[Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

Howdidthesenjudie · Apr 4, 2013

What about when Obito told Sasuke the story. He said Hashirama did would him. Unless he used genjustu after he got stabbed, I doubt it happened

6thpathsage · Apr 4, 2013

MilwaukeegHost said:
No not exactly Sir. The White/black zetsu combo was, but the origins of a Black Zetsu clone could have come much earlier.

The current Zetsu of both halves was created right before Madara died. But Madara obviously had the ability to make his Will into physical reality (Clone) before then. The black pole described in the manga below is infused with the Will of Madara (same as Black Zetsu) and this was being cultivated on the Mazou Plant a long time before this encounter with Obito. It shows that Madara had the ability to infuse his Will into physical shape before he ever created THAT version of Zetsu:

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Personally I think every feat post rinnegan activation for madara was plainly because he had the rinnegan and he was hooked up to mazou, if he can just create something from nothing then who needs a rinnegan.

3MESSIAH · Apr 4, 2013

my theory is the same,it`s just that you presented it well

saw2097 · Apr 4, 2013

I doubt it, you are forgetting that Hashirama and Madara have fought before, so Hashi probably has a way of detecting genjutsu and preventing it.

Hashirama is the god of all ninja and has spent a life time fighting Uchiha, if he hasn't found a way to prevent Genjutsu he would be dead already.

AlphaScythian · Apr 4, 2013

Howdidthesenjudie said:
What about when Obito told Sasuke the story. He said Hashirama did would him. Unless he used genjustu after he got stabbed, I doubt it happened

He got wounded. He used genjutsu to hide his EMS, which caused hashirama to play clone card that madara expected. Later madara diverted attack via genjutsu control and faked death.

FearxDeath · Apr 4, 2013

GOING TO TURN THIS INTO A THREAD DERP, TOOK ME A WHILE TO PUT THIS TOGETHER AND IT LEAD TO A BREAK THROUGH

Very well done theory, the moon was something that stood out to me also but not enough to see what you saw, and I didnt even notice the tropes. Very good work derp, very good.

Few something I would change:

I dont think that Madara use genjutsu/Tsykuyomi, rather I think he used Izanami for the following reasons:

As we all know kishimoto is a parrelell monster, Madara, Hashirama and Mito are more than likely parraellels of Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura. But Naruto would never killed Sasuke as it goes against his ninja way the same way Hashirama would never kill Madara. Why not knock him out or merely capture him and bring him back to the village. It just didnt sit right with me, and then out of no where he gains this resolve to kill Madara? What if At that instance Madara used Izanami, the jutsu to decides ones fate, in order to get Hashirama to realize that in order to protect the village he needs to be willing to do something drastic like killing his own best friend. And upon doing so the illusion of Izanami was finished and Hashirama break out of it.
Madara making Hashirama think he is dead serves no real purpose, he never came back to the village but rather went around plotting and setting things up for his plan. And so whether or not Hashirama thought he was dead is of no real consequence, so why even put himself in that kind of situation.
It is possible that he really was trying to attack the village and kill hashirama, but if that is the case why didnt he kill him while he was under the illusion, did he suddenly change his mind deciding that everything he had been trying to do thus far wasn't really that important and thus made hashirama think he was dead? Well then why go that far, why not just tell hashirama forgot about this and just go about his bussiness, hashirama didn't want to kill him in the first place. There is no need for the cloaks and daggers.
Maybe he did it so Hashirama wouldnt be on the look out while he sneaked into konoha? But then if he had just lied to hashirama and pretended to be a good guy hashirama would have let him come in with no suspicions.

So I have to believe that Madara fought hashirama those countless time in order to teach him that he was too weak, like when he chose to kill himself in order to bring peace rather than kill the person trying to destroy him or his brother he at the time was of no importance. Madara probably saw the larger picture, knowing that Hashirama's sentimental side would eventually cost him and thus with Izanami he was able to show hashirama the error of his ways and get him to man up, making it so that hashirama would battle him forever within izanami until he finally killed madara.

Take a look at this: