Proof Bansho tenin > Susanoo

[FleeOnSight]

Great thread Bogarde as always.

 

[AlphaScythian]

If what you're saying was true, how was Itachi able to stand outside of his Sussano?

Susanoo is made of chakra, and can be projected outside the user body.
Usually susanoo is void, which creates opportunity to attack user from within it.
But user has the option to fill the space with chakra aura, if not completely then just enough to surround him and attach to rest of susanoo. This will render attacks discussed above useless. For example rib cage cant be separated from user as its linked via chakra aura.

 

[Brooks]

Re: Proof Bansho tenin > Susanoo??

Tell me what would happen if Nagato used used the Same ammount of chakra a that he used to 1shot the leaf with shinra tensei and poured it into a bansho tenin?.

Saying Baku's Sucking is 10x stronger than bansho tenin when we've never even seen nagato attempted or used alot of chakra to pull something Large.

Also unlike baku's attack, Bansho tenin's pulling power is focused on one Spot, Baku's was widespread.

You're going by "what if"....the fact is neither Nagato or Pain used just a power with bansho tenin and the shinra tensei Pain used on Konoha wasn't depending on Chakra, but rather power.....Deva Path needed the other Paths power in order to use shinra tensei on a whole new level.

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I know Bansho tenin focuses on one spot, but how does it pull that someone or something when there holding back.

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^Kakashi showed that he was able to withstand the Bansho tenin with a chain for a moment.

Okay, let's say the Bansho tenin focused on the Susanoo user.....now how would Pain get the user out? he can pull them all he wants, but the fact is no Susanoo user have the strength to break their own Susanoo.

 

[Tartarus]

Not really, Sasuke managed to keep his Susanoo on him while he jumped off a pillar while fighting Danzo

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Obviously real gravity won't separate a susanoo user from its Susanoo so I don't see why Basho tenin would

 

[Omnipotent]

I agree with Bogard.
One can say that Kakashi was able to withstand it, but did Nagato really pour any chakra into Bansho Tenin when using it against him? In addition, it's manga fact that when Nagato uses the techniques himself rather than through the Six Paths of Pain, they are much more powerful.
Just one of the many reasons why Nagato is above any Uchiha excluding EMS Madara and Obito, and still above BM Naruto (Preta Path trolls).

 

[Draphsin]

I assume the point you're trying to make is that bansho tenin can separate susanoo from its user. I dont see why this wouldn't work and this certainly puts a new spectrum of things on Nagato vs EMS madara (currently 3 and 4)

 

[Lightbringer]

I agree that this is possible, but the only problem is wouldn't bansho tenin also pull the susanoo along with the user?

I also don't know if it will work on the PS since with the previous form, Madara was pulled out between the crack of the susanoo ribs

you can see in this scan that Madara is indeed pulled from the opening....

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but with PS, he is encased within the crystal on the head and there is no opening to which he can be pulled from

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[FleeOnSight]

I agree that this is possible, but the only problem is wouldn't bansho tenin also pull the susanoo along with the user?

I also don't know if it will work on the PS since with the previous form, Madara was pulled out between the crack of the susanoo ribs

you can see in this scan that Madara is indeed pulled from the opening....

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but with PS, he is encased within the crystal on the head and there is no opening to which he can be pulled from

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He's saying in the op that if BT controls the gravity around sasuke inside susanoo it can pull him not. Not just pulling sasuke and susanoo.

 

[Draphsin]

I agree that this is possible, but the only problem is wouldn't bansho tenin also pull the susanoo along with the user?

I also don't know if it will work on the PS since with the previous form, Madara was pulled out between the crack of the susanoo ribs

you can see in this scan that Madara is indeed pulled from the opening....

Spoiler

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but with PS, he is encased within the crystal on the head and there is no opening to which he can be pulled from

Spoiler

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Actually if you look closely at the first scan, you can see madara's susanoo distorting, indicating that he was pulled from within and through susanoo. If bansho tenin is focused on the user's center of gravity and not the susanoo itself, then i see no reason why he can't be pulled out of his own chakra

 

[Exaar]

Re: Proof Bansho tenin > Susanoo??

You're going by "what if"....the fact is neither Nagato or Pain used just a power with bansho tenin and the shinra tensei Pain used on Konoha wasn't depending on Chakra, but rather power.....Deva Path needed the other Paths power in order to use shinra tensei on a whole new level.

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I know Bansho tenin focuses on one spot, but how does it pull that someone or something when there holding back.

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^Kakashi showed that he was able to withstand the Bansho tenin with a chain for a moment.

Okay, let's say the Bansho tenin focused on the Susanoo user.....now how would Pain get the user out? he can pull them all he wants, but the fact is no Susanoo user have the strength to break their own Susanoo.

OF course it was dependant on chakra, Hence why the other path went out of action because he needed the chakra from the other paths since he had split his own chakra into Six parts

More chakra put into a jutsu = More power.

As of kakashi resisting bansho tenin, Does it really look like Pain/Nagato was really putting that much effort into it?. Naruto withstood a shinra tensei, Yet it did this to boss summons

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Kakashi also took a few shinra tensei's, yet one from pain broke almost everybone in Bosses body and Ko'ed the other two toads, yet kakashi tanked a few.

The strength of both Bansho tenin and shinra tensei depends on how much chakra he wants to use at that Given Time, If Pain can push it with shinra tensei, He should be able to pull it if he uses the exact same force.

If he used a Bansho tenin with the exact same level of force he used to crush the leaf he can pull something the size of a complete susanoo, It isn't even that large.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Actually if you look closely at the first scan, you can see madara's susanoo distorting, indicating that he was pulled from within and through susanoo. If bansho tenin is focused on the user's center of gravity and not the susanoo itself, then i see no reason why he can't be pulled out of his own chakra

Because chakra has a mass, and susanoo is rather big one. User is attached with chakra to susanoo and can use its force to resist the pull.

