation). Also, Nagato does have that tech that can blow clouds away...Shinra Tensei. *blows the clouds away, no Kirin*. Plus, he could activate a Shinra Tensei shield to block it.

By the way, science equations are negated when human beings, in an anime, are spouting flames out of their mouths and flying...
 

BenjerminGaye

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seeing as how kakashi cuts kirin with raikiri, i'm hesitant to believe you.
 

Invsblphntm

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Nice work and all, but I doubt Sasuke would use Kirin on Pein or Nagato. Depending on the version, an MS and Hebi wouldn't get the prep in time before they were defeated.

And an EMS wouldn't require it to win.

I don't see EMS Sasuke getting out of Chibaku Tensei. I mean, do you? You must if you think he could win.


No iteration of Sasuke can defeat Nagato, and none of them can get Kirin prepared. Remember Nagato was called God, Sasuke was called a low-life criminal. The difference is giant.
 

Punk Hazard

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Nagato shits on Kirin. A kid Kakashi was able to cut a lightening with his Chidori U_U

Kakashi didn't cut shit. Lighting hits the ground in the fraction of a second. Kakashi isn't taking out his Sharingan, creating Raikiri and moving fast enough to cut it.
 
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hixa kuogame

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Why can't nagato just shinra tensei away the heat and other requirements of kirin
 

Minator93

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Kakashi didn't cut shit. Lighting hits the ground in the fraction of a second. Kakashi isn't taking out his Sharingan, creating Raikiri and moving fast enough to cut it.

Lol Manga>>>you

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