[Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Madara didnt leave unscathed? I know it says that he barely survived the battle but what makes you think he didnt leave unscathed. I too recall when madara said he left the battle on the verge of death but who is to say he wasnt talking about prior to him using Izangi, you know when he almost died.

Wait Izangi requires both Senju and Uchiha DNA? I dont think that is true considering Uchiha have been using Izangi for a very very long time so much so that it forced the creation of Izanami in order to get people to stop relying on Izangi. if it were true then that would be hundreds of uchiha had senju DNA prior to Madara.

I think your assumptions of seconds could be premature, In one scan we see Madara on the floor with a sword in him, then Hashirama notices something, looks at it, and then the next scan we seen him kneeling down over Madara, one can only assume it was a slow kneel as he had just killed his old friend. And granted that the last time he noticed something, Madara outside his window when he was talking to Tobirama, I can assume that he observed whatever he had noticed for Atleast 5 seconds although it could be alot more. Given the fact that it probably took him 3 seconds to kneel down and perhaps a 2-3 second window prior to Madara falling for Hashirama to notice what he noticed with have a 10 second window for the sword to dissapear.

x__x

What I meant was, if Izanagi was used to reverse the physical injury that was inflicted on Madara, then he would have left unscathed, but he didn't, he was injured from the fight, hence Izanagi couldn't have been the Genjutsu that was used. And Tobi said it requires both Senju+Uchiha DNA to use, that is why Danzo was able to use it (Sharingan+Hashi Cells)

 

[FearxDeath]

What I meant was, if Izanagi was used to reverse the physical injury that was inflicted on Madara, then he would have left unscathed, but he didn't, he was injured from the fight, hence Izanagi couldn't have been the Genjutsu that was used. And Tobi said it requires both Senju+Uchiha DNA to use, that is why Danzo was able to use it (Sharingan+Hashi Cells)

Hate to be a stickler but can I get a scan where it shows tobi saying that or do you know when in the manga he says it so i can look it up? Because I know that Izanami doesnt require senju cells, and when Sasuke and Itachi was fighting Kabuto and Itachi brought up forbidden jutsu the first thing that came to sasukes mind was Izangi, which Itachi said no he was using a different forbidden jutsu.

Also explain the unscathed thing? What do you mean by that?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Hate to be a stickler but can I get a scan where it shows tobi saying that or do you know when in the manga he says it so i can look it up? Because I know that Izanami doesnt require senju cells, and when Sasuke and Itachi was fighting Kabuto and Itachi brought up forbidden jutsu the first thing that came to sasukes mind was Izangi, which Itachi said no he was using a different forbidden jutsu.

Also explain the unscathed thing? What do you mean by that?

It's here when he was explaining it to Konan:

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[Kronnic]

Dawg, everytime I log into NB, you are the first person thread I look for because you always have something wonderful.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Dawg, everytime I log into NB, you are the first person thread I look for because you always have something wonderful.

Thanks mah homie Lol

 

[Senju Bean]

There is one problem with your analysis. Madara needed EMS to stay active the whole time just to keep Susanno active; it is unlikely that he activated it then. Kishi might be pulling a trick on people, making them think that it was genjutsu. Actually, what appears the be the activation of EMS could mean that Kishi is pulling a genjustu on the audience lol. Oh what a nice parallel.

I also think that Madara casting a genjutsu is a cheap way out. It would be too boring and frankly, quite inappropriate for an author like Kishi to do that. I would be much more appropriate for Kishi to have Madara use a completely new technique. And I suspect that that technique is going to come into play later in the future. Clearly, now that Hashi is revived, Madara isn't going to stand much of a chance with the techniques that he has shown. Madara is also disconnected from the Jubii meaning that Hashi stands a very good chance of beating him. I think that whatever Madara used on Hashi to escape death is going to be his trump card. One that could completely turn the tide after a few chapters of whoop-ass by Hashi. From a story telling standpoint, it's much better this way.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Ermahherhd go Derp.

