It's time to get over it, Madara is weaker than Hashirama.

[AlphaScythian]

So I guess Kabuto's Edo's are his power, and Shima being able to reverse summon Naruto makes her top 5/6? It makes Madara top 5, but Kurama is simply a tool at Madara's disposal. I told you now for the 3rd time, I know he's able to summon it, I know it's a part of his power when in battle, but in the literal sense, it's not actually his power.

Not quite. Orochimaru summoned hashirama but he cant control him, therefore its not a tool. Nothing suggest that kabuto could control some1 on hashi's level, namely madara.

 

[6thpathsage]

I already told you it's his power when in possession of it, but it's not literally his power. My point in the beginning is, he needs the power of the strongest Bijuu to compete with Hashi :cool:

LOL.

But dude that's like saying hashirama needs the most gigantic wood summon or w/e it is to compete with Madara's power. Give madara just as much credit for the nine tails/ps combo as you give hashirama shinsenju/wood dragon combo because at the end of the day it is both their powers.

 

[Lightbringer]

I know he can summon the damn thing.

Shinsusenjuu is an actual jutsu, and it isn't a living thing. It's pretty much Hashi's creation.

and how exactly do you know that?

 

[6thpathsage]

and how exactly do you know that?

It doesn't even matter.. Cos If I slapped someone with my hands, would it hurt less or will I put in less effort because I didn't create it. I think that guy's point is irrelevant

 

[Omnipotent]

Yeah but he can utilize that bijuu whenever he wants.

and I already explained that im talking about EMS madara, EMS madara had kurama until his death, so its his tool/power....

Using that logic, BM Naruto is Shima's tool/power seeing as she can summon BM Naruto to fight for her whenever she wants.

Just saying

 

[Draphsin]

Using that logic, BM Naruto is Shima's tool/power seeing as she can summon BM Naruto to fight for her whenever she wants.

Just saying

This is true, If shima is ever in a pinch she can summon naruto to aid her XD

 

[Omnipotent]

This is true, If shima is ever in a pinch she can summon naruto to aid her XD

I guess Shima is Top 10 then :|

 

[Lightbringer]

Using that logic, BM Naruto is Shima's tool/power seeing as she can summon BM Naruto to fight for her whenever she wants.

Just saying

so Naruto summoning shima isn't part of his arsenal?

What about jiraiya? It's part of his sage mode?

kakashi summons dogs to help him

what about kiba? he always has a dog with him and vice versa

 

[Draphsin]

I guess Shima is Top 10 then :|

If shima summoned naruto then it wouldnt be her fight anymore

 

[Omnipotent]

If shima summoned naruto then it wouldnt be her fight anymore

Wrong. You yourself agreed that BM Naruto would be considered Shima's tool/power.

Why contradict your previous post to help support your argument?

so Naruto summoning shima isn't part of his arsenal?

What about jiraiya? It's part of his sage mode?

kakashi summons dogs to help him

what about kiba? he always has a dog with him and vice versa

So Shima summoning BM Naruto is a part of her arsenal? Must be Top 10.

 

[Draphsin]

Wrong. You yourself agreed that BM Naruto would be considered Shima's tool/power.

Why contradict your previous post to help support your argument?

Kabuto summons his edos to aid him in battle

He himself doesnt take part in the battle

Thus the edos aid him, but they fight for him.

Same concept with shima, if she summoned naruto he would aid her but she wouldnt be the actual fighter, so how is that her fight?

And Madara not only fights along side kurama, but he merges his attacks with him too. He uses kurama in conjunction with his eye techniques. They were made for each other. Bijuu control is an MS ability and madara gained complete control over kurama when he made the contract, just as anybody else would have summons as their power when they make a contract.

 

[Lightbringer]

Wrong. You yourself agreed that BM Naruto would be considered Shima's tool/power.

Why contradict your previous post to help support your argument?



So Shima summoning BM Naruto is a part of her arsenal? Must be Top 10.

shima's not a shinobi though

 

[6thpathsage]

Wrong. You yourself agreed that BM Naruto would be considered Shima's tool/power.

