Sasuke DOES NOT HAVE TSUKUYOMI!! ABSOLUTE PROOF!! HUGE MISCONCEPTION!

[Orochimaruofthesound]

You couldn't prove me wrong and resorted to flaming me in the end, I'm sorry but it is useless to have an honest and fruitful debate with your kind. I am unregrettably blocking you. Have a good life.

Ive already proved you wrong

 

[Kages]

Nah, The two powers are Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.

 

[The God of Wind]

Nah, The two powers are Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.

Been refuted by the manga through Sasuke and his powers friend.

 

[Super7]

Just a thought - he isn't holding his right eye he's holding his left while using the right to put cee under genjustu! He puts Danzo into a genjustu while fighting him and it doesn't strain his eyes nor does he close either of them, he has both eyes open!

 

[KingHashirama]

Databook says otherwise. Hes already shown using genjutsu with his right eye.... before kagatsuchi even was introduced.. so no sir.

 

[Strict]

Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi, due to him not being able to perfectly control the space and time within his Genjutsu, rather not at all, just as Itachi can not control Amaterasus shape. Both of them perfected one of those Mangekyō techniques, but there is no reason to believe that Sasuke couldn't master Tsukuyomi as well. Itachis high level of Mangekyō Sharingan may be attributed by the Uchihas ruins he visited on the purpose of learning Uchiha techniques. That may also be the reason for him to be in the possession of the Totsuka sword and Yata mirror.

 

[The God of Wind]

Just a thought - he may be covering his right eye while using the left eye to put cee under genjustu! He puts Danzo into a genjustu while fighting him and it doesn't strain his eyes nor does he close either of them, he has both eyes open!

He was already done with the Genjutsu and Cee had already been incapacitated by that time.

@bold, that's precisely why it wasn't Tsukuyomi. The user of that jutsu always feels it's side effects in one eye. It was nothing more than a regular Visual Genjutsu cast from his MS eyes like I have shown in the first two images.

 

[The God of Wind]

Databook says otherwise. Hes already shown using genjutsu with his right eye.... before kagatsuchi even was introduced.. so no sir.

You must be registered for see images

And then he used one from his LEFT eye that caused the same type of strain as before. So are they both Tsukuyomi? NO! Neither of those Genjutsu were Tsukuyomi.

 

[Penguin]

I agree partially. Good theory I guessssssss.

 

[htmwall]

i agree with the OP.sasuke has amaterasu in his left eye,enton the ability to manipulate it in his right eye.and susanoo for both eyes.
his genjutsu is merely amplified by awakening MS,you know the lame thing that tobirama said about how uchihas gets powerful thorugh the power of hate/love thingy,that's how MS works.
so please stop denying facts,and going by a data book aging i don't know how much,that was describing itachi's and only itachi's MS abilities.

 

[Zee Seh]

well i already knew that but i hope u convinced most of the people here...

 

[thegame]

Hello. Your points are undeniable, however, if you truly want a good discussion about this, we can do that. The thread in general seems quite "disturbing". Like if you are angry or something. It is nowhere near as obvious as you state it.

I could find all the evidence in the manga, however, I did this exact discussion so many times, that I basically remembers it all. So lets start:

Sasuke vs Bee

This battle is crucial in understanding Sasuke's eye abilities. The main importance of this fight, is that Sasuke already knew, how to use his MS abilities. Clearly Sasuke used a genjutsu on Bee with MS, which made him hold his hand to his right eye. This evidence is undeniable.

Of course, your point is just as valid, since how can he have 3 MS abilities (excluding Susanoo)? Well there is a simple answer, which I have pointed out hundreds of times..

See again the Sasuke vs Bee fight is crucial. Sasuke didn't want to use Amaterasu vs Bee¨, because he didn't know, how to control it. He had already tested it early. There is a thought from Suigetsu, when Sasuke uses Amaterasu the first time, where he mentions that Sasuke talked about these flames, which proves Sasuke must have tested his MS abilities beforehand. Not gonna find it though, but it's there I guarantee.

So he was still unaware about how he could control amaterasu, which is why he didn't use it. since the jutsu is a huge danger to his team mates as well. In the end Bee forced him to use amaterasu, and the consequence was that Karin was hit by it. If you re-read the chapter, you will see that suigetsu wants them to leave, and you will see that sasuke goes through his memories of the battle, where karin saved his life a few times. This makes his feelings go crazy, and he suddenly have some kind of realization.

So whether this an awakening of a 3rd MS power (since there is nowhere said you can't have more than 2, just saying), or if it's simple the same power, is impossible to tell. My own theory is that it's the same power. Yes tsukuyomi has a different name from Blaze release, however, it is possible to see a clear coherence between the 2. Both manipulates shape and time of a jutsu.

