Kisame Vs the 5 Kage (Individually)

[HungryMaelstrom]

You act as if Kisame wasn't kage level.

Already posted why I believe A, Onoki, Gaara, and Mei lose, and i'm not going to keep repeating myself. As for Tsunade...

Let me know what are Tsunades counter for Water Dome? What are her means of getting out? Katsuya accomplishes nothing because Kisamehada has sensory abilities and will know where Tsunade is. She drowns as well as gets her chakra drained.

You don't have to repeat your self being that your last post, really doesn't say much pertaining to what I said...and saying whats tsunades counter for water dome is like saying whats Kisames counter for Ranshinsho? Kisamehada Does not exist in Tsunade Vs Kisame because Tsunade doesn't have Biju Chakra

Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency
Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency
Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency
Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency
Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency

If the Foe doesn't have a cloak then he has to inflict wounds to gain chakra from his enemy...

And gaara need to touch the floor to get sand really?
I guess he touched the floor against diedara to save the sand village from c4

 

[EZQ]

Against oonoki and A he looses for sure, bad matchups really.

Gaara would be sick, kisame trying to drown him while Gaara tries to crush him, i give this a tie

He beats the ladys

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Those golems can tank Deidara's C1 only losing a few bits of rock:

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don't you think that thing is sturdy enough to deliver a strong punch? Even if its chakra is stealed, its made of rock and is going to hit. I'm aware that Kisame is a physically strong individual, i'm not saying he'll lose because of it but will surely be delayed.
@bold: obviously atomizing the water -_-

Gaara's sand has no problems in water, period. That's all i was trying to say. Gaara can use sand to do the same as the golem and desert suspension out of WD, start making more sand and attack with full power.

We both made our points i don't think more debate is needed.

Do you think that thing can catch Kisame in water? Much less, even swim?
Jinton only atomizes wha'ts inside of it, take a look of it's size then take a look at the size of water dome which is comparable to entire mountain.

Lol I love how all your arguments revolve around them getting caught in water dome when I, myself, not even counting on that happening. They both can fly, and will most likely evade the water dome. But since you so strongly think that they will, fine. In the water dome Gaara isn't getting out because Kisamehada is much faster then him, even with his sand pushing him out. His chakra is constantly getting drained in there which will make it harder for him to control his wet and heavier then usual sand. Not to mention, Kisame can just use some sharks to constantly attack him as well. If you're going to say Kisame has never shown to use jutsu in water dome, that is because he was fighting Bee and was aiming to capture him by chakra drainage not kill him.

You don't have to repeat your self being that your last post, really doesn't say much pertaining to what I said...and saying whats tsunades counter for water dome is like saying whats Kisames counter for Ranshinsho? Kisamehada Does not exist in Tsunade Vs Kisame because Tsunade doesn't have Biju Chakra

Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency
Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency
Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency
Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency
Kisame gets stronger base on the oponents chakra potency

If the Foe doesn't have a cloak then he has to inflict wounds to gain chakra from his enemy...

And gaara need to touch the floor to get sand really?
I guess he touched the floor against diedara to save the sand village from c4

Hmm, let's see. Water Dome is an almost unavoidable mid-long range jutsu while Body Pathway Derangement is short range and requires direct contact. Which one is more likely to succeed against one another? I'll let you decide. I guess you're forgetting it's an innate ability for Kisame to absorb chakra when it comes in contact with him, so actually he does.

Kisamehada doesn't exist unless Bijuu level chakra is absorbed first? Got proof of this?

Tsunade doesn't have Biju level chakra? Maybe not, but she possesses enough to heal a large amount of people in the village during the pain invasion.

If the Foe doesn't have a cloak then he has to inflict wounds to gain chakra from his enemy huh?

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Odd, I don't recall ever saying that. What I do recall saying, is in order for Gaara to make sand he needs to come in contact with the ground to grind the minerals using his chakra. He didn't need to in the fight with Deidara because there was already sand provided.

So much fail in one post.

 

[genii96]

Dude, base Bee is stronger than V2 Ay.(not i said stronger - though i doubt he's even much faster).

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Even tsunade is stronger than the guy. you really think kisame would take a lariat from bee and survive, but die from one off ay? His chakra gets sucked by being next to samehade. Both samehade and kisame suck chakra. Like i've said, bee is roughly the same speed as ay. That's why they make a good double lariat team. Else bee would always be falling behind when ay blitzes. V1/V2 Bee isn't slow at all. If anything, he could possibly be faster than Ay. He's definitely faster than V1 ay.

Just accept the fact that gaara can't use the sand under the water -.-... What the hell would he do? Create waves? A sand tsunami under water would just create a large wave. He'd give kisame air to be able to attack him if anything. Stop overrating gaara. Weight obviously affects his use of sand, else oonoki wouldn't have to decrease the weight of his gourd sand so he'd be able to use it more effectively on madara. I can't believe you're trying to argue that gaara can possibly combat kisame's water with sand. :| Gaara has literally never shown the feat to create that much sand. Water dome atleast is able to trap large summons very easily. Gaara has never created large sand attacks on that scale. Kisame would flood the entire sand village if given the oppotunity. And then kisame uses a GSB to destroy that sand attack. The force of his GSB would through that back, suck up any chakra used to manipulate it (it isn't magic sand), grow and then black gaara.

As in flying doesn't help him win. He's just avoiding the inevitable. It doesn't matter how long he can when his opponent drains chakra. Any chakra infused in sand gets drained and fed to kisame. If kisame ever touches him the match is over. Gaara is limited to what he can do with his gourd. He does sand hail and kisame dives. Sand hail is used to trap people for desert coffin. That makes no sense when the guy has water under his feat. So kisame can't create water clones also?

