his disease would hardly have a effect not too mention dont confuse the itachi fighting sasuke being near blind in this fight, this is a itachi that doesnt have such drastic symptoms of his disease, Even in his disease blind state agains sasuke he still managed to evade 2 katon attacks from sasuke with a leg injury nearly inches from him.
Itachi was taking pills simply to survive. He was physically unwell and not at his maximum. Of course him having a weakened body would make using a body decaying Jutsu like Susano'o extremely arduous. The fact that he wasn't suffering from such an illness (or other chakra/stamina related drawbacks) when he was reanimated means that, clearly, Susano'o could be used more freely. You ignoring this point reflects bias in your argument.
The flute genjutsu was situational because both were caught in to so it obviously common sense for both of them to use their sharigan on each other to get them out of it, if itachi were alone possibly he could had reverted the jutsu back on kabuto sort of how he re casted kurenais jutsu on her self back in part one.
Itachi being able to revert or reflect Kabuto's Sennin enhanced illusion is an assumption. The fact is, both brothers, despite being in a perilous situation, sought eachother's help (as opposed to taking the Genjutsu head on). This is how they dealt with it canonically. It's not as if the brothers could afford to fight in a leisurely fashion (considering that Kabuto was bearing down on them), so their use of teamwork is telling.
are you also forgetting sound genjutsu is not instant as it showns in the page and against ma and pa when they tried to put the pains in a sound genjutsu it took a few moments to have effect, in those moments itachi can easily form a crow clone or explosive clone to distract kabuto.
Gama Rinshō isn't Mugen Onsa. Kabuto was able to exercise Tayuya's powers as soon as her head appeared. The Nidaisengama needed to prepare the Frog chant. Kabuto didn't. And again. Bunshin feints or the like won't protect Itachi from sound waves.
that's a nice compilation but I think you're being very selective. It's true that Kakashi wasn't able to keep track of Itachi's handseals, that said he was able to keep track and counter Itachi's moves very well, forcing Itachi to pull out the mangekyou and use something which kakashi has no counter of.
a clone bunshin wouldnt harm kabuto much, he is very durable like orochimaru. likewise, stabbing, katon, amaterasu and genjutsu would not work. that leaves just the totsuka sword and izanami from itachi's arsenal.
now you said that he could perform a totsuka blitz with his speed. yes, itachi is very speedy. however, I haven't seen anyone run with susanoo yet, only madara's has been shown to have legs and use them. the point of susanoo is not to be a mobile warrior but as an absolute defense and offense. furthermore, the totsuka sword needs to pierce and seal, a lengthy process. just cutting would not seal. with kabuto's sage mode sensing it's probably impossible, the totsuka sword has sealed two stationary characters incapable of evasion.
as to izanami, it's a lengthy jutsu, and kabuto has variour tools to force itachi to use susanoo (muke tensei, kimimaro's techniques etc), and pull him out of it (that dragon light thing). his ability to get out of the snake's mouth has already blitzed itachi badly once and it can't be argued that he set that up intentionally.
btw the reason itachi beat white rage was probably because he was an edo tensei, as far as I know they do not feel pain.
i'm not saying itachi can't win, but he has a very poor chance of doing so, less than 20% for sure. and that's with edo tensei and without kabuto having any edos. also, izanami is the biggest asspull in the series, created solely to elevate itachi and defeat kabuto. izanagi required senju and uchiha dna yet its twin izanami does not. and how can izanami have been created to counter izanagi when the only two persons to possess senju dna were madara and obito?
that's a nice compilation but I think you're being very selective. It's true that Kakashi wasn't able to keep track of Itachi's handseals, that said he was able to keep track and counter Itachi's moves very well, forcing Itachi to pull out the mangekyou and use something which kakashi has no counter of.
a clone bunshin wouldnt harm kabuto much, he is very durable like orochimaru. likewise, stabbing, katon, amaterasu and genjutsu would not work. that leaves just the totsuka sword and izanami from itachi's arsenal.
