It's time to get over it, Madara is weaker than Hashirama.

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

What people don't understand is, shinsuusenju isn't a summon. That's from the ground up, like any other mokuton.

Exactly man...

 

[Draphsin]

What people don't understand is, shinsuusenju isn't a summon. That's from the ground up, like any other mokuton.

Just because madara uses a summon, doesnt mean that he's significantly weaker than hashi

It still takes chakra to do what he did with kurama

 

[6thpathsage]

I didn't credit Hashirama for that. Hashirama summoned an inanimate wood statue, to which he controlled. He obviously got this technique after he learned SM, which required training. Since SM requires training, that's exactly why Hashirama's power is more credible, fact.

I edited my post in my debate with AlphaScythian, and...
...

If that's what you mean then I guess it's down to personal opinion, I feels it's harder to control something that has a mind and its own chakra, creation is also an awesome feat but like I said down to personal opinion. It was a legendary fight so I'm happy lol

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Just because madara uses a summon, doesnt mean that he's significantly weaker than hashi

It still takes chakra to do what he did with kurama

What you don't know is, I never EVER said it's not his power, did I? What I said was, he needs the strongest Bijuu to even compete with Shodai, that's the truth.

If that's what you mean then I guess it's down to personal opinion, I feels it's harder to control something that has a mind and its own chakra, creation is also an awesome feat but like I said down to personal opinion. It was a legendary fight so I'm happy lol

Controlling something which takes chakra is an extremely small price to pay. Like I said earlier, Kurama's immense power >>>> the chakra it takes for Madara to control it.

Like I said previously, if it's so hard to control Kurama, why was Obito able to have Kurama run riot while he was calmly fighting Minato? Lmao, I saw no problems.

 

[Omnipotent]

Just because madara uses a summon, doesnt mean that he's significantly weaker than hashi

When he's using Kurama as a summon, when Naruto has been using only half of Kurama's chakra to get into the Top 5, I think you were downplaying it more than enough by saying "a summon".

No, he's not significantly weaker (I put Hashirama #1 on my Top 10 and EMS Madara #2). But there is a noticeable difference between the two.

 

[Draphsin]

What you don't know is, I never EVER said it's not his power, did I? What I said was, he needs the strongest Bijuu to even compete with Shodai, that's the truth.

Naruto needs the strongest bijuu to even stand a chance against anybody, thats the truth.

I can do that too....

 

[taladagah]

Excuses for nerfing madara, thats all I see

OK Ok, lets be fair. N by fair i mean give hashi a tailed beast to control and cover with a mokuton or his thousand hand thing. Thats fair, right?

 

[Draphsin]

When he's using Kurama as a summon, when Naruto has been using only half of Kurama's chakra to get into the Top 5, I think you were downplaying it more than enough by saying "a summon".

No, he's not significantly weaker (I put Hashirama #1 on my Top 10 and EMS Madara #2). But there is a noticeable difference between the two.

He uses it as a summon, Its not downplaying it if im calling it what it is. Either way kurama was still his pet and will remain EMS madara's pet

IMO the difference is marginal

OK Ok, lets be fair. N by fair i mean give hashi a tailed beast to control and cover with a mokuton or his thousand hand thing. Thats fair, right?

Can hashi summon a bijuu??

Can hashi control a bijuu?? (We saw from 626 that he puts them to sleep, thats how he supresses them)

Hashi cant use kurama or any other bijuu in a fight, so you're giving hashi abilities that he doesnt have. Thus making it unfair for madara

:bye:

 

[AlphaScythian]

If all the excuses .eh hm i mean trade off's u mentioned were legit, Madara mind aswell not even use kurama. I mean in the end if were some kind power levels on chakra in the NV, Kurama would be like a million to the average shinobi's 50. at any rate, that should have been a major boost not "Trade Off" Hashi is just to much for anybody.

Im not implying biju isnt beneficial, even with draw backs its still better then SM. While SM is solid boost, no drawbacks.
But then again, hashi could have 1 too, and so could madara have SM. Madara was just smarter and went for better option.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Naruto needs the strongest bijuu to even stand a chance against anybody, thats the truth.

I can do that too....

Anybody? Sage mode laughs at you, LOL.

And this has nothing to do with Naruto, lmao stay on topic will you?

 

[Draphsin]

Controlling something which takes chakra is an extremely small price to pay. Like I said earlier, Kurama's immense power >>>> the chakra it takes for Madara to control it.

LOL prove this statement??

Anybody? Sage mode laughs at you, LOL.

And this has nothing to do with Naruto, lmao stay on topic will you?

No you said that madara needs the strongest bijuu in order to compete with the strongest shinobi

By that logic naruto needs kurama to stand a chance against a lot more people than he can currently....

Point is if you say this for madara then you say this for naruto, im 100% on topic but you just cant seem to dig yourself out of this one

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

LOL prove this statement??

Prove what? The chakra it takes to control Kurama is an extremely small price to pay, as the power it presents in the fight does more than make up for it. Madara was shown to be able to fight for a whole day, without PROPERLY exhausting himself, so if the Kyuubi continuously drains his chakra, he wouldn't of lasted for that long against Hashirama. The MS is able to make any Bijuu its bitch, that's its specialty, why would it take so much chakra?