GSB. Great shock wave. Water prison(gaara instantly loses if this catches him because you can't break out of it from the inside). 1000 Shark missiles (trumps every sand clone instantly). These all defeat anything in gaara's arsenal.
Gaara starts off with sand tsunami? Great shock wave. Boom. The large water wave pushes his sand back, cover it, then floods the entire area for a few meters in the air; kisame then fuses with samehade, and voila. Anything with chakra (aka all gaara's sand attacks) get reduced right back to ordinary, unmanipulated sand.

yes,bee is physically stronger,however,the raiton armour gives A more penetrative force,a lariat from bee,also didnt kill sasuke,bcos it is a surface attack,and blew off the frontal side of his chest,a punch from A,wold not cause such damage,rather it will pierce a fixed point and go right through,just like it did juugo,who was in cs2 and has more durability than base sasuke. A punch from A,would pierce kisame right through,rather than cause surface damage, lik a bee lariat. Bee is not the same speed as A at all,A dodged a point blank amaterasu,against minato,his speed was such that as he took off,his hand was at minato's face the next instance,being near the sword dosent take your chakra,touching it does,and kisame would still take the damage,which is either a hole in his chest,or a hole in his head which kills him either way.

You yourself should accept the fact that water does not affect gaara's sand in nyway,nor has it ever been stated to affect his sand control,you just assume so,gold dust is 20x heavier than water,yet how easily did gaara control it?,yet water will somehow affect it?you said the pressure of the water would stop him,i proved it wrong saying that gaara can send a person 200m when he was 13,the pressure said to crush steel. If the weight of gold didnt hamper his sand,THEN HOW THE HEELL IS WATER WHICH IS 20X LIGHTER THAN GOLD DO ANYTHING???.:flaw:.

Whether kisame hides in his water,or outside,it's the same,gaara attavks him either way,how can you still say the weight of water affects his sand control when gold cudnt?:|.

The only sand with chakra,is his gourd sand,the normal one,has no chakra in it,which means kisame is absorbing nothing from the sand attacks.,flight renders kisame's attacks useless,while attacking him as well.sand absorbs water,whih gives gaara the advantage,he could just pollute the water with sand,while creating more sand.

@ forbidden technique,what post are you reffering to exactly?,and gaara needing to touch the ground to make sand?,seriously?where did it ever say that he needed to stay on the ground to make sand?,

 

[AGoodBoy]

yes,bee is physically stronger,however,the raiton armour gives A more penetrative force,a lariat from bee,also didnt kill sasuke,bcos it is a surface attack,and blew off the frontal side of his chest,a punch from A,wold not cause such damage,rather it will pierce a fixed point and go right through,just like it did juugo,who was in cs2 and has more durability than base sasuke. A punch from A,would pierce kisame right through,rather than cause surface damage, lik a bee lariat. Bee is not the same speed as A at all,A dodged a point blank amaterasu,against minato,his speed was such that as he took off,his hand was at minato's face the next instance,being near the sword dosent take your chakra,touching it does,and kisame would still take the damage,which is either a hole in his chest,or a hole in his head which kills him either way.

You yourself should accept the fact that water does not affect gaara's sand in nyway,nor has it ever been stated to affect his sand control,you just assume so,gold dust is 20x heavier than water,yet how easily did gaara control it?,yet water will somehow affect it?you said the pressure of the water would stop him,i proved it wrong saying that gaara can send a person 200m when he was 13,the pressure said to crush steel. If the weight of gold didnt hamper his sand,THEN HOW THE HEELL IS WATER WHICH IS 20X LIGHTER THAN GOLD DO ANYTHING???.:flaw:.

Whether kisame hides in his water,or outside,it's the same,gaara attavks him either way,how can you still say the weight of water affects his sand control when gold cudnt?:|.

The only sand with chakra,is his gourd sand,the normal one,has no chakra in it,which means kisame is absorbing nothing from the sand attacks.,flight renders kisame's attacks useless,while attacking him as well.sand absorbs water,whih gives gaara the advantage,he could just pollute the water with sand,while creating more sand.

@ forbidden technique,what post are you reffering to exactly?,and gaara needing to touch the ground to make sand?,seriously?where did it ever say that he needed to stay on the ground to make sand?,

I'm not even going to continue arguing about Ay because it's pointless. I've already said that Ay gets bumped from V2 right down to base. Just touching kisame means your chakra gets absorbed. Ay loses worse than bee.

As for gaara. I can't believe you're still saying gaara is going to pull up a mass of sand under a lake. what, if they're not in the desert he'd go grind himself some sand under the lake? By your logic, gaara should fight out in the ocean, because there he'd have the biggest field advantage.
Gaara never controlled gold dust at the level of a sand tsunami. Stop bringing up that stupid arguement. It was like half a gourds worth of gold at best. So, because he can manuever a gourd of gold, he can maneuver an entire tsunami worth? That's like saying, because he can lift a rock, he can life a mountain. Too bad sending someone underground with sand manipulation in no way correlates to lifting up sand from under the ocean. All gaara had to do was manipulate the sand he'd already created to make kimmimaro sink through it. How the hell is that hard? How does that have anything to do with raising something against the resistance of water?

It doesn't matter if the water stops his sand. I'm talking about his god damn large scale attacks FFS. Who cares about gourd sand. Kisame can block that with water jutsu, because you know, the exploding water jutsu will force the sand to be bounced away from it's inntended target. Because gaara was able to pass sand through a water dragon, which in no way was meant to resist it, he can pass sand through an explosion effortlessly? All sand has chakra in it. He manipulates sand with chakra. If there were no chakra, how did the sand move? Magnitism? Magic? His gourd sand is infused with sand, sure. But if he's using environmental sand, he has to use chakra to manipulate it. So what, gaara ran low on chakra after using desert tsunami on kimimaro because he just felt like it? No, he had to use a ton of chakra to even move the sand. For that matter, using all those large scale attack + hovering on sand + sand armor will take it's toll on gaara. He'd be drained within the hour.

Water shock wave blocks sand tsunamis.
diving + 1000 sharks (because apparently, in your world, gaara's aerial sand attacks will not be hampered in any way by sand. he'd use sand coffin/trap a guy in sand under water) Blocks any sand attacks which come under water after kisame.
Any gourd sand gaara uses gets chakra absorbed

To grind sand he has to use gourd sand. Have fun running on half gourd sand against kisame.

 

[genii96]

I'm not even going to continue arguing about Ay because it's pointless. I've already said that Ay gets bumped from V2 right down to base. Just touching kisame means your chakra gets absorbed. Ay loses worse than bee.