 

[Lightbringer]

Actually if you look closely at the first scan, you can see madara's susanoo distorting, indicating that he was pulled from within and through susanoo. If bansho tenin is focused on the user's center of gravity and not the susanoo itself, then i see no reason why he can't be pulled out of his own chakra

Well the black lines indicate that he was pulled from the center opening, I've circled them in red.....he wasn't pulled from the side where the ribs are....meaning if he's encased within the crystal head, he can't be pulled from it because it's a physical hardened shell....


we know that the susanoo follows the user, regardless of speed.....notice how gaara also used sand to keep the susanoo in place when he pulled Madara out

if Bansho Tennin pulled a user out of his susanoo, then I would assumed the susanoo would follow along with him because there's nothing stopping the susanoo from moving with the user like gaara's sand

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[Brooks]

Did you even read the thread correctly? Bansho tenin doesn't work like Baku's suction. Baku's suction attacks externally when Banso tenin attacks internally(it attacks the center of gravity). You only proved Susanoo resistance. Sasuke =/= Susanoo. Susanoo may be able to resist, but Sasuke himself has a center of gravity. Bansho tenin = Sasuke out of Susanoo. Comprendo?

Yes, i read the thread correctly? why would you ask such a useless question in the first place?

Out of Susanoo? lol, okay

How would the Bansho tenin pull Sasuke from his Susanoo in the first? in order to pull the user out with Bansho tenin....the front defense of the Susanoo must be open in the first place and no Susanoo user has the strength to break his Susanoo when being pulled.

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^Garra got Madara from underneath of the Susanoo where as Bansho tenin would have to pull the user in front not underneath.

 

[Retsu]

I agree, it was already confirmed that pain's power is gravity manipulation. Susanoo can't resist this or else it'd be able to resist the earth's gravity, which we all know it can't.

 

[Frikid]

As far as i remember, Gaara didn't need to Break susanoo or attack it directly to Pull Madara Out of it.

Also bansho tenin into Preta path > Your Bolded plan Or Bansho tenin and use a small shinra tensei to deflect the punch Then into Human path to say bye bye to your soul

No gaara had to break through susano and pierce its armour(only a particular area) to get hold of madara and then pull him out.

In bansho tenin, nothing is going in the susano , its just trying to pull out the guy, which is not gonna happen, as the armour of susano is very strong.

And your counter to the bolded part is invalid since this thread is strictly, bansho tenin vs susano.

 

[Draphsin]

Because chakra has a mass, and susanoo is rather big one. User is attached with chakra to susanoo and can use its force to resist the pull.

If bansho tenin is activated without any

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, it means its an extremely fast attack. If the user is

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of the attack, he cant focus his susanoo to stay encased around him. This would result in them being pulled out from within, just as gaara did with his sand.

 

[Exaar]

No gaara had to break through susano and pierce its armour(only a particular area) to get hold of madara and then pull him out.

In bansho tenin, nothing is going in the susano , its just trying to pull out the guy, which is not gonna happen, as the armour of susano is very strong.

And your counter to the bolded part is invalid since this thread is strictly, bansho tenin vs susano.

So Gaara's sand if powerful enough to bust through an incomplete susanoo?. Guess it's not such a strong defense after all if mere sand can break through it.

 

[AlphaScythian]

If bansho tenin is activated without any

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, it means its an extremely fast attack. If the user is

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of the attack, he cant focus his susanoo to stay encased around him. This would result in them being pulled out from within, just as gaara did with his sand.

Yes but u have to hold susanoo as gaara did, or else it will follow, user+susanno is heavier, and can use susanoo strength to grab onto something, just like kakashi did.

 

[Draphsin]

Well the black lines indicate that he was pulled from the center opening, I've circled them in red.....he wasn't pulled from the side where the ribs are....meaning if he's encased within the crystal head, he can't be pulled from it because it's a physical hardened shell....


we know that the susanoo follows the user, regardless of speed.....notice how gaara also used sand to keep the susanoo in place when he pulled Madara out

if Bansho Tennin pulled a user out of his susanoo, then I would assumed the susanoo would follow along with him because there's nothing stopping the susanoo from moving with the user like gaara's sand

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Ill highlight the distortion in the susanoo to give you a better picture of what im talking about

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Those waves in the picture indicate that the user can be individually pulled out from susanoo's chakra, you see those same distortions

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, when danzo pierced sasuke's susanoo. Point is if the susanoo is stationary, then the user can be pulled out if he's unaware of it.

Yes but u have to hold susanoo as gaara did, or else it will follow, user+susanno is heavier, and can use susanoo strength to grab onto something, just like kakashi did.

Gaara's sand was lightened, that's why he needed to pin down susanoo, because one measly sand grapple wasnt going to be enough. If the user's mass id being controlled, then there's no need to pin it down

 

[TheSages456]

If what you're saying was true, how was Itachi able to stand outside of his Sussano? That means things can enter and leave Sussano at will. Like I said before, Gaara proved that Sussano is a separate entity from the user. If Nagato/Pain focuses Basho Tenin on the user, then he can pull them out. Simple

gaaras used the sand under madaras feet to pull him out. you dont have any idea on how bansho tenin works. nagato is the epicenter. he acts as a magnet. he raises his hand to show the direction he wants to pull something from. he doesnt manipulate the gravitational field around someone specifically. he has never shown the ability to bansho tenin someone through an object. susano is in front of the user. susano will be affected, not the person behind it.