 

[taladagah]

Can hashi summon a bijuu??

Can hashi control a bijuu?? (We saw from 626 that he puts them to sleep, thats how he supresses them)

Hashi cant use kurama or any other bijuu in a fight, so you're giving hashi abilities that he doesnt have. Thus making it unfair for madara]

:bye:

My point was that hashi had summons, madara had summons. the kuubi was and extra boost to madara on top of normal circumstance. they both have jutsu key to them but the kuubi was and extra like it or not. madara had perfect susanoo just like hashi had thousand hand man. madara cheated and lost so saying hashi tricked him isnt fair when madara started with a major trick up his sleave

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

LOL prove this statement??



No you said that madara needs the strongest bijuu in order to compete with the strongest shinobi

By that logic naruto needs kurama to stand a chance against a lot more people than he can currently....

Point is if you say this for madara then you say this for naruto, im 100% on topic but you just cant seem to dig yourself out of this one

Umm, are you confused? This is what you said.

"Naruto needs the strongest bijuu to even stand a chance against anybody, thats the truth.

I can do that too...."

Notice the key word: anybody. Sage mode Naruto is more than enough to stand up to a lot of people, thus your statement was wrong. Now you're saying he needs Kurama to stand up to a lot more, contradicting your previous statement.

 

[Draphsin]

Prove what? The chakra it takes to control Kurama is an extremely small price to pay, as the power it presents in the fight does more than make up for it. Madara was shown to be able to fight for a whole day, without PROPERLY exhausting himself, so if the Kyuubi continuously drains his chakra, he wouldn't of lasted for that long against Hashirama. The MS is able to make any Bijuu its bitch, that's its specialty, why would it take so much chakra?

LOL

You have no idea of the extent of EMS' chakra reduction, but its significant. (compare sasuke v kabuto to sasuke v raikage, his stamina is reduced drastically). Madara's fight in no way proves that Kurama takes little chakra to control.

Obito was able to effectively control kurama due to senju DNA, and even then he couldnt use mokuton, proving that he was restricted from using large scale techniques...

 

[AlphaScythian]

Prove what? The chakra it takes to control Kurama is an extremely small price to pay, as the power it presents in the fight does more than make up for it. Madara was shown to be able to fight for a whole day, without PROPERLY exhausting himself, so if the Kyuubi continuously drains his chakra, he wouldn't of lasted for that long against Hashirama. The MS is able to make any Bijuu its bitch, that's its specialty, why would it take so much chakra?

That is not true. Chakra drain for control over kurama is great. U cant walk with it under genjutsu 24/7. U have limited time, just like SM has time limit, both depend on user. Also u lose ability to cast genjutsu on others as u use it all on biju.

 

[Draphsin]

Umm, are you confused? This is what you said.

"Naruto needs the strongest bijuu to even stand a chance against anybody, thats the truth.

I can do that too...."

Notice the key word: anybody. Sage mode Naruto is more than enough to stand up to a lot of people, thus your statement was wrong. Now you're saying he needs Kurama to stand up to a lot more, contradicting your previous statement.

Stop nitpicking my words and rebut my statement...You wont because you cant

You dig yourself deeper.....

 

[taladagah]

Prove what? The chakra it takes to control Kurama is an extremely small price to pay, as the power it presents in the fight does more than make up for it. Madara was shown to be able to fight for a whole day, without PROPERLY exhausting himself, so if the Kyuubi continuously drains his chakra, he wouldn't of lasted for that long against Hashirama. The MS is able to make any Bijuu its bitch, that's its specialty, why would it take so much chakra?

two thumbs ups, ali kumbiye or wutever lol

 

[Draphsin]

My point was that hashi had summons, madara had summons. the kuubi was and extra boost to madara on top of normal circumstance. they both have jutsu key to them but the kuubi was and extra like it or not. madara had perfect susanoo just like hashi had thousand hand man. madara cheated and lost so saying hashi tricked him isnt fair when madara started with a major trick up his sleave

LMFAO madara cheated???

Im done arguing with this nonsense

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

That is not true. Chakra drain for control over kurama is great. U cant walk with it under genjutsu 24/7. U have limited time, just like SM has time limit, both depend on user. Also u lose ability to cast genjutsu on others as u use it all on biju.

Do you really think Hashirama's fight with Madara took a few minute? They were most likely fighting for hours, all day even... if it took so long, you really think he would still be able to fight? By the way, Kabuto is able to use SM until he runs out of chakra now, because of Juugo's cells, he's able to absorb an unlimited amount of nature energy.

LOL

You have no idea of the extent of EMS' chakra reduction, but its significant. (compare sasuke v kabuto to sasuke v raikage, his stamina is reduced drastically). Madara's fight in no way proves that Kurama takes little chakra to control.

Obito was able to effectively control kurama due to senju DNA, and even then he couldnt use mokuton, proving that he was restricted from using large scale techniques...

You really can't prove any of that. My words come from common sense. If it takes so much chakra, you really think Madara could fight for hours on end? It's just common sense. By the way, using that Mokuton on Minato is useless, and Kishi may have just gave it to him, as we weren't aware of his past at the time of his skirmish with Minato. Senju cells has no effect on controlling Bijuu.