As for gaara. I can't believe you're still saying gaara is going to pull up a mass of sand under a lake. what, if they're not in the desert he'd go grind himself some sand under the lake? By your logic, gaara should fight out in the ocean, because there he'd have the biggest field advantage.
Gaara never controlled gold dust at the level of a sand tsunami. Stop bringing up that stupid arguement. It was like half a gourds worth of gold at best. So, because he can manuever a gourd of gold, he can maneuver an entire tsunami worth? That's like saying, because he can lift a rock, he can life a mountain. Too bad sending someone underground with sand manipulation in no way correlates to lifting up sand from under the ocean. All gaara had to do was manipulate the sand he'd already created to make kimmimaro sink through it. How the hell is that hard? How does that have anything to do with raising something against the resistance of water?

It doesn't matter if the water stops his sand. I'm talking about his god damn large scale attacks FFS. Who cares about gourd sand. Kisame can block that with water jutsu, because you know, the exploding water jutsu will force the sand to be bounced away from it's inntended target. Because gaara was able to pass sand through a water dragon, which in no way was meant to resist it, he can pass sand through an explosion effortlessly? All sand has chakra in it. He manipulates sand with chakra. If there were no chakra, how did the sand move? Magnitism? Magic? His gourd sand is infused with sand, sure. But if he's using environmental sand, he has to use chakra to manipulate it. So what, gaara ran low on chakra after using desert tsunami on kimimaro because he just felt like it? No, he had to use a ton of chakra to even move the sand. For that matter, using all those large scale attack hovering on sand sand armor will take it's toll on gaara. He'd be drained within the hour.

Water shock wave blocks sand tsunamis.
diving 1000 sharks (because apparently, in your world, gaara's aerial sand attacks will not be hampered in any way by sand. he'd use sand coffin/trap a guy in sand under water) Blocks any sand attacks which come under water after kisame.
Any gourd sand gaara uses gets chakra absorbed

To grind sand he has to use gourd sand. Have fun running on half gourd sand against kisame.

for kisame to actually react to A,he needs to have a reaction roughly the same as minato,who barely did,let alon acrually hit him with a sword,even if kisame somehow actually absorbs it,he still takes the damage,as seen with bee. Wither way he gets killed,cant beleive you are saying kisame would react to a guy faster than amaterasu.

Last time i checked,kisame cant make an ocean,and last time i checked,the distance at which minerals are formed are much hgher than those of kisame's lake,gaara brings his sand,from beneath the earth's surface,so he can easily pull it up,how is that hard to undertsand?,so just because kisame makes a lake,that isnt even that high up,rather it covers a large area,gaara cant make sand?seriously?.

Did you forget the part where his dad stopped his sand tsunami with a gold dust?,do you know they mixed together?,and did gaara have any problems at all?,and even that gourd sand he used,gold dust is TWENTY Times heavier than water,cant you uunderstand that?,he controlled his sand after his dad mixed it wih gold dust and faced him,he controlled it to stop joki boy,the weight of water is nothng compared to that.

Gaara's sand wasnt fazed by a c3 explosion,nor by joki's explosion,and protected him from the explosion and impact of 2 meteors,so some shockwave created by water isnt gonna do much.

Gaara sent kimimaro 200m underground,did his sand tsunami cover that distabce vertucally upwards?,cuz if you agree it did,then kisame's lake gets soaked to nothing by the sand tsunami of a current gaara. Resistance of water is nothing compared to the resistance of bringing sand from the earth's crust where minerals are formed,and is nothing compared to raising sand above the resistance of gold dust. Water does not in any way affect gaara's sand control.

His gourd sand posseses chakra,normal does not,yes,it takes chakra to mobe it around,but there is no chakra insisde the sand,which means there is nothing there for kisame to absorb,there is a reason his gourd sand is called chakra infused sand. Gaara has been using his sand armour,high level sand techs for 2 days and didnt break down,yet somehow he breaks down in an hour,right. Normal sand attacks render absorbtion useless,flight renders his attacks near useless,kisame's lake eventually turns to mud due to eing mixed with sand. Sand hail attacks him whether he is hiding or not.

 

[HungryMaelstrom]

Hmm, let's see. Water Dome is an almost unavoidable mid-long range jutsu while Body Pathway Derangement is short range and requires direct contact. Which one is more likely to succeed against one another? I'll let you decide. I guess you're forgetting it's an innate ability for Kisame to absorb chakra when it comes in contact with him, so actually he does.

Kisamehada doesn't exist unless Bijuu level chakra is absorbed first? Got proof of this?

Tsunade doesn't have Biju level chakra? Maybe not, but she possesses enough to heal a large amount of people in the village during the pain invasion.

If the Foe doesn't have a cloak then he has to inflict wounds to gain chakra from his enemy huh?

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Odd, I don't recall ever saying that. What I do recall saying, is in order for Gaara to make sand he needs to come in contact with the ground to grind the minerals using his chakra. He didn't need to in the fight with Deidara because there was already sand provided.

So much fail in one post.

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From this page on progressively you see the sameheda changing drastically... If you look the sword repairs his body and pumps him with chakra and progressively changes his form before he completely transforms into that grotesque fish/human thing...

Now that picture that you linked was definitely a weird play on words LoL....I like that...You post a picture in which the user pours his own chakra into kisame in hopes of stopping his movements as proof that kisame doesn't need to inflict a flesh wound on Tsunade to absorb her chakra.... What? OK you win that one... LMAO

Tsunade has immense chakra "control" how much chakra reserve she has can be debated however summoning Katsuya Is what healed the village If I remember correctly.. Either way HOW is kisame gonna consume all of Her chakra In the first place....
..Suirō Sameodori no Jutsu might not even be applicable and Suiro no Jutsu is short range ---If you wan't to be Super literal...

I don't prefer saying things like "How will A counter B" --- I rather think about how A would be landed in the first place and match the effort required to maintain and land the technique... Body pathway derangement Is just an option that counters Kisame and can contribute to beating him...However I wouldn't say ..."All she has to Do is Ronshinsho, and game over" that doesn't say anything... Tsunade is fast after byakuguo release Btw, we seen that in her fight Vs Madara... She can blitz him and Land a Ronshinsho to obstruct his chakra pathway from the sameheda... Or just end the battle with a heavenly kick of pain...Those are high posibilities... Why can't you consider them?