Why contradict your previous post to help support your argument?

So Shima summoning BM Naruto is a part of her arsenal? Must be Top 10.

Sorry to but in but the diff between the two situations is that hashirama uses chakra to control his summon, same with madara and same with kabuto but in you situation shima calls someone to fight someone with no input of her own strength or strategy. Shima working as a team and madara and the rest are using their techniques...

 

[taladagah]

I already told you it's his power when in possession of it, but it's not literally his power. My point in the beginning is, he needs the power of the strongest Bijuu to compete with Hashi

LOL.

i agree bro, think some ppl need something to hold on too for there favorite character to stay on top.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

But dude that's like saying hashirama needs the most gigantic wood summon or w/e it is to compete with Madara's power. Give madara just as much credit for the nine tails/ps combo as you give hashirama shinsenju/wood dragon combo because at the end of the day it is both their powers.

I didn't credit Hashirama for that. Hashirama summoned an inanimate wood statue, to which he controlled. He obviously got this technique after he learned SM, which required training. Since SM requires training, that's exactly why Hashirama's power is more credible, fact.

I edited my post in my debate with AlphaScythian, and...

Not quite. Orochimaru summoned hashirama but he cant control him, therefore its not a tool. Nothing suggest that kabuto could control some1 on hashi's level, namely madara.

I was being bloody sarcastic man...

 

[BazzBee]

Agreed ^^ to this i knew that along time ago but some people find it hard to believe like i find it hard to believe Goku is defeatable.

 

[taladagah]

When one tames biju he has to waste chakra controlling it. He also has to waste precious concentration in fight. One must also think for biju. U make it sound like kurama willingly helps madara and does its best. Madara also had to learn to control it, madara also had to spend time to look for it. Its a trade off.
One does not simply gets biju if he has MS. Emotional trauma? Another trade off, some are not pleased with it. I never questioned if u need to train for SM. The point stand and u cant deny it. ITS EXTERNAL POWER FFS. U seize it with its own, therefore its urs.
Oh please enlighten me, what does that powerful chakra does for uchihas? Senjus got good body and sh*t load of chakra with it. Powerful chakra of SM and of bijus/kurama grant all stats/abilities enhancement. What does uchiha chakra again?
My logic isnt wrong. Madara had 2 options, get SM or get biju, he chose biju. U already paid the price with emotional trauma why bother with SM if biju is better? Same was for hashirama but he chose SM.
I dont care if madara had EMS on or not, if lost on purpose or just let his guard down. I do not question outcome of the manga.
All im saying that outcome doesn't always determine who is stronger. And in VoTE madara clearly was stronger.

Madara could have unleashed dozen TBBs in 1st second of the fight, not even one senju cell would be left. He had multiple occasions where he could have killed hashi easily. TBBs can be fired from miles away. He could have bombed that budda to oblivion from just little bigger distance from where he was. But u cant realize any of that, and all that shows that madara got the real power.

If all the excuses .eh hm i mean trade off's u mentioned were legit, Madara mind aswell not even use kurama. I mean in the end if were some kind power levels on chakra in the NV, Kurama would be like a million to the average shinobi's 50. at any rate, that should have been a major boost not "Trade Off" Hashi is just to much for anybody.

 

[lordmadarauchiha]

Hashirama is little above Madara but some people say Madara is stronger even after Madara said it himself Hashirama is stronger.A dude went as far as to neg rep me for saying Hashirama>Madara by a little

 

[Draphsin]

If all the excuses .eh hm i mean trade off's u mentioned were legit, Madara mind aswell not even use kurama. I mean in the end if were some kind power levels on chakra in the NV, Kurama would be like a million to the average shinobi's 50. at any rate, that should have been a major boost not "Trade Off" Hashi is just to much for anybody.

Excuses for nerfing madara, thats all I see

 

[Omnipotent]

What people don't understand is, shinsuusenju isn't a summon. That's from the ground up, like any other mokuton.