Whether, it manipulates a ninjutsu or a genjutsu is irrelevant. If the actual MS ability itself is the power to manipulate either, it would justify everything. The main point in my evidence for this, is the fact that Tsukuyomi is listed as a ninjutsu in the databook. This alone justifies my theory, since if it was a genjutsu alone, it would not seem possible that it could manipulate physical objects like a Amaterasu.

Anyway I wrote way too much, and I don't really care. Also much of your arguments in the actual thread are poor. You refer to a situation, where Sasuke uses a normal genjutsu with 3 tomoe sharingan (NOT MANGEKYOU), and uses it as evidence against it? :S Anyway, always nice to bring this back to the surface

 

[Orochimaruofthesound]

Kagestuchi is nature manipulation its kekkei genkei like all advanced chakra natures

 

[The God of Wind]

Hello. Your points are undeniable, however, if you truly want a good discussion about this, we can do that. The thread in general seems quite "disturbing". Like if you are angry or something. It is nowhere near as obvious as you state it.

I could find all the evidence in the manga, however, I did this exact discussion so many times, that I basically remembers it all. So lets start:

Sasuke vs Bee

This battle is crucial in understanding Sasuke's eye abilities. The main importance of this fight, is that Sasuke already knew, how to use his MS abilities. Clearly Sasuke used a genjutsu on Bee with MS, which made him hold his hand to his right eye. This evidence is undeniable.

Of course, your point is just as valid, since how can he have 3 MS abilities (excluding Susanoo)? Well there is a simple answer, which I have pointed out hundreds of times..

See again the Sasuke vs Bee fight is crucial. Sasuke didn't want to use Amaterasu vs Bee¨, because he didn't know, how to control it. He had already tested it early. There is a thought from Suigetsu, when Sasuke uses Amaterasu the first time, where he mentions that Sasuke talked about these flames, which proves Sasuke must have tested his MS abilities beforehand. Not gonna find it though, but it's there I guarantee.

So he was still unaware about how he could control amaterasu, which is why he didn't use it. since the jutsu is a huge danger to his team mates as well. In the end Bee forced him to use amaterasu, and the consequence was that Karin was hit by it. If you re-read the chapter, you will see that suigetsu wants them to leave, and you will see that sasuke goes through his memories of the battle, where karin saved his life a few times. This makes his feelings go crazy, and he suddenly have some kind of realization.

So whether this an awakening of a 3rd MS power (since there is nowhere said you can't have more than 2, just saying), or if it's simple the same power, is impossible to tell. My own theory is that it's the same power. Yes tsukuyomi has a different name from Blaze release, however, it is possible to see a clear coherence between the 2. Both manipulates shape and time of a jutsu.

Whether, it manipulates a ninjutsu or a genjutsu is irrelevant. If the actual MS ability itself is the power to manipulate either, it would justify everything. The main point in my evidence for this, is the fact that Tsukuyomi is listed as a ninjutsu in the databook. This alone justifies my theory, since if it was a genjutsu alone, it would not seem possible that it could manipulate physical objects like a Amaterasu.

Anyway I wrote way too much, and I don't really care. Also much of your arguments in the actual thread are poor. You refer to a situation, where Sasuke uses a normal genjutsu with 3 tomoe sharingan (NOT MANGEKYOU), and uses it as evidence against it? :S Anyway, always nice to bring this back to the surface

There is no arguing against this fact. The manga has explicitly stated Susanoo's requirements and Sasuke's powers from his own mouth and others'(Cee).

And lol @ bold. Is that why his Susanoo shows up inside the Genjutsu?

Ever since Sasuke awakened the Mangekyou, every Visual Genjutsu that he has used was amplified by his MS whether the MS pattern was showing or not.

 

[Orochimaruofthesound]

kagetsuchi is not even listed as a jutsu btw blaze release kagetsuchi

his listed justus are
Amaterasu
Binding Snake Glare Spell
Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi
Blaze Release: Yasaka Magatama (Manga only)
Body Flame Technique
Chidori
Chidori Current
Chidori Senbon
Chidori Sharp Spear
Cursed Seal of Heaven
Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes Technique
Evil Releasing Method (Manga only)
Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Genjutsu: Sharingan
Hidden Shadow Snake Hands
Kirin
Lion Combo
Manipulated Shuriken Technique
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Naka Shrine Pass Technique (Manga only)
Orochimaru-Style Body Replacement Technique
Pachinko Technique (Anime only)
Peregrine Falcon Drop (Anime only)
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Shield of Black Flames
Strong Fist
Summoning Technique (Hawks, Snakes)
Summoning: Lightning Flash Blade Creation
Susanoo
Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana
Tsukuyomi
Water Release: Water Gun
Yasaka Magatama

the fact he 2 blaze release says its chakra manipulation

 