OK, regarding gaara saying that gaara needs to Make contact with the floor in order to synthesize sand is a useless arguement for if both him and kismae is starting from a neutral position.. the synthesis of sand is already Done... Like I said Its not proven that Kisame can do Suiro sameodori no Jutsu from neutral so flying in a half of a second into battle Puts Gaara at a really good position From the get... from there they're plenty of opening for Gaara, kisame would be in a really adverse position.

So, Yeah....I did fail hard in my post....

 

[RicardoA]

Do you think that thing can catch Kisame in water? Much less, even swim?
Jinton only atomizes wha'ts inside of it, take a look of it's size then take a look at the size of water dome which is comparable to entire mountain.

Lol I love how all your arguments revolve around them getting caught in water dome when I, myself, not even counting on that happening. They both can fly, and will most likely evade the water dome. But since you so strongly think that they will, fine. In the water dome Gaara isn't getting out because Kisamehada is much faster then him, even with his sand pushing him out. His chakra is constantly getting drained in there which will make it harder for him to control his wet and heavier then usual sand. Not to mention, Kisame can just use some sharks to constantly attack him as well. If you're going to say Kisame has never shown to use jutsu in water dome, that is because he was fighting Bee and was aiming to capture him by chakra drainage not kill him.

Even if it doesn't catch him it'll reduce a lot of WD to atomic particles, effectively finishing WD.
@1stBold: that's because WD is troublesome and i want to clear out how they can counter it U_U.
@2ndBold: thank you for the absence of flame =D i know you really like Kisame and i appreciate the fact that you know how to properly debate when someone disagrees.

In fact he beats Tsunade mid-diff, now its right.

 

[Icelerate]

Onoki VS Kisame could go either way depending on whether Kisame can counter jinton by using great water shark bullet. If he can't, that would mean Onoki's jinton would atomize any attack Kisame throws at him in which case, he'd lose mid difficulty.

If Kisame can counter jinton as easily as absorbing it via water shark bullet, this is a relatively easy win for him.

A VS Kisame can go either way. Kisame has shown us nice regenerating abilities so he could tank a hit from A and then create a water dome where he could simply swim inside. A can't do much inside water and his raiton armour will get absorbed as it is made out of chakra. Kisame would proceed to destroy him. I say Kisame wins mid-high difficulty.

Kisame should also be able to beat Gaara with the same amount of difficulty IMO. His suiton will definitely over power Gaara's sand. Gaara doesn't have the feats in blocking such large scale water attacks.

Kisame can solo both Mei and Tsunade with high difficulty.

 

[Professor Finesser]

Maybe except oonoki cuz his dust release is pretty crazy but I can see Kisame taking A's lightning release armor with Samehada

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Been busy all week and finally got some time for myself to reply, sorry about that.

@ forbidden technique,what post are you reffering to exactly?,and gaara needing to touch the ground to make sand?,seriously?where did it ever say that he needed to stay on the ground to make sand?,

Well forget about it now..

Yes, Gaara needs to be on the ground in order to use his chakra to grind the minerals into sand. Gaara, himself, says

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that, from underground he collects the minerals with chakra. How else is he going to feed the ground with chakra other then being on the ground? The same applies with his sand burial. When was the last time we seen Gaara perform his sand burial? Against Kimimaro when he was on the ground. Why haven't we seen Gaara perform sand burial since then? Because he is always airborne. Just like sand burial requires him to feed chakra in the ground

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to send his opponents deep into the ground, the same applies for creating sand deep into the ground. When have we ever seen Doton users use a technique involving the ground without touching it somehow? Never.

If you disagree, at least post why with manga evidence that implies that he doesn't.

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From this page on progressively you see the sameheda changing drastically... If you look the sword repairs his body and pumps him with chakra and progressively changes his form before he completely transforms into that grotesque fish/human thing...

Now that picture that you linked was definitely a weird play on words LoL....I like that...You post a picture in which the user pours his own chakra into kisame in hopes of stopping his movements as proof that kisame doesn't need to inflict a flesh wound on Tsunade to absorb her chakra.... What? OK you win that one... LMAO

Tsunade has immense chakra "control" how much chakra reserve she has can be debated however summoning Katsuya Is what healed the village If I remember correctly.. Either way HOW is kisame gonna consume all of Her chakra In the first place....
..Suirō Sameodori no Jutsu might not even be applicable and Suiro no Jutsu is short range ---If you wan't to be Super literal...

I don't prefer saying things like "How will A counter B" --- I rather think about how A would be landed in the first place and match the effort required to maintain and land the technique... Body pathway derangement Is just an option that counters Kisame and can contribute to beating him...However I wouldn't say ..."All she has to Do is Ronshinsho, and game over" that doesn't say anything... Tsunade is fast after byakuguo release Btw, we seen that in her fight Vs Madara... She can blitz him and Land a Ronshinsho to obstruct his chakra pathway from the sameheda... Or just end the battle with a heavenly kick of pain...Those are high posibilities... Why can't you consider them?

OK, regarding gaara saying that gaara needs to Make contact with the floor in order to synthesize sand is a useless arguement for if both him and kismae is starting from a neutral position.. the synthesis of sand is already Done... Like I said Its not proven that Kisame can do Suiro sameodori no Jutsu from neutral so flying in a half of a second into battle Puts Gaara at a really good position From the get... from there they're plenty of opening for Gaara, kisame would be in a really adverse position.

So, Yeah....I did fail hard in my post....

That is not proof that Samehada has to absorb biju level chakra in order to fuse with Kisame, neither does that even come close to implying that it does. We have only seen Kisame in 3 real fights, 2 with Gai, and 1 with Bee. One fight with Gai was a perfect clone that only possessed around 30% of his chakra while the other was fought without Samehada. The one and only time we seen Kisame fighting at his highest potential was against Bee, and even then it wasn't a full fight because of Zetsu coming in. You saying that Kisamehada doesn't exist without biju level chakra absorbed holds no merit, as you have absolutely no proof of this. Samehada is a sword that gradually gets bigger as more chakra is absorbed, and yes, makes Kisame stronger, but no where in the manga did it say, it gains abilities as it absorbs chakra.