now you said that he could perform a totsuka blitz with his speed. yes, itachi is very speedy. however, I haven't seen anyone run with susanoo yet, only madara's has been shown to have legs and use them. the point of susanoo is not to be a mobile warrior but as an absolute defense and offense. furthermore, the totsuka sword needs to pierce and seal, a lengthy process. just cutting would not seal. with kabuto's sage mode sensing it's probably impossible, the totsuka sword has sealed two stationary characters incapable of evasion.
as to izanami, it's a lengthy jutsu, and kabuto has variour tools to force itachi to use susanoo (muke tensei, kimimaro's techniques etc), and pull him out of it (that dragon light thing). his ability to get out of the snake's mouth has already blitzed itachi badly once and it can't be argued that he set that up intentionally.
btw the reason itachi beat white rage was probably because he was an edo tensei, as far as I know they do not feel pain.
i'm not saying itachi can't win, but he has a very poor chance of doing so, less than 20% for sure. and that's with edo tensei and without kabuto having any edos. also, izanami is the biggest asspull in the series, created solely to elevate itachi and defeat kabuto. izanagi required senju and uchiha dna yet its twin izanami does not. and how can izanami have been created to counter izanagi when the only two persons to possess senju dna were madara and obito?
Your kakashi was able to stand his ground somewhat good against Itachi.
But please do remember kakashi was already basically prepared with his water substitution clone and clearly see the real kakashi under water which means he had already prep time and thought this out.
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kakashi most likely performed that strategy in the whole mess right here
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You misunderstand my use of itachis explosive clone it would be mainly used as a way to his totsuka blade on kabuto due to the smoke i know kabuto would hardly get harm but he still feel pain, pain + the smoke covering itachi can equal a potentially shunshin blitz with totsuka
Itachi doesnt have to run with sussano.. he simply uses his body flicker to get behind kabuto and activates his sussano..
When kabuto blitz itachi out of his other snake body and ate his arm izanami was already basically in preparation so i dont see the need for itachi to had worried at that moment..
You say he beat white rage due to being a ET thats very controversial i can say his will power, notice they manged to still speak and move there head and arms, so i dont find it unlikely itachi wont be able to use jutsu caught in white rage
Bro.... Seriously.... There was no need to waste your time and energy on proving Itachi >>>> DSM Kabuto.... =D =D
DSM or normal.... Kabuto is fodder anyways compared to 4 Hokages,Itachi,Naruto,Nagato,Orochimaru,Jiraiya,
Madara and Obito.... =D =D
The entire fight was to emphasize sasuke and itachi's new teamwork and trust. They didn't both need to use amaterasu together, but they did because kishi wanted to show us the uchiha brothers in action together. Just because they broke out together, doesn't mean they couldn't individually. The same goes for Naruto, Bee, and itachi vs. Chibaku tensei. Itachi could have shot Magatamas like a machine gun due to his edo body, but instead he decided to teach naruto a little something and use teamwork rather than do it all himself.
OT, maybe they could, maybe they couldn't. There's no absolute proof on either side.
Them relying on eachother can't simply be put down to literary motives or concepts. That's like saying Sasuke could have maintained his Susano'o during Kabuto's Hakugeki but chose not to because 'Kishimoto intended to highlight their teamwork'. Their bonding was shown through their respective narratives and (odd) flashback (such as them against the boar). And no Itachi didn't resort to consecutive uses of Yasaka Magatama because he wasn't able to destroy Chibaku Tensei by himself. It showed he was dependent on both Naruto and Bee in that particular instant. Just as he was dependent on Sasuke during White Rage and vice versa.
Itachi was taking pills simply to survive. He was physically unwell and not at his maximum. Of course him having a weakened body would make using a body decaying Jutsu like Susano'o extremely arduous. The fact that he wasn't suffering from such an illness (or other chakra/stamina related drawbacks) when he was reanimated means that, clearly, Susano'o could be used more freely. You ignoring this point reflects bias in your argument.
Itachi being able to revert or reflect Kabuto's Sennin enhanced illusion is an assumption. The fact is, both brothers, despite being in a perilous situation, sought eachother's help (as opposed to taking the Genjutsu head on). This is how they dealt with it canonically. It's not as if the brothers could afford to fight in a leisurely fashion (considering that Kabuto was bearing down on them), so their use of teamwork is telling.