Indubitably so Lol

 

[Micho22]

Nice theory great

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Nice theory great

Thank you

 

[DaVe14]

GREAT THREAD WITH GREAT EVIDENCE BEHIND IT!! I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it actually happen like this

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

GREAT THREAD WITH GREAT EVIDENCE BEHIND IT!! I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it actually happen like this

Thanks, glad you liked it

 

[NaruSasuRival]

This theory seems correct, but it is plain fabrication. Facts is that the Madara fans do not have the ability to consider the manga as a whole. They always cling to partial facts, and build pretty arguments based of these partial facts.

First, while your evidences are similar, nothing prove that they mean the same thing. In fact, you are still ignoring that Hashirama is a earth style user, and his clone are as concrete as the real one. Whether Madara used Genjutsu or not, the final clash showed at least based on the 626 that everything he did was done on a clone.

Second, there is an evidence that Madara's wound was real. This panel is extracted from the chapter "the Dream world" when Madara explained how he obtained the Rinnegan:

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Clearly, Madara is pointing where Hashirama stabbed him. Your genjutsu argument, the disappearing of the sword, everything is wrong. Madara was fighting with Hashirama's clone. The sword is not there because either of the angle, or because Hashirama took it back. After all, defeating Madara does not mean he has to leave his sword on the battlefield.

The worst is that you think Hashirama's question about how Madara was revive is a clue. In all logic, this only mean that Hashirama was certain that he killed him, and it also mean he did not know that his cell could be used by someone else. Worst, you are forgetting that Hashirama's cell can repair damage part of the body. Check Obito for example. Even partly crushed, Hashirama's cell gave him life again.

The truth is that Madara was fodderized all his entire life by Hashirama, and this why he wants a world without loser or winner. He is fighting for the weak people who do not want to acknowledge the strong people. This is the truth about Madara.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Spoiler

This theory seems correct, but it is plain fabrication. Facts is that the Madara fans do not have the ability to consider the manga as a whole. They always cling to partial facts, and build pretty arguments based of these partial facts.

First, while your evidences are similar, nothing prove that they mean the same thing. In fact, you are still ignoring that Hashirama is a earth style user, and his clone are as concrete as the real one. Whether Madara used Genjutsu or not, the final clash showed at least based on the 626 that everything he did was done on a clone.

Second, there is an evidence that Madara's wound was real. This panel is extracted from the chapter "the Dream world" when Madara explained how he obtained the Rinnegan:

You must be registered for see images

Clearly, Madara is pointing where Hashirama stabbed him. Your genjutsu argument, the disappearing of the sword, everything is wrong. Madara was fighting with Hashirama's clone. The sword is not there because either of the angle, or because Hashirama took it back. After all, defeating Madara does not mean he has to leave his sword on the battlefield.

The worst is that you think Hashirama's question about how Madara was revive is a clue. In all logic, this only mean that Hashirama was certain that he killed him, and it also mean he did not know that his cell could be used by someone else. Worst, you are forgetting that Hashirama's cell can repair damage part of the body. Check Obito for example. Even partly crushed, Hashirama's cell gave him life again.

And who said I was arguing that his wound wasn't real? all I stated in my OP was that Genjutsu was involved in facilitating Madara's escape from death, not evading the wound he acquired. I have presented evidences, all you've presented is your personal conjectures. Your interpretation is incorrect. Your fanboyism is distracting your objectivity. Lol

 

[Professor Finesser]

Even more doubtful because:
- Reality directly turns into illusion and create another image when the Izanagi illusion gets stabbed or something, but we clearly saw Madara's body laying on the ground even after it got stabbed
- We know Madara gave his eyes to Nagato, so he couldn't have used it and lost it in that fight
- Obito said you need Senju DNA along with Uchiha's DNA to use Izanagi

Well who knows, because EMS is supposed to stop the effects of blindness maybe the effects of Izanagi are negated when you get eternal.

 

[Kronus]

why didn't madara kill him when he had an opening though? i apologize if someone already asked this sir derp.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

why didn't madara kill him when he had an opening though? i apologize if someone already asked this sir derp.