Okay, I honestly don't even know where your getting this from. Where in the manga did it say or showcase Kisame having to inflict a flesh wound on the opponent to absorb chakra? Please enlighten me. Lmao...regardless, he drained his chakra. He said "that's just perfect for me" because he has the ability to absorb chakra. Going off what you said, the jutsu is completely useless because anybody would be able to do the same. If that was the case, what would be the purpose of that jutsu?

You don't prefer it, because you have no counter for it. I won't consider them simply because that wouldn't happen. Water Dome takes 1 hand seal and the entire area is engulfed in water. The thought of her blitzing him for 40 meters is ridiculous. Tsunade doesn't stand the slightest chance because all her techniques require CQC, while Kisame possesses large scale techniques that doesn't allow her to get remotely close to him. I'm not a Tsunade hater, this is just a terrible match up for her.

But why does Kisame have to use Water Dome, my past arguments regarding Gaara doesn't even involve WD because it's not very likely for him to get caught. One clap of his hands and Kisame dispels an entire 10 stories deep lake out of his mouth that requires less then 30% of his original chakra. In this given standpoint, the amount of water kisame uses easily overbears the amount of sand Gaara uses.

Even if it doesn't catch him it'll reduce a lot of WD to atomic particles, effectively finishing WD.
@1stBold: that's because WD is troublesome and i want to clear out how they can counter it U_U.
@2ndBold: thank you for the absence of flame =D i know you really like Kisame and i appreciate the fact that you know how to properly debate when someone disagrees.

In fact he beats Tsunade mid-diff, now its right.

How? The diameter of that jinton wouldn't even atomize 20% of the water in the dome. I'll say it again, the WD absorbs chakra, meaning it would be a significantly weaker jinton then that anyways. Unless you possess a haxx technique like kamui, no one shinobi is getting out of the water dome if they were to be caught.

You didn't really need to thank me, lol. I treat debaters as they treat me, come at respectfully, and i'll return the same.

Onoki VS Kisame could go either way depending on whether Kisame can counter jinton by using great water shark bullet. If he can't, that would mean Onoki's jinton would atomize any attack Kisame throws at him in which case, he'd lose mid difficulty.

If Kisame can counter jinton as easily as absorbing it via water shark bullet, this is a relatively easy win for him.

A VS Kisame can go either way. Kisame has shown us nice regenerating abilities so he could tank a hit from A and then create a water dome where he could simply swim inside. A can't do much inside water and his raiton armour will get absorbed as it is made out of chakra. Kisame would proceed to destroy him. I say Kisame wins mid-high difficulty.

Kisame should also be able to beat Gaara with the same amount of difficulty IMO. His suiton will definitely over power Gaara's sand. Gaara doesn't have the feats in blocking such large scale water attacks.

Kisame can solo both Mei and Tsunade with high difficulty.

EXACTLY, really couldn't agree more then this right here. As far as you questioning whether GSB can absorb jinton, why wouldn't it? It's ninjutsu and possesses chakra. Given what Kisame says

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, GSB > any ninjutsu. Don't blame me, blame Kishi.

 

[genii96]

Been busy all week and finally got some time for myself to reply, sorry about that.



Well forget about it now..

Yes, Gaara needs to be on the ground in order to use his chakra to grind the minerals into sand. Gaara, himself, says

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that, from underground he collects the minerals with chakra. How else is he going to feed the ground with chakra other then being on the ground? The same applies with his sand burial. When was the last time we seen Gaara perform his sand burial? Against Kimimaro when he was on the ground. Why haven't we seen Gaara perform sand burial since then? Because he is always airborne. Just like sand burial requires him to feed chakra in the ground

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to send his opponents deep into the ground, the same applies for creating sand deep into the ground. When have we ever seen Doton users use a technique involving the ground without touching it somehow? Never.

If you disagree, at least post why with manga evidence that implies that he doesn't.



EXACTLY, really couldn't agree more then this right here. As far as you questioning whether GSB can absorb jinton, why wouldn't it? It's ninjutsu and possesses chakra. Given what Kisame says

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, GSB > any ninjutsu. Don't blame me, blame Kishi.

1) lets see gaara's fights first.
A) His fight with kimi,where he showcased the giant sand burial,sand tsunami and making sand for the first time

B) his fight with deidara,who is an ariel oponent,did you forget his sand bural on deidara?,how else did he loose his arm?.

C) his fight with edo kages,sand burial wont be useful,which is why he did his sand pyramid to seal them.

Now,in that scan of yours,look at his words well,"from underground i collect the strongest minerals,with chakra,i pressure them into dense sand around me",he ddnt say he collected them with chakra,he collects them by himself,by flowing chakra through them,he can make them very dense,which was the case with his shield of shukaku. He first collected the sand,then used chakra to increse it's density,now the reason he used chakra,was because he needed to make his SOS as hard as possible,to counter the bone spear. He dosent need to use his chakra to collect them,he just adds his chakra to make them stronger if he wants. Not that he needs to flow chakra through it,

lets take a look at this,

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lets see it's properties
"This air defence technique creates a giant shield of sand that is suspended in mid-air by raising a great amount of sand from the ground. By gathering the best possible mineral-rich sand, the hardness of the shield is considered to be very high. Furthermore, the sand has its defensive strength raised by flowing chakra through it." note the bolded parts,there is no way,that the best mineral rich sand is on the surface of suna,and there is no way he flowed chakra through that shield,if he needed to stay on it to do say,yet he did both on the air. He dosent need to stay on the ground to find minerals,nor does he need to touch his sand to flow chakra through it,Gaara is NOT a doton user,he gets his sand powers from shukaku,and is classified as a fuuton user,so he dosent need to flow chakra through the earth by standing on it.

Also,if you have noticedthe only time gaara has needed to flow chakra through some sand aside from his gourd,is for a powerful defenceive jutsu,shield of shukaku in part 1,his sky shield in part 2 in order to block this in an instant

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,flowing chakra through them makes them the same as his gourd sand in seed and strength,since his gourd sand is sand chakra,except the fact that they are bigger. Sand burial was shown against deidara crushing his arm,and he wanted deidara alive,sand burial was replaced by sand pyramid because of the edo tensei.