Gama Rinshō isn't Mugen Onsa. Kabuto was able to exercise Tayuya's powers as soon as her head appeared. The Nidaisengama needed to prepare the Frog chant. Kabuto didn't. And again. Bunshin feints or the like won't protect Itachi from sound waves.
Its 50/50 then there teamwork can also simply mean it was easier to dispel the genjutsu, itachi reverting the genjutsu back on kabuto is still a possibility.
Please remember that genjutsu stated by itachi himself doesnt work against clones while kabuto is dumbfounded by the fact that he got a clone in a genjutsu and not the real thing this can give itachi an opening.
Bias ? no. Your using a itachi as a example that fought sasuke, itachi was at his first during that fight so obviously we should use a itachi that isnt so liable to his disease one like the itachi that confronted naruto in the forest back in the early part of shippuden. Heck even in the sasuke fight itachi still used many techniques that required a high considerable amount of chakra.
Them relying on eachother can't simply be put down to literary motives or concepts. That's like saying Sasuke could have maintained his Susano'o during Kabuto's Hakugeki but chose not to because 'Kishimoto intended to highlight their teamwork'. Their bonding was shown through their respective narratives and (odd) flashback (such as them against the boar). And no Itachi didn't resort to consecutive uses of Yasaka Magatama because he wasn't able to destroy Chibaku Tensei by himself. It showed he was dependent on both Naruto and Bee in that particular instant. Just as he was dependent on Sasuke during White Rage and vice versa.
I wanted to do an analysis thread, but there was too much to write about Itachi part so I ended up never posting the thread (maybe I will post it one day...)
You seem to have a very good understanding about this fight. Most people overlook certain things you talk about. I think it's partly Kishi's fault. The entire fight sequence is kinda complicated and there's a lot of depth
I wanted to do an analysis thread, but there was too much to write about Itachi part so I ended up never posting the thread (maybe I will post it one day...)
You seem to have a very good understanding about this fight. Most people overlook certain things you talk about. I think it's partly Kishi's fault. The entire fight sequence is kinda complicated and there's a lot of depth
Its 50/50 then there teamwork can also simply mean it was easier to dispel the genjutsu, itachi reverting the genjutsu back on kabuto is still a possibility.
50/50 just doesn't cut it when you claim to be clearing up 'the biggest misconception on NB since 2012'. You're not helped by the fact that canon disagrees with you outright.
Please remember that genjutsu stated by itachi himself doesnt work against clones while kabuto is dumbfounded by the fact that he got a clone in a genjutsu and not the real thing this can give itachi an opening.
Listen. Resorting to Bunshin feints will not prevent the real Itachi from falling prey to the sound waves. He'll still be on the battlefield and he'll still be susceptible to hearing things. The doppelgangers can help bamboozle Kabuto but they won't offer him protection or actual resistance to the genjutsu, which is the point i'm raising.
Bias ? no. Your using a itachi as a example that fought sasuke, itachi was at his first during that fight so obviously we should use a itachi that isnt so liable to his disease one like the itachi that confronted naruto in the forest back in the early part of shippuden. Heck even in the sasuke fight itachi still used many techniques that required a high considerable amount of chakra.
No, i'm not even referencing the lad as he was against Sasuke. I'm simply talking about him as he existed in this manga. A guy who needed to take medication in order to fend off a degenerative disease. That is how he was. It coming to a head in his final moments does not hide the fact that for his adult life, Itachi was not 100% healthy in the physical sense. We're talking about a Jutsu which not only strains every cell in the body, but also degrades the Mangekyō Sharingan's light. Sasuke is superior to Itachi with regards to these two variables (physical well being & level of dōjutsu) and he fell prey to the technique. The only advantage Itachi held was possessing an Edo body.
Your kakashi was able to stand his ground somewhat good against Itachi.
But please do remember kakashi was already basically prepared with his water substitution clone and clearly see the real kakashi under water which means he had already prep time and thought this out.