[htmwall]

kagetsuchi is not even listed as a jutsu btw blaze release kagetsuchi

his listed justus are
Amaterasu
Binding Snake Glare Spell
Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi
Blaze Release: Yasaka Magatama (Manga only)
Body Flame Technique
Chidori
Chidori Current
Chidori Senbon
Chidori Sharp Spear
Cursed Seal of Heaven
Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes Technique
Evil Releasing Method (Manga only)
Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Genjutsu: Sharingan
Hidden Shadow Snake Hands
Kirin
Lion Combo
Manipulated Shuriken Technique
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Naka Shrine Pass Technique (Manga only)
Orochimaru-Style Body Replacement Technique
Pachinko Technique (Anime only)
Peregrine Falcon Drop (Anime only)
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Shield of Black Flames
Strong Fist
Summoning Technique (Hawks, Snakes)
Summoning: Lightning Flash Blade Creation
Susanoo
Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana
Tsukuyomi
Water Release: Water Gun
Yasaka Magatama

the fact he 2 blaze release says its chakra manipulation

blaze release is the ability to control the black flames and shape it in any form he wants,it's sasuke's right eye ability.

 

[thegame]

There is no arguing against this fact. The manga has explicitly stated Susanoo's requirements and Sasuke's powers from his own mouth and others'(Cee).

And lol @ bold. Is that why his Susanoo shows up inside the Genjutsu?

Ever since Sasuke awakened the Mangekyou, every Visual Genjutsu that he has used was amplified by his MS whether the MS pattern was showing or not.

Yes manga says it, but as I just stated above, the 2 are the same, so whichever Sasuke calls it, tsukuyomi or blaze release, the overall principle behind the jutsu is the same. But you can't call a "principle" something. It's not like the principle behind rasengan (rotation+spin) are affiliated with the jutsu's name. There is a vast difference between a jutsu and the mechanisms used for creating/manipulating the jutsu. Basically the MS just gives the mechanism for a jutsu, and there is no limit for the amount of jutsus, one mechanism can be used for.

What are you talking about now? Susanoo inside his genjutsu, I don't get it?

Nothing suggests that MS amplifies normal genjutsu, that is just an assumption.

Sasuke CAN use tsukuyomi... This is undeniable.

It is this obvious:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

and

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

both times Itachi uses Tsukuyomi, notice the similarity, to when Sasuke uses it on Bee:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And of course note that Sasuke holds his hand to his eye afterwards, as usually, when using jutsu with his MS.

Can't believe people still discuss this... And if you compare it to other unique (and extremely strong) genjutsu, used by Uchiha clans men, they look very different:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The unique darkness everywhere around a person caught in Tsukuyomi, is the best proof you get

 

[Orochimaruofthesound]

blaze release is the ability to control the black flames and shape it in any form he wants,it's sasuke's right eye ability.

Which that kagetsuchi was not what unlocked susanoo. its birth through the kekkei gekkei blaze release

 

[The God of Wind]

Yes manga says it

Exactly my point. And never has the manga ever said anything about Susanoo having specific requirements(Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi) OR Sasuke having Tsukuyomi.

Danzo was simply implying that Sasuke's "MS Genjutsu" was weaker than "Itachi's Tsukuyomi", but people will get the wrong idea 99% of the time.

By the way, if an MS user does not have the ability to manipulate the Time and Space within his Visual Genjutsu, he does not have Tsukuyomi!

Tsukuyomi is the manipulation of Time and Space within a Genjutsu.

Itachi can put out the flames of Amaterasu, does that mean he has Kagutsuchi? NO!

Only the full Shape Manipulation of Amaterasu can be classified as the technique known as Kagutsuchi.

Get my drift?

 

[Orochimaruofthesound]

Exactly my point. And never has the manga ever said anything about Susanoo having specific requirements(Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi) OR Sasuke having Tsukuyomi.

Danzo was simply implying that Sasuke's "MS Genjutsu" was weaker than "Itachi's Tsukuyomi", but people will get the wrong idea 99% of the time.

By the way, if an MS user does not have the ability to manipulate the Time and Space within his Visual Genjutsu, he does not have Tsukuyomi!

Tsukuyomi is the manipulation of Time and Space within a Genjutsu.

Itachi can put out the flames of Amaterasu, does that mean he has Kagutsuchi? NO!

Only the full Shape Manipulation of Amaterasu can be classified as the technique known as Kagutsuchi.

Get my drift?

its called blaze release kagetsuchi blaze release ok You have no argument Kagetsuchi is born of the kekkei genkei blaze release.
Its not a ms technique. Blaze release came to because he achieved ms and amaterasu but its not ms jutsu it is an extra effect. now he does have tsukuyomi but he cant use to the extent of itachi