If gaara needed to flow his chakra through the gound like a doton user,he would need to touch it,yet against kimi, when he made his sand tsunami,and before that,he never touched the ground. Neither did he touch the shield of shukaku after he had made it to flow chakra through in that your scan,so he dosent need to be on the ground to flow his chakra through the sand or ground. He said it himself,making more sand takes no effort at all.


Also against A,kisame dosent have the reflexes to counter his shushin,and he needs to make physical contact,to aborb his shroud,if A punches a hole through his chest,crushing his heart,or through his head,he isnt healing.

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

He beats the girls.

 

[Shura]

Kisame wins all except maybe Oonoki.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

1) lets see gaara's fights first.
A) His fight with kimi,where he showcased the giant sand burial,sand tsunami and making sand for the first time

B) his fight with deidara,who is an ariel oponent,did you forget his sand bural on deidara?,how else did he loose his arm?.

C) his fight with edo kages,sand burial wont be useful,which is why he did his sand pyramid to seal them.

Now,in that scan of yours,look at his words well,"from underground i collect the strongest minerals,with chakra,i pressure them into dense sand around me",he ddnt say he collected them with chakra,he collects them by himself,by flowing chakra through them,he can make them very dense,which was the case with his shield of shukaku. He first collected the sand,then used chakra to increse it's density,now the reason he used chakra,was because he needed to make his SOS as hard as possible,to counter the bone spear. He dosent need to use his chakra to collect them,he just adds his chakra to make them stronger if he wants. Not that he needs to flow chakra through it,

lets take a look at this,

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lets see it's properties
"This air defence technique creates a giant shield of sand that is suspended in mid-air by raising a great amount of sand from the ground. By gathering the best possible mineral-rich sand, the hardness of the shield is considered to be very high. Furthermore, the sand has its defensive strength raised by flowing chakra through it." note the bolded parts,there is no way,that the best mineral rich sand is on the surface of suna,and there is no way he flowed chakra through that shield,if he needed to stay on it to do say,yet he did both on the air. He dosent need to stay on the ground to find minerals,nor does he need to touch his sand to flow chakra through it,Gaara is NOT a doton user,he gets his sand powers from shukaku,and is classified as a fuuton user,so he dosent need to flow chakra through the earth by standing on it.

Also,if you have noticedthe only time gaara has needed to flow chakra through some sand aside from his gourd,is for a powerful defenceive jutsu,shield of shukaku in part 1,his sky shield in part 2 in order to block this in an instant

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,flowing chakra through them makes them the same as his gourd sand in seed and strength,since his gourd sand is sand chakra,except the fact that they are bigger. Sand burial was shown against deidara crushing his arm,and he wanted deidara alive,sand burial was replaced by sand pyramid because of the edo tensei.

If gaara needed to flow his chakra through the gound like a doton user,he would need to touch it,yet against kimi, when he made his sand tsunami,and before that,he never touched the ground. Neither did he touch the shield of shukaku after he had made it to flow chakra through in that your scan,so he dosent need to be on the ground to flow his chakra through the sand or ground. He said it himself,making more sand takes no effort at all.


Also against A,kisame dosent have the reflexes to counter his shushin,and he needs to make physical contact,to aborb his shroud,if A punches a hole through his chest,crushing his heart,or through his head,he isnt healing.

First, I'd like to point out that Gaara used

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to rip of Deidaras arm, not sand burial.

Come on dude...you're punctuating it wrong to fit what you want it to say. If you look closely, it actually says "From underground I collect the strongest minerals ... with chakra, I pressurize them into dense sand around me" The dot dot dot connects the two and finishes the thought. You placed the comma to separate them, which isn't correct. So yes, he did in fact say, he collects them with chakra, which pretty much invalidates everything you just said. If you really think about it, it makes absolutely no sense to say he collects it himself, because that would mean he has to physically collect every individual mineral with his bare hands. It obviously involves chakra, otherwise it would be an impossible task.

The 4th Kazekage, who had no given supply of gold dust has to touch the ground and fuse his chakra in it, to create and use his gold dust. The same applies for Gaara.

Spoiler

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By touching the ground, I don't necessarily mean with his hands. Chakra can be dispelled from the feet (i.g walking on water) So when I say touching the ground, I mean being in contact with it in some sort of way.

As far as Ay goes, Kisame doesn't need the reflexes to counter him. As long as chakra is visible, soon as he gets near Kisame his chakra is already being drained

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-

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Now when Ay makes direct physical contact with Kisame, a mere punch, the majority of his chakra is eaten

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-

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As you can see, Kisame didn't have the time to react to Bee, yet his chakra was still absorbed.
Ay always starts in V1 mode anyways, which Suigetsu was able to react and defend against his attack

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-

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Kisame should be able to do the same. It's only in V2 that Kisame wouldn't be able to react, but by that time, most of Ay's chakra would be gone. He didn't even punch a clear hole threw Jugo, and even afterwards Jugo was functioning fine despite the injury. Kisame has shown to be a very durable and pain resistant character, so Ay isn't one shotting him. Also, don't forget it takes only 1 seal for Kisame to dispel Water Dome, and the entire area is engulfed in water.

 

[genii96]

First, I'd like to point out that Gaara used

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to rip of Deidaras arm, not sand burial.

Come on dude...you're punctuating it wrong to fit what you want it to say. If you look closely, it actually says "From underground I collect the strongest minerals ... with chakra, I pressurize them into dense sand around me" The dot dot dot connects the two and finishes the thought. You placed the comma to separate them, which isn't correct. So yes, he did in fact say, he collects them with chakra, which pretty much invalidates everything you just said. If you really think about it, it makes absolutely no sense to say he collects it himself, because that would mean he has to physically collect every individual mineral with his bare hands. It obviously involves chakra, otherwise it would be an impossible task.

The 4th Kazekage, who had no given supply of gold dust has to touch the ground and fuse his chakra in it, to create and use his gold dust. The same applies for Gaara.


By touching the ground, I don't necessarily mean with his hands. Chakra can be dispelled from the feet (i.g walking on water) So when I say touching the ground, I mean being in contact with it in some sort of way.