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kakashi most likely performed that strategy in the whole mess right here
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You misunderstand my use of itachis explosive clone it would be mainly used as a way to his totsuka blade on kabuto due to the smoke i know kabuto would hardly get harm but he still feel pain, pain + the smoke covering itachi can equal a potentially shunshin blitz with totsuka
Itachi doesnt have to run with sussano.. he simply uses his body flicker to get behind kabuto and activates his sussano..
When kabuto blitz itachi out of his other snake body and ate his arm izanami was already basically in preparation so i dont see the need for itachi to had worried at that moment..
You say he beat white rage due to being a ET thats very controversial i can say his will power, notice they manged to still speak and move there head and arms, so i dont find it unlikely itachi wont be able to use jutsu caught in white rage
well, I can't really see it happening. smoke and minor pain wouldnt work on kabuto because his sensing and evasion and abilities are amongst the best inthe series, even assuming itachi could pull off such a fast combination.
as to white rage, I think I'm correct on that one, in chapter 580 it says the jutsu creates immense pain from overloading the senses, and edo tensei either don't feel pain or feel it to a lesser extent. itachi didn't not have susanoo active, but sasuke did and he was forced out of it. although its arguably I suppose given that Itachi also appeared to feel some effect from the technique, but personally its much more plausible to me that edo tensei mitigated the damage itachi received than that he had some sort of great willpower to save sasuke.
Good post. I always thought itachi > kabuto in that fight. Haters say "kabuto killed itachi so many times in that fight blah blah blah"....please, you people really think a super genius like itachi wasn't taking advantage of the fact that he was an Edo? Plus, itachi planned on trapping him in a genjutsu and deactivating the edo tensei jutsu WITHOUT killing Kabuto and he planned that and even announced that plan out loud to Kabuto himself before they started fighting.....guess what, Itachi calmly pulled it off, and kabuto was furious and now butthurt in an infinite loop. Boomsies
Correction. He "died" twice but he had to put himself in that position.
1. Itachi sacrificed himself for Sasuke.
2. He had to activate Izanami so he deactivated Susanoo and put himself in a vulnerable spot.
3. He never "died" after that the rest was just Izanami...
Both sides were at a disadvantage but Itachi and Sasuke had to be on the defensive in order prep Izanami.. Plus they couldn't kill him which makes it harder. Kabuto also had the advantage in location... With Kabuto's Sage mode it was going to be difficult to get him in genjutsu I mean just imagine that. Kabuto had more of the advantages. If they had really tried to defeat him they wouldve.
well, I can't really see it happening. smoke and minor pain wouldnt work on kabuto because his sensing and evasion and abilities are amongst the best inthe series, even assuming itachi could pull off such a fast combination.
as to white rage, I think I'm correct on that one, in chapter 580 it says the jutsu creates immense pain from overloading the senses, and edo tensei either don't feel pain or feel it to a lesser extent. itachi didn't not have susanoo active, but sasuke did and he was forced out of it. although its arguably I suppose given that Itachi also appeared to feel some effect from the technique, but personally its much more plausible to me that edo tensei mitigated the damage itachi received than that he had some sort of great willpower to save sasuke.
As for the "smoke and mirror" plan, itachi was able to use the same plan to cut kabuto's horn off, despite his senses. If it weren't for plot, itachi could have taken his head instead. The same circumstances would certainly work with the totsuka blade.
50/50 just doesn't cut it when you claim to be clearing up 'the biggest misconception on NB since 2012'. You're not helped by the fact that canon disagrees with you outright.
Listen. Resorting to Bunshin feints will not prevent the real Itachi from falling prey to the sound waves. He'll still be on the battlefield and he'll still be susceptible to hearing things. The doppelgangers can help bamboozle Kabuto but they won't offer him protection or actual resistance to the genjutsu, which is the point i'm raising.
No, i'm not even referencing the lad as he was against Sasuke. I'm simply talking about him as he existed in this manga. A guy who needed to take medication in order to fend off a degenerative disease. That is how he was. It coming to a head in his final moments does not hide the fact that for his adult life, Itachi was not 100% healthy in the physical sense. We're talking about a Jutsu which not only strains every cell in the body, but also degrades the Mangekyō Sharingan's light. Sasuke is superior to Itachi with regards to these two variables (physical well being & level of dōjutsu) and he fell prey to the technique. The only advantage Itachi held was possessing an Edo body.