It wasn't meant to kill Hashi, it was meant for Madara to escape death

 

[Almighty Ra]

It's all a possibility we still don't know till we read it and it's stated by Madara if it was genjutsu..Don't dismiss the fact's i've provided.

As the leader of the Senju clan, Hashirama held proficiency in a wide cross-section of shinobi skills, and possessed at least an understanding of those he did not. He was well-versed in genjutsu and could perform powerful illusions such as the Bringer-of-Darkness Technique, which locked the target in perpetual darkness for the duration of the technique.[57] In the anime, he displayed aptitude in the art of fūinjutsu, using the Contract Seal to break Madara's control over Kurama.[52] Hashirama could also use Summoning: Quintuple Rashōmon, which brings out five Rashōmon that can protect him from nearly any attack.[58] He was also a sensor type, though not as good as Tobirama.[59] He also had high skill in taijutsu since childhood, with Madara noting that they were roughly equal in this area.[60] He also showed great tactical skill and deceptive abilities, waiting until Madara became so exhausted that he couldn't maintain his Sharingan to create a wood clone for Madara to strike down so he could attack from behind without his opponent even realising it.[61]

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[NaruSasuRival]

And who said I was arguing that his wound wasn't real? all I stated in my OP was that Genjutsu was involved in facilitating Madara's escape from death, not evading the wound he acquired. I have presented evidences, all you've presented is your personal conjectures. Your interpretation is incorrect. Your fanboyism is distracting your objectivity. Lol

You did place a doubt on that wound if you are the OP. Here is a part of the OP:

UPDATE 2

There's also the peculiarity of the sword that stabbed Madara.

When Madara fell to the ground, the sword was lounged in his chest:

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But after Hashirama looked upward and fell on his feet:

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The sword was glaringly missing in Madara's body:

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Which further suggests the involvement of Genjutsu.

The only explanation I can see to your argumentation is that the sword was not real in the first place. Why did you bring the presence and absence of the sword if it serve no purpose? I understand that you are trying to foster your genjutsu idea. Besides, from the many people Madara has caused to die, I cannot accept that he will use a genjutsu to fake his death rather than using it to kill Hashirama. The truth from all these is that Madara was fooled by a clone, lost his susanoo, lost his Kyuubi, and went into hiding. From Hashirama's explanation, there is no shade of genjutsu in this fight.

Clearly, you are misinterpretating Hashirama's body language. He did not plan to kill Madara, but he had no choice. Even now, he still consider him as a friend. The expression of his face is nothing but the emotions due to killing a friend. Hashirama wasn't even strong enough to check if Madara really died. He based his conclusion on the strike. He knew that anyone who got hit in that spot would die, except that he never thought his cell could also repair someone else.

Anyway, I am pretty sure Madara will give his flashback. After all, Kishi's work is mostly made in flashback. Even road to ninja was a bunch of flashback. But one thing is sure here, and it is you who is using a lot of conjecture based on inconclusive facts - as far as to interpret FX and inexpressive signs. You are not far from creating a Madara's is the strongest church.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Well who knows, because EMS is supposed to stop the effects of blindness maybe the effects of Izanagi are negated when you get eternal.

The fact that the wound was real mean there is no illusion. An illusion is when everything happens in the mind of the victims. Danzou thought he has a sharingan when he had none. Naruto thought he was fioghting Itachi when everyone around him knew he was fighting alone. This is the definition and operation of illusion. Nothing that happens is real. On the other hand, Madara saw a clone, and slash it with a great speech. Afterwards, he got stabbed and carried the wound afterwards until he implant Hashirama's cells. These are plain reality.
Madara got lucky and survived because Hashirama was emotional. This is the only plausible logical interpretation here. The following page summarize Madara's life, and show how desperate he was. He was so beaten by reality that he decided to run away from it, and spend his life in a dream:

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[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

You are not far from creating a Madara's is the strongest church.

It is you who is misinterpreting, Church? lol, I am no Madara fanboy like you are a Hashirama fanboy, thinkers are doers afterall. Lol

Oh and btw, stop double posting or I'll report you