As far as Ay goes, Kisame doesn't need the reflexes to counter him. As long as chakra is visible, soon as he gets near Kisame his chakra is already being drained

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-

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Now when Ay makes direct physical contact with Kisame, a mere punch, the majority of his chakra is eaten

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-

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As you can see, Kisame didn't have the time to react to Bee, yet his chakra was still absorbed.
Ay always starts in V1 mode anyways, which Suigetsu was able to react and defend against his attack

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-

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sand coffin and sand burial(unless you mean giant sand burial?) are his signature moves,he does them the same way,had he done a sand burial,you'd say he cant do a sand coffin.however,he didnt even want to kill him.

Actually,you are the one messing the english up. Yea,i made a mistake with the comma,it was supposed to be a dot,however,the thriple dots sugnify a pause,if he used chakra to collect them,then that"with chakra",would have been in the first box, it would be pointless to pause at those 2 words,it makes more sense to finish one part of the sentence first,also if he said he collected them with chakra,then how did he pressurize them without chakra?. It would have been the same as any normal sand,yet it was his strongest defencive jutsu in part 1,which means he infused chakra through it,to make it that strong. When he initially taked about his ability to make more sand,he said it took no wffort at all,and could just make more,he never said it took chakra,yet when he made the shield of shukaku,he said he used chakra to pressurize it into dense sand,honestly that sentence shouldnt be too hard to see through,
"from underground i collect the strongest minerals...with chakra,pressurize them into dense sand around me",the 2 parts of the sentence are clearly seperated and shown,also,gaara wasnt in thought,you can see the arrows of the boxes pointing at his mouth,if you look at the lower panel,where gaara asks him of his bloodline limit,it is the same way,2 boxes,one with the triple dot,then the other box,if you look at the lower panel,can you say that gaara said a "you..." then apparently didnt pause or anything and just asked him,obviously there was a pause,the same as the above. Also you seemed to ignore my other point about his sky shield where as bolded,showed that both collecting strong mineral-rich sand and flowing chakra were done,yet he was on the air,so even if you are right about part 1 gaara,you are wrong about part 2 gaara,which is who we are discussing.sand consists of tiny grains you know?,when he attacks with them,he controls each grain in unison,so using his sand control to draw them from the ground,or even at the surface(filled with earth,loose soil etc).

Juugo made a shield,which halted A's hand,yet A went through it,and into juugo's chest with a single blow,had that shield not been there,he would have crushed his heart. Also,against suigetsu,he didnt exaclty run,he was standing,and then brought his hand down,it's not the same as his shushin punch. A has intel on kisame,thanks to bee,so he would know to go v2. A has bijuu level chakra,so just absorbing v1 wont do much,also if kisame does the dome,A can run his raiton chakra through it,electrocuting kisame. However,in v2 his fist was at minato's face with a charge,current A is faster than Ay,kisame wont be able to counter him if he shushins at him in v2.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

sand coffin and sand burial(unless you mean giant sand burial?) are his signature moves,he does them the same way,had he done a sand burial,you'd say he cant do a sand coffin.however,he didnt even want to kill him.

Actually,you are the one messing the english up. Yea,i made a mistake with the comma,it was supposed to be a dot,however,the thriple dots sugnify a pause,if he used chakra to collect them,then that"with chakra",would have been in the first box, it would be pointless to pause at those 2 words,it makes more sense to finish one part of the sentence first,also if he said he collected them with chakra,then how did he pressurize them without chakra?. It would have been the same as any normal sand,yet it was his strongest defencive jutsu in part 1,which means he infused chakra through it,to make it that strong. When he initially taked about his ability to make more sand,he said it took no wffort at all,and could just make more,he never said it took chakra,yet when he made the shield of shukaku,he said he used chakra to pressurize it into dense sand,honestly that sentence shouldnt be too hard to see through,
"from underground i collect the strongest minerals...with chakra,pressurize them into dense sand around me",the 2 parts of the sentence are clearly seperated and shown,also,gaara wasnt in thought,you can see the arrows of the boxes pointing at his mouth,if you look at the lower panel,where gaara asks him of his bloodline limit,it is the same way,2 boxes,one with the triple dot,then the other box,if you look at the lower panel,can you say that gaara said a "you..." then apparently didnt pause or anything and just asked him,obviously there was a pause,the same as the above. Also you seemed to ignore my other point about his sky shield where as bolded,showed that both collecting strong mineral-rich sand and flowing chakra were done,yet he was on the air,so even if you are right about part 1 gaara,you are wrong about part 2 gaara,which is who we are discussing.sand consists of tiny grains you know?,when he attacks with them,he controls each grain in unison,so using his sand control to draw them from the ground,or even at the surface(filled with earth,loose soil etc).

Juugo made a shield,which halted A's hand,yet A went through it,and into juugo's chest with a single blow,had that shield not been there,he would have crushed his heart. Also,against suigetsu,he didnt exaclty run,he was standing,and then brought his hand down,it's not the same as his shushin punch. A has intel on kisame,thanks to bee,so he would know to go v2. A has bijuu level chakra,so just absorbing v1 wont do much,also if kisame does the dome,A can run his raiton chakra through it,electrocuting kisame. However,in v2 his fist was at minato's face with a charge,current A is faster than Ay,kisame wont be able to counter him if he shushins at him in v2.

Sand Coffin and Sand burial are similar, but different. Sand Coffin binds and crushes the opponent on the surface, while Sand Burial buries into the ground then crushes the opponent. If sand burial is his signature move, then why hasn't he done it at all in part 2? Since he already was fighting on a sandy terrain, a giant sand burial would of taken care of the 2nd mizukage and his clam, as well has bury a few of madaras wood clones.

Dot Dot Dot is an Ellipsis.

Ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Ancient Greek: ἔλλειψις, élleipsis, "omission" or "falling short") is a series of dots that usually indicate an intentional omission of a word, sentence or whole section from the original text being quoted, and though necessary for syntactical construction, is not necessary for comprehension. Ellipses can also be used to indicate an unfinished thought or, at the end of a sentence, a trailing off into silence (aposiopesis), example: "But I thought he was . . .". The ellipsis calls for a slight pause in speech or any form of text, and can be used to suggest a tense or awkward momentary silence.