50/50 just doesn't cut it when you claim to be clearing up 'the biggest misconception on NB since 2012'. You're not helped by the fact that canon disagrees with you outright.
Canon doesnt disagree with me, its canon that itachi has the ability to revert the genjutsu casted on him back at the user, claiming its not a possibility that he cant do the same against kabuto is blasphemy, necromancer also made a valid point about showing itachi and sasuke working together which may be a reason as to why itachi figured it be best that they both use there sharigan to escape the sound genjutsu
Listen. Resorting to Bunshin feints will not prevent the real Itachi from falling prey to the sound waves. He'll still be on the battlefield and he'll still be susceptible to hearing things. The doppelgangers can help bamboozle Kabuto but they won't offer him protection or actual resistance to the genjutsu, which is the point i'm raising.
I see your point but at the same time the feint clone and clearly give itachi a considerable amount of time to escape the radius of the sound genjutsu? its not canon but im sure theres a limit to which the sound genjutsu can travel it would idiotic to think there isnt.
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as shown with dealing with nagatos CT itachi always calmly analyzes his situation so it wouldnt surprise me if he managed to figure out a trick to the flute genjutsu not too mention theres always a chance to brake the flute it self.
No, i'm not even referencing the lad as he was against Sasuke. I'm simply talking about him as he existed in this manga. A guy who needed to take medication in order to fend off a degenerative disease. That is how he was. It coming to a head in his final moments does not hide the fact that for his adult life, Itachi was not 100% healthy in the physical sense. We're talking about a Jutsu which not only strains every cell in the body, but also degrades the Mangekyō Sharingan's light. Sasuke is superior to Itachi with regards to these two variables (physical well being & level of dōjutsu) and he fell prey to the technique. The only advantage Itachi held was possessing an Edo body.
We dont even know when he got the disease, sasuke having a ems a superior dojutsu to itachis MS doesnt hold weight, theres also something called experience.
Well i didn't want to get involve in the thread that much since i have something to do currently, but i'll just leave this U_U
Prince Charles, like Baka sennin said, you're really selective in your thread and forget completely important things that happened during that fight. You forget it was a 2vs1(being a 2vs1, he obviously has to pay even more attention to both opponents at the same time or almost), and that Sasuke greatly helped Itachi in important moments during that fight
I'll just try to give some examples, some things you didn't bother talk about. It's true that a Kabuto who was fighting with no knowledge on an asspull jutsu like Izanami was more in danger than he originally thought. Probably if he knew about izanami he would have fought differently, but whatever...
On the contrary, Itachi really had the chance to have Sasuke by his side who had great knowledge on Kabuto's capacities having been
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Sasuke's knowledge:
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It helped them to counter effectively sound four attacks
Combo-attacks
They were using combo-attacks
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For example, Itachi magatamas
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, when Sasuke arrows
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That gave him the opportunity to fool and
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As stated, it was a 2vs1 configuration. He is not fighting Itachi alone here. Sasuke is there too. It's for that reason that Itachi can have such liberty of movements to prepare his counter-attack(with clones or whatever you mentioned in your OP)
Sasuke's help
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He needed Sasuke to get out of the genjutsu
Sasuke also helped him here
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Sasuke who helped him again on the above panel
After helping him, Kabuto had to take care of Sasuke who was attacking him
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When Kabuto fights Sasuke, what do you think Itachi can do? Obviously, it could give him opportunities to prepare to capture the second image of his izanami and thus completing the loop
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Sasuke has sharingan, and notice that he was wondering if Itachi could still use Susanoo despite his edo-tensei body where his chakra never runs out
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And you think living Itachi could have kept up Susanoo that much if even in Edo tensei where his chakra never runs out his brother worries about it? Maybe he couldn't even have use Susanoo for 4minutes before running out in stamina. Edo Itachi had a lot of advantage that you failed to notice here