Omission:

1. Someone or something that has been left out or excluded.
2. The action of excluding or leaving out someone or something.

No where did it says, it acts as a comma, and separates things. Dot Dot Dot indicates continuation. I can literally show countless amounts of the manga with dot dot dot acting as a continuation and linking two thoughts. Whether it was punctuated correctly or not, to find the minerals and to grind them both require chakra, so it's pointless arguing about this as it makes no sense to say neither one of them doesn't require chakra, thus meaning it becomes manually done.

I ignored it because there is no proof that even indicates that the rich minerals were/weren't found on the surface of Sunagakure, thus making another pointless debate. You so heavily deny it, but sand has been blowing there since the beginning of time, why wouldn't there be any minerals on the surface. Also, Gaara didn't even know what Deidaras C3 even was until it was dropped on the village, expanded, and nearly exploded. So in that split instant, Gaara found the time to find enough of richest minerals under the ground, lift it to the surface, and turn it into a huge shield?

I'd also like to point out the amount of chakra Gaara had to muster up to create the sand tsunami out of the minerals in the ground. It didn't seem all that effortless to me.

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And my point about the 4th Kazekage having to fuse chakra into the ground to make his gold dust?

Ay didin't go threw anything. He indented the shield which also indented his chest, there was never a clear hole shown threw Jugos shield or chest. Like I said, Jugo was functioning fine afterwards as well. Doesn't matter, it was still a punch from the 2nd fastest shinobi alive, so it had to still be a fast movement attack, which suigetsu intercepted. Jugo reacted to Ay shunshin punch by forming his arm into a shield. A was serious about killing Sasuke, yet he started in V1. He even started in V1 against Madara. Fact is, A never starts in V2, why would he now. The whole A electrocuting Kisame in the water dome isn't accomplishing much. Every technique used will be significantly weaker as chakra is continuously being absorbed. All it would accomplish is temporarily numbing and paralyzing Kisame while A is without oxygen as well as his chakra being drained.

 

[genii96]

-Dude,be specific,the jutsu you are reffering to,is giant sand burial.
Sand coffin traps and suffocates,sand burial crushes on land,those are his signatures. Whereas giant sand burial buries the person and sends several shockwaves that crush the person.

-

"distinguish ellipse Ellipsis (plural ellipses; from Greek 'omission') in printing and writing refers to a mark or series of marks that usually indicate an intentional omission of a word or a phrase from the original text. An ellipsis can also be used toindicate a pause in speech, an unfinished thought or, at the end of a sentence, a trailing off into silence ( aposiopesis ).
The most common form for an ellipsis consists of a row of three full stops (..., . . . or [...]). Forms encountered less often are three asterisks (***), or one (—) or more (––) dashes.
The triple-dot punctuation mark is also called a suspension point, points of ellipsis, periods of ellipsis, or colloquially, dot-dot-dot.

-"In writing The use of ellipses can either mislead or clarify, and the reader must rely on the good intentions of the writer who uses it. An example of this ambiguity is ‘She went to… school.’ In this sentence, ‘…’ might represent the word ‘elementary’, or the word ‘no’."

-you can clearly see from the above example they gave,how the elipse used to represent ommision works,in the sentence that gaara made,there was no ommision of any word,if it acted as an ommision,then"with chakra" wouldnt be there since it would be ommited. As bolded,dot-dot-dot is used most oftently for a suspension,no word was ommited from gaara's sentence. Also as i asked you,when gaara asked kimi of his kkg,was it not the same way the first one was written?,was there any ommision?,or was it a pause?,it was definately a pause,not an ommission.

-so you apperently ignored factual information,based on the fact that you doubt gaara's ability?.
Deidara told him he was going to wipe out the village

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you can see gaara's face here as well

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so yes,he knew exactly what that bomb was about to do,and what do you think he mus have been doing before it reached the village?,ofcourse,he was prepping the sand needed,which resulted in him needing to block the explosion in a split second due to the time needed to gather that much sand that is rich in minerals and also flowing chakra through it which you also ignored. It dosent matter whether the minerals are on the surface or below,he was able to gather and collect the best mineral rich sand,flow it with chakra before the bomb reached,and them moved it to block it at the split second it exploded.

-I dont know what that scan of yours abt the sand tsunami proved,all i saw was a 13 year old doing some handseals and all of a sudden, a tidal wave of sand erupts,gaara didnt in any way pant,or suffer any side backs after that. It was after his Shukaku shield,which he had to go underground to gather the strongest minerals,pressurize them with chakra into dense sand,in order to form his strongest defence,then the prison burial where he sent kimi 200m below the ground,do you know the distance that covers?,thats a third of an average mountain length,then he showed signs of exhaustion.

-The same with deidara,he used tidal waves of sand from the ground,brought them above,and constantly attacked deidara,he was unfazed by the amount of sand he used,until he used his sky shield,where as i bolded,is made from the best mineral rich sand he could find,as well as his chakra flowing through the thing,after blocking the c3,gaara began to pant. What about against the edo kages?,did he seem even fazed by the wave?

-- the fourth kazekage does not make gold dust,he converts his chakra to magnetic forces,in other words,he turns himself into a giant magnet with a magnetic field that attracts the gold dust or any magnetic material he wants to attract,he uses jiton to attract the gold dust,he dosent fuse chakra into the ground,he turns his own chakra into a magnetic field. The only time he may infuse the ground with his chakra,is if he wants to enact a magnetic field around the ground,however,that is used for another purpose altogether.

-A didnt punch him,he brought his hand down,similar to his drop kick on sasuke,it had no real speed to it,rather it just packed force.

He made a shield here

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,you can see the distance from his chest

A's hand goes through the shield and into his chest

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this is the hole in his chest despite a cs2 shield

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,whether juugo functioned or not dosent matter,he was in cs2,naruto said if he took a single punch from v1,he'd be done for,
If A knew that kisame cud suck up his raiton armour,how else cud he get around him without v2?. Against minato,he went v2.

 

[AGoodBoy]

holy shit. I come back to this thread and people are arguing over english? Did this thread really get this derailed? XD XD XD

Oh boy... All this from the simple fact that kisame beats 4 kages mid diff.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Kisame gets